The Instigator
brontoraptor
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
SM29
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Barack Obama is trying to copycat the Antichrist/Mahdi

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 392 times Debate No: 94272
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

brontoraptor

Pro

Barack Obama, the current U.S. President, is trying to copycat the Antichrist of the Christian Bible and Mahdi (Islamic Messiah)of Islam.
SM29

Con

I accept the debate. Sine the debate premise gives Pro the burden of proof I await Pro's affirmative argument in Round 2.
Debate Round No. 1
brontoraptor

Pro

Obama is imulating the ideological construct of the Antichrist/Mahdi mentioned in Christianity and Islam.

ISLAM-

Al-Mahdi-
In Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will rule for five, seven, nine, or nineteen years before the Day of Judgment (yawm al-qiyamah / literally, the Day of Resurrection) and will "rid the world of evil."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

According to Islamic tradition, the Mahdi's tenure will coincide with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

The Mahdi will "break the cross".

The Mahdi's sign is "the sun setting over the West". This is what Obama's symbol is.

--

In Christian eschatologies, Jesus, the Christ or Messiah, will appear in his Second Coming to Earth to face the Antichrist, who will be the greatest false messiah in Christianity. Just as Christ is the savior and the ideal model for humanity, his opponent will be a single figure of concentrated evil.

The Antichrist "has a form of godliness, but gets his power from a 'god of war'".

The Antichrist gets this power from an "antichrist prophet". Muhammed, the great prophet of Islam", rejected Christ as the 'Son of God'" antichrist by Biblical definition.

--

Obama bombed Libya and was behind the Egyptian takeover, and also put Jordan under heavy sanctions, as is the triune area Antichrist goes after in the Christian Bible.

So, he went after the nations antichrist goes after in the Bible and used the symbol of the Islamic Mahdi as his symbol.

*

And...the followers of Antichrist and the Mahdi behead Christians. This is literally true as ISIS beheads Christians in mass and genocides Christians in the Middle East.

*

The Antichrist destroys by peace. Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. (And used "peace" to pull out of Iraq.)

Then ISIS manifested, the European Immigration crisis occured as per Obama's plea to Europe to take in asylum seekers and refugees.

*

The Antichrist Gets power from a "foreign god of war". Obama pets Islam every chance he gets.

*

Iranian prophecies have been grafted onto Obama as a messiah to the Muslim world. "According to a Hadith that describes a "Promised Warrior" a tall black man will assume power in the West and herald the fall of the West and the victory of Islam to conquer the world, and Hussein is in his name.

https://swordattheready.wordpress.com...

In college, Barack was known as Barry Soerto according to classmates. At some point he changed his name to his birth father's name, including Hussein in the name. His father was an anticolonialist.

http://www.newsweek.com...

*

Obama's logo matches the symbol of the Islamic messiah. (Mahdi)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

*

Here is a link showing the characteristics of the Antichrist and the Mahdi. Obama is purposefully trying to imulate this person.

http://www.answering-islam.org...

*

So...he is almost out of office....but doesn't think he is finished...

Obama is bidding to become Secretary General of the U.N.

http://www.breitbart.com...
SM29

Con

Let me start with a basic logic point. The Mahdi is supposed to be aided by Jesus Christ during his rule:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org... (can't protest this reference, you used the same one)

The Antichrist is supposed the archenemy of Jesus Christ:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The Mahdi cannot be the Antichrist and be on the side of Jesus Christ at the same time, therefore Barack Obama cannot be both. They're mutually exclusive.

Let's move on to some other points you made:

1. "The Mahdi's sign is "the sun setting over the West". This is what Obama's symbol is." Or it's the sun rising over the West. Or the sun rising over a red-and-white picnic blanket. Or simply a creative play on the American flag's colors and the first letter of Obama's last name. I could go on and on here.

