The Instigator
nohandlebars
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Cheetah
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points

Becoming a dancer or singer should be encouraged just as much as a doctor or lawyer.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Cheetah
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/24/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,018 times Debate No: 42931
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (3)

 

nohandlebars

Con

Hi, still kind of a noob at this website, so if I make any casual mistakes, please forgive.

Anyways, to be an actor you have to have luck and put in a lot of effect. Its not as easy as it seems. Less than 2% of the us population [http://startupunion.wordpress.com...] is an actor. How are you going to become a 2%?

Encouraging becoming a doctor or a lawyer, you can always succeed by how much effort you put in.

~~just a starting argument~~
Cheetah

Pro

Hi, NoHandleBars, looks like we have about the same level of experience on this site. This will be an interesting debate. I would like to apologize that it took me so long to post for this round, I spilled water on my laptop and just got it fixed!


First of all, I may go broader than just being a singer or a dancer; or a doctor or a lawyer, if Con wishes to take the grounds of just these four occupations, please say so and I may limit my arguments based on those four careers.


I would like to wish my opponent best of luck and I look forward to a respectful and productive debate. Please check my footnotes for further comments, definitions, and citations. I shall now present my arguments for the first round.


ROUND 1


Career decision comes in at a early stages after an individual’s physiological development that lasts into adulthood. As a former student of Psychology, I may mention some learning and cognitive theories that influences an individual’s decision-making.


(1) Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic Motivations and Career-planning


Passion is a strong driving force to almost everything we do and every thought we make. Where does passion come from? Passion is built on desire and both intrinsic and extrinsic motivations. As to argue my stance, effective motivations comes chiefly from intrinsic motivations rather than extrinsic motives [1]. A person (not necessary a child or a teen) may be passionate on subjects that differ from what is required to be a doctor or a lawyer. Since middle school and up until now, I hate maths, I have absolutely no pleasure doing maths or related subjects, what is ironic is that my father, who is a civil engineer, encourages me to major in some sort of engineering since my earliest memories. Encouraging your child to take a certain career path can often create stress and its end result may completely backfire and create new problems such as anxiety and even depression. I will not argue that one should not aim for more monetary-rewarding and extrinsic careers such as a lawyer or a doctor, but encouragement should be done to reinforce an intrinsic passion and support a person’s career decision to their success.


(2) Psychological Stress, abilities, and Unrealistic Expectations


I have said in my previous point that I hate maths and still ironically going for Industrial Engineering, I cannot emphasize how much stress I suffered so far and I can only suggest to high school freshmen to take courses that lead to careers that they like. People are not created equally, not everyone have the potential to become doctors and lawyers. Many students cannot bear the stress that adheres to the subject or simply cannot handle the responsibilities that come with it. Doctor and Lawyer are both extremely stressful subjects and extreme responsibility is needed. If you are a doctor, you have a patient’s life on the line and if you are a lawyer defending defendant, his property and even life can depend on your skills.


“Encouraging becoming a doctor or a lawyer, you can always succeed by how much effort you put in.”


This is not true, students diagnosed with dyslexia [2], for example, simply cannot study law as effectively as other classmates no matter how much effort they put in. You may say, “well, a person with dyslexia obviously shouldn’t be encouraged,” or “I meant healthy people should be encouraged…” but my point still stands, not everyone can handle the same level of stress nor handle the same types of studies.


(3) There is a Steep and Slippery Slope from Success, to Moderate success, and Total Failure


What are the chances of you being a famous Actor? Probably slim. What are the chances of you becoming a renowned doctor? Probably just as slim. Becoming a doctor does not guarantee financial or career success. Performers who are registered to the SAG-AFTRA [3] represents a small portion of the whole acting and singing population, these people are the finest selection and have a strong talent and passion in acting much like a literary canon. There are actors who are not registered in the SAG-AFTRA but are great and famous performers (perhaps even greater) as much as there are books that are more interesting than those in the literary canon. If one is not motivated enough to perform they may not be at the top of the game, this is about the same ratio of doctors who have their own talk shows or lawyers who have their own judge _(name here)_ shows.


