The Instigator
beatmaster2012
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
TUF
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

Batman could beat Spiderman in a fight.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
TUF
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/5/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 15,857 times Debate No: 22595
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (6)

 

beatmaster2012

Pro


Batman could win from Spiderman if they had a fight. The player has lost when he's unable to fight due to damage taken from his opponent.

We use comics and movies as resources.

Round one: acceptance
Round two: arguments
Round three: rebuttals
Round four: rebuttals + closing argument.
TUF

Con

I do acccept this debate, and look forward to my opponents opening arguments! Good luck, my friend. Your gonna need it! >-:)


Nah I am only kidding.

But good luck though.
Debate Round No. 1
beatmaster2012

Pro

Thanks, I think I need it more than you.

Let's first go over the powers both heroes have.

Batman
Genius level intellect
Peak physical and mental conditioning
Master Martial Artist
Master Detective
Expert Acrobat
Access to high-tech equipment, gadgets and weapons
Master of stealth
Master of disguise
Billionare thanks to his company
He has (criminal) records on every person
Trained Computer Hacker
Master tactician
Excellent observational skills
Photographic memory
Master strategist
Expert Marksman
Master Escapologist

Spiderman
Superhuman speed, strength and agility
Ability to cling to almost any surface
Ability to shoot webs from his wrist
Spidey-sense
Master hand-to hand combatant

#1 Batman's got dirt on everybody
Batman has records of every single person in his batcomputer. Thanks to his intellect and information he could find out every weakness Spiderman has and use it against him. He could plan a scenario in which he wouldn't even have to make any effort and he could beat Spiderman. Even if this wasn't the case, Batman is genious in adapting to his environment.

#2 He can put his money to good use
Batman has something Spidey doesn't, and that is money. It's only natural, Peter Parker is a teenager, Bruce Wayne owns a huge company. He has tons of handy gadgets that Spiderman doesn't. He even once used his money to create his own kryptonite to defeat Superman. Green Goblin had once created a gas that could temporarily shut off Spiderman's spidey-sense. If Goblin could obtain it, Batman can. Also notice that Spiderman's web shooters are nothing more than mechanical devices which can easily be jammed/drained/destroyed.

#3 Batman is a predator
Batman knows that Spiderman with his sense could easily counter the batarangs or any things Batman has. So he plans his attack carefully. Learning everything he can about the spider, he uses tactics to wait for the perfect moment to strike. Even Spiderman has to replenish his webshooters, even Spiderman gets tired. This can put Batman to his advantage since he's a master escapalogist and can hide almost everywhere (also because he wears a black suit instead of a freaking red-blue suit).

#4 Batman can defeat anybody
When Batman joined the justice league he collected information on every member so he could take them down when they turned against him. And he did. Even Superman knew his temper would be a great enemy so he trusted Batman to take him down when it was that far. And he did. Bane even broke Batman's freaking back once and he recovered. Batman has had several oppertunities to kill the Joker, mr. Freeze, the Penguin, Bane and many others. He doesn't because he's not an executioner.

These are my arguments.
TUF

Con

****FRAMEWORK*****


I would like to thank beat master for instigating the debate. I will begin by editing the list of qualities, and then Refuting my opponent before moving on to my own arguments.

First I would like to adress that the spiderman I will be adressing in this debate will be the most common spiderman, who was bitten by a spider and given powers similiar to that of a spiders'.

First I will gover over my opponent's compare and contrast list.


*****LIST OF QUALITIES*******

Batman
Genius level intellect
Peak physical and mental conditioning
Master Martial Artist
Master Detective
Expert Acrobat
Access to high-tech equipment, gadgets and weapons
Master of stealth



Master of disguise

(Interestingly enough, I find it hard to determine this "disguise" that batman has, as an actual disguise. When I think MASTER of disguise, I think of the way the agents is mission impossible can pull off practically any look. When I think of batman's disguise, I feel any person with 4th grade intellect could guess who is behind that mask had they known bruce wayne. http://www.funnyjunk.com...)


Billionare thanks to his company

(I have to question the importance this one holds to him being able to defeat spiderman in a fight.)



He has (criminal) records on every person
Trained Computer Hacker
Master tactician
Excellent observational skills
Photographic memory
Master strategist
Expert Marksman
Master Escapologist



Given this list is rather miniscule, I will go over and add a few things that I noticed were missing from it.

