Batman is the best DC comics hero
Debate Rounds (5)
I believe that Batman is the best hero from DC comics. This debate has been on my mind for a while now but now it's actually real.
First round: Acceptance. My first argument will be in round II.
As usually, no profanity is allowed.
Nor any rude behavior or insults
ORIGIN. Batman has a more in-depth story than most DC heroes do. His parents were killed when he was a young boy, so he swears to avenge them by training in martial arts with some of the best martial artists in the world.
TOOLS. Batman has enough tools to do practically anything. Let's look at the contents of his utility belt:
Batarangs: A useful tool in combat and for long-distance damage.
Grapple gun: This allows him to get to higher distances and further distances.
Cryptographic Sequencer: This allows him to hack into any computer.
Bolas: When thrown at the feet of an oppenent, they get wrapped up in an unbreakable cord.
Handcuffs: It's quite obvious what they do.
Tracers: These can track any enemy's location, meaning that no criminal is safe.
Smoke Pellets: When thrown, the room becomes shrouded in smoke.
Gas Pellets: Similar to the smoke ones, but release gas with special effects.
Line Launcher: Provides a tightrope like line to get Batman across large gaps.
Tranquilizer Gun: Shoots darts capable of knocking victims unconscious.
Goo Globules: When thrown, they encase the victim in a sticky substance.
Lock Pick: A pick that allows Batman to get through nearly any locked door or system.
Rebreather: Allows Batman to breathe underwater or in a vaccuum.
Laser: A small minituarized laser used as a cutting tool.
Rotary saw: Used to cut through objects.
Plastic Explosive Grenades: Used to knock down walls via strong explosions.
Mines: These can blast down concrete walls.
Kryptonite: Used to defend off a raging Superman.
As you can see from the above things, Batman can do pretty much anything.
SKILLS. Batman's intellinge is a lot higher than an average adult male, and his fighting skills are among the highest in the whole DC universe. He even once beat Superman:
and that was without even using any Kryptonite. MORE NEXT ROUND!!!
Origin: I think we should start with Superman. Batman lost his parents, but Superman also lost his parents, AND his entire home planet. He then is found by Martha and Johnathan Kent. They name him Clark Kent, he eventually discovers his powers, and he decides to use them for good.
Now let's look at his powers and abilities:
Superhuman strength: He can lift virtually anything, has been shown to move planets, and if I remember correctly he was able to punch a hole through the time dimension to travel into the future. It is generally accepted that he is the strongest being the the DC universe when he has been fueled by the sun.
Invulnerability: Superman is able to withstand extreme temperatures (as in he entered the freaking sun and wasn't harmed) and also withstood Darkseid's omega beams. He also has an extremely slow aging process, which can be slowed down even more by used the sun's energy.
Healing: Superman has been shown to be able to heal himself when it comes to most things. His healing power is increased in the sun.
Flying: He has the ability to defy Earth's gravity and fly. The explanation for this is that he has anti-gravity organs.
Superhuman speed: He can run, fly, and react faster than a speeding bullet. His running speed has been shown to be on par with Flash, and has been able to move through space faster than light. This would make him the fastest superhero.
X-ray vision: I don't believe I need to explain how cool this is.
Superhuman intelligence: Superman has beyond genius levels of intelligence, which may in fact make him smarter than Batman. In sunlight his brain can work faster than a supercomputer.
Perfect memory: Simply he can just remember everything.
Heat vision: He is able to disintegrate a person by using said heat vision, as it produces a high energy beam that superman can control very well. He is also able to use it as Clark Kent, since it is invisible.
Superhuman breath: He is able to inhale and exhale extreme amounts of air. In one story Superman couldn't touch the ground, as doing so would cause explosive orbs would come from the ground endangering everyone around him. His solution was to constantly exhale from his nose so he could be millimeters off the ground at all times. This same breath can also be used to freeze enemies, as it can be cooled down very much.
Superhuman hearing: He can hear more frequencies, and can hear at far greater distances.
Superhuman vision: He can see wavelengths humans can't see, he can see much farther than humans.
Master Combatant: This one is somewhat debatable, as he doesn't have combat prowess in every comic. However he has been shown to have it in certain comics.
Even Batman admits that if Superman didn't go easy on them, he could destroy them all.
Here is a source of all his superpowers: http://en.wikipedia.org...
And his origin story:
As you can see Superman's abilities are far greater than the Dark Knight.
I thank Con for his response. In this rebuttal, I will be mentioning Con's said abilities of Superman and counter them with something of Batman or just a plain counter against it.
Superhuman Strength: This power is not one that is needed amongst heroes. From DC, many other heroes have done perfectly fine with normal strength. These heroes include Batman, Flash, All the Batgirls, Green Arrow, Nightwing, Catwoman, and many more.