(4) Career Specialization – Concluding argument


In the diverse world, society needs people with different talents and skills in order to form a complete and content society. We cannot have everyone become doctors since encouragements are sometimes ineffective given certain circumstances and it is unrealistic (as mentioned in the first and second point). We need singers, actors, dancers as to accommodate in the society as entertainers as much as we need healers and law specialists, even artists have a place in society. Even siblings have different strengths and limitations, the younger brother may be better at computers than his older sister, and one may have interest in history rather than biology. Given this, encouragements should be done to reinforce special talents and skills.


Footnotes:





    • [1] David Myers’s Psychology Textbook






Debate Round No. 1
nohandlebars

Con

Yes I agree that we should go broader than a singer, dancer doctor and lawyer. Please only base only along the lines of a high educated career, (doctor, lawyer, dentist, fire fighter, soldier, airplane pilot etc) vs a career that may have require much education such a singer, dancer, stripper, cook, cashier. If you have any other ideas or suggestions, please list them.

"Encouraging your child to take a certain career oath can often create stress and it end result may completely backfire and create new problems such as anxiety and even depression."

Sure, some parent/child relationships may have complications. I argue that it 'often' does. I think that parents often confuse the lines between 'encourage' 'nag' and 'command.' I think that's what you're doing right now. Encouraging, providing perhaps for a successful career that will blossom into a successful career path even. The definition of encouragement is to give support, confidence, or hope to (someone). That does not cause stress, anxiety or depression.

I looked up the definition to monetary-rewarding and extrinsic. My vocabulary is not as advanced as yours. So thank you for giving me the opportunity to improve it. I see that monetary-means commerce, money. So it means Money rewarding. I agree, doctors, lawyers and judges earn a high salary. Extrinsic means not forming an essential or inherent part of a thing; extraneous.

Why do you think being a doctor or a lawyer isn't essential to society? Without a doctor, you'd be terribly sick. You wouldn't have your shots to keep you healthy, you might not have even had a safe labor. Not to mention that over the years you may have broken limbs, got sick or anything. Doctors are one of the most important contributions to society. If you haven't been cured by doctors, what about friends and relatives? Since doctors aren't essential, your friends could have died, or even never existed. You, yourself could have never existed because most likely somewhere in your family tree a family member would have been needed to be treated by a doctor. Doctors are one of the MOST ESSTENICAL contributors in our society, if not, the most important contributor. Lawyers? Lawyer justify, Judges justify. Without justice how would our society run? We would have criminals roaming the streets and innocent people behind bars. Without justice, the constitution would have been different, laws, functions, cultures would be different. Without justice we could have a British flag in our yard.

How can you say that being a doctor and a lawyer is not essential to our society? Without them in our society, literally, the entire world would crumple into bits and pieces. We'd be eaten by disease, be above our heads in debt...the list is unimaginable on what we'd do without them. If you say that they are not essential, how can you back that up, and still support dancers and singers? Dancers and singers are for entertainment. Without them, we'd probably have less jobs, (or more doctors and lawyers) and maybe some of us wouldn't have some hobbies.

You say you will not argue that you shouldn't aim for careers that will support you for life, so what exactly are you picking the pro side in this debate?

******

Sure, you've suffered stress. I'm sorry that your dad forced you into a good career. But it's not just you. I'm not sure if you picked this debate because it interferes with your personal life or not. Just for advice in the future, don't do that, you'll lose. I say this because perhaps you have suffered imaginable stress and anxiety and depression and blah blah blah, but others have succeeded, become leaders and lead to a great life. Good things don't come easily, they take hard work. Do you think that Dr. Robert White, [transplanted the first monkey head lol] succeed by trying his hardest and hoping for the best? That's what parents say to failures. I don't know him personally, him, and doctors and lawyers that he represents, he didn't just do that. He worked imaginably hard, he probably gave up a couple of times, and it probably burst his bubble on more than one occasion. Yes, maybe you'll fail, but that comes with every career/job path.

Yes, I know that people are not created equally. Some people cannot rise to such important roles. Why not? Why cannot they not become doctors? Potential means having or showing the capacity to become or develop into something in the future. So if you encourage, support and provide for somebody on an important career choice (not just lawyers or doctors or dentists, but along those lines) Why can they not arise to that goal? Maybe their fail. Yes. But being an actor and dancer requires potential, it has stress and extreme responsibility. Maybe not on the lines of life or death, but it's along the lines of career or no career, job or no job. You can be hanging on the edge, unemployed for weeks or even months.

