The Instigator
TFranklin62
Pro (for)
Losing
31 Points
The Contender
TheSkeptic
Con (against)
Winning
60 Points

Barrack Obama is a socialist

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/13/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,897 times Debate No: 6913
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (14)

 

TFranklin62

Pro

I am proposing that our currunt president Barrack Obama is a socialist and is leading America down the wrong path as far as the economy, morals, and lifestyle.
TheSkeptic

Con

I thank my opponent for starting this debate albeit is quite an egregious misunderstanding of political systems. Also, I wanna clarify with the audience in case they have qualms over the spelling: I'm quite positive that by "Barrack Obama" my opponent means "Barack Obama" so there will be no semantics in this debate. This is evident not only from the single addition of a letter, but also that my opponent refers to our "current President" (as of February 2009).

=====Counterarguments=====

>>>I am proposing that our currunt president Barrack Obama is a socialist... <<<

The funny thing is that this all started with an old 2001 radio interview with Barack Obama that caught the eye of the conservatives and soon popped up in the blogosphere. If you listen to the entire thing, the aforementioned humorous aspect is that what Barack Obama is supporting is actually CONSERVATIVE[1]. He was advocating limiting judicial activism.

His usage of "redistribution" in fact does not pertain to economics, but instead of rights. He was discussing about positive such as right to a lawyer, etc.

>>>...and is leading America down the wrong path as far as the economy, morals, and lifestyle.<<<

This is irrelevant to the topic at hand - if whether or not Barack Obama is a socialist. However, I do challenge you to prove these claims:

1. How is the stimulus package the "wrong path" for the economy?

2. How is Barack Obama leading us on the "wrong path" for our morals?

3. How is our lifestyle possibly being affected, least of all being led down the ominous "wrong path"?.

=====Conclusion=====

I do understand that my opponent's argument may stem not from the interview but rather from another source or reason. However, since he has yet to put an argument, I do not know from which "angle", if you will, he will come at. So I have refuted the most common example of Barack Obana's supposed socialist ties, and will await my opponent for a more clear round.

---References---
1. http://www.truthfightsback.com...
Debate Round No. 1
TFranklin62

Pro

Mr. Skeptic, I did spell Barack Obama incorrectly, you spelled "wanna" so now we are even, i'll try to avoid these errors in the future. But seeing as this is not a debate on grammar, I will now procede.

Mr. Skeptic, I didn't hear that radio interview with Mr. Obama. What I am refering to is his outlook on the economy. He was having a conversation with "Joe the plumber" from Toledo, Mr. Obama was informed by Joe that he wanted to buy a plumbing buisness that made about $250,000 a year. Joe was concerned that Mr. Obama's tax plan was going to raise his taxes considerably, in this video: http://video.google.com...# What I would like to point out is that when Joe tells of the American dream of working 10-12 hours a day, climbing up the lader over several years, and getting to the point when he can almost buy his own company, Mr. Obama is going to tax him more now that he has worked to this point. If Joe has worked for 15 years in the plumbing buisness and wants to own one and expand, what's to stop him? Except Mr. Obama that is. Please also notice that 95% of people who make under $250,000 a year will have SMALL tax cuts, what about the other 5%? Mr. Obama is saying that if he didn't work hard, 10 years ago, he would've kept more of his paycheck! I don't know about you, but that sounds a lot like socialism to me. Mr. Obama says that he doesn't want to punish Joe's success, but he did say that he wants to make sure that everyone behind Joe gets a chance at sussess too! Notice that Mr. Obama says "spread the wealth around" that involves taking Joe's hard earned money and giving it to other not as hard-working people. Mr. Obama says that small jobs really create more jobs, so if they do, then why tax Joe so that he can't expand his company? On to my other points.