Spiderman
Superhuman speed, (Can lift 10 tons optimally, but increases throughout the saga to about 75 tons)
strength and agility (15 times more agile than the average human)

Ability to cling to almost any surface
Ability to shoot webs from his wrist
Spidey-sense (superhuman kinesthetics giving him the ability to avoid most injury)
Master hand-to hand combatant
Can Travel super fast
Pro at evasion maneuvers
Enhanced physiology

Enhanced Durability
Night vision
Intellect
He has a photographic memory as well
Has a better disguise then batman (His suit is a one piece completely covering him)
Better at escaping then batman
Doesn't require equipment like Batman does to get himself out of dangerous situations.
Speed

Excellent accuracy with web
The ability to subdue criminals with much more effectiveness.




http://marvel.com...(Peter_Parker)
http://marvel.wikia.com...'s_powers,_abilities_and_equipment
Okay now that that has been taken care of, I will now move onto my opponents case.


****OPPONENT CASE****



BATMAN's GOT DIRT ON EVERYONE


Let's assume the environment these two characters would be fighting in would be a city like area, given both of their own characteristics are adept to those similiar to New York City.

In this argument you are trying to say that batman would be superior to Spiderman simply given the area/location they are in would be easy to adapt to. We must remember however, that most of the entire Spiderman Saga take place in New York. After swinging through the buildings each and every day, Buidlings are his playground. Batman may be able to glide from building to building, be we must remember that Spiderman is one of the most agile Super heroes every mentioned in any comic or movie. He would easily be able to maneuver around any attack that batman tries to spew on him throguh such methods. Batman would be considerably slower as well, as gliding motions are much less speedy than that of a swinging motion.

You continue on to say that the bat computer could fish up information on spiderman. All I have to say is, if batman is relying on these methods to try and defeat spiderman, he has another thing coming. Spiderman is unpredictable, and considerably stronger. While Batman is confined to his simple mechanics, we can pretty much that all he will try to do to spiderman is use close combat techniques. Which in effect will not work as spider man is both strong in upfront battle and long range techniques.

http://marvel.com...(Peter_Parker)


BATMAN IS A BILLIONAIRE


First off, in reference to spidermans web shooters. Spiderman only has web shooters in the cartoon series. In the comic book and in the first movie, spiderman can shoot web purely out of his palms, without the use of any mechanic device. Thus, we do not recognize that spiderman can be blocked from shooting webs. However I still contest that money should have nothing to do with the fight they have. Spider man in a city setting should be easily able to escape any gas that may be able to deter his spidey senses. Even without spider senses, batman's strength is far inferior to that of spidermans. Batman is only human. Spiderman is a mutant. It all comes down to whether or not Batman can take a punch.


BAMTAN IS A PREDATOR

Batman is not a predator, at all, as you are referencing with this argument. So your saying that someone that needs to constantly escape and hide from their opponent, is a great predator? Your whole arguments here also ignores the fact that spider man knows how to plan out his attacks against a man who requires technology in order to even fight at all. All the spider has to do, is wrap a simple web around his opponent, and spider man is good to go!

BATMAN CAN BEAT ANYONE

Hmm... So are you saying that batman can beat perhaps.... this guy?!

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No, but in all seriousness, batman has been defeated many times. He has been impaired by most of his nemesis at least once before ever destroying them. This defeats your entire point because it shows that he is not invincible, and he too has weaknesses. The fact that you admit that bane breaks his back is proof enough, to know this hero is fallible.




Now that I have refuted all of my opponents arguments, I will move on to my case.




**** MY CASE ****






C1: BATMAN RELIES PURELY ON HIS EQUIPMENT

When comparing someone who can jump from building to bulding with ease, and has probably the strongest skills in combat and speed to someone who relies on his technology to save his butt, and even then proves to have a hard time with getting places he needs to go quickly and effectively... Do you really think this guy






Couldn't beat a guy who needs all of this to survive?



Without that bat gear, Batman is nothing. Even with the batgear, He doesn't stand a chance. He is not nearly as fast, strong, or and agile as Spiderman.




C2: SPIDERMAN's WEB PUTS BATMAN AT A DISTINCT DISADVANTAGE

Spiderman's web (as mentioned earlier) is Spiderman's ultimate weapon. If spiderman were to weave a web around batman and trap him, batman could literally do nothing to save himself. Even without being trapped, batman is utterly screwed. He has no way of catching spiderman. Spiderman can easily dodge attacks by quickly swinging from one place to the next. If batman even dreams of standing a chance, he would have to figure out some sort of device that would grant him flight other than gliding. There is nothing that can prevent spiderman from demolishing batman.

Even assuming we are talking about the spiderman that uses the machine that shoots web:
Spider man has a variety of suits with built in artificial web shooters as well!

http://geektyrant.com...


