The Instigator
Jocularly_Solemn
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Masterful
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Being Fat isn't Always Directly Linked to Being Unhealthy. You Can be FIT AND FAT at The Same Time.

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Post Voting Period
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after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2017 Category: Health
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,333 times Debate No: 103345
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (25)
Votes (0)

 

Jocularly_Solemn

Pro


My position on this debate is PRO, i.e. One can be fat and fit at the same time.
Opponent's position should be CON, i.e. One cannot be fat and fit at the same time.

Round 1 is acceptance. It would be much appreciated if one asks for my permission before one accepts this debate.
Round 2 is main arguments.
Round 3 is rebuttals.
Round 4 is further arguments.
Round 5 is conclusions. No new arguments to be made in this round.

Rules -
1) Please be respectful.
2) Cite all sources at the end of the debate, i.e. after conclusions in round five.
3) Use proper spelling and grammar; Make clear and easy to understand arguments.
4) No straw man (Misinterpretation of opponent's arguments)
5) Follow the debate's proper format.
6) No troll debating.
7) Focus on explaining your opinion and don't copy everything from various sites. Use your own brain and cite your own opinions. Don't bash the opponent's opinions as untrue. This is a debate.

I would like to thank my opponent in advance.
Masterful

Con

Introduction

So I've got to argue that every fatty is unhealthy? Whatever. How fat is fat? Visually, sickeningly chubs to the point of near demise? Or just your dad fat?

I could argue that they would be more healthy if they lost some damn weight, so while they might not be unhealthy, they're not exactly at their most healthy due to being fat.

Being fat is like a ticking time bomb, you're all chubby and smiley one minute then BAM! you got a fat heart attack and you're dead! You might think you're healthy, but for how long? How long until your stubby little legs give way to your disproportionately excessive amounts of cultivated mass? You think you're healthy, but you're on a downwards decent to death through a fat endued bed bound fate. Enjoy life while you're only moderately fat.
They don't sell size XXXL shirts in every store for a reason, because fatties die before reaching that size.

To be considered fit you'd have to be of a suitable quality, standard, or type to meet the required purpose. Meaning a fat person might be fit enough to eat 20 hot dogs, but NOT run a 10 mile marathon. A fatty might even be fit enough to consume the half eaten cheese burgers out of a public bin WITHOUT getting ill, but NOT get out of bed in the morning.
Clearly there are circumstances where fatties are fitter than your average man, however I'm assuming my opponent means physical fitness and so I will argue that fatties are not healthy when it comes to physical activity and in fact are at a disadvantage due to their weight and size. Indicating lack of healthy.

Fatties and physical exertion

In what circumstance can a fatty be considered an athlete?
-Sumo wrestling.
-Power lifting.

Both of which have been proven to have short life expectancies, possibly due to being fat, they also use short bursts of energy before the "athlete" is required to rest, recover and eat -
https://www.google.co.uk...

While fatties can be considered "athletes" in some rare, non-cardio vascular cases, can they be considered physically healthy?

It's clear that fat people have trouble running for sustained amounts of time, mainly due to carrying more mass, more blood needing to circulate, additional pressure on the arteries and fat acting as an insulator which raises the temperature of the fatty.
In this case fatties are at a physical disadvantage when it comes to exercise, due to being fat. This also tells us they're not fit enough to perform the task of prolonged running and therefore I have proven that fat people are not fit due to being fat in at least one instance. (I only need one instance right?) I believe I have sufficiently disproven my opponents claim that "You Can be FIT AND FAT at The Same Time."

How many fat wild apes do you see? I have never seen a single fat wild chimp, nor a fat wild lion (even the lazy males) This is simply because fat does not provide a survival advantage to any of these animals including us humans.
Only whales have blubber which does provide a survival advantage.

Imagine if a female lion was overwhelmingly fat, could she hunt? Well she managed to get fat in the first place, so maybe she can, right? WRONG the female lion can't hunt because she could never catch prey, so I would argue she stole that food! Perhaps from other lions, she was leeching from her fellow lions. This is not unlike the fat people of today, too many fat people is UNHEALTHY for society.
Nobody cares about the health of fat people, it's the health of society that we care about and due to the strains these fatties place on our society I reject my opponents statement which is "Being Fat isn't Always Directly Linked to Being Unhealthy."
Being fat is detrimental to society.