My debate topic did include my three other challenges. You are right that it has no relavence as Mr. Obama isn't a socialist, but I would like to make this a combonation of topics. But you falsly quote me saying the stimulous package is the wrong path for the economy. I merely stated that Mr. Obama was leading the economy down the wrong path. Now to proove my three points. In my previous paragraph, I stated how Mr. Obama explained how he was going to tax people, if he is going to take your dad's money and give it to an ex-criminal gang member druggie, that's just not right. Taxing hard working Americans so he can have a big government and make big laws and bills filled with pork just doesn't fit in with the American dream. Now as for morals, Mr. Obama has voted for every abortion supportive bill that has been thrown at him. I believe that a life starts at fertilization and at that point, you have a very small, not developed baby, a human life. I find it sickening that someone would want to kill a human life, especially a defenceless baby who can't speak for itself. If you believe that a baby's life starts when it is concieved out of the woumb, then we can't debate the issue considering our perspectives. As far as our lifestyle, the economy is tanking and the unemployment rate is skyrocketing. many families are being evicted from their homes, thrown onto the street because of Mr. Obama's and other democrats voting bias. My life style personally has been affected by Mr. Obama because he has failed to take strong, immediate, and sensible action to save my budget. I won't be evicted or thrown out, but I am fortunate, other families aren't so lucky.
TheSkeptic

Con

I thank my opponent for responding to this debate so fast - it's a pleasure when I don't have to wait.

=====Counterarguments=====

>>>Mr. Skeptic, I did spell Barack Obama incorrectly<<<

Dude. Look at the freaking resolution...

>>>But seeing as this is not a debate on grammar, I will now procede.<<<

----> You didn't make a lot of spelling & grammar errors, but in the future it can cost you. If you notice in the voting systems, spelling & grammar is one of the points.

1. Obama's economic plan

Ah, I understand now. My opponent was referring to the "welfare state" idea Barack Obama is instating. The incredibly false assumptions my opponent makes is that if it isn't laissez faire, then it must be socialism! No.

Socialism entails that business and industries should be nationalized by the government. Basically, there will be no private property and the workers will take over since they are considered vitally important in the tenets of Socialism. Barack Obama simply supports capitalism that is regulated - a lesser form of laissez faire which advocates total freedom. He wants to regulate the economy to prevent recessions, failures, etc. This is a COMMON political route used by many presidents before.

Obama will not set up a government agency to plan the economy. or require businesses to meet quotas for production. He is not advocating socialism, but a tried and true method of regulating the economy.

2. The "other 3" topics

A. I've explained the economy - socialism aspect of this debate.

B.

----> I believe a fetus is a human when it becomes self-aware and self-conscious. This is when it has become defined as a human. I don't want to debate this in this topic - too little space - and in the last sentence you say that if we disagree then we can't debate this. Then don't bring this point; it's irrelevant to the main topic and resolution.

C. Your plight seems tough, but as I have shown it has nothing to do with Barack Obama's "socialism".

=====Conclusion=====

I don't want this debate to stray from the main point - about socialism. However, if my opponent intends to get sidetracked into abortion, then so be it. However, my original argument of how Obama ISN'T a socialist stands. This is simply knowing your definitions of what socialist or not. It's quite pathetic when conservatives throw the word "socialist" or "Marxist" around, just like when liberals throw the word "fascist" around. Both sides need to pick up an encyclopedia once in a while.
Debate Round No. 2
TFranklin62

Pro

Mr. Skeptic, there is a very broad line that separates socialism and communism. I believe that the definition you gave for socialism is in fact on the communist side of that line. Mr. Obama is proposing that the economy be regulated by creating a big government that will tax the small businesses taking their hard earned money and giving it to people who don't spend the time they should working for a living. Aside from that, I would like you to please respond to the statement that Mr. Obama said about "spreading the wealth." Your response about that not being socialistic will be very entertaining. And what about my 3rd challenge about our lifestyle? It seems you have left out vital information with only one more round to "wrap it up" if you will. The topic of abortion is not irrelavant sir because it is a moral or value that a person chooses to have, or not to have. Just because we have different views on this issue doesn't mean that it is irrelavant or not an important issue. I bring this point because it is one of MY morals, you choose not to believe the same way I do, that's OK. Abortion doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Mr. Obama is a socialist, just that as I stated in the previous round that I wanted to discuss several issuse in one debate.

In conclusion, I appreciate your sticking to the first point, but would like you to respond to my unanswered questions. You are absolutely right when you say that this debate depends on your definition of socialism, and that politicians need to know what the big words mean before they start throwing them around. It has been fun debating these topics with you, and I look forward to having another insightful and intelligent with a person such as yourself.
TheSkeptic

Con

I thank my opponent for his quick and polite responses - however, I have to sadly say that his arguments have been less than fruitful.

=====Counterarguments=====

1. Socialism - Economy - Barack Obama

My opponent accuses me of defining communism instead of socialism and "not respond[ing] to the statement that Mr. Obama said about 'spreading the wealth.'" It seems as if my opponent hasn't read my previous argument.