Students diagnosed with dyslexia have a disability that makes it difficult to read or write. Obviously they cannot be doctors. They can't be actors or dancers either. You're being very rude for putting words in my mouth it makes you appear very self absorbed and sensitive. Simply make your points please with little or no hostility.

"Not everybody can handle the same level of stress or handle the same types of studies."

This is a two way street. Sure they can't handle doctors, so try justice or teeth. Maybe they can't handle acting or dancing. Lindsey Lohan, Brittney Spears, Charlie Sheen, or Eminem are all stressed to the point of breaking. [not suggesting that all stressed singers/actors resolve to drugs]

*********

Why do you have to be a renowned doctor? Please, not everybody wants to be famous. Sure, some doctors or fire fighters do get publicity, but [usually] that's not their goal. Their goal is to do their job, the same as actresses and actors.

Please explain what a SAG-AFTRA or try not to plagiarize so obviously. Also point out where that matters, at all.

Also please explain how taking the role of a doctor does not guarantee financial or career success?

'....there are books that are more interesting than those in the literary canon.'
I insist that you stick on the topic. We're not here discussing if reading about doctors or actors is more interesting. Besides, you should probably consult with those how like medical documentaries, or perhaps the millions of books that have been sold of miracle saves from fires. As I say, it's a two way street. Not everybody likes pornography from singers.

Why does it matter if doctors who have their own talk shows matter? I can read other books, but I'm here for this debate you need to work no sticking to the point or writing why it matters.

********

Why do we need entertainers? Some people should be entertainers, yes. But it shouldn't be encouraged nearly as much as something that can guarantee support. But years ago, there wasn't a T.V, and nobody needed the Kardashians. They had theaters and dancers, but this was unsuccessful. What successful authors, and graphic designers. Perhaps a slight amount of TV is healthy, but we don't need actresses getting paid to show the nation their boobs on MTV.

Yes, family members do have different strengths, and limitations. Why does this only apply to doctors? What about the limitations of acting? How demanding it may be, the different roles and request that are made?

So, encouragement can be made on different skills. There are diverse, SUCCESSFUL careers that lay out in the world, not just in comic books and nachos.
Cheetah

Pro

Thank you for posting but I fear that you may have misunderstand something. If you are going to argue that Higher-Educated careers should be suggested then I would definitely lose, this would be a one-sided, do you agree? I will clarify my position again, “I agree that a more archiving career should be suggested to a child at early stage to increase interest in that particular subject, however, if the person whom is subjected to your encouragement does not prefer going in that career path strongly or moderately, you should encourage him / her into the career of their choice, not only doctor, lawyers, etc.” I will now present my arguments.


Again, please check my footnotes for further comments and citations.


FROM LAST ROUND - Con’s arguments and rebuttals


(1) Encouragement

First of, con, mentioned that encouragement does not cause anxiety or stress, this is not always true. Although encouragement can give short-term effects and pleasures and often makes the subject overestimate their own abilities, even with discretion a person may find him/herself aiming for extraordinary high goals. THIS leads to depression when the objective goal is not archived.


(2) Extrinsic and Intrinsic

I believe you got your definition from this? (http://www.thefreedictionary.com...) [1]

This is NOT the definition I am talking about, I apologize if I did not give a clear definition for this. This is merely a common definition and not a scientific one, here is the definition I am talking about:

(http://psychology.about.com...) [2]

Here, the author gives an explicit example of each and vividly distinguish their difference from common terms.


(3) Unnecessary Doctors and Lawyers?

I do not even have the word ‘essential’ in my previous post, and most definitely not “not essential” is said by me. I have no idea why you are accusing me of even thinking for a second that a doctor or lawyer is not an essential role to the society. As for the “British flag in our backyard” part, I am quite familiar with the revolutionary war and Lawyers play a minor role to American independence when compared to other roles that sparked the revolution. But this is irrelevant to the topic.


(4) Next point

Sure, you've suffered stress. I'm sorry that your dad forced you into a good career. But it's not just you. I'm not sure if you picked this debate because it interferes with your personal life or not.”