To conclude my opening arguments.
I have contested my opponents claims, being-

-Being Fat isn't Always Directly Linked to Being Unhealthy.

-You Can be FIT AND FAT at The Same Time.
Debate Round No. 1
Jocularly_Solemn

Pro

Clearly, you don't care in the least about the rules. Did you even read my Round 1? You were not meant to post your argument in round 1, just acceptance. Not too tough to understand.

One does not start a debate with questions about the debate. You should have asked me before accepting. We have a private messaging function here. USE IT!

Also, sarcasm won't make you win this debate. In your first few paragraphs, you just repeated the same sentence in different ways so many times. Makes your argument long but doesn't impart a lot.

The topic of the debate is - Being Fat isn't Always Directly Linked to Being Unhealthy.
Means - being fat can be directly linked to being unhealthy but not in every case.

By saying that fat people can be fit, I naturally don't mean obese or overweight people with heart diseases or diabetes. Because then it would be hypocritical.

I start with rebuttals because -
1) You have already destroyed the proper format.
2) My main argument was going to involve power lifters. And now, for the debate to sound sensible, I will have to include my main argument in my rebuttal.

" proven to have short life expectancies, possibly due to being fat" How can you really defend your side when you are not even sure about it?


"they also use short bursts of energy before the "athlete" is required to rest" Yes, power lifters are meant to use short bursts of high energy. That's how they lift heavy weights. They wouldn't be able to lift such heavy weights with long bursts of comparatively lower energy. Power lifters get fat because while training, they don't care about getting showy abs and stuff, they care about getting maximum strength. Their strength would actually reduce if they didn't have fat. Also, the fat acts as a cushion for them while lifting.
If one gains cool biceps and abs, (muscles generally) over a short period of time, without also gaining fat, that's steroid usage.

You say that chubby people have trouble doing exercise. Lets take your own examples, Sumo wrestlers and power lifters. You even know how intense their workouts are? Real intense, I can tell you.

Comparing humans with lions for a debate where I say being fat isn't always directly linked to being unhealthy. This argument you made would have been applicable had I said that being fat is never directly linked with being unhealthy.

You should really read the rules, man.
Masterful

Con

A response to my opponents attacks against me.

My opponent has a rule that states "Round 3 is rebuttals." However, in my opponents second round he clearly quotes one of my arguments, being-
"they also use short bursts of energy before the "athlete" is required to rest"
He then continues to provide a rebuttal. This directly contradicts his rule he set in round 1, which greatly diminishes the merit of any accusation he has thrown at me.

The first half of my opponents argument is dedicated to attacking my debating style, rather than my debating substance. He uses sarcastic and passive aggressive statements, which are directed towards me, such as-
"Did you even read my Round 1?" "Not to tough to understand" "USE IT!"

Furthermore to this, my opponent makes another hypocritical statement-

"Also, sarcasm won't make you win this debate. In your first few paragraphs, you just repeated the same sentence in different ways so many times."

Which is strange considering I've just shown he displays an incredible amount of sarcasm. I would also like to ask my opponent to quote me when he is making claims against me.
I hope we don't turn this debate into a bickering mess and I would like to ask my opponent to stay on topic.

Power lifting and health

My opponents main argument seems to weight heavily on power lifters being considered in top physical form, I believe this to be untrue.

Overwhelmingly power lifters are fat, muscle bound brutes who eat over 10,000 calories a day easily. This kind of calorific intake is life threatening and extremely unhealthy. These men might train hard, but they eat harder, that's where the danger lies. Power lifting is a non cardio-vascular sport, cardio is responsible for strengthening the heart and lungs. While a fat power lifter might look strong on the outside, that doesn't mean his over burdened heart is strong.
The point is, just because some fat meat head can bench 400 pounds doesn't mean the doctors would give him a clean bill of health, they'd advise this guy who lifts abnormal weights to start eating normal portions of food and lose some chub, or risk a fat heart attack.

