The Instigator
judasmaccabaeus
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
RationalMadman
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Barack Obama's Christian Faith

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
judasmaccabaeus
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/25/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,595 times Debate No: 25277
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

judasmaccabaeus

Pro

Barack Obama is a Christian, period. Those who still deny this are liars with an agenda. The evidence that he is a Muslim is zero, the evidence that he is Christian is abundant. Here are just a few quotes:

A Sampling of Quotes from Barack Obama

As somebody who relies heavily on my Christian faith in my job, I understand the passions that religious faith can raise.

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)

(The story of Jesus' birth) that we are called to love each other as we love ourselves, that we are our brother's keeper and our sister's keeper, and our destinies are linked...It's a message that guides my Christian faith.

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)

(We can) see God in other people and do our best to help them find their, you know, their own grace...So that's what I strive to do...That's what I pray to do everyday. I think my public service is part of that effort to express my Christian faith.

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)

I found myself drawn - not just to work with the church but to be in the church...It was through this service that I was brought to Christ.

- President Barack Obama, University of Notre Dame (May 17, 2010)

It was because of these new-found understandings - that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking...that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized...But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth.

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)

Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So to say that men and women should not inject their "personal morality" into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

- Barack Obama (June 28, 2006)

There is hope for a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again and that its tender branch will not cease...The work ahead will not be easy, and there will be setbacks. There will be challenges along the way. But thanks to you, thanks to the great people of this great city, New Orleans is blossoming again.

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)

I am a Christian by choice...I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead...Being my brothers' and sisters' keeper. Treating others as they would treat me. And I think also understanding that, you know, that Jesus Christ dying for my sins spoke to the humility that we all have to have as human beings.

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)

I'm a Christian by choice. My family didn't-frankly, they weren't folks who went to church every week. And my mother was one of the most spiritual people I knew, but she didn't raise me in the church. So I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead-being my brothers' and sisters' keeper, treating others as they would treat me....

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)

I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead: being my brother's and sister's keeper, treating others as they would treat me...I think my public service is part of that effort to express my Christian faith.

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)

It's interesting listening to the girls, what they pray for...They'll talk about family and thanking God for blessing us, but they'll always add a little twist: 'I hope we have a great Thanksgiving, I can't wait to see the cousins...They used to pray for a dog, until we got a dog.

- President Barack Obama, commenting on the Obama family prayer before dinner

It means all the world to us to know that there are prayer circles out there and people who are keeping the spirits clean around us.

- First Lady Michelle Obama

I'd just sit in the back and I'd listen to the choir and I'd listen to the sermon...There were times that I would just start tearing up listening to the choir and share that sense of release.

- President Barack Obama (2008-2011)



LINK: http://thejudeochristiantradition.blogspot.com...
RationalMadman

Con

My argument is one point, one simple point that I hope my opponent will take into consideration.

Despite all that Obama says, despite all that Obama does, despite all that Obama appears to be, he could still be a closet atheist.

The methodology I wish to propose is this very well known strategy in politics that most people term 'Lying' or perhaps 'Deception' it just happens to spring to mind as I think of politicians to be honest with my opponent.

Lying: Not telling the truth. [1]
Deception: The action of deceiving someone. [2]
Politician: A person who acts in a manipulative and devious way, typically to gain advancement. [3]

Sources:
[1] https://www.google.co.uk...
[2] https://www.google.co.uk...
[3] https://www.google.co.uk...
Debate Round No. 1
judasmaccabaeus

Pro

judasmaccabaeus forfeited this round.
RationalMadman

Con

Forfeit accepted.
Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 2
judasmaccabaeus

Pro

judasmaccabaeus forfeited this round.
RationalMadman

Con

Forfeit accepted.

Vote con.
Debate Round No. 3
judasmaccabaeus

Pro

Hey, sorry sir, I am brand new here and didn't know about time limits etc. Anyway, here's my response.


YOU: Despite all that Obama says, despite all that Obama does, despite all that Obama appears to be, he could still be a closet atheist.

ME: Obviously, that holds true for every single Christian that has ever stated publically 'Jesus Christ is LORD.' Thus, your argument could apply to any Christian throughout history, including Peter and all he Aposltes and Disciples who knew him personally. The only true way of really knowing is to be martyred- killed by refusing to deny Jesus Christ unto the point of death. As history shows, this can and does happen, but surely for the rest us 'mere Christians' there are other suitable ways to judge a man's sincerity. So, here's a few clues to Obama's authenticity as a Christian

- His successful loving marriage to Michelle Obama, a life-long Christian who comes from a distinguished family of American Christians.
- His own autobiographical words about his eventual Christian faith appear to be very genuine (ie evidence of a true conversion experience) and have been confirmed not only by friends and acquaintances, but the media as well, including investigative jounalists.
- The factual reality of his Baptism and his very frequent attendance at a controversial, ethnic-centered, but still nominally Christian Church in Chicago.
- The way he openly prays in front of his staff, the words he has stated publically, and the way he prays before every meal with his family at the White House. Face it, true atheists do NOT pray, ever even to fake it as a sign of respect or to be polite. I urge you to type Obama prayer or praying on any major search engine and then go to images only. You will then find several photos of Obama with his hands together. his head bowed, and his eyes clearly shut. Name one known atheist, not a Christian who has doubts, but a true non-believer who has ever done this, and for so long of time.
- If it walks like a duck (marryig a fine Christian woman from a long-line of Christians) and if it talks like a duck (Yes, his theology is that of a flaming liberal Protestant but still Christian in general content) then we all must conclude kind sir that Barack Obama is a Christian.