C3: BATMAN'S MORALS WILL NEVER ALLOW HIM TO OFFICIALLY DEFEAT SPIDERMAN

Batman's has a moral code that prevents him from killing another being. Even all of his arch nemesis, never die.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

We have no reason to believe that spiderman would be any different. Even if he did manage to temporalily "beat" Spiderman, he could never finish him off. Spiderman, however, does not follow this same moral code. If spiderman defeats batman, he will deliver the finishing blow and end batman's life, dis-allowing him to ever combat him again. The same will not apply with spiderman. IF spiderman was beaten, he could just keep coming back, thus never really defeated.

I wish my opponent luck in the next round.
Debate Round No. 2
beatmaster2012

Pro

Alrighty then. First to elaborate the list:

Master of disguise
I doubt that. Batman has a full body suit, voice distortion device and an electric shock device on his mask, so that anybody who touches it would get a shock. So yeah, maybe a grilled 4th grader could figure it out. Also in public Bruce acts like a shameless douchebag just to throw everybody off the hook.

But that wasn't even what I meant. I meant actual disguises. Often when Batman has to retrieve information about gangs and their whereabouts, he disguises himself as a mobster. He has various alter-ego's like Matches Malone, Thomas Quigly, Detective Hawke, Lester Krutz and many more.

Now off to the arguments.

Batman's got dirt on everyone
Gotham city is very similar to New York with its tall buildings, so Batman is familiar as well. About the gliding, you're partially right, though Batman does have a pneumatic system in his boots giving him somewhat of a jetpack (not entirely though, but he can build up quite some speed).

You're also forgetting Batman is a master tactician. Of course he knows he's in disadvantage if he went straight to him. There are many villains of his who are better in combat than Batman (like mr. Freeze), but he has defeated him despite.

Batman is a billionare
Okay, let's assume Spiderman does have organic webshooters. How strong the web is, it's still made of silk fibers, which can be easily destroyed using an acid-like substance. As for the Spider-sense, that's not flawless as well. Sure Spiderman could dodge the gas, but maybe Batman could plug it on himself, making Spiderman unable to approach him. Also his senses are immume for symbiotes. All Batman would have to do was collect a little symbiote-stuff, reproduce it and he has a weapon. If even that wouldn't work, Iron Man once made a device that sent off false Spidey Sense waves confusing the sh*t out of him. There are tons of things to disrupt his Sense. And without Spiderman's senses, Batman could defeat him easily since, Spiderman was never trained in combat as Batman was.

Batman is a predator
No, with predator I didn't mean someone who can escape. With predator I mean making good use of your training as a ninja and waiting in the dark until your prey is distracted, then grab him when he doesn't notice. Something which Spiderman could never do since his suit is effin' red and blue.
As for the night vision. I've looked into it and it were actually goggles, and Spidey used it once. And it was a thermal vision goggle which can easily be bypassed by for example not moving or cooling your suit down.

Also Batman can bend metal with his bare hands so I guess he can also struggle himself loose from a mere spiderweb, especially in combination with his anti-spidey-cum-acid.

Batman can beat anyone
If Batman had a beard, he could even beat Chuck Norris, guaranteed.
Yes Bane broke his back, but he still recovered, didn't he? Azrael took his place in that time but Batman subdued him because he was too violent.

Just like Spiderman has been defeated many times and even Mary Jane had been killed several times due too Spidey's swagger.


Off to your case.


Batman relies on his equipment
That is like saying without Spidey's spider powers, he couldn't win either. Batman has them, so he makes use of them. Also if you took away his equipment, he would still be a multi-millionare, ninja, master tactician, master of disguise, master of interrogation and police techniques and combatant. Also one of his biggest powers is his great will power, with that he can achieve about everything he sets his mind to.

Spiderman's web puts Batman at a disadvantage
Yes, it's his ultimate if not only weapon. That means if Batman found a way to destroy it, Spidey would lose. I've already told various ways to destroy that web of his. That's the difference between Spidey and Batman. Spiderman keeps clinging to his superpowers, making him predictable, while Batman keeps improving his tactics and adjusting them to his enemy, making him unpredictable and hard to beat.

Moral choice
This is what you understand under "defeating". Kill? No. KO? Likely. You said yourself Batman has been beaten numerous times, but never really killed (unless you count the trips to the lazarus pit). But there are ways to subdueing Spiderman and letting him live. Spiderman has killed several times, which he mostly did out of anger. This shows Batman is mentally more stable than Spiderman.

So if we talk about killing, then it would be an infinite fight since they would never kill each other. But if we're talking about KO'ing, then there's no problem.

Good luck to you too.
TUF

Con


I will go over my opponents case, then I will go over my own.