The abnormality of fat and the animal kingdom

I bought up a very good point last round that my opponent dismissed as he didn't understand. I spoke about how it's very rare to find animals in the animal kingdom who are fat, with exceptions being whales and other marine mammals such a seals who use fat as insulation, giving them a survival advantage. Seals and whales are fat throughout their entire population, whereas in human populations you typically get that "odd fat kid" who creates an anomaly. We humans seem to be the only land mammals with an inconsistency in our population, this is all down to fatties, which simply is not normal in the animal kingdom. Being fat does not provide us humans with any significant survival advantage and this suggests it's not normal for humans to be fat. If you're fat you're abnormal, being abnormal is typically is sign of ill health one way or another.
I conclude that fat people are abnormalities and dwelling in an unnatural state thus showing signs of ill health.

For my opponent to counter my argument, he would have to show that humans are naturally fat and excessive fat play a role in survival.

Points for my opponent to contest

"You Can be FIT AND FAT at The Same Time."
I would like my opponent to consider the average life expectancy of sumo wrestlers and power lifters before making an argument.

"Being Fat isn't Always Directly Linked to Being Unhealthy."
I would also like my opponent to consider why fat humans are an anomaly in the animal kingdom before making an argument.
To further my argument against this claim I would like my opponent to consider the impact fatties have on the health of society. I will further this argument in the next round.

These are my main points and I would like to see them contested so we can come to a consensus.

Let's keep this professional and on topic.
Debate Round No. 2
Jocularly_Solemn

Pro

Let me educate my opponent by stating a basic debating guidelines. The affirmative side always begins a debate. Affirmative side has the burden of proof most of the times and a proper debate begins by the affirmative side stating their views, and then the opponent opposing the proposition.

Con says I broke my own rule about following the debate format and tries to put all the blame on me. But once con started the debate in the wrong round himself, that diminishes the merits of his argument since one can not oppose unless the other has stated. I did the best I could to keep the debate going in a proper way, even if out of format. Once the format has already been damaged by con, I wish to continue the debate and not care much about bringing the proper format back.

This debate would not have started turning into a mess had the contender given heed to the rules in the first place. I wish the contender stays on topic as well.

I apologise if I offended the contender in any way.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Con believes strongly that being fat always affects the heart. His assertions tend to make everyone believe fat people almost always die of heart diseases and heart attacks. (quoting Con - "BAM! you got a fat heart attack and you're dead!" ; "or risk a fat heart attack.")
But, heart diseases are based on multiple factors and weight is considered one of the important factors only when the person is very fat, or obese.


I believe I should define some terms here to reinstate some clarity -
Fat - Having more than average fat tissue.
Fit - The state of being healthy.
Health - "A state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity." WHO, 1948.

When a person gains excess fat (more than they can use up immediately), it is stored in adipose tissues, to be used for energy later on. This fat wont suddenly get into arteries and clog them. Fat escapes into arteries when it is too much, in the case of obesity. I feel I have already cleared the fact that I am not supporting obesity, but my opponent doesn't seem to understand.


"I bought up a very good point last round that my opponent dismissed as he didn't understand."
I understood the point very well. In my opinion, it wasn't a really good point. Reasons -

We are not talking about the fitness of the entire population, so why would we need to discuss the survival advantage? Survival advantage is viewed for a species as a whole. Having the kind of bodies carnivores do, or amount of blubber whale have,etc. gives their species advantage. BUT IT IS CLEAR THAT THEIR WAS NO INTENTION TO TALK ABOUT A SPECIES. When I said "You can be fit and fat" I did not mean - you = entire homo sapiens species.

"For my opponent to counter my argument, he would have to show that humans are naturally fat and excessive fat play a role in survival."
Fitness and survival abilities are different concepts when applied to a single organism. So, no I won't have to prove what con asks me to prove here because that would be straying away from topic.

I have stated sumo wrestlers and power lifters as examples since you did so in the first round. I would have used only power lifters as ONE EXAMPLE in my debate had it been started the proper way. I sense Con is trying to manipulate the debate by starting the argument in the wrong round and asserting some things. If not, I apologise.

"To further my argument against this claim I would like my opponent to consider the impact fatties have on the health of society."
We are talking about how there is a possibility that a fat person can be fit. We are NOT talking about how fat people affect the society. Con seems to have confused some terms.

I hope I have made myself clear enough and dissolved any confusion.

More arguments.
There was a study and the best way to describe the results would be to use an example of comparing the human body with a car. You can love or hate the external looks, but you can't judge the internal efficiency. Maintenance is what matters.