2. "The Antichrist gets this power from an "antichrist prophet". Muhammed, the great prophet of Islam", rejected Christ as the 'Son of God'" antichrist by Biblical definition." So what? There have been plenty of religious figures who reject Christ. Muhammad has been dead since 632 AD:

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Granted, Christian eschatology (specifically Revelation 13) at least hint at the Antichrist being a resurrected individual, but there is no evidence to suggest the False Prophet will be a resurrected individual. Since the False Prophet and the Antichrist are both supposed to be on earth during the end times, Muhammad cannot be the False Prophet of Revelation.

3. "Obama bombed Libya and was behind the Egyptian takeover, and also put Jordan under heavy sanctions, as is the triune area Antichrist goes after in the Christian Bible." Please cite your biblical reference for this claim. Where exactly does it say that the Antichrist will go after Egypt, Jordan, and Libya? Keep in mind that I'll be subjecting your reference to the scrutiny of "has anyone gone after a similar land area as the one cited since the Book of Revelation was written" so I'd stay away from vague references.

4. "The Antichrist destroys by peace. Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize." So did Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat. This point is ridiculous.

5, "Then ISIS manifested, the European Immigration crisis occured as per Obama's plea to Europe to take in asylum seekers and refugees." You won't get any argument from me that Obama's immigration policies are a disaster waiting to happen. However, to make your point, you need to tie Obama's idiotic immigration policies to some kind of reference to Antichrist or Madhi references. That hasn't happened.

6. "The Antichrist Gets power from a "foreign god of war". Obama pets Islam every chance he gets." No argument that Obama is overly apologetic towards Islam. But you're making a leap from an obsession with political correctness to the most evil being to ever walk the earth. Cite your source.

7. "In college, Barack was known as Barry Soerto according to classmates. At some point he changed his name to his birth father's name, including Hussein in the name. His father was an anticolonialist." Hussein (or it's derivatives) is one of the most common surnames of Arabic origin with many millions of people using it.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

8. "Obama is bidding to become Secretary General of the U.N." So what? How does being Secretary General of the UN mean he's the Antichrist? Fair warning; if you cite Left Behind the word "fictional" is going to come up in my reply.

Now let's look at who the Antichrist really is:

1. The Antichrist is to arise from those who destroyed the Temple of God, which would be the Romans in 70 AD:

https://www.raptureready.com...

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

https://www.whitehouse.gov...

While it is always very difficult to prove a negative, I think it's safe to say the Roman Empire never included Hawaii.

2. He is to perform miracles, according to Revelation 13:13. Barack Obama has never performed a miracle and has never claimed to have any kind of supernatural power.

3. The Antichrist is to suffer a "fatal wound" according to Revelation 13:3 and recover from it. Barack Obama has never suffered a "fatal wound", nor has he ever claimed to.

4. 2 Thessalonians states that the Antichrist will claim to be God. Barack Obama has never claimed to be God (or any kind of supernatural being for that matter).

You've staked out a somewhat interesting collection of conjecture and vague prophecy trying to prove Obama is the actual spawn of the Devil rather than just a left-wing radical and bad President. But it just doesn't come anywhere close to even a preponderance of the evidence standard. There was just as much evidence (if not more) that suggested the world was going to end on 12/21/2012.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Obviously, that didn't happen.
Debate Round No. 2
brontoraptor

Pro

Con:
"Let me start with a basic logic point. The Mahdi is supposed to be aided by Jesus Christ during his rule:"


In Islamic theology and aschatology. In Christianity this "Jesus" does not exist at all. It doesn't matter because Obama is trying to imulate their qualities, and Obama grew up in Islam, not Christianity, thus he is trying to imulate the Mahdi. Muslims do not see Jesus as the Christ but a secondary firgure. It would be meaningless to Obama.


*


In this debate I prove that Obama is a Muslim practicing taqiya.




*


"The Antichrist is supposed the archenemy of Jesus Christ:"


Exactly. Obama expects to oppose the one Christians think is Jesus. In Islam the Mahdi stands against the one Christians believe is the actual Jesus. The Muslims call the one claiming to be the "King of Kings" the dajaal, one to be opposed.