He did not force me, my motivations did that for me. Please don’t try to manipulate my words. What you are trying to say here is that that I struggled and got in Engineering and I should be grateful for it. However, this academic success and is a facade considering that I am struggling with it.


“...Just for advice in the future, don't do that, you'll lose”


Please give me some respect, I do not usually give personal experience to anybody. I only did this to clearly explain the Incentive Theory of Motivation with an understandable scenario. Since I assume that you do not take psychology I didn’t want to throw you vocabs and theories and sound like a snob. I will try to do a more definitive approach next time but thank you for reminding me.


“Yes, I know that people are not created equally. Some people cannot rise to such important roles. Why not? Why cannot they not become doctors?”


You mention at the next sentences that you would still encourage them towards careers such as doctors and lawyers and “along those lines” even when they show no interest in it. Actors require a lot of stress handling and skill potential, that is true, but it is incomparable with the amount of stress from being a surgeon, for example, all occupations require some level of stress, especially stress from expectations.


“Students diagnosed with dyslexia have a disability that makes it difficult to read or write. Obviously they cannot be doctors.”


Please understand that dyslexia is not a ‘off or on’ switch, “Dyslexia!” or “not Dyslexia!” there are different intensities to it, this means that one who has difficulties reading can also suffer from dyslexia but is not diagnosed with it.


“You're being very rude for putting words in my mouth it makes you appear very self absorbed and sensitive. Simply make your points please with little or no hostility.”


The only one being rude here is you, I meant no offence or whatsoever, I have said in the first round “...and I look forward to a respectful and productive debate.” and I have kept my promise so far. If “putting words in my mouth” means that I am shoving you vocabs to intimidate you, then you are wrong on this one. I did not mean any offense nor try to intimidate you, I simply though the term “dyslexia” is taught and commonly known. Here is a good article:

[3] http://www.medicinenet.com...


Con called me “self absorbed and sensitive,” manipulated my words, accusing me of “obviously plagiarizing” and disrespected me for giving an clarifying scenario. Is it me or is it the speaker who is being hostile?


---

Here’s a friendly mini-break from the tension of this debate :)


“Why is the scientist’s head all wet?”

- Because he had a brainstorm


ba-dum-tsss


Now back to the debate.

---

(5) “I insist that you stick on the topic. We're not here discussing if reading about doctors or actors is more interesting

I am not going off-topic here. I am simply making an analogy from normal (private stage shows) actors from professional (hollywood) actors and actresses with books in the canon and regular, common books. In case you don’t know what a canon is, I apologize again that I did not provide a definition for this. A literary canon are a group of valued books and writings that are distinguishable from other books and is proved to have more literary value. For example, Of Mice and Men may be more valued than books like The Hunger Games. The way hollywood works is about the same, less famous actors are not part of the SAG-AFTRA community which consists of around 100,000+ performers (numbers are not exact). Are there more performers than a couple hundred thousand people? Yes there are, just like there are more books than ones in the literary canon.


You requested that I explain what SAG-AFTRA is so here’s the link to their official website:

[4] http://www.sagaftra.org...

If you go a quick google search you will find it the same way I did, so please don’t denounce me as a plagiarist since this information can be easily found.


“nobody needed the Kardashians”

haha, good one :)


“But it shouldn't be encouraged nearly as much as something that can guarantee support.”


In fact, you mentioned that 2% of the United States population is an actor. I am actually quite surprised, actually that it is that high considering how many other occupations there is. The thing I forgot to mention in the previous round is about that particular statistic: where does blog gets its statistics from? Performers registered in the SAG-AFTRA is clearly less three hundred thousand (if even that much). Gathering the statistic for the total population of performers is as difficult as how many seashells are there in a beach. Then how did the source find out that it is 2%?


“family members do have different strengths, and limitations. Why does this only apply to doctors? What about the limitations of acting? How demanding it may be, the different roles and request that are made?”