A parameter often used to say that fat people are unhealthy is the BMI. But it has been proved in a lot of instances that it's wrong many times. For instance, professional basketball players tend to have elevated BMI scores, even though they have so little fat and more muscle. Football players are big, but the physical activity keeps the heart problems due to excessive weight at bay.

Finally, for this round, I would mention the OBESITY PARADOX. Being overweight IS ACTUALLY CONSIDERED BY SOME RESEARCHERS TO HELP PROTECT SOME PERSON FROM DISEASES LIKE CANCER, PNEUMONIA, STROKE, HYPERTENSION, etc.
"For determining health or fitness, hhealthy behaviors, including nutrition and physical activity, matter more than weight." (Quoting from source)

People are generally stuck on the phrase 'fat is bad' because they have been told so from an early age. Too much fat is bad, yeah, obesity is a serious health condition; but just fat is not bad. I think I have proved my assertion more than enough.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just to clarify this debate to con a bit more, I say that "Being fat isn't always directly linked to being unhealthy" It should be self explanatory here but I just need to prove one instance where fat is healthy and you have to prove that no such case exists.

Thank you for reading :) Have a good one.

I await con's further arguments. :)
Masterful

Con

Fat for brains

You talk about the "proper format" but you've only just given definitions in round 3. You've a definition of fat that is very vague and unacceptable, you need to provide links to definitions.

Someone who is fat: (of a person or animal) having a large amount of excess flesh.
https://www.google.co.uk...

My rebuttal

"There was a study and the best way to describe the results would be to use an example of comparing the human body with a car. You can love or hate the external looks, but you can't judge the internal efficiency. Maintenance is what matters."

Maintenance is what matters? Being fat is a reflection of an unhealthy life style and suggests a lack of maintenance. The best way to describe a fat person, is that they're the size of a car. Let's be honest you can't claim that someone who has a body that is severely misshapen by fat has great internal efficiency, it's clear by the death rate of fatties that they're not internally efficient.

This source tells us that one in 11 deaths are cause by excess fat. Being fat is an efficient way to die.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

"Being overweight IS ACTUALLY CONSIDERED BY SOME RESEARCHERS TO HELP PROTECT SOME PERSON FROM DISEASES LIKE CANCER, PNEUMONIA, STROKE, HYPERTENSION, etc."

Can we please stop trying to justify being fat, you're NOT healthy you're NOT fit you're DYING. By pretending that these fatties are healthy and fit what you're doing is harmful, you're essentially telling them that they don't need to do exercise or eat well, because they're already healthy and fit. This is detestable and you should be ashamed sir, ASHAMED.

Obesity is not a paradox, it's a problem that grows and grows. You eat because you're unhappy, you're unhappy so you eat.
It's a vicious circle that will lead to an early grave and I don't think we should be pretending everything is going to be alight.

The literal elephant in the room

There is an effort in society where people like me want to help fat people, we have fat free products, we have weight watcher and we have health services who are ready to revive your fat clogged heart and save your fat chubby face from a fat death. Then we have people like my opponent who want to dangerously convince fatties that they are healthy and they don't need to try and prevent their own death.
I assert that pretending fat people are fit and healthy is dangerous, my opponent is indeed a dangerous man who spreads dangerous ideas.

Certainly it can't be healthy to your mental health being fat, the realisation that you're less attractive to the opposite sex. The opposite sex have deemed you UNFIT through unconscious bias.
You're not fit to mate, not in your current state you terminally ill super diabetic.
The impact this has is detrimental to mental health and will cause the fatty to comfort eat themselves, further exacerbating the problem.

Heart deisease is the number one cause of death in America induced by fat and the fat life-style.
https://www.cdc.gov...

Let's stop pretending, lets actually help these dying fat faced chubs. They need us, although we don't need them, they're still humans.

Please donate to my charity in order to save a fat child today:
https://savethewhales.org...
Debate Round No. 3
Jocularly_Solemn

Pro

Dear con, you could have given your definitions in earlier rounds but since neither of us did that, I don't see any problem giving my definitions as soon as I could, in this case, in R3.

You have been talking about me breaking the proper format rule so much. And I remind you once again, you are the one who started arguing in the wrong round. I mean, what are you even arguing against if the instigator, who is on the affirmative side, hasn't even said anything yet.