To simplify, Christians believe the Antichrist will stand against the Christian "Jesus". The Muslims believe the Mahdi stands with the Islamic Jesus.


By this standard, seeing Obama was raised in Islam, he believes he will oppose the dajaal(The Christian Jesus), which would be the Antichrist to Christians. And he believes he(The Mahdi) will stand against the "Christian Jesus". Either way, he believes he will stand against the Christian Jesus in the end days. The Islamic dajaal goes by the title "King of Kings", the title of the Christian Jesus.


(The dajaal link)




*


Con:
"So what? There have been plenty of religious figures who reject Christ."


Not that had their followers bow to an image who are commanded and do execute Christians by beheading. The followers of Antichrist in Revelation bow to an image, behead Christians, and renounce Jesus Christ.


*


Con:
"Since the False Prophet and the Antichrist are both supposed to be on earth during the end times"


There is nothing in the Bible that says the false prophet "comes in the end times as comparative to the Antichrist", only that he gives power and authority to the Antichrist. Muhammed gives authority to the Mahdi per the Quran.


*


Con:
"Where exactly does it say that the Antichrist will go after Egypt, Jordan, and Libya?"


Daniel 11:43


*


Con:
"The Antichrist destroys by peace. Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize." So did Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat."


They never went after North Africa in aggression, cause an Islamic invasion of Europe, or be declared as some type of "world savior". Obama did.


*


Con:
"However, to make your point, you need to tie Obama's idiotic immigration policies to some kind of reference to Antichrist or Madhi references.


Rev 6:2
"I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest."




*


Article headline-
-"Muslim Brotherhood 'using migrants as invasion force' to seize control of Europe, Czech president claims."




*


Con:
"So what? How does being Secretary General of the UN mean he's the Antichrist? "


The Antichrist attempts to rule the world.


*


Con:
"The Antichrist is to arise from those who destroyed the Temple of God, which would be the Romans in 70 AD:"


This is a 2 way answer.


1)All whites on Earth are descendents of the Roman Empire. Obama's mother is white.


2)Much of the Muslim world was a part of the former Roman Empire. Example: Turkey was at one time the capital of the Roman Empire.


*


Con:
"Barack Obama was born in Hawaii."


This has nothing to do with his family tree. He is not a "native Hawaiin" by ethnicity. He is North African(his father) and Anglo Saxon(his mother).


*


Con:
"He is to perform miracles, according to Revelation 13:13."


Technically the "miracle" is "bringing fire from the sky", which to anyone in the first century world would be a miracle.


Obama certainly reigned down fire on Libya amongst many other places.


Also, the same reference to "fire from the sky" is used by Elam to destroy Mystery Babylon with fire.




*


Con:
"The Antichrist is to suffer a "fatal wound" according to Revelation 13:3 and recover from it. Barack Obama has never suffered a "fatal wound", nor has he ever claimed to."


1)I am not claiming that Obama IS the Antichrist/Mahdi, but that he at least believes he is and is trying to copycat the concept.


2)He isn't done yet, and if he heads the U.N. he is far from done.

3)Define "headwound". Being forced out by the end of an 8 year term could be the assumed "wound". Entering the UN could be the resurgence.
*
In Revelation 17:16, the "Beast" hates the harlot. The harlot is literally a city that Elam "destroys with fire". Ancient Elam is modern day Iran.

In this part of prophecy the "harlot" rides on the back of the Antichrist(The "beast). In Isaiah and Revelation the terms "end of days" and "Babylon is fallen is fallen!" This passage in Isaiah identifies the "burden against Arabia and the city's fall "at the Red Sea". This city is destroyed by Iran.

In the 9/11 Commision it was confirmed that Saudi Arabia was behind 9/11. Saudi Arabia was protected for decades by the U.S. military, but suddenly the U.S./Saudi relationship is in doubt and their bitter apocalyptic enemy, Iran, has had $150 billion in sanctions lifted by Obama, and the potential for Iran to attack the Saudis minus the U.S. to defend it is high. The Iranian Shiites literally believe they can usher in the Mahdi by attacking the Saudis by all out war.
Here is a sermon by Imran Hosein, Islamic cleric-

"Goodby to Bad Rubbish"

(Video)
http://youtu.be...