***** OPPONENTS CASE *****

1. MASTER OF DISGUISE

"I doubt that. Batman has a full body suit, voice distortion device and an electric shock device on his mask, so that anybody who touches it would get a shock. So yeah, maybe a grilled 4th grader could figure it out. Also in public Bruce acts like a shameless douchebag just to throw everybody off the hook. "

I am Not even talking shock devices physically touch Batman to know who he is. No one needs to Does no one find it convenient that his mouth and jaw are exactly similar to Bruce Wayne's?
Spiderman has a full body suit, so any plausibility of him being Peter Parker is eliminated.



"But that wasn't even what I meant. I meant actual disguises. Often when Batman has to retrieve information about gangs and their whereabouts, he disguises himself as a mobster. He has various alter-ego's like Matches Malone, Thomas Quigly, Detective Hawke, Lester Krutz and many more."

http://batman.wikia.com...

Actual criminal. This is a horrible disguise, because if someone knew that ACTUAL criminal and noticed the dis-similarities in Batman's facial features and his persona, Batman would be screwed. He is lucky in the series that the author gives the snow white effect, and this doesn't happen due to some retarded criminals.

If this is the argument for him being a master in disguise, and this is all batman has going for him, then he is up against a big challenge in spiderman.


2. BATMAN'S GOT DIRT ON EVERYONE

"Gotham city is very similar to New York with its tall buildings, so Batman is familiar as well. About the gliding, you're partially right, though Batman does have a pneumatic system in his boots giving him somewhat of a jet pack (not entirely though, but he can build up quite some speed)."

So now your admitting to batman's fallacies in maneuverability. We simply must presume that when is comes to agility, and ability to move away from attacks quickly, that Spiderman will take the cake. This also allows

"You're also forgetting Batman is a master tactician. Of course he knows he's in disadvantage if he went straight to him. There are many villains of his who are better in combat than Batman (like mr. Freeze), but he has defeated him despite."

Ah, so you are also admitting to Spiderman being better than Batman! To say that batman could spiderman in a fight then based on solely purposes of preparation, is then to use a semantics argument.

Even after all this, the argument falls. Batman can research the crap outta spiderman all he wants, but at the end of the day, he will always physically lack the strength and abilities that Spiderman Possesses.

3. BATMAN'S GOT INSANE STACKS

"First off, in reference to spidermans web shooters. Spiderman only has web shooters in the cartoon series. In the comic book and in the first movie, spiderman can shoot web purely out of his palms, without the use of any mechanic device. Thus, we do not recognize that spiderman can be blocked from shooting webs. However I still contest that money should have nothing to do with the fight they have. Spider man in a city setting should be easily able to escape any gas that may be able to deter his spidey senses. Even without spider senses, batman's strength is far inferior to that of spidermans. Batman is only human. Spiderman is a mutant. It all comes down to whether or not Batman can take a punch."

Each argument made thus far has been an admittal to defeat. I agree with this argument in it's entirety. I am sure Batman can take a punch, but what about 2 or 3 or 4? How many can Batman take before he is defeated? If spiderman is really that much stronger, that much faster, and that much all round superior, then what chance does batman really have against Spiderman?
Bat man being able to take a punch is not an argument that supports him winning a fight against Spiderman. The argument you were trying to make here is now deterred, as well. I ask the question, if batman can afford vast quantities of items, how are they going to help him? Now that you agree that spiderman is superior, we can assume that Spiderman can dodge anything on Batman's cute little utility belt.

4. BATMAN IS A PREDATOR

"No, with predator I didn't mean someone who can escape. With predator I mean making good use of your training as a ninja and waiting in the dark until your prey is distracted, then grab him when he doesn't notice."

You see, with Batman's many weaknesses, he has to rely on staying hidden. Spiderman is powerful enough, to where he can confront his enemies Full Force, and still take out the crooks! But even spiderman has tactics. He has sneaked up on his foes before as well, often gently webbing down above the enemy, to drop down as a surprise attack.

http://marvel.wikia.com...(Peter_Parker)

5. BATMAN CAN BEAT ANYONE


"Yes Bane broke his back, but he still recovered, didn't he? Azrael took his place in that time but Batman subdued him because he was too violent."

So then Batman was beaten. If he can be beaten, then he cannot be anyone, and this point falls.


***** MY CASE *****

C1: Batman relies on his equipment

"
That is like saying without Spidey's spider powers, he couldn't win either. Batman has them, so he makes use of them. Also if you took away his equipment, he would still be a multi-millionaire, ninja, master tactician, master of disguise, master of interrogation and police techniques and combatant. Also one of his biggest powers is his great will power, with that he can achieve about everything he sets his mind to."