Then you broke yet another rule of citing your sources at the end of last round in your R3.
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"Being fat is a reflection of an unhealthy life style and suggests a lack of maintenance."
No, being excessively fat, or obese is.

"The best way to describe a fat person, is that they're the size of a car."
The best way to describe an obese person, not a fat person. (Not in my opinion though, Lamborghini, for example makes some slick narrow super cars)

I would like to bring to my opponent's knowledge that fat kills a person when it is in too much excess, that is, one is OBESE. If your abs aren't visible, you won't necessarily die due to a 'fat heart attack'.

"This source tells us that one in 11 deaths are cause by excess fat. Being fat is an efficient way to die.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...;
Oh, look! You have a source mentioned in the middle of R3! Anyways, I opened it and the first thing I see is the heading (obviously) - "Britain's obesity death rate"


WHY DOESN'T MY OPPONENT GET I AM NOT SUPPORTING OBESITY! FAT AND OBESE ARE NOT SYNONYMS IN THE MEDICAL SENSE! The Google definition of obese is "GROSSLY FAT" i.e. "RIDICULOUSLY FAT". Yes, ridiculous amounts of fat kills people, Yes, it is a disease. Yes, people who are ridiculously fat should be given medical aid. BUT WHY ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT OBESITY IN THIS DEBATE?

I still stand by my words. Being fat is okay. Being obese is wrong. You are speaking against obesity, I am against obesity as well! But don't falsely say that every fat person on this planet is also obese.

"This is detestable and you should be ashamed sir, ASHAMED"
Sure, buddy. I should be ashamed of stating the real facts? Or should I be ashamed because you want me to, since you sense you are losing? I think, you should get the differences between basic English words like obese and fat cleared up. You are confused.

"Obesity is not a paradox"
No, it is not, but 'obesity paradox' is a paradox. It has confused so many people in the medical field. You can't just deny its existence because you don't want it to exist! Although, I still don't support obesity, but I needed to show one case where fat people are fit, and look! There are enough cases to confuse a whole group of medical professionals around the world.

My opponent further says that I am dangerous. Dear contender, I never did and never will support obesity, or tell obese people that its good to be obese. Don't try to change the thoughts of the readers of this debate and the voters. This attack was literally pointless.
In my opinion, and hopefully that of a huge number of people, little knowledge is what is actually a very dangerous thing.
I get it, you hate fat people for being fat, you want everyone to have glistening abs, but you shouldn't let your pre formed views come in the way of this debate.

"Certainly it can't be healthy to your mental health being fat, the realisation that you're less attractive to the opposite sex. The opposite sex have deemed you UNFIT through unconscious bias."
Whoa, what kind of a cocoon is my opponent living in? He really thinks fat people don't get love? There are entire communities of people who admire fat people sexually and romantically! And they are not really invisible. I would be shocked if you haven't come across terms such as BBW (Big Beautiful Women), BHM (Big Handsome Men), etc. And the people belonging to these communities aren't less in number either.

"Heart deisease is the number one cause of death in America" (Use the spell check feature please. Using proper spelling is a rule as well {Con spelled disease as deisease}, not a big deal, but still.)
America suffers from obesity, and so people die due to it. I still don't support obesity. I support being moderately fat (I don't even know how many times I will have to mention this)

"Please donate to my charity in order to save a fat child today"
I think you are trying to make a joke, but in case you don't know, that link is to a site whose aim is to "preserve and protect the ocean and its inhabitants". I would like the voters to consider con's providing of a link of a completely unrelated to the debate just for the sake of a silly joke.

I would also like the voters to consider that con's argument was about how obesity is bad for people, even after I had stated that I do not support obesity in R3 (quoting myself from R3 - "I feel I have already cleared the fact that I am not supporting obesity")
Apparently, con just chose to ignore me.

Quote from source -
"In a new study by U.S. and European researchers, published [PDF] in the European Heart Journal, overweight people were found to be at no greater risk of developing or dying from heart disease or cancer, compared with normal weight people, as long as they were metabolically fit despite their excess weight."

Fat is a killer when in excess. Diseases such as a myriad of heart diseases don't depend only on weight.