In this sermon he tells us how Iran plans to destroy Saudi Arabia per Shiite apocalyptic tradition.


*


Matthew 24:24
"For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."


*


Obama King of the World"
SM29

Con

OK first of all, Obama is not a Muslim. He was sworn into office on the Bible. Not only the Bible, but his own personal Bible:

http://www.politifact.com...

He was not "raised in Islam". In fact he wasn't raised in much of a religious household at all. His own autobiography states that his mother (who raised him since Dad was absent) was far more interested in bringing him up with liberal politics than any religion.

http://www.ontheissues.org...

-As to my point that there have been plenty of religious leaders who reject Christ, you stated the following:

"Not that had their followers bow to an image who are commanded and do execute Christians by beheading. The followers of Antichrist in Revelation bow to an image, behead Christians, and renounce Jesus Christ. "

Forcing others to bow to an image, behead Christians, and renounce Jesus Christ was the basic methodology for every Roman leader for the first couple hundred years of the Christian religion. OK, not all were beheaded. Many were fed alive to lions. When it came to persecuting Christians, Muhammad wasn't fit to clean Nero's sword (or his fiddle for that matter).

https://en.wikipedia.org...

-Let's move on to your claim that Obama's foreign policy somehow indicates he's the antichrist courtesy of Daniel 11:43. Here's the actual text:

"But he will gain control over the hidden treasures of gold and silver and over all the precious things of Egypt; and Libyans and Ethiopians will follow at his heels."

1. Obama has gained no control over "hidden treasures of gold and silver". If anything, since the government has abandoned the gold standard and Obama is racking up debt (and thereby devaluing the dollar) he's losing gold, not discovering hidden treasure troves of it.

2. The Libyans are definitely not "following at his heels". If anything they hate him.

3. How exactly does Ethiopia pertain to Obama? He's had virtually no high-profile foreign policy regarding that country.

So Daniel 11:43 doesn't apply here.

-"They never went after North Africa in aggression, cause an Islamic invasion of Europe, or be declared as some type of "world savior". Obama did"

1. No, they were just accused of war crimes and shady financial dealings

2. This is far from the first time the Islamic world has attempted to invade Europe.

3. No one is declaring Obama a "world savior". That includes Obama.

-"I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest."

This is just ridiculous. Show me a picture of Obama on a white horse, wearing a crown and holding a bow. Unless of course it's not meant to be taken literally, in which case it could apply to any number of people. Richard the Lionheart would probably be a better fit since he actually HAD a white horse, crown, and bow.

Also Obama's foreign policy has been to avoid fights. He's retreating, not conquering anybody.

-"The Antichrist attempts to rule the world." You made this point in regard to my pointing out that even IF Obama became the Secretary General of the UN it doesn't mean he's the Antichrist. The SG/UN's powers are fairly limited. Just ask Ban-Ki Moon. You've been reading the Left Behind books too much.

A couple more points you made:

"All whites on Earth are descendents of the Roman Empire. Obama's mother is white. " First of all, not all whites are descendants of the Roman Empire. The Romans never conquered Russia, Scandinavia, or most of Britain. People (white people) from all three eventually ended up in America.

And even if your statement were true, it would mean that anyone with a Caucasian ancestor would have as much claim on being the Antichrist as Obama. So this point is moot (not to mention wrong).

The problem with your argument is that you need to show intent by Obama to establish himself as both the Antichrist and the Madhi when in reality his ineptitude and massive failures are a result of his left-wing extremist political ideologies. He's certainly a bad President (possibly the worst in our nation's history) but everything he does can be much more logically traced to the fact that he's a left-wing radical intent on establishing government control over every aspect of our lives. He's far from the first totalitarian dictator the world has known, and as bad as he is there have been far worse in the last two millennia. Everything you've established to further your point that he's somehow trying to be a religious figure could be equally applied to many other historical figures (Hitler knew a thing or two about religious oppression and invading North Africa, for example).