This is similar to your argument to my analogy of performers and books. I only mentioned siblings to emphasize the diversity of people’s interests. Let me restate it, “even siblings have diverse talents and skills, then why should we encourage both to go in a career path that we expect them to choose rather than ask what they like to be?” Again, I am not here to argue that you should encourage people to become actors more than doctors and lawyers or less. My stance is that you should encourage people to go into careers that seems appropriate to their talents. If one have talent in drawing and no interest in maths, by all means encourage them to become an artist; you can suggest that person to become a engineer and you may convince him at first, but it would later psychologically harm him afterwards when he cannot achieve that goal. This works as well if you encourage mathematical geniuses to become actors. Encouragement should be done appropriately and not one-sided.


#END OF REBUTTALS#


If I have offended or disrespected you in any way, I would like to apologize for that. Some of my arguments may seem harsh or rude but it is unintentional!


Round 2 arguments

(1) Incentive theory and Encouragement

This theory mentions inner motivations and external rewards. There are rules based on scientific observations such as: “Rewards have to be obtainable in order to be motivating” [5]. This means that if the objective seems unobtainable or suddenly realised to be more difficult than anticipated can lower intrinsic motivation. In this case, encouragement will derail their goals completely. For example, a student may be motivated to achieve all A’s at the beginning of the year (I’m sure we all can relate) this may be reinforced by parents’ encouragement. This however, have an equal and opposite subconscious reaction as well. If the student finds the new school year to be more much more challenging, their objectives will be undermined to a goal much lower such as “just don’t fail the semester!” What parents should encourage is to encourage self-actualization and identity, finding out what they are good at and let them fulfill their goals themselves.

I am out of characters, I will post further arguments for the next rounds.

Footnotes:

Debate Round No. 2
nohandlebars

Con

Sorry for such a late response.

A high-educated career/job is what I am suggesting. Why do you think this was one-sided? It's higher paid, undesired job vs lower paid more desired job.

(1) Encouragement.

Yes, some people fail in trying to do something great. I love to say, "it's a two way street." and in acting and dancing, one may fail to make the gig. In fact that happens a lot, and many people end up unemployed from weeks and months as I've stated before. Doctor vs dancers both have its pros and cons, and many of the pros and cons are very related. Which makes this debate very opinionated. Being a doctor is very hard, with all the years of education and saving lives. This career choice is obviously very difficult. But people also underestimate being a dancer. Where do you start? You go to school to train. Maybe for a few years, and if you like it, you'll stick with it. Then what? Where do you go after that? There is no guarantee job outside the doors, and somebody has to find it themselves. That somebody might not be ready to deal with something so independent. This could also cause depression.

(2) Extrinsic and Intrinsic

ok that was a really interesting website, but anyhow, how is Extrinsic less than Intrinsic ? In society when you have careers, maybe on some level the career is fun or enjoyable, but it's about doing a career correctly and efficiently, and sometimes that's not always 'fun'. Intrinsic is good, but you might not find that in a career to support you throughout your life. Instead you'll find yourself with a very fun hobby.

(3) The word 'essential' was because of the definition, which was later clarified.

(4) I argue that stress is incomparable from a doctor or lawyer, to a dancer or actor. As I've stated, these choices (dancers) of careers can leave you jobless for weeks, looking for a gig. Actors, dancers, all have to have the desired weight that their boss or director wants. Sometimes they have to lose weight. For example Taylor Lautner had to gain 30 pounds in New moon.

Jennifier Hudson had to lose her baby weight for her new movie and went from a size 16 to a size 6.

Christain Bale, lost 63 pounds to act in the Machinist. He took vitamins to get the nutrition he needed, because he was hardly eating. He over-exercised. This sounds very much like a eating disorder or something bordering that. He was 185 pounds, and lost it until he was 122 pounds, and 6ft tall.

50 cent had to play the role of a cancer patient and lost 54 pounds in 9 weeks.

Janet Jackson only ate an apple and a small bag of chips a day, for a role in a movie.

Dancers have to maintain a certain weight, stay in shape constantly. What if she (if its a she) wants to start a family? What if they become less active? This stress constantly every day is underestimated. The actors work so hard for a role, and then its over, and all the weight gained/lost doesn't even matter. They just look for the next gig and they own up to the expectations to that.
[http://www.health.com...]

The stress from the media?

