The Instigator
Demosthenes
Pro (for)
Winning
34 Points
The Contender
PARAMORE1220
Con (against)
Losing
19 Points

Barack Obama will defeat Hillary Clinton for the Democratic Nomination

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/28/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,788 times Debate No: 2258
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (15)

 

Demosthenes

Pro

As a rule, I try not to pick winners after just a few primaries. However, I can't help but notice that Barack Obama, when he wins, wins very convincingly.

First, the 8% victory over Hillary Clinton in Iowa. Who'd think that a black man, even in today's age of tolerance, would defeat a southern white man whose stated goal was to fight for the middle class (Edwards), or the Clinton political machine? I certainly didn't.

Then, the public beating issued by Obama to Hillary in South Carolina. A 20+% win? How often do we see that? It's not exactly common, especially in such a close race as the 2008 Democratic one.

This fills me with hope, that finally we may have a candidate that has a chance to break the stranglehold that image-creators and media consultants have on American politics. The Clinton machine, that has done nothing but rip off Obama and Edwards, that has resorted, in a time of desperation, to racial attacks and claims that an Obama win is a fairy tale, is finally seeing that America is tired of negative politics. In an age of terror and war, the American people have finally said enough is enough. We see enough negativity in our news, how about some hope once in a while?

I believe Barack Obama is the second coming of John F. Kennedy, a man who has a chance to unite the young people and the old behind a banner of integrity an hope, of hope for change, hope for unity, and above all, the hope for progress. Obama promises change, and from what the primaries show us, the American people are listening. Like Kennedy, he hasn't been in Washington long enough to be captured by campaign contributers, lobbyists, the whole game of politics as it stands right now. That's what we need more than anything else.

The American people need hope, they need change, and the only person with the strength and conviction to do it is Barack Obama. It's about time we got someone who genuinely wants to do good, not gain more political power.

Obama '08
PARAMORE1220

Con

Hello, and good luck.

I don't believe that someone can make a definate decision/jump to conclusions on who will win for the Democratic Nomination, because the caucasses and the primaries don't count; they are just small polls in order to get an idea of who's in the lead vs. who isn't doing so well. Therefore, if you based your opinion around these 2 polls and figured Barack Obama has had the better record, I believe you are wrong.

I am for Hilary Clinton, because she is a very strong democrat. Being a woman has also helped get her far in this competition, and her strong followers (her daughter and Bill Clinton) has also helped influence/persuade people to favor her rather than any other democrat. Her experience in politics, also, has gotten her a long way.
Debate Round No. 1
Demosthenes

Pro

Paramore, thank you for accpeting this challenge and the best of luck to you.

You stated that Hillary Clinton is a strong Democrat. Are you sure she just isn't playing one? Since she announced her run for president, she has done stated to conservatives that she is tough and can handle defending the country. To liberals, she has said that she will pursue a strategy of diplomacy in all cases. How can she say that? In more debates than I care to name, she has repeated how she would not speak to various dictators. She can't have it both ways. She has stated that she will be for the working class and for the middle class, yet she has repeatedly stated that she will raise taxes. How can one do that? She isn't a Democrat, she's a flip-flopper. And people know.

You mention her daughter and husband are campaigning for her. How is that a good thing? Isn't that basically showing that Bill Clinton is going to be the president again? She's not running to change anything or to help America. She is running to further build the Clinton legend. She is selfish, arrogant, and is running because she wants to be a "first" i.e. first woman president. Just listen to her speeches in front of womens' groups. She is "playing the boys-only game of running for president..." That is a direct quote. Is that what you want in your leader?

Lastly, you touched on the #1 point that people claim when attacking Obama; experience. Is that so bad? Not being in the bed of greed, corruption, rubbing shoulders and all those activities that harken back to Chicago under the gangs? What kind of politics do you want? One where the people choose the president, or where lobbyists and campaign contributers? Hillary Clinton will do nothing to change the status quo. That's the "experience" she and so many other GOP candidates claim. They've been in Washington, they know how it works. Yeah, they know how it works for THEM, not for the American people.

Barack Obama has not been in Washington long enough to be suckered into that game of favors, deals, paid dinners and trips, and campaign corruption. That's why so many people hate him. He represents a change from the old guard of American politics. The Bush's, the Clintons, the Kennedys, people like that who want the game to stay the way it is. The people of this nation realize what she stands for and what she will do, that's why she will lose.
PARAMORE1220

Con

First off, I would like to point out that I said Hilary was a strong democrat, and you didn't agree with me. How do you know that Obama will follow through with all of his promises? Personally, I think he is desperate for followers, and that is why he has the Kennedy's behind him. I just watched the news, and they were showing a speech in which Obama had to speak, followed by Kennedy. Obama only said one little paragraph worth of writing, whereas Kennedy continued to state how good of a president Obama will be... does Obama really need that much support in order to win?