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I have successfully argued and made my points against the contender. I have proved through the arguments that more than one cases exist where fat people are fit. Doing that was the necessary and sufficient condition for proving myself correct to con and the voters. The con has not yet been able to prove that fat people are unfit in every case. He has only proved that obese people are unfit and even that is not 100% true, since the Obesity paradox exists.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope we reach a conclusion on common grounds. Sources will be mentioned at the end of R5 (BECAUSE THAT'S THE RULE)

I await con's last round of argument before conclusion round. :)

Masterful

Con

Semantics prove nothing.

My opponents entire defence relies on the word fat not being associated with the word obese. HE IS WRONG.
Obese and overweight are both medical terms. Whereas fat is a casual/colloquial term.
So when I use the word fat, I'm casually depicting an over weight or obese individual.
His arguments are arguments from semantics where he is only able to dispute definitions of words.

rebuttal

"Whoa, what kind of a cocoon is my opponent living in? He really thinks fat people don't get love? There are entire communities of people who admire fat people sexually and romantically! And they are not really invisible. I would be shocked if you haven't come across terms such as BBW (Big Beautiful Women), BHM (Big Handsome Men), etc. And the people belonging to these communities aren't less in number either."

Fat people are a fetish for normal people AT BEST. So what if some fetish bound skinny guy likes a fat greasy pair of buttocks? This doesn't mean he wants to have children with it, nor does this mean he would want to start a relationship with it.
Fat people mainly breed with one another resembling some form of pathetic hippo mating scenario where neither one can see their own genitalia.
When it comes to sex, fat people are on the bottom of the social hierarchy. This creates the notion that fat people are unattractive and tells us that potential mates find fatties unfit to breed.

For whatever reason pro has made claims without sources to back those claims up, he also wants sources to be used only in the final round, how can the legitimacy of sources be argued if they're provided in the final round? This shows that my opponent is unreasonable, also shown by the fact that he claims to love fat people made apparent by his insight into "Big Beautiful Women" yet he disproves of people being obese. He seems ignorant to the fact that being defined as fat on any level is a gateway to being obese and anything that makes you susceptible to being obese can not be considered healthy.

Despite my opponent claiming to not be talking about obesity he bought up the obesity paradox, which suggests that people who are fat have extra defence against some form of cancers, thus a defence against cancer is healthy right? Not necessarily, a lack of cancer does not mean you're healthy, but having an increased risk of heart disease does mean you're unhealthy, so this argument does not prove that fat people are healthy.

""Being fat is a reflection of an unhealthy life style and suggests a lack of maintenance."
"No, being excessively fat, or obese is."


My opponent claims that being fat does not reflect bad self maintenance, yet tells us that being excessively fat does, this suggests that being fat to some degree does reflect bad self maintenance. The point is that the lack of self maintenance is responsible for one gaining weight. This clearly tells us that being fat is not associated with a life style that would be considered healthy or fit.

"I would like to bring to my opponent's knowledge that fat kills a person when it is in too much excess, that is, one is OBESE. If your abs aren't visible, you won't necessarily die due to a 'fat heart attack'."

When I described fat heart attack I mentioned that it was fat people who were susceptible to them. I don't think someone who has not got visible abs should be considered fat, by the above statement my opponent does.This shows his lack of understanding of the word fat.

"My opponent further says that I am dangerous. Dear contender, I never did and never will support obesity, or tell obese people that its good to be obese. Don't try to change the thoughts of the readers of this debate and the voters. This attack was literally pointless."

I'm suggesting that you're dangerous by telling fat people that they're healthy, this false information will cause them harm. it's like telling cancer patients that they are fine and they don't need to find treatment.
You are a dangerous man by spreading your lies and I stand by that statement.

"Please donate to my charity in order to save a fat child today"
I think you are trying to make a joke, but in case you don't know, that link is to a site whose aim is to "preserve and protect the ocean and its inhabitants".


Unlike you I'm not denying that fat people need our help, if I'm urging readers to donate to a charity which saves fat kids then I think that's a damned good thing to do.
Not only do you deny fat people the medical help they need, but you seem to be against CHARITIES NOW? Thus far my opponent has proven to be ignorant and thoughtless when it comes to fat people's needs and charities. At least I care about our fellow human beings.

To conclude this round

Aside from the obesity paradox I don't think my opponent has forwarded any arguments that support the notion of fat people being healthy or fit. My opponent has done nothing but argue semantics and use capital letters to excess, to the point where it feels like he is raging due to his own lack of substance.