In school, on the internet on this debate, I hear all about out Phil Robertson said a gay remark to the media and he was suspended from the show. I hear different things about it, how he has the right to free speech etc. I have no idea what he said. I don't watch that show. I even made a poll on if he should be fired, but I still literally have no clue what he said. I just googled "Phil Robertson gay comments" And every single source says "Caused outraged" "fail to understand what it's like to be gay" "Facing serious backslash" "Phil Robertson's Suspension After Racist Anti-Gay Comment."

NO where in the entire page does it actually state what he said. The the media, and (us) people, are giving him b.s for something we don't even know what he said. I mean, I can't be the only one who doesn't know what he said. But if I see "fail to understand" "serious backslash" and "suspension after racist anti-gay comments" Most people are going to be very quick to judge. If I was more na"ve , I would judge.

So I tried a different google search and found what he said.
My honest opinion, what he said about the vagina/anus thing was disrespectful, but the rest was his opinion. He has the right to state his opinion and to suspend him from his show unfair, and not right. Let the media go nuts over it, but it wasn't right to suspend him.

That's not really point, I just had to say that haha. Anyway, when somebody expresses their opinion, it's picked apart into little pieces by media and people. His opinion, got him fired. If one was to keep they're job, they would have to have certain opinions, or have to keep their opinions to themselves or they get twisted around. They are expected to be someone, they might not be. You said that being a doctor or lawyer is being somebody that they're not, but if they enter into the public's spotlight, it'll happen in a different way.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com...]

2004, Johnny depp and Vanessa were in a restaurant. Vanessa was extremely pregnant. So paparazzi went nuts, and they were bombarded. Johnny was trying to be understandable, but with his family and his future child, he asked the paparazzi to give him a break. They responded with "Fu** you" and other things, and Depp and Vanessa had to run into they're car, which is unjustified. The paparazzi shut they're hand in the door so they wouldn't get away.

This is Depp's first child and the paparazzi are being hypocritical. This is stressful, and represents other actor/actresses. They deal with this everyday, they don't get to pick when this happens.
[http://www.deppimpact.com...]

Yes, I understand it isn't an on off switch...I have siblings and cousins that suffer from it. People who have difficult reading or writing also cannot become actors/dancers usually, as I've stated before. Even if they have trouble with reading or writing, on different intensities.

(5) Of mice and men didn't save one life didn't save two lives didn't save 10 lives. The life of a doctor cannot be easily compared to the literary value of a piece of entertainment.

Studys show that encouragement actually improves the childs performance. Encouragement means that the child is more likely to succeed.

There are plenty of careers out there that are successful, and any talent could be applied to something successful.
Cheetah

Pro

Hi, Nohandlebars

Thank you for your reply! Happy New Year!!

Please check out my footnotes to see further comments and citations (in order of appearance)


From Con’s previous post (Round 3):


(1) Encouragement

“Doctor vs dancers both have its pros and cons, and many of the pros and cons are very related...There is no guarantee job outside the doors, and somebody has to find it themselves”

I pretty much agree with you on this one. However, there are some things that I must add though. To be a doctor, you must be pretty much the top students in your high school’s health sciences classes. Getting into med school isn’t the easiest thing that can be accomplish. For example, Stanford University’s (CA) medical school’s acceptance rate is at 1.4%

(“The acceptance rate was 1.4% for the most recent class to matriculate at Stanford School of Medicine...” http://medical-schools.findthebest.com...) [1].

With ever increasing competition and work immigration, if you can’t get into one of these ‘elite’ universities, there isn’t a guarantee that you will be employed and even if. Public hospitals are working on ways to cut costs while private hospitals are becoming increasingly selective and more skeptical. Additionally, medical school is long and tormenting but you are also barraged with student debts, fees, and other payments as well such as textbooks, hence, financial security is also an important factor to career success. Even with financial security, students find themselves with unbelievable stress, here’s an article I found a quite a while ago on the Telegraph:

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk...) [2].

This article mentions how children of wealthy parents (>£100,000 Per-Year) have an increasing chance of getting depression and mental health problems due to expectations and anxiety.