On a side note, I'm not usually a grammar or spelling stickler, but it's spelled "emulate" not "imulate".
Debate Round No. 3
brontoraptor

Pro

Con:
"He was sworn into office on the Bible. Not only the Bible, but his own personal Bible:"


Taqiyya- Yarden Mariuma writes: "Taqiyya is an Islamic juridical term whose shifting meaning relates to when a Muslim is allowed, under Sharia law, to lie."


-deception; the islamic word for concealing or disguising one’s beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies.






We also know Obama attended an anticolonialist, black nationalist church under Jeremiah Wright where they say things like "God dam* America!", "America is evil", etc.


Excerpt from a Wright sermon:
-"God dam* America, for treating our citizens as less than human. God dam* America, as she tries to act like she is God, and that she is supreme."




In speaking about Barack and Michelle Obama, Wright said, “Church is not their thing. It never was their thing.”


cnsnews.com/news/article/rev-wright-obamas-church-not-their-thing


Meaning, Obama didn't go to church, but on the rare occassion he decided to go, it was to a church who preached the downfall of America. He wasn't practicing Christianity, but going for the novelty of hearing anticolonialist rhetoric from Wright as he trashed our nation.


*


It's comman knowledge that Presidents play safe politics in their first term, then shed their spots going into their second term because they have no one left to deceive or anything to lose.


When he was sworn in the second time, he used no Bible.






*


Con:
"He was not "raised in Islam". In fact he wasn't raised in much of a religious household at all."


Exactly. Obama is a full blown Grandiose that literally thinks that he is God.




Obama has been in God-mode since entering his second term. Notice his behavior drastically changed in his second term. From a plethera of executive orders side stepping Congress, to trying to get the West and Muslims intermixed into "oneness", to ousting rulers in the Middle East, to doing massive demonstrations of military force off the coast of N. Korea.


*


And the big proof? He, who is "not really religious" believes himself the moral authority on Earth.


The Biblical Antichrist will be religiously inconsistant.


1)Honoring a foreign god.


2)Speaking against the actual God


3)Actually being a grandiose delusionist who thinks of himself as God.


Daniel 11:36
He shall speak against God.


He did.


(Video)




Daniel 11:37
He really serves no god.


(Videos)






Daniel 11:39
He shall deal with a different god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory.


Daniel 11:38
"But instead he will honor a god of war."


He pets Islam every chance he gets.


In his speech in Cairo, Egypt, Obama told us good thing, after good thing about Islam, even repeatedly quoting the Quran from memory.


(Video)




In a speech given in Turkey, Obama said, "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation."


(Video)


Obama's stage at the Democratic Nominating Convention was the Pergamum Seat of Satan.


(Video)




Jesus Christ speaks to Pergamum-


"I know where you live, where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city, where Satan lives."
-Rev 2:13


The literal "seat of Satan" is in Berlin Germany, brought by Adolph Hitler himself. It inspired Adolph Hitler! And Obama designed his stage after it.


(Video)




"I will make he who is of the synagogue of Satan, who claims to be Jew though is not, but is a liar, bow before your feet to know that I have loved you."
-Rev 3:9


Here he says he is a Jew. So what is he really?


(Video)




Here he demonstrates that he carries a Hindu god and a Budah in his pocket.


(Video)




Here Obama compares himself as though the story of Jesus Christ is actually about him.


(Video)




Obama cannot say "Under God" when quoting the Gettysburg Address.


(Video)




He's Covering up crosses-


(Video)




Georgetown University and The University of Notre Dame reported having to cover up the name of Jesus, crosses, and Christian symbols per White House rules when Obama gave speeches there.








Obama told us what his skill is.


"I'm really good at killing people."


http://youtu.be...