Invulnerability: Another ability that heroes don't need. You say that Superman has ability to resist Darkseid's Omega Beams, and that is true, however, Batman once defeated Darkseid by himself, and that image will be provided below. Batman also flipped Hulk over and sparta-kicked him in the chest in the DC vs. Marvel miniseries. That image will also be shown below.
Healing: Batman's healing does not come naturally, but he has been both shot and stabbed numerous times and still recovered like a pro. Batman's butler, Alfred, is highly trained in the medical field and fixes up Bruce every time he is injured. Even sometimes, Batman can fix himself up with his own medical skills and tools.
Flying: Batman cannot LITERALLY fly, but his bat-wing-like cape allows him to glide long distances. His grapple gun can reach so far away that it is like he is flying.
Superhuman Speed: This is also not a necessary power for a hero. For Batman has been very successful with only normal human speed. Plus, the Flash, the most well-known super speedster, is afraid of Batman. That image will also be provided. Sorry for the image overload. Lol.
X-Ray vision: It does not matter how "cool" it is. What matters is how good it is in combat and how good its uses are. And last time I checked, seeing your opponent as a skeleton with no clothes on isn't all that useful.
Superhuman Intelligence: I don't remember seeing any instance of Superman showing higher intelligence than Bats. You say that in sunlight his brain can work faster than a supercomputer. Batman HAS supercomputers.
Perfect Memory: I don't remember this being displayed for Superman either. However, Batman indeed has a great memory. Refer to his memories of the night his parents were murdered. Plus, his memory doesn't matter if he forgets something. If he does, he can just find the enemy or the location with his Supercomputers or his Tracers.
Heat Vision: This is not necessary, either. Batman has grenades and explosives that can work just as well, if not better, than Superman's heat vision.
Superhuman Breath: These same abilities can be used by Batman's Rebreather and his Ice-Arangs or whatever they're called.
Superhuman Hearing: Excellent hearing does not matter for Batman. He has the computers and tracers to track every movement a target makes.
Superhuman Vision: This also doesn't matter. Again, Batman has the computers that can be used to find the weaknesses in nearly any enemy.
Master Combatant: Are you kidding me? Batman beat Darkseid by himself and freaking flipped the Hulk over.
As you can see the Dark Knight's abilities are equal, if not greater to Superman's.
Batman pwns Darkseid.
Batman pwns The Hulk
Flash is afraid of Batman.
Superhuman Strength: You say heroes don't need it and that is true. Heroes don't need. But it definitely makes a hero better. Let's say we have two completely equal heroes, except one has superhuman strength and the other doesn't Obviously the one with Superhuman Strength will be the better hero because he will be better adapted to more situations he gets into.
Invulnerability: Same argument as above, but I will admit that Batman did defeat darkseid without a resistance to his beams. However a resistance would definitely be helpful in defeating him, making Superman better adapted.
Healing: Alfred's great doctoral skills wouldn't be useful in the middle of a firefight. However I concede that Batman is perfectly capable of bandaging himself up. But superman doesn't need to stop and do it.
Flying: Batman does glide. Just not nearly as fast as superman can fly. Superman has been shown to fly as fast, and faster, than the speed of light. I'm pretty sure Batman can't glide that fast.
Superhuman speed: See Superhuman strength argument. And Flash being afraid of Batman is logical, as Batman is better than Flash in multiple ways. But Flash isn't Superman.
X-ray vision- Actually it could come in handy. It serves a tactical purpose as you could easy see through buildings, and locate enemies. And by locating enemies you can make a better plan on how to beat them.
Superhuman Intelligence: This one is a bit shaky I admit, because after the Silver Age of Comics they made Superman a bit dumber. But even now he is still a kryptonian, and kryptonians have an intelligence that is better than humans.
Perfect Memory: Superman did indeed have perfect memory. It is part of why he is able to learn new technologies very fast (that and he comes from a alien race with very advanced technology.
Heat Vision: See Superhuman strength argument. And grenades and explosions work well, but it affects a larger area (therefore putting innocents in danger) and is easily noticeable. Superman's heat vision can be invisible (except at much higher energy levels) and is very precise. It is in fact precise to the molecule, as Superman is able to work on objects at the molecular level with his heat vision. A grenade certainly won't do that.
Superhuman Breath: They are equal with this ability.
Superhuman Hearing: Equal here as well
Superhuman Vision: Equal again.
Master Combatant: Batman is also a master combatant, and I will agree that Batman knows his a way around a fight more than superman. However that is not to say Superman isn't a very skilled fighter. My inclusion of this follows this logic:
Say we have two fighters, and there are two variables that will determine the fight.
Fighter 1 is strong in one, weak in the other.
Fighter 2 is average in both.
As you can see it averages out to both of them equal. However let's say that second variable is combat prowess. Just because Batman may be strong does not mean that Superman is weak. Superman would then be average.