Pretty much all acting schools are open admission. Being employed is also not as difficult as you mentioned. Being a performer does not mean you have to be big-shot hollywood star, or appear in the billboard or grammy, many performers (and I mean almost all of them) started off as a no-name. Christian Bale did not become a renowned actor after he left school, he appeared in an cereal (or softener, from various sources) commercial, then he started to appear in movies and got increasing reputation and recognition

(http://www.imdb.com...) [3].

Other performers who may not be aiming for hollywood-grade acting may join local performances or even Broadway shows. However, with given effort and self-actualization, bigger goals can be accomplished and as a result, you get the TV celebrities you see today. If a performer find himself / herself unemployed, oftentimes, they practice their talents. If you have been to or live in New York, you may find street performers that wishes earn while in the job waiting list. These people don’t make one or two dollars, they make a lot from tourists.

For aforementioned reasons, going into a stressful career path does not guarantee a job. For example, a soldier duty is a honorable role in serving a country, these people face extreme stress and even suffer from PTSD (Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. http://www.nimh.nih.gov...) [4]

Yet, around 13% of the homeless population are veterans; military requires many skills, experiences, and instinctive thinking. Given this, some of the homeless veterans served as combat medics, corpsmen, engineers, mechanics, and other roles which require high-level military education.

(http://nchv.org...) [5]

Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not saying that performance careers are a better choice for people. If you can get into a medical school or law school and love it, that’s great! If you get into acting career and you show talent in it, that’s fantastic as well. This leads to my next point.

(2) Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic

“ok that was a really interesting website, but anyhow, how is Extrinsic less than Intrinsic ? “

Good question! Research found that intrinsic motivations lead to passion, and passion influences almost everything we do; however, extrinsic is simply your wish to accomplish a reward, whether it is money or a piece of chocolate. The Incentive theory of motivation indicates that encouragement increases intrinsic motivations, however, if the task seems difficult to accomplish, or at some point subconsciously underestimate the task and failed, this can dramatically decrease intrinsic and all incentives will cancel out.

Here is an excellent graph that clearly explains it :

Incentive Theory of Motivation.

Credit: Alexander Kjerulf (artist)

Here’s the link to the website that I found this (this is even a more ‘interesting’ website that that previous one:

http://p2pfoundation.net... [6] - P2P Foundation (This site may seem like Wikipedia, but I can confirm its validity)

You can find this at the same page as the link above:

And here’s an article on a study of why Extrinsic (reward or money) motivations don’t work:

http://naggum.no... [7] - Study of Money rewards “Studies Find Rewards Often No Motivator

I am not plagiarising anything or making a copy and paste argument, I just want to support my arguments with evidence from studies. Please feel free to look at them!

(3) Stress from Acting and Stress from Doctors / Lawyers

“ I argue that stress is incomparable from a doctor or lawyer, to a dancer or actor...”

Yes, I agree. Medical careers are far more stressful and is incomparable. You are proving my point from round two here. Thank you!

“As I've stated, these choices (dancers) of careers can leave you jobless for weeks, looking for a gig…(+further arguments about weight loss and acting /media stress)”

Wait, so you are now saying that stress from the two careers are equal? Your position seems a bit inconsistent here.

Anyhow,

As I mentioned before, there are stress from all kinds of occupations, even strippers suffer from stress. Earlier, I have given an example of Veterans, and I will illustrate my point. In an acting career, if you mess up or somehow intentionally or unintentionally insulted a particular group of audience, the worst case scenario is you may lose your job and / or popularity among certain audiences. For a doctor, however, if you made a mistake, it could mean death to your patient and not only that, you may be sued for it. In a lawyer career, if your argument for the defendant is weak, the defendant loses his possessions or freedom. In an Engineering career, if measurements are inaccurate, this can create a disaster such as the I-35W bridge that collapsed on the first day of August, 2007.

“Jennifier Hudson had to lose her baby weight for her new movie and went from a size 16 to a size 6.”

From the same source which you used, it indicated that she also promotes Weight Watchers. According to an article, Jennifer Hudson lost weight in a healthy way, this is a double-score, not only did she managed to stay in shape, she also gave hope to those who are aiming to lose their weight, and became the face of Weight Watchers. Many articles have noted her success in her workouts.

