The Instigator
byrdmanryan
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Maikuru
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Batman is better than Superman

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Maikuru
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,435 times Debate No: 29341
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (3)

 

byrdmanryan

Pro

Batman is a better superhero than Superman. Although, if the two did fight, Superman would win, Batman is by far a better person and superhero.

Superman was born with superpowers, meaning when he came to Earth, one of his obligations was to fight crime. Everybody knows that if they woke up with superpowers one morning, they would have to be a superhero or supervillian.

Batman, on the other hand, is a multi-billionaire. Bruce Wayne is one of the richest men in the world and can do anything with the money that he has. Although he can do anything with all of the money that he has, he chooses to fight crime for the good of the people. If you ask anybody in the world what they would do if they won the lottery and won millions of dollars, their answer would not be, "to go out and risk my life to fight crime."

This is why Batman is morally, ethically, and all around the best superhero, and better than the best known superhero, Superman.
Maikuru

Con

Rather than discussing which character is stronger, my opponent wishes to base superiority on the motivations and decisions of these two fictional heroes. Sounds good to me! Let’s begin.

Affirmative Case

1.What they’re fighting for

As we all know, Superman is one of, if not the, most powerful character in any comic franchise. Yet, rather than plotting world domination and spearheading human slavery, he spends his time defending truth, justice, and the American way. That’s because Clark Kent was raised by down-to Earth farmers of modest means who taught him that the key to a respectable life is helping your fellow man. Clark learned to realize that the more a man has, the more he should give. When you grow up to be a super man, then, it is only ethical to give everything you have for the well-being of your world.

Batman’s rise to heroism could not be more different. A child of privilege largely segregated from the truths of the world, Bruce Wayne’s childhood came to a sickening halt when he watched his parents be gunned down in front of him. From then on, Bruce’s world was consumed with thoughts of only vengeance, hate, and fear. He modeled his life on the concept of paying evil back in kind, and he does so every day through his use of psychological warfare, unmitigated violence, and manipulation of both criminals and the law.

Both men have done great good and saved countless lives. However, while Superman’s motivation to do so stems from a sense of fairness and a wish to protect the innocent, Batman is driven only by revenge and a deep desire to punish the guilty. In terms of which hero can be considered the better person, there is no contest. Batman’s heroism is based on the worst qualities within us, whereas Superman represents ideals mankind strives to achieve.

2.Stranger in a strange land

Even if we assume that those with the ability to do good have an obligation to help their own kind, Superman still doesn’t have to help anyone. Remember, Superman is an alien from a far off planet, not a human. He also has the powers and resources necessary to relocate anywhere else in the galaxy at any time. The fact that he chooses to stay and help genetic strangers in need is a far more impressive moral feat than Batman simply helping his own people.

3. Do no harm

Batman is a criminal. He’s a criminal who fights other bad guys, but he’s a criminal nonetheless. Because he chooses to work outside the law rather than within it or alongside it, he commits more crimes every day than those he’s sworn to capture. Just a few examples include:
  • Trespassing
  • Assault and battery
  • Kidnapping
  • Destruction of property
  • Illegal surveillance
  • Evading and resisting arrest
  • Child endangerment
  • Murder and attempted murder [1]

Superman, who works with law enforcement and has actually been sent on missions by the white house, does not need to resort to such criminality and lawlessness. [2, see: Battle for Metropolis]

Rebuttals

1. To be bad, or not to be bad

Pro’s entire case is essentially two statements. First, Superman doing good is not impressive because anyone with powers will eventually become a hero or a villain. Second, Batman being a hero is impressive because nobody rich ever chooses to be a hero. Now it may not seem like it, but combined, these claims present a strong point in my favor. Intrigued? I thought you might be.

Pro argues that no normal person would purposefully do the right thing if given the opportunity to do otherwise. For Batman, that means struggling with the choice to either fight crime or sit on a beach somewhere. For Superman, though, that means struggling between fighting crime and doing literally anything he wants! Superman is the most powerful being on the planet and knows that if he wanted, he could very easily rule the world and every living thing on it. According to Pro’s own logic, the urge for him to do this should be extreme. The fact that he doesn’t become this great evil and instead sacrifices his time, life, and well-being to be a hero represents a will to do good that Batman could never achieve.