Batman can perform many abilities that Superman can. Just not as good. Therefore Superman is the superior superhero.
For the sake of this debate, I will only counter some of your arguments, then I will provide more reasons why Batman is the best. First of all, your arguments seem to be only trying to prove Superman's superiority in only the category of strength and abilities. These attributes are not the only ones needed to become the best hero.
VILLAINS: Batman's villains are more realistic than most other DC Villains. These villains are also the most popular, and are very famous for their horror-like base. The Joker is perhaps the most insane evil-minded person in the DC Universe. Refer to the miniseries The Dark Knight Returns, where The Joker runs through a carnival, killing absolutely EVERYONE he can.
FAMILY: Batman has a rather large bat-family, consisting of well-known allies such as Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Oracle, Huntress, Red Robin, Batwoman, Red Hood, Black Bat, and more. Batman can call these allies for help almost all the time, thus giving Batman more strength with all the allies he has. But with Superman, there isn't really a Super-Family. All there is is Superman, Superboy, and Supergirl.
POPULARITY: Superman is arguably more well-known than Batman, but Batman has a bigger fanbase. Superman has had the following movies: Superman, Superman II, Superman III, Superman IV, Superman Returns, and Man of Steel. Batman has had the following movies: Batman: The Movie, Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises. As you can see, I am only counting movies that were released in theaters and were in color. Superman did have a movie called Superman & The Mole Men, however this doesn't count because it wasn't modern enough to be in color. Also, Batman's movies have much better overall ratings than Superman's movies do. Let's compare the Dark Knight Rises to Man of Steel: TDKR: 8.6/10. Man of Steel: 7.7/10. It is obvious from this tha people liked TDKR more. Now, we shall compare The Dark Knight to Superman Returns: The Dark Knight: 9.0/10, Superman Returns: 6.2/10. These ratings were taken from IMDB, and as you can see, Batman's two most recent movies have done far better than Superman's two most recent movies.
My arguments have been trying to prove Superman's superiority in strength and abilities, because he IS superior in strength and abilities. But you are right, it's not all you need to be the best hero.
You bring up the subject of villains first. And while there is no denying that Batman's adversaries are horrific, and gruesome. But Superman's arch nemesis, Lex Luthor, is the better villain in my opinion. Lex Luthor has better resources, is much smarter, and is very hard to distinguish as a villain at times. The Joker is obviously a villain, and it's hard to ever portray him as good. But Lex Luthor has moments where he is absolutely right. He wants to stop superman, because superman he believes will lead humans to self-reliance and they will become dumb. He sees himself as a hero, and so does most of the world. He has a much more global impact on the world than joker does, as joker really only affects Gotham, where batman takes care of him. Lex Luthor can influence the entire world. He was even elected president. Lex will do anything to take down superman, no matter what the cost. And it is tragic because of all the good he can be doing, as he is shown to be quite a genius. I give joker credit with being the more chaotic of the two. But Lex is just a more influential, multidimensional, and more tragic of a villain.
You go on to talk about family, and allies of batman. Before I go on with my examples I would like to point out that Batgirl and Oracle are the same person. They are both Barbara Gordon, therefore it is somewhat misleading to lead them as two different people. Supergirl and Superboy are Superman's most prominent allies. However there is also the superman squad, which is a team of heroes set out to follow superman's example. There is also Steel, a former weapons manufacturer turned good after he finds his weapons in use by a terrorist cell. We could Lois Lane could be part of this family, as she does become superman's wife.
You then argue popularity. However this is hard to distinguish. You admit Superman is a more iconic superhero, and that is true. Superman is the superhero. But then you go on to list movie ratings as evidence that Batman is the more popular of the two characters. I do not believe that movies can justify a character's popularity, as some movies are much better made than others. I will admit that currently Batman seems to be the more popular of the two heroes. But overall Superman has been more popular. Superman is a cultural icon, the image of a superhero. However to make this argument better I ask you if you know the sales of both comic books. I cannot seem to find it, and if you happen to know that would be greatly appreciated. I would like to base this popularity debate not only on recent movies, but the popularity of its comic books over the years.
According to the Superhero Database (DB), Joker and Lex's intelligence are equal. Their strength and speed are also exactly equal. However, Joker is superior in durability, power, and combat. I assume these stats for Lex are taken by his abilities without his power suit. And if you are going to argue that this will show that it takes uneccessary power-points away from Lex, let me just remind you: Joker also has power-suits. Most villains have times when they are absolutely right, or they think that they are doing the right thing. Take Marvel's Magneto for example. I can't argue against your only-Gotham thing. But I can argue against your tragic-thing. I don't know much about Lex's origin, but Joker's is very tragic. He was a comedian that told jokes that no one would laugh at. His pregnant wife, carrying a child, dies. Then the Joker (Jack Napier, perhaps?), decides to do just one crime, to get his anger out. However, during said crime, Joker is confronted by the then-new vigilante Batman. Batman accidentally pushes Joker (as Red Hood I) into a vat of acid. This particular acid permanently stains his skin white, his hair green, and his lips red. The acid also drives him to complete insanity. If that origin isn't tragic, I don't know what is.