"I love basketball. It's fun, you don't even realize you're working out. [You] just keep that metabolism going and just keep that energy up. That's that cardio — you're getting it in and you don't even realize it,"

- Jennifer Hudson to Oprah

Source:http://www.fitsugar.com... [8]

“I hear all about out Phil Robertson said a gay remark to the media...”

It’s unfortunate that anyone have to face such stress. However, this stress did not come from his career, but from himself. His career did not ask him to make comments on gays or encourage men to marry 15 years-old girls on ‘the Duck Dynasty’. Justin Bieber is (or was, depending on the time you are reading this) a singer, then is it his career’s fault that he is hated by so many? Bieber urinated in a mop cleaning tank at some kitchen, spat at several people, and had a sexual intercourse with a ‘Brazilian prostitute’ (later known to be his ex-girlfriend, Selena Gomez). But did his singing career caused all this hate towards him? Maybe his singing, but not his career. If a not-so-famous person said or did the same things, they would have gotten the same reaction, the fact that they are famous merely makes it easier for the news to go around and catch people’s attention.

(4) Other arguments

“Of mice and men didn't save one life didn't save two lives didn't save 10 lives. The life of a doctor cannot be easily compared to the literary value of a piece of entertainment.”

I am not comparing I am making an analogy; there is a significant difference between the two words, google it. And I didn’t compare books with doctors either, I compared it with how media works, they are both made for entertainment purposes aren’t they? This is what I wrote for round two:

“I am not going off-topic here. I am simply making an analogy from normal (private stage shows) actors from professional (hollywood) actors and actresses with books in the canon and regular, common books.”
- Me, at Round 2

“There are plenty of careers out there that are successful, and any talent could be applied to something successful.”

And performing careers can’t be applied to be something successful? I am not advocating people to become beggars or garbage scavengers here.

Footnotes:

Definitions:
Extrinsic Motivations - Money / External rewards
Intrinsic Motivations - Inner will, personal interest, passion
Incentive - Another word for Motivation, a thing, substance that increases intrinsic motivations

If requested, I can upload the PDF version of my Psychology Textbook (DAVID MYER's PSYCHOLOGY, 9th Edition)
Debate Round No. 3
nohandlebars

Con

nohandlebars forfeited this round.
Cheetah

Pro

My opponent, nohandlebars, had deactivated her account. Therefore, this debate is over. Nohandlebars, if you are still lurking around here, it had been a pleasure debating with you!
Debate Round No. 4
nohandlebars

Con

nohandlebars forfeited this round.
Cheetah

Pro

Why does everyone I debate with leaves me??? :'(
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Cheetah 3 years ago
Cheetah
Aww she killed her account :(
Posted by Cheetah 3 years ago
Cheetah
Sorry, no mini-break this round. I ran out of characters and jokes.
Posted by Cheetah 3 years ago
Cheetah
Turth, yes I agree. But only if the person shows skill and interest in it.
Posted by Turthshotinyourface 3 years ago
Turthshotinyourface
Yes it should be encouraged
Posted by nohandlebars 3 years ago
nohandlebars
Usually, I'm content with trolling people. But cheetah, I have a lot of respect for you.
Posted by Cheetah 3 years ago
Cheetah
Anyway, sorry for having you wait. I will post my argument soon :)
Posted by Cheetah 3 years ago
Cheetah
Are you saying I copied and pasted it from some blog? I copied and pasted it from a word document... That I wrote. If you don't believe me use this:

http://smallseotools.com...
Posted by nohandlebars 3 years ago
nohandlebars
The footnotes are fine, it happens when you copy and paste on certain sites, learned that the hard way. Anyway the ******* represent the change the four chapters you posted, if you don't know what I'm talking about.
Posted by Cheetah 3 years ago
Cheetah
Sorry about the footnotes, I don't know what happened here.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Cooldudebro 3 years ago
Cooldudebro
nohandlebarsCheetahTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: He makes a valid point!
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
nohandlebarsCheetahTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit... probably too much commitment.
Vote Placed by SeventhProfessor 3 years ago
SeventhProfessor
nohandlebarsCheetahTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct- FF Arguments-Pro had better arguments, and Con couldn't refute many of Pro's arguments. Sources- Pro used sources that backed up his points. S/G- Con used several periods where commas would have made more sense, plus an unnecessary hyphen.