<>
For one thing... no, it isn't showing that Bill Clinton is going to be president again, because he has already served his 8 years in presidency. Also, if you meant this like "Bill will do all the work for his wife", then that also isn't true. Hilary has so much experience, and that is why I believe she knows exactly what she's doing. She knows how to handle tough situations and deal with the public... enough said!
Debate Round No. 2
Demosthenes

Pro

You talk about support, and how desperate Obama is. I'd like to mention, along that line, Hillary Clinton's old friend Norman Hsu. You may or may not recognize the name, but he's the Clinton fundraiser who secured her over $1.1 million dollars on the campaign trail. He was also under warrant in california for grand larceny. Funny, I don't see many of Obama's friends in the papers for theft and fraud. You talk about desperation; I'd like to mention the numerous negative campaign ads and racial attacks launched by the Clinton campaign after it was discovered that they dropped 13 points in a poll. How funny, that a campaign would spend millions of dollars IN 2 DAYS before a primary vote. I'd call that desperation.

Then, you mention her "experience". What are you addressing? She has never been involved in a major executive position, and as Barack Obama noted when she said she was a critical part of Former President Clinton's government," My understanding is she wasn't secretary of anything under the Clinton administration." What experience? She's been a senator for 8 years. That's 4 longer than Obama. She has 0 foreign policy experience, and a pretty dismal domestic record. Voting for loosening of labor laws, voted against tax credits for the middle class when she was a senator, and three failed attempts at universal healthcare.

Lastly, when I said Bill Clinton would essentially be running the country again, you dismissed it. Bill Clinton was quoted in New Hampshire as saying if Hillary was elected president, the voters would basically be getting a "two-for-one" deal. Hmmm... That sounds like he's planning to be involved pretty heavily in her Presidency. Now, if she has 0 experience in foreign policy, and only 8 years in the U.S. Senate, where will she turn for advice, and guidance, all a resourceful man needs to make policy? Ah yes, her FORMER PRESIDENT HUSBAND. Bill Clinton. Don't be blind. This is nothing more than a vote for more Bill. I don't speak for everyone, but I do agree with the middle class. Bill Clinton's NAFTA agreement was disastrous for the American labor market, and Hillary herself is a dedicated free-trader. There will be no difference between the two, just a copy-paste.

I end my portion of this debate with a quote from a Washington Post article,"...but the truth is that she has never had much executive responsibility, let alone run a major government department. Most of her "experience" in government has been by virtue of her marriage..."

Well said, Michael Dobbs. Well said.
PARAMORE1220

Con

PARAMORE1220 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by MatterOfFact 9 years ago
MatterOfFact
<<He is a candidate noone questions on anything ..just because he is Black. he is not experienced , he is good with words and skirts all answers and just goes on and on about change. He never actually states what exactly the change is.>>

Obama has been questioned and scrutinized not just by the media, but by the Clinton campaign, blogs, and pundits. He has shown resolve and perseverance in the face of skepticism and cynicism towards his campaign. Race has not been the only reason for his success since he has shown to win in states with a white majority as well as states with a black majority. He is able to cross racial, gender, and ethnic lines in his appeal. His positions mirror those of Clinton on just about everything except on healthcare (no mandates vs. mandates) and being opposed to the war in Iraq from the beginning ( Clinton voted for the war). He has as much experience as Lincoln had before he ran for president. He is older than Bill Clinton he first ran in 91-92. But most importantly, the Constitution does not require "experience" to be a prerequisite for becoming president. Many so called "experienced" presidents have turned out to failures. Therefore the experience argument against Obama is weak one. Finally, the change he is advocating is a change in foreign and domestic policy. One that is multilateral and not unilateral. He also wants to change the mindset of politics from divisiveness to a more reasonable one that brings all ideas together for a greater good. What could be a better alternative? More division??
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
He is a candidate noone questions on anything ..just because he is Black. he is not experienced , he is good with words and skirts all answers and just goes on and on about change. He never actually states what exactly the change is.
Posted by MatterOfFact 9 years ago
MatterOfFact
Barack Obama is perfectly qualified to be president. Besides being a community organizer, serving in the Illinois state senate, and being a US senator, his candidacy demonstrates how well he can organize and manage his campaign which in turn provides insight into how he will govern as president.
Posted by farfrom123789 9 years ago
farfrom123789
well i agree with Paramore1220 because we cant tell who is going to win the election because they both were doing well in the primaries,however we cant tell from this point.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Well said wingnut, I agree completely.
Posted by toria_2metal 9 years ago
toria_2metal
wingnut-couldnt have said it better (:
Posted by wingnut2280 9 years ago
wingnut2280
Obama is a rhetoric bandwagon candidate who is in no way qualified for the job. Young people like him because he has sparked a trend. He is the young hip candidate. Watch him in the debates, he doesn't have the wherewithall or the experience. He should have waited. Four or eight years from now he would be the hands down nominee. Now, all he has to bank on is pretty diction and inspiring idealist messages.
15 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by FemaleGamer 8 years ago
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