I’ve got some additional arguments I’m toying around with but we’ve got three rounds.

References

1. http://www.cracked.com...
2. http://tinyurl.com...
Debate Round No. 1
byrdmanryan

Pro

Thank you for accepting my debate and good luck!

Rebuttals

1. Motivations

It cannot be said which ulterior motives are brought into each superhero's thought process during their decisions. Superman was a product of him being raised by good American people. Superman was sent off to a distant planet by his parents with hope for a better life. Superman has grown and changed by the influence of the society around him. Superman works alongside the government and rules and uses his powers to enforce the law. Now, we all know that even though certain things are encouraged and said to be right by society, they are not correct.

Now, as you say that what each superhero is fighting for matters, this cannot matter less. A prime example in American History to show that this is false is the story of one of our greatest presidents, Abraham Lincoln. Not many people know that Lincoln was a racist individual. But despite of this, Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves for political and moral reasons, and this turned out to be one of the great changes in our country's history.

Batman does have feelings of vengeance and anger because of his childhood, but helps Gotham despite all of this. Furthermore, Batman has every motivation against good, to do evil, but goes against this, and fights crime, not because he is fighting against evil, but because he is fighting for good. Also, as said above, Clark Kent was raised by two farmers of modest means and becomes a good person, whereas, Bruce Wayne became a good person without any parental guidance.

2. Stranger

As said, Superman has no obligation to help the people of earth, which is true, and he also has no reason to go against the people of earth. On the other hand, Batman has no obligation to help his people, but has every reason to go against them, because they betrayed him in the past. The fact that Batman spends his fortune fighting for the people of Gotham who betrayed him is far greater than someone who has no pull toward either side.

3. Harm being done

It is said that Batman breaks the law and is a criminal, which is true. Batman goes outside the law to do the right thing and to ultimately do good things for people. Instead of letting things happen, Batman does break less punishable laws, to stop dangerous criminals from breaking serious laws. Batman fights the crime that the law cannot, and ultimately makes things better in society.

Batman is not only a superhero, but he is also a relatable human being. As said in The Dark Knight Rises, "A hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a young boy's shoulders, and telling him the world hadn't ended." The idea is that anybody can do the right thing in life, no matter how extreme or how hard it might be. Whereas the dream of being Superman is out of reach, the dream of being Batman, somebody who does the right thing and helps people, is real for anyone who believes in it.

References (these explain things pretty well)

1. http://popwatch.ew.com...

2. http://www.cracked.com...
Maikuru

Con

I thank Pro for his response. Having read his case and reviewed his arguments in detail, I remain unconvinced. I must continue to negate the resolution that Batman is better than Superman.

Affirmative Case

1. What they’re fighting for

In response to my argument that Superman’s motivation for doing good is more impressive than Batman’s, Pro says that we cannot know what their motivations even are. Let’s clear that up right now:

“Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us. And on my soul, I swear… until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice becomes the reality we all share — I’ll never stop fighting.”
- Superman [1]

“Criminals are a terror. Hearts of the night. I must disguise my terror...My disguise must strike terror. I must be black. Terrible. I must be a creature of the night. Mommy's dead. Daddy's dead. Brucie's dead. I shall become a bat.”
- Batman [2]

Pro seems to agree with these quotes, as he spends his next three paragraphs saying essentially the same thing. According to my opponent, Superman fights because he was raised to “hope for a better life,” whereas Batman fights because his parents were murdered. This is literally exactly what I wrote in Round 1. My point is that Superman’s decision to fight for truth, justice, and peace is far more moral than Batman’s quest to hurt those who hurt him. Pro has not addressed this.

Remember, the whole purpose of this debate is to determine which character - Superman or Batman - has the better claim to being a hero. We aren’t arguing about who would win in a fight, who has saved more lives, or who looks better in tights. It’s about, to use Pro’s words, who is “morally” and “ethically” the better person. When Pro says that motivations don’t matter, he is arguing against his own resolution. The fact that I’ve shown Batman’s motivations to be based on vengeance, hate, and the worst qualities within us doesn’t mean Pro can suddenly change the debate. He either needs to show that Batman’s decision to fight crime is more admirable than Superman’s or concede his case.