That's not the point I was trying to make however. Think about it this way. Batman Can lose his equipment. What then? Spiderman cannot just lose his powers... They are part of him.

Batman may be an intelligent individual, but this will not help him if Spiderman can get his equipment away from him. He is basically now Spiderman's victim, and is subject to whatever Spiderman wants to due to him.

C2: Spiderman's web puts Batman at a disadvantage

"Yes, it's his ultimate if not only weapon. That means if Batman found a way to destroy it, Spidey would lose. I've already told various ways to destroy that web of his. That's the difference between Spidey and Batman. Spiderman keeps clinging to his superpowers, making him predictable, while Batman keeps improving his tactics and adjusting them to his enemy, making him unpredictable and hard to beat."

In order for this argument to work, you must present a way for Batman to accomplish this, which is virtually impossible, as these abilities are naturally a part of Spiderman. Batman's equipment is not, as said above. Also predictability won't matter if Batman cannot defeat Spiderman. This is the only thing Batman has in his arsenal, but even you said Spider man is Superior.

All he has to is wrap batman up in a shroud of web to impair batman to the point where he cannot use his weapons.

C3: Moral choice
"This is what you understand under "defeating". Kill? No. KO? Likely. You said yourself Batman has been beaten numerous times, but never really killed (unless you count the trips to the Lazarus pit). But there are ways to subduing Spiderman and letting him live. Spiderman has killed several times, which he mostly did out of anger. This shows Batman is mentally more stable than Spiderman.
So if we talk about killing, then it would be an infinite fight since they would never kill each other. But if we're talking about KO'ing, then there's no problem."

How can you say one is truly beaten, if they can always come back for more of a fight? The enemies that Spiderman has killed (whether out of anger or not) are still dead, and can never return to battle Spiderman, thus they are truly defeated. If Spiderman can do this to Batman, then Batman will be defeated. Batman cannot, and will not kill any one for any reason, so no matter what Spiderman is free to defeat Batman at will.

I thank my opponent for this debate, and wish him good luck in the final round.
Debate Round No. 3
beatmaster2012

Pro

This is my final chance, so I'll wrap up the things and present a scenario of what I'd think would happen.

"Spiderman has a full body suit, so any plausibility of him being Peter Parker is eliminated."
Yes, except for probably the most important thing: his voice.
Would you rather recognize someone's voice or the shape of his mouth? That's my point.

Let's take an example out of the movies. In the Batman movies, which villains actually knew Batman's identity?
Ra's Al Ghul? Yes. Because he was his apprentice, so that would make sense. Scarecrow? No. Harvey Dent? No. Joker? Also not. And before you start dragging Rachel Dawes into this, notice Joker only knew Batman had a crush on her, not Bruce Wayne.

Now for the Spiderman movies. Did Green Goblin know his identity? Yes. Why? Because Spidey made a slip up in his fight with him and thereby blew his cover, not very professional. Doctor Octopus? Yes, because he actually showed his face. Sandman? No. Harry Osborn? Yes. Eddie Brock? Yes.

That's 1 against 4.

"Batman will always physically lack the strength and abilities that Spiderman possesses."
Did Odysseus win the Trojan war because his army was so strong?
Did Napoleon conquer Europe because he was so tough?
Did Hannibal form the greatest threat against Rome because he had such a good army?
My point being, strength is certainly not everything when it comes down to a battle.
Most of the times a good pair of brains is all needed to win, in which this case Batman has an advantage.

"We can assume Spiderman can dodge anything on Batman's utility belt."
I'm not confessing Spiderman is superior, I'm being realistic and saying Spiderman is more agile than Batman. Of course the Bat knows this, that's why he wouldn't try straight on combat fight, which I will explain later.

"Spiderman has sneaked up on his foes before as well."
Surely Spiderman can try the little stealth act as well. But that's not his nature. Spidey's nature is to confront an enemy, make a few wisecracks, dodging most of his attacks and punching them.
Batman however, was trained by the league of assassins in stealth, and make his foes fear the dark. Besides, Batman wears a black suit while Spidey wears a red-blue suit, which is not very handy as well.
So also here, Batman has the upper hand.

"If he can be beaten, then he cannot be anyone, and this point falls."
If you're implying he can't fight crime because he once had is back broken, I dare to object. Batman had his friend Azrael sit in for him, while he was recovering.

"Spiderman can't lose his powers."
He actually did in Spiderman 2 due to lack of his motivation.
This also proves the lack of discipline to fight crime. This is partly because Spiderman got his powers by accident, while Batman dedicated his whole life to fighting crime.
Als if Batman loses his equipment, he's still an awesome kicking ninja.