Obama is in a Grandiose Delusion of which he believes himself to be the world's religious moral authority, saying things such as, "That's not who we are", "We are not a Christian nation", not saying "under God", praising other religions, covering certain religious symbols, having the first Muslim Imom pray before Congress, mocked the Sermon on the Mount, ousted leaders in the Middle East who were not hostile to the U.S., lifted $150 billion in sanctions off of the most apocalyptic Muslim nation on Earth who believes they will literally usher in the undisclosure of the Mahdi(Islamic messiah) when the "sun sets over the West" by using nucleur weapons on Saudi Arabia according to Muhammed's hadith. Barack Hussein Obama literally believes himself to be God.
SM29

Con

I'm happy you made all these points. Pretty much your entire Round 4 debate is contrary to your premise.

"Meaning, Obama didn't go to church, but on the rare occassion he decided to go, it was to a church who preached the downfall of America. He wasn't practicing Christianity, but going for the novelty of hearing anticolonialist rhetoric from Wright as he trashed our nation."

"In speaking about Barack and Michelle Obama, Wright said, "Church is not their thing. It never was their thing."

And you also agreed to my point that Obama was not raised in a religious home. If you're making a case for anything about Obama's religious aspirations, it's that he's atheist, or I guess the proper term would be a "self-theist". Allow me to expand your point.

He has made up his own laws on immigration, bypassing the legislature in direct contradiction of Constitutional balance of powers:

http://www.cnn.com...

He did the same on gun control:

https://www.whitehouse.gov...

He has vetoed any attempts to crack down on sanctuary cities, actively choosing not to enforce the law, in direct contradiction of his oath to uphold the laws of the country:

http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Just today he set a record by commuting 214 sentences:

http://www.usatoday.com...

If you're looking to establish that Obama believes himself to be God, I'll be happy to help you make the case. God (the real one, not Obama) knows there's plenty of material to use.

Of course, this is nothing new. Since the beginning of recorded history totalitarian dictators have existed (if you like I'll be happy to make references here of every tyrant in history). All of the evidence you've presented creates a very strong case that Obama is a totalitarian who believes he should have total power over everyone. I agree wholeheartedly with that. But you don't have a direct link to your claim that he is trying to be both the Antichrist and the Madhi. Don't forget your premise means you have to prove both, and you haven't made a direct case for either. You've cited plenty of vague references that could be interpreted as supporting your point but also could be interpreted the opposite. You need the direct link and it's not there. Let me prove this by going back to one of your key points, Revelation 6:2.

"I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest."

I could make just as strong a case for this being Clayton Kershaw than you've established of any point to Obama.

White horse=color of Dodger home uniforms
Bow=A bow is a device for launching a projectile, which is Kershaw does better than anyone else
Crown=Kershaw won the pitching triple crown
Conquest=conquers the vast majority of hitters

That's the problem with inferring specific premises from vague references. Virtually anything can be twisted to a ridiculous result. That's what you're doing with Obama.

When it comes to Obama thinking he's God, you're still short a direct link, but you've at least established a circumstantial case for it (certainly more of a case than for him being the Antichrist.) If he's trying emulate God, then he can't be the Madhi (who is an agent of God) or the Antichrist (who is in opposition to God). Certainly the Antichrist will claim to be God, but he himself will know it to be a lie, so if Obama is genuinely trying to be God he's not the Antichrist.

You may wonder why I seem to be defending him when I so strongly oppose what he's doing as President. It's the same reason legitimate climate change scientists cringed when they watched "The day after tomorrow". People making ridiculous claims about a legitimate issue devalues the real claims. Focus on the real problems with Obama, not this insane conspiracy theory that doesn't even stand up to logic.
Debate Round No. 4
brontoraptor

Pro

Con:
"Obama was not raised in a religious home."


The Biblical Antichrist pays lipservice to multiple religions, but in actuallity is a "self theist" who makes himself into God, so the point stands. His irreligiosity is what allows him to emmulate theses 2 religious characters(Mahdi/Antichrist) without conscience.


*


Con:
"certainly more of a case than for him being the Antichrist."


I am not proving he IS the Antichrist, but that he is trying to emmulate the Antichrist per the Antichrist's characteristics in the Christian Bible.