2. Stranger in a strange land

I argued that Superman’s decision to help mankind is more telling than that of Batman because Superman is an alien and has no inherent allegiance to Earth or its people. Pro responds by saying that Batman is equally disinclined to help because humans killed his parents. Similarly, humans try to kill Superman every day. Lex Luthor, The Toyman, Metallo...humanity and its villains harm Superman and his loved ones constantly, yet he remains Earth’s mightiest and truest hero. So, while both men have been hurt by humanity, only Superman chooses to defend it for no reason other than the desire to do good.

3. Do no harm

Pro concedes that Batman is a criminal and Superman is not. This is HUGE. My opponent cannot claim Batman as the morally superior hero and simultaneously dismiss his own criminality. He argues that Batman breaks little laws to stop others from breaking big ones, but ignores the magnitude of the charges against him, including child endangerment, murder, attempted murder, and fighting against the same law enforcement he is supposed to assist. The fact that both heroes save lives but only one needs to resort to such wrongdoing immediately and permanently gives Superman the moral high ground.

Rebuttals

1. To be bad, or not to be bad

Pro drops his argument entirely. Again, this is a big deal. According to Pro’s Round 1 case, the fact that Superman has the opportunity and motive to do great wrong, far more wrong than Batman ever could, without any repercussions whatsoever should be reason enough for him to do so. Of course, he chooses to do the exact opposite and sacrifice his well-being time and time again for others. Superman overcoming his capacity for evil is a far more impressive feat than Batman overcoming human laziness.

2. Anyone can be Batman

Pro’s new argument is that Batman is more relatable than Superman. First of all, that’s debatable. People may not have special powers, but they also cannot do all the feats Batman does on a daily basis. If they could, we’d obviously see men in capes roaming the rooftops by now. Secondly, Superman’s message is no more foreign than Batman’s. They both are essentially fighting bad guys, but one does it to help the innocent and the other does it to punish the guilty. If Pro wishes to support a hero that real life people can look up to, he’d be better off backing the man who is loved, admired, and fights in the sunlight over the guy who is feared, alone, and lurks in the shadows.

3. Pro’s sources

Pro provides two links: one about Batman being richer than Superman and the other showing a poll where people voted for their favorite hero. Until my opponent explains their presence, his links are irrelevant.

References

1. http://tinyurl.com...
2. http://tinyurl.com...
Debate Round No. 2
byrdmanryan

Pro

byrdmanryan forfeited this round.
Maikuru

Con

This is how my 40th debate ends: Not with a bang, but with a forfeit.

There isn't much left to say. I spent last round dismantling my opponent's arguments and those that he did not already concede now stand conceded via forfeit. All else being equal, the fact that Batman commits crimes while in costume and acts for selfish, violent reasons makes him morally inferior to Superman, who is guilty of no such criminality and fights selflessly for his adopted world.

With that, please enjoy these How I Met Your Mother bloopers. If you've stuck around this long, lord knows you deserve them.

Thanks for reading!

;
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by ishallannoyyo 3 years ago
ishallannoyyo
No Maikuru, you've got it all wrong. Batman wins, because he's Batman.
Posted by Maikuru 3 years ago
Maikuru
I posted How I Met Your Mother bloopers. I should be getting straight 7's, son!

Seriously, thank you to everyone for reading and voting =)
Posted by Maikuru 3 years ago
Maikuru
Some people see two hours left to post and think the other person is going to forfeit. I just think they're writing one hell of a response.
Posted by Maikuru 3 years ago
Maikuru
Batman has the better track record between the two, but I think it was in the Hush arc that he admits that Superman could kill him if he so chose.
Posted by Frandwell_the_Red 3 years ago
Frandwell_the_Red
Interesting thing, though, Batman has defeated Superman multiple times(see here: http://forums.comicbookresources.com...).
Posted by Maikuru 3 years ago
Maikuru
Eh, who cares about elo, am I right?

Thank you for this opportunity to debate, ryan. I look forward to it.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 3 years ago
1Devilsadvocate
byrdmanryanMaikuruTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: F.F.
Vote Placed by RyuuKyuzo 3 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
byrdmanryanMaikuruTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Supes wins again
Vote Placed by Clash 3 years ago
Clash
byrdmanryanMaikuruTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con successfully refuted Pro's claim that Batman is better than superman, and Pro forfeited his last round. Thus, the argument and conduct point goes to Con.