My scenario of what would happen
So let's say Bat and Spider would both get a week prep time. Spiderman has the tendancy to underestimate his foes, and since he's from a different comic world, he wouldn't know Batman and just think he's an idiot in a batsuit.
While Batman does his research and gets his hand on a sonic Spidey-sense disruptor (this device actually exists, Iron-man made it).
So the playground would be New York. Batman would arrive first on the scene, placing the device somewhere in an alley (not on himself so Spiderman wouldn't be able to track him) and sprays the surroundings with some explosive gel. He then waits in the dark for Spidey to turn up.

Spiderman first wouldn't know where he is so he would swing around a bit to look for him. When he's close enough Batman activates the disruptor causing Spiderman's sense to fail. Spiderman would be confused, he hurt himself in the confusion. Just kidding.
Either he would:

#1
Try to trace the source of the disruptor and look for it in a dark alley, not being able to see the explosive gel. The gel detonates and Spidey being unable to predict it would get blown away. With not enough time to recover Batman would fly out of the dark and grab Spidey. He breaks his nose, punches him in the throat making him have trouble breathing and finishes off with a well placed kick to his chest causing his sternum to collapse and fracturing most ribs he has. Spiderman would be struggling to breath with his ribs puncturing his lungs. Now you would need a lot of endurance to even be able to stand up. Notice that Batman has developed and acid spraying device in his wrist to prevent any webbing Spiderman would do.

#2
Spiderman would flee trying to outrun the disrupting signals and thereby not noticing his surroundings. Batman has located himself in the opposite direction of the signals so if Spidey would flee he would go straight to him. Then all Batman had to to was to destroy his web with his acid gun and either fire a tranq dart to him (which he could not dodge since his spider sense fails) or he could just glide to him and kick him out of the air and breaking his arms and punching him in his armpit causing his body to paralyze (there's a lot of nerves in the armpit, I practice taekwondo so I know this).

If you have more questions about my theory, ask it in the comment section.


I have countered most of my opponents arguments and presented a plausible scenario.
I wish my opponent good luck in the final round and may the best man win. :)
TUF

Con

**** MY OPPONENT's CASE ****

Spiderman's identity

"
Yes, except for probably the most important thing: his voice.
Would you rather recognize someone's voice or the shape of his mouth? That's my point."

Um definitely the shape of his mouth. Reasons:

1. People can easily memorize someones face and put two and two together.

2. Spiderman talks mainly to his criminals telling them some cheesy "I caught you" line. Plus people cannot easily put a voice to this name anyways. Would anyone expect poor, geeky peter parker to be spiderman? no. What about a millionaire with an arsenal of expendable resources? More likely.

"Let's take an example out of the movies. In the Batman movies, which villains actually knew Batman's identity?"

Same goes with spiderman. But I thought we were talking realisticly though? Realisticly speaking, batman is definitely easier to catch than Spiderman, given the discrepanies in his disguises.

"Now for the Spiderman movies. Did Green Goblin know his identity? Yes. Why? Because Spidey made a slip up in his fight with him and thereby blew his cover, not very professional. Doctor Octopus? Yes, because he actually showed his face. Sandman? No. Harry Osborn? Yes. Eddie Brock? Yes"

Revealing himself to those individuals bears no significance as they are criminals. The law is what you want to keep your identity hidden from, as they are often strictly against vigilantism.

Batman's Strength

"Did Odysseus win the Trojan war because his army was so strong?
Did Napoleon conquer Europe because he was so tough?
Did Hannibal form the greatest threat against Rome because he had such a good army?
My point being, strength is certainly not everything when it comes down to a battle.
Most of the times a good pair of brains is all needed to win, in which this case Batman has an advantage."

So are you saying that Spiderman, after defeating all his foes, lacks this same intellectual capacity required to defeat batman? I feel mental wellness is definitely a factor, however, when you have mental wellness mixed in with the strength, how can we assume that Batman will not fail in his endeavors?

Spiderman's superiority

"I'm not confessing Spiderman is superior, I'm being realistic and saying Spiderman is more agile than Batman. Of course the Bat knows this, that's why he wouldn't try straight on combat fight, which I will explain later."

None the less, we still have the assumption there that spiderman could definitely outbeat his opponent in speed. OF course the bat will try to do something else to fight spiderman. But let's remember that the key word here is "Try".


Spiderman's sneak attacks.

"Surely Spiderman can try the little stealth act as well. But that's not his nature. Spidey's nature is to confront an enemy, make a few wisecracks, dodging most of his attacks and punching them.
Batman however, was trained by the league of assassins in stealth, and make his foes fear the dark. Besides, Batman wears a black suit while Spidey wears a red-blue suit, which is not very handy as well.
So also here, Batman has the upper hand."