*


Con:
"you don't have a direct link to your claim that he is trying to be both the Antichrist and the Madhi. Don't forget your premise means you have to prove both."


They are both described almost exactly the same. The major difference is the Mahdi is given a distinct sign of "the sun setting over the West" which is emmulated in Obama's symbol.


Here is a link comparing Mahdi to Antichrist-




*


Con:
"so if Obama is genuinely trying to be God he's not the Antichrist."


The Biblical Antichrist DOES "try to be God".


2 Thessalonians 2:4
He will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped...proclaiming himself to be God.


Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life...


Con:
"And you also agreed to my point that Obama was not raised in a religious home."


*


Con:
"certainly more of a case than for him being the Antichrist."


I am not proving he IS the Antichrist, but that he is trying to emmulate the Antichrist per the Antichrist's characteristics in the Christian Bible.


*


Con:
"you don't have a direct link to your claim that he is trying to be both the Antichrist and the Madhi. Don't forget your premise means you have to prove both."


They are both described almost exactly the same. The major difference is the Mahdi is given a distinct sign of "the sun setting over the West" which is emmulated in Obama's symbol.


Here is a link comparing Mahdi to Antichrist-




*


Con:
"so if Obama is genuinely trying to be God he's not the Antichrist."


The Biblical Antichrist DOES "try to be God".


2 Thessalonians 2:4
He will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.


Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Con:
"If you're looking to establish that Obama believes himself to be God, I'll be happy to help you make the case."


*


Isaiah 14:12
How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who weakened the nations of the world.


Isaiah 14:13
You said in your heart, "I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God.


Isaiah 14:14
"I will make myself like the Most High."


Based on the assessment of the Bible, here is the warning.


1)He honors a "foreign god of war". Obama honors Islam.


2)Watch out for anyone claiming to be a Jew who is not a Jew. (Rev 3:9)Obama has declared himself "the first Jewish President", with a wink and a nod.




3)Someone who pays lip service to the real God. (2 Timothy 3:5)


Obama actually thinks of himself as God. He has declared moral and religious authority towards a diverse set of groups of people.


*


Con:
"not this insane conspiracy theory"


Many "insane conspiracy theories" have been proven to have been true.






If God gave us a warning,(prophecy) are we to ignore it?


*


Daniel 7:25
"...and think to change times and laws..."


Con:
"He has made up his own laws..."


*


"Part of peoples’ concern is just the sense that around the world the old order isn’t holding and we’re not quite yet to where we need to be in terms of a new order that’s based on a different set of principles."

-Barack Obama




*


In Obama's America 2016(but made in 2012), Dinesh Dsouza exposed Obama's anti-American/Anti-European worldview per his book "Dreams from my Father", who his father was and his worldview, interviews with his siblings and people who knew him growing up, etc. The Obama administration tried to silence him through intimidation, targetted him, and had him thrown in prison.
Obama's America 2016 Trailer-




Obama plans to take America down-
Dsouza later talked about being right and how he could correlate what Obama would do in his predictions about Obama.




In Hillary's America, Dsouza correlates and predicts Hillary and Obama together, his plan to rule the UN while puppeting her, all in a clever attempt to "steal America".
Hillary's America trailer-




When the Antichrist is here, will you know him as such?


Matthew 24:24
"...so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones."
*

The Biblical Antichrist is a "self theist" who uses a system and religion in an attempt to rule the world. In reality he is essentially Satan in human form declaring himself to be a "messiah-like" figure, making himself "to be God". He would need a religious system that rules by intimidation and force to:

1)Rule the world

2)Enforce and impose his will.

One exists right now. Sharia Law. Anyone who defies it is killed. There have been strong movements to try and move it into European and U.S. law with some success. And there is a correlation:

1)Antichrist's followers bow to an image. Islam's followers do bow to an image.

2)Antichrist's followers behead Christians. Islam's followers behead Christians.