God bless and shalom.
RationalMadman

Con

I shall counter with same thing:

Despite all that Obama says, despite all that Obama does, despite all that Obama appears to be, he could still be a closet atheist.


The methodology I wish to propose is this very well known strategy in politics that most people term 'Lying' or perhaps 'Deception' it just happens to spring to mind as I think of politicians to be honest with my opponent.

Lying: Not telling the truth. [1]
Deception: The action of deceiving someone. [2]
Politician: A person who acts in a manipulative and devious way, typically to gain advancement. [3]

Sources:
[1] https://www.google.co.uk......
[2] https://www.google.co.uk......
[3] https://www.google.co.uk......
Debate Round No. 4
judasmaccabaeus

Pro

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

- Albert Einstein

I begin with this quote because I see my opponent's strategy as having little difference to what Prof. Einstein was talking about. By posting the same words and insisting, once again, that Obama is another politician and politicians are by their very nature liars, therefore Barack Obama is lying about His Christian faith. I'm going to keep my response very short thist time by simply quoting the Bible. Considering the fact that Jesus Christ himself offers salvation from sin and admittance into Heaven based upon a man's (or a woman's) public affirmation of Jesus as their LORD and/or Savior. Barack Obama has indeed fulfilled this key requirement of Christianity, not once, not twice, but several times. I will provide at least two documented examples of his having done so in public. My opponent's position on Obama's public accpetance (confession) of Jesus as LORD, do not matter in the eyes of Christianity and various Christian authorities. Now if President Obama had done things in the past that were considered very unChristian and if he had continued doing those things repeatedly, then yes his public mentioning of Christ's name could be contstrued as insincere and possibly even a lie. That is not the case here. The present is simple and easy to understand. Here it goes:

THE REQUIREMENTS OF CHRISTIAN FAITH
-----------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Matthew 10:32-33: Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in Heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in Heaven.
(2) Luke 12:8-9: I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God, but he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
(3) Romans 10:9: If you confess with your mouth Jesus as LORD, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

THE FULFILLMENT OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OBAMA CONFESSION #1) 'First of all,' Obama began, 'I agree, Jesus Christ is the Lord. I believe in that.' (Is Obama the Antichrist? Apparently not, by Rob Kerby, blog.beliefnet.com)
OBAMA CONFESSION #2) In this speech, Obama says point blank. 'I came to accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior? Take the time as a Christian and see it for yourself.' (Todaysworldnewsinfo.blogspot.com)

DIRECT LINK: http://www.msnbc.msn.com...

As clearly above, the Bible teaches that the public confession- 'Jesus is LORD' not only serves as a major proof of someone's Christian faith it also promises a future reward for doing so. Ten billion people could contend he's lying about it, but it is ultimately up to God the Father and His Heavenly Angels as it clearly mentions in the above New Testament passages. Like I said, Obama is a Christian. Not only does doubting this look foolish, it also causes one to look very ignorant as well- ignorant of the Bible, ignorance of Christianity, and finally stubborn, irrational denial that saying 'Jesus n LORD in public is BY DEFINTION proof that they really are Christian. Anything is factual incorrect, including my opponent's current position.

God bless and Shalom.

P.S. Facts are stubborn things. No matter how much you dislike them, they continue to remain facts....


RationalMadman

Con

Clearly Einstein was incorrect. I did the same thing twice and didn't get the same result.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by The_Fool_on_the_hill 5 years ago
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Edit:
The Fool: Its a complete non-sequitar, he has already been in power, so you already know how he works, so any discussions can possiible matter. Some people are careless, even if he was a Christian. Its not something you want to stick out to much with the kind or Foreign relations you got going on. Its just asking for more trouble and unessecary suffering. Let that cool off.

Its not even a desciption nobody is really a Christian or a liberal or any of those things. They are people who have a beliefs about something. Thats it. The rest is Reification fallacies.
Posted by The_Fool_on_the_hill 5 years ago
The_Fool_on_the_hill
The Fool: Its a complete none sequitar, he has already been in power, so you already know how he works. ITs not even a desciption not body is a Christian of liberal or any of those things. The are people who have a beliefs about something. Thats it. The rest is Reification fallacies.
Posted by Magic8000 5 years ago
Magic8000
Cody said it! A debate on something only Obama knows is stupid

Shall we start one on what Obama ate for lunch yesterday?
Posted by thett3 5 years ago
thett3
stupid topic is stupid. Only Obama himself knows what his true beliefs are
Posted by Ultra 5 years ago
Ultra
+1 to what Cody said
Posted by Cody_Franklin 5 years ago
Cody_Franklin
I don't really give a sh*t about this subject, but I find it funny that your opening argument is "Look, Obama describes himself as X, so he must be X!" I guess self-reporting bias isn't a thing for you.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Nur-Ab-Sal 5 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
judasmaccabaeusRationalMadmanTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Con didn't really offer substantial rebuttals, he merely argued that it was possible for Obama to be a closet atheist, whereas Pro used specific quotations to prove Obama's Christian faith.