One of the main tenets of socialism is to have public or state ownership of industries[1]. This also includes the economy, which will be taken under control by the state. Barack Obama is NOT doing this he is simply regulating the economy. He is not implementing a system where there is equal opportunity and egalitarian compensation for all. Just because he doesn't advocate for total freedom of the market doesn't mean he's a socialist. There's MANY people who believe in regulating the economy - whether that is the right thing or not is not the point. The obvious issue is that Barack Obama is NOT a socialist. To say so would be a great and naive error of understanding of political ideologies.

2. Abortion

I have stated that this isn't part of the debate, but notwithstanding I have ALSO offered my rebuttal. That abortion is not murder if the fetus is not a person so Obama isn't "destroying our morals". Since you obviously haven't even bothered to refute this argument, I have nothing left to say on this topic.

=====Conclusion=====

I have refuted my opponent's sole accusation of Obama's supposed socialist beliefs and have answered/refuted his three other irrelevant points. He doesn't even bring up or defend the first and third point and his second point about abortion has been refuted - without any resistance. Vote for CON.

---References---
1. http://www.worldsocialism.org...
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by untitled_entity 5 years ago
untitled_entity
Learn to spell Franklin. Yer curruntlee gettun yor butt whooped
Posted by animea 5 years ago
animea
Con is the only one to define socialism in the round therefore his definition stands. He had better spelling. His arguments were logical and supported facts and I agree with Roy on conduct.
Posted by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
It's not possible to misspell the President's name in the resolution and win points for Spelling and Grammar. Pro loses conduct for failing to make an opening argument. Assertions are not arguments; arguments are supported by facts and logic. Con had the correct definition of socialism; it involves control of the means of production. Obama is clearly a redistributionist, but Pro offered no evidence that Obama wants to control the means of production. Obama may want socialism, but Pro offered no evidence. Clear win for Con.
Posted by sorc 5 years ago
sorc
\/ agreed. And it is interesting how TFranklin62 keeps saying that it doesn't matter what TheSkeptic's opinion is, yet constantly brings up abortion in his reasons to vote for him
Posted by TheSkeptic 5 years ago
TheSkeptic
Shut up. He isn't rash and I'm not accusatory - stick your nose in your own business.
Posted by rougeagent21 5 years ago
rougeagent21
hey guys, new thread! cool it! tfrankiln-your being rash! skeptic, your being accusatory. guys! cut it out!
Posted by TheSkeptic 5 years ago
TheSkeptic
No, I don't believe it's a baby when it pops out. I believe it's a baby/human/person when it develops the necessary mental faculties to be one - usually this is around 3 months of age.
Posted by TFranklin62 5 years ago
TFranklin62
if you would like to debate abortion, then please, let us debate! i believe that a life begins when fertilization occurs, you believe that when the baby pops out that that is when a life starts, this being said, i am set in my views, if you are interested in comeing over to my side, then please let me know, but just talking when a life starts isn't going to solve anything because it is odvious that neither of us will be moved
Posted by TheSkeptic 5 years ago
TheSkeptic
>>>no resistence? did YOU read my argument? i addressed all my points and you still haven't answered some of mine! read ALL of the debate please voters, and you will see clearly that I am the victor<<<

Do you even know what socialism is? Because if you did, then you would see how ridiculous your argument is.

Secondly, you haven't argued anything for abortion after I refuted your stance by stating fetus' aren't humans. So no, the vote doesn't go to you. But of course, the vote-bombers will come by any day now.
Posted by TFranklin62 5 years ago
TFranklin62
no resistence? did YOU read my argument? i addressed all my points and you still haven't answered some of mine! read ALL of the debate please voters, and you will see clearly that I am the victor
14 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Riley09 5 years ago
Riley09
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by studentathletechristian8 5 years ago
studentathletechristian8
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by untitled_entity 5 years ago
untitled_entity
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Marv 5 years ago
Marv
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by zach12 5 years ago
zach12
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by philosphical 5 years ago
philosphical
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by PieofLife 5 years ago
PieofLife
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Vote Placed by TFranklin62 5 years ago
TFranklin62
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by rougeagent21 5 years ago
rougeagent21
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by animea 5 years ago
animea
TFranklin62TheSkepticTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07