3)Antichrist's followers dogmatically reject "Jesus as the Son of God". Islam dogmatically rejects "Jesus as the Son of God". He is denounced by name and title multiple times in the Quran and on the Islamic Dome of the Rock.

4)Antichrist's followers shed the blood of Christians in mass. Islam has nearly fulfilled the genocide of Christians in the Middle East. It soon will not even exist.

5)Islam's followers look to stand against the "king of kings" in the last day. But...they are awaiting the Mahdi to fully seal the deal.

Many Muslim Sheiks, Imoms, and Clerics have inferred that Obama "is the one". And Obama tried to displace the government of Egypt with the Muslim Brotherhood(terrorist organization). He lifted $150 billion in sanctions off of Iran, who is to attack Saudi Arabia with fire in Biblical prophecy which is adhered to apocalyptically by Iraniaan Shiites. He ousted Gadaffi from Libya in a massive show of military force replacing him with an Islamic puppet regime. Gaddafi was our "ally" up to that point and was ousting terrorists. If one were to sum up the Obama foreign policy it would be this: he has resisted our allies(Egypt, Libya, Israel) and petted or ignored our bitter enemies(Iran, Syria)

*


Emmulating Mahdi?


Mohammed said, “The most awful name in Allah’s sight on the Day of Resurrection, will be that of a man calling himself Malik Al-Amlak (the King of kings).”


(Sahih-Al-Bukhari Bk 73; Num 224)


*


Here in this debate, I show the mind blowing correlation between Islam and "the Beast".


(Link)


SM29

Con

I'm going to keep my final argument short and sweet.

1. The Antichrist does not believe himself to actually be God. He does "exalt himself over the nations" and claim to be God, even though he himself knows otherwise (he is after all a liar). Obama has not "exalted himself over the nations" (this one, perhaps), and Obama has never even hinted at himself being God. I've asked you repeatedly for this direct reference and you've failed to provide it. In order to make your argument you need a definitive source that clearly shows Obama to be motivated by believing himself to be either the Antichrist or Madhi rather than just being a totalitarian dictator. That direct link has never been produced.

2. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 clearly states that no one knows when the Lord will return. Since the Lord will return to battle the Antichrist, and we don't know when the Lord will come, we don't know when the Antichrist will come, therefore guessing about Obama is premature.

3. All of your inferences and assumptions are based on nothing but conjecture. Anyone can twist vague references to suit their own theories, which is all you've done. The fact that Obama's symbol is "the sun setting over the west" is a key point you've made, when I could come up with a dozen different explanations for it (looks like a blue and a red/white picnic blanket to me, so I suggest Obama likes to picnics under the blue sky).

4. Just one final time; the Antichrist and Madhi will not be shy about who they are. If Obama was attempting to emulate either of them he would have to be open about it in order to do so. The simple fact that he makes no claim to being the Madhi or to being God (as the Antichrist would do) means he's neither, and he's not following one of the most basic activity requirements of either, so he's not doing an emulation of either. He's just a left-wing radical obsessed with power.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by brontoraptor 6 months ago
brontoraptor
We are running out of time for this Antichrist to appear Con.

http://mobile.nytimes.com...
Posted by SM29 6 months ago
SM29
Key word being "if". There's no clear evidence established he'll do either. And even if he does, he's still just a tyrant. If he's trying to emulate anyone it's Joseph Stalin.
Posted by brontoraptor 6 months ago
brontoraptor
If Obama heads the UN and puppets Hillary, he's only just begun.
Posted by brontoraptor 6 months ago
brontoraptor
It tells us in Genesis that God's descendents shall not come from Ishmael, but Isaac. Muhammed, the Arabs, and all of Islam come from Ishmael, even according to themselves.
Posted by brontoraptor 7 months ago
brontoraptor
Puff puff passmorrow. Remember pass.
Posted by morrow 7 months ago
morrow
who told you that Mahdi is the antichrist.He is coming to finish what Noah started and Jesus continued.The saviour that christians and followers of other religions are waiting for is mahdi.
No votes have been placed for this debate.