All of this, however, become irrelevant when you implement spiderman's Spidey sense into the equation. No matter how hard Batman tries, Spiderman will always catch on to his plots.

Batman can beat anyone.

"If you're implying he can't fight crime because he once had is back broken, I dare to object. Batman had his friend Azrael sit in for him, while he was recovering"

Nah, this isn't what I am implying at all. Your point was that batman can beat anyone. If this is the case, how was he beaten before? If he is so unbeatable, invicible, and empowering, how do you attempt to prove he has this god complex injecture in his state of being?

**** MY CASE ****

Powers

"He actually did in Spiderman 2 due to lack of his motivation.
This also proves the lack of discipline to fight crime. This is partly because Spiderman got his powers by accident, while Batman dedicated his whole life to fighting crime.
Als if Batman loses his equipment, he's still an awesome kicking ninja."

Again were not talking about fighting crime here, or special situations. We are looking to a fight where we can assume both character are fully equipped in their peak fighting style. So if Batman get's his belt altered or removed, and impaired by Spiderman, what is his next course of action?

PRO's Scenario of the fight

"So let's say Bat and Spider would both get a week prep time. Spiderman has the tendancy to underestimate his foes, and since he's from a different comic world, he wouldn't know Batman and just think he's an idiot in a batsuit."

On the contrary I could say that Batman has a tendacy to put his morals as a factor over his strategic combat abilities. What happens if Spiderman get's inside his head?

And batman's appearance will be everything but true even if spiderman does underestimate him. Batman would be weaker than any foe the spider has faced, possesing no real combative threat to spiderman. Underestimation doesn't even factor into hte equation.

"While Batman does his research and gets his hand on a sonic Spidey-sense disruptor (this device actually exists, Iron-man made it)."

Oh really? If were playing that game, then I guess spiderman makes an anti-batman potion, that instantly turns him into a tree stump. I hope you see the illegitimacy and fallacies this arguments possesses.


"So the playground would be New York. Batman would arrive first on the scene, placing the device somewhere in an alley (not on himself so Spiderman wouldn't be able to track him) and sprays the surroundings with some explosive gel. He then waits in the dark for Spidey to turn up."

Easy. Spiderman doesn't even need to combat batman in his turf, or anywhere near where batman is presumed to be. Also spiderman would more likely fight in a situation that better suits his combat needs, above ground, and in complex spots for the bat.

Scenario 1

"Try to trace the source of the disruptor and look for it in a dark alley, not being able to see the explosive gel. The gel detonates and Spidey being unable to predict it would get blown away. With not enough time to recover Batman would fly out of the dark and grab Spidey. He breaks his nose, punches him in the throat making him have trouble breathing and finishes off with a well placed kick to his chest causing his sternum to collapse and fracturing most ribs he has. Spiderman would be struggling to breath with his ribs puncturing his lungs. Now you would need a lot of endurance to even be able to stand up. Notice that Batman has developed and acid spraying device in his wrist to prevent any webbing Spiderman would do."

Again I easily counter this with the illusive and free anti-bat potion that spider man comes across. One quick spray with this, and batman is down for the count. This whole scenario lies strongly on the if possibility of batman aqquiring such an item, which is not even introduced in his saga.
I highly reccommend the audience disregaurd this "argument".

Scenario 2

"Spiderman would flee trying to outrun the disrupting signals and thereby not noticing his surroundings. Batman has located himself in the opposite direction of the signals so if Spidey would flee he would go straight to him"

The above still applies here. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt. How has batman managed to get himself to lure spidey into his trap, then instantly arrive at the scene where he will run into spiderman attmepting to flee?

**** CONCLUSION ****

I win this debate in several areas.

SOURCES: My opponent has not provided any, all his sentiments are claims.

ARGUMENTS: My opponent has agreed on several occasions that spiderman is both faster and stronger than batman. Plus most of his scenario's use logical fallacies, and unfair arguments.

CONDUCT: My opponent only responds to choice text choices in each arguments. The bulk of every one of my contentions have been dropped, and only certain things were hit by my opponent.

I thank the viewers for taking time out to read this debate, and my opponent for the fun debate.

Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by flash-man69 2 years ago
flash-man69
sory bats but spidey has this one.
Posted by Gohan12345 3 years ago
Gohan12345
Woah woah!!
Spiderman is not able to beat batman even with a gility and speed lets not forget batman has survived a back break from bain and has made himself a human tazer. Batman is very intelligent. Spiderman will only have a chance to outwit his stealth cuz of his spider senses
Posted by Graffiacane 3 years ago
Graffiacane
I dont know how I encounered this debate, but... some twisted curiosity made me read your little chat... and I must ask... was this a joke? You argue about fictional characters who are constantly changing with time... and you didnt even define the version of characters you are comparing. You mention movies, then books, then who knows what... merging all versions into one, which is bound to make many contradictions (Eg. In his first comic book, batman actually had no problem with killing, where as he is, in the newer versions, being all "I dont kill" and stuff).
Also, there was this one conclussion... If you were once beaten it isn't true that you can defeat everyone. Thats the same thing as saying "If you farted, you cannot piss".
Maybe you can be beaten by someone(and were beaten), but the only way that coclusion could make sense is if there was only one encounter... and thats something nobody mentioned (and there were many conclusions made on unexistent premises, making this debate a joke).
Basically, not one of you made an actual point...
Posted by drafterman 4 years ago
drafterman
lolwut. Spiderman is classified as having superhuman strength with the ability to lift up to 20 tons, beating out Captain America, who is generally the measure of how strong a human can be without being classified super human.

In terms of strength and fighting ability, both Batman and Captain America are comparable to each other, both being described as having "peak physical strength," though Captain America edges him out slightly (1,000 lbs vs. 1,200).

So, Spider-man is 40 times as strong as Batman in terms of pure lifting strength, Spider-man also has toughened flesh, which further dismisses the possibility of Batman simply snapping his neck "like a chicken bone."

But strength isn't his strong suit, it's agility and danger sense. Spider-man is generally considered to be the benchmark for superhuman agility which, when combined with his danger sense, makes your statement, BMS97, little more than putting the cart before the horse. How do you propose Batman getting a hold of Spidey in the first place?
Posted by TUF 4 years ago
TUF
That comment lacked actual fact, and is riddled completely with your own opinion. Read the debate, you will see that I proved this is not true. Spiderman is also incredibly strong.
Posted by BMS97 4 years ago
BMS97
Spider man isn't even strong... He's just a weak little baby that can shoot string from his wrist... Batman on the other hand is jacked s o once he got ahold of Spider-Man he would snap the kids neck like a chicken bone!
Posted by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
Oops, forgot to vote. I'm sure I would have voted for Con, though. I still believe that Spider-Man would only win in a chance encounter. A prepared Batman is essentially unbeatable.
Posted by beatmaster2012 5 years ago
beatmaster2012
Sure thing ;)
Posted by TUF 5 years ago
TUF
I know, but it wasn't introduced anywhere in the batman saga. Anyways, don't take any of it to heart, it was just a debate. I really enjoyed it too, so thanks for the debate!
Posted by beatmaster2012 5 years ago
beatmaster2012
About the unfair argument, I thought we agreed to use comics as resources. And Iron Man really did made a disruptor.

http://marvel.wikia.com...
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by gr33k_fr33k5 5 years ago
gr33k_fr33k5
beatmaster2012TUFTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: The debate moved away from beating in a fight, if on the field of battle they faced each other all the sneaky stuff wouldnt help, itd be a matchup of fighting prowess and spiderman is as strong as 15 batmans and far faster.
Vote Placed by Thaddeus 5 years ago
Thaddeus
beatmaster2012TUFTied
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Reasons for voting decision: As the Batman of Oxford I can confirm that in a fight, I would lose to Spiderman.
Vote Placed by Scorbie 5 years ago
Scorbie
beatmaster2012TUFTied
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Reasons for voting decision: In my opinion Batman is a better superhero,but that doesn't mean he can beat spider man.That has to be the best superhero debate ever. But come on everyone knows it just takes water to kill a spider. He can't get sticky when wet.
Vote Placed by SarcasticIndeed 5 years ago
SarcasticIndeed
beatmaster2012TUFTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro made arguments and scenarios based on speculation. Con refuted his arguments well and his own remain solid.
Vote Placed by jwesbruce 5 years ago
jwesbruce
beatmaster2012TUFTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Awesome debate. Pro's prediction of the fight was fair and convincing. Batman usually does triumph through wit and Spiderman has a hard time facing strat (initially albeit.) Especially being that the spidey-sense disruptor, indeed, does exist in the comic world, and that was brought up by Pro.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
beatmaster2012TUFTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This was a really kick ass debate, almost every topic was covered in this debate (The only one left out was about allies and sidekicks) But in my opinion con had a really good point with spidey sense being able to avoid most injury and also being able to maneuver vertically much better. Batman is a genius, a spy, and quite strong but con does have a point in that Batman relies on his equipment. If caught offguard (like at a public party) Spiderman could thrown down while Batman couldnt....