Batgirl and Oracle are not the same person. Batgirl is currently Stephanie Brown. Oracle is Barbara Gordon. This is obviously not misleading, because your statement was false. You argue that Lois Lane is part of Superman's family. She is, but not in the way I mean. By family I mean a supporting group of other heroes that are in a not-related "Family". The Bat-Family is credited to be a real team in comics, and the Super-Team isn't.
I don't believe that movie ratings can prove a characters popularity either. I was just showing that more people like Batman's movies over Superman's. This is not just about movies either. With video games, Superman hasn't had a big-console game for quite a while. Whereas Batman has had a lot and has a VERY popular series that is still running. These games are Arkham Asylum and Arkham City. But let's not forget the forthcoming games, Arkham Origins and Arkham Origins: Blackgate. No I can't find any comic book ratings.
The following image has profanity in it, so I apologize. But here it is:
Don't watch the video until you finish reading the whole thing so you understand why it's there.
In stats the Joker would be better, but don't forget that Lex Luthor has massive resources, and isn't on the run from the police. This allows him much greater freedom in what he is able to do. Also I would like to point out that the same website points out that Superman would destroy Batman. Batman only beats Superman in combat, and only by 16 points. They share the same intelligence. But then Superman far outmatches him in every other stat. And yes some villains believe they are the hero, and sometimes they believe they are absolutely right. But my point with L.L. is that he is fighting for a cause that is somewhat hard to argue with. Joker kills people, and that's bad. He likes to kill people. Lex wants to protect the world, because he percieves Superman as a threat. Most villains see the hero in their way, but Lex Luthor sees Superman in the world's way, and believes he is saving them. That is why his story is tragic, as he is the only (self-percieved) hero that never wins. Joker does have a more tragic origin though.
I'm sorry, as I recalled the stories Oracle was batgirl until a fatal injury forced her to stop. However I looked it up and I see this has changed. However you assert there is no Superman Squad. There is indeed such a squad. Here are two sites that seem to agree with me.
Since you were not able to find any comic book ratings either I will concede this to you. Batman seems to have grown more popular in recent years. However I still maintain that Superman was more popular for the longest time before that, and he is still more iconic of a superhero.
Here is my conclusion based on all the points brought up in this debate.
1. Origin- Batman's parents are killed, which leads to him being orphaned and bent of stopping crime. Superman's entire home planet, including his parents, blows up, which orphans him. He grows up learning of his superpowers and decides to use his powers for good.
2. Powers/abilities- Batman has many tools and gadgets which do many things (refer to pro's list in R2) and superman has a plethora of powers and abilities (see my own list in R2). I believe I have proved that superman's equal, and exceed Batman's own abilities and tools.
3. Batman's villains are horrific, and are easily defined as evil. The Joker has a very tragic background. Superman's arch nemesis Lex Luthor is a colorful character with a good side to his evil, and views himself as a hero to the world, and it is believable. He also is extremely smart, and is one of the most powerful people in the world, at one time he managed to achieve presidency. I believe this shows that Lex Luthor is a more dynamic character than Joker, who's only goal is chaotic destruction.
4. Batman has a very large family, with well-known allies. However so does Superman, as he has Supergirl, Superboy, and the Superman Squad.
5. Batman is much more popular right now, due maybe to the recent Batman movies, and a perhaps changes in opinion. However Superman is more iconic of a superhero, and was much more popular in years past. I would say this makes Superman more popular, but this is one point that I believe is opinionated.
Overall therefore Superman is a better superhero than Batman.
I thought your picture was pretty hilarious. I also found this video hilarious:
It's essentially what would happen if Superman was to come help Batman with Gotham problems. But it is a joke video, just for laughs.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Mikal 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: I think this debate is quite simply fun to read lol. It is almost impossible to vote on this debate being bias but I will. Both competitors offered up strong evidence to support what the believe However since Pro states Batman is the best ever he then gets the BOP, All Con must then do is offer up an argument to make that faulty. He does not even have to pick a superhero, he just must convince us that Batman is not the Best which he did a reasonably good job with Since both arguments were sound, I am basing this debate off of one sentence. Pro states Batman has the biggest fan base, I do not believe this to be correct and with my experience could probably provide sources to prove so. Since Pro offered no sources to validate this point, this breaks down some of his ability to convince me of his original statement. Just by that Con gets arguments, other wise it would have been a tie
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