I've forwarded points such as

-Fat people are the lowest in the sexual hierarchy, indicating they're considered unfit to breed.

-Fat people are unhealthy for society, due to eating more than they input. You wouldn't be fat if you worked harder than you ate. This is known as leeching.

-Being fat is not natural or normal, made apparent by fat land mammals being an anomaly in the animal kingdom.

-Fat people struggle with physical exercise due to carrying more mass, more blood needing to circulate, additional pressure on the arteries and fat acting as an insulator which raises the temperature. This suggests they're physically, unhealthy.

-Shorter life expectancy for fat people with an increased risk of heart attacks, heart disease and strokes.

-Athletes are overwhelmingly thin and muscular, suggesting fat has no place in fitness

-Not only is weight gain unhealthy, weight gain can be caused by an unhealthy lifestyle. Suggesting the two correlate

These are all reasons why fat people can not be considered healthy nor fit. I believe my opponent has thus far failed to properly address these critical points, without resorting to a semantic based argument.
Debate Round No. 4
Jocularly_Solemn

Pro

So, just because I happen to like to keep knowledge in various fields, and have knowledge that BBW is initialism for Big Beautiful Women, automatically makes me like them? I don't have any clue what kind of logic pointed that way.
"he claims to love fat people made apparent by his insight into "Big Beautiful Women" "
Spreading lies again Mr. con? I would have loved that you mention the line where I "claim to love fat people"

" he also wants sources to be used only in the final round, how can the legitimacy of sources be argued if they're provided in the final round?"
Con is questioning the rules set at the beginning of the debate. If con really had a problem, he should have asked in the beginning, maybe he could have messaged me asking if the rules were flexible. But like all the other rule related problems con has, he decides to mention them randomly anywhere in the debate. This shows an extreme careless attitude of the con to debates and rules in general.

Obesity paradox - It states that being overweight protects the body from a myriad of diseases like cancer, pneumonia, stroke, hypertension and so many more. This means that fat has a role in providing immunity against various conditions. So a moderately fat man, who is not obese and thus, doesn't have elevated risks of heart disease or clogged arteries, will be healthier than a normal individual.

"This shows his lack of understanding of the word fat."
Oh, I understand the word alright. You are the one that is confusing it with obesity. The definition of obese is very fat. Too much of anything is bad. My opponent says " being excessively fat does, this suggests that being fat to some degree does reflect bad self maintenance." but it is quite a common knowledge that if too much of a thing is bad, it is not necessary that the thing is bad in general. Too much oxygen causes oxygen toxicity; according to con's logic, this proves oxygen is bad for us. Water intoxication will prove that water is bad for us according to this mutilated logic.

"You are a dangerous man by spreading your lies and I stand by that statement"
Con bluntly direct attacks me again to stray away from the topic and try to collect as many points in his favour as he can. So, any person who has views different than you is dangerous? I won't be surprised if you tell that to every person you have a debate here with. I am trying to have a civilised debate with facts. Anything I mention is based on reading from various sources, forming an opinion and expressing it; not false accusations on my opponent or cheap last resort 'trying-to-win' tactics like that, which con is using.

"you seem to be against CHARITIES NOW?"
THAT CHARITY IS FOR SAVING OCEAN LIVES. ( This further shows con's extremely careless attitude to this debate. Debaters fear these levels of carelessness.) You casually mention a charity website just to make a joke and THAT IS AN INSULT TO BOTH THE CHARITY AND THIS DEBATE. I think you are the one who doesn't respect anything, charity or debate. Maybe this is one of the cheap last resort tactics where you try to pull the wool over the voters' eyes, but seriously? you have the audacity to write "At least I care about our fellow human beings." after you ask us to donate to a charity meant for whales and ocean? You just wanted to make the cringe-worthy joke telling that fat people are whales. This shows massive amount of disrespect to a lot of things such as debates, charities, people.

Further, you seem to think that I have been arguing just over semantics, but no, I am arguing with facts from various sources. I form my opinions based on knowledge. Also, you seem to be having a problem when I capitalise my phrases, but that's a way of writing and the capitals show the importance of the phrase or word.

The fallacy in your conclusions-
1) Adipophily hugely exists in all sexualities and people can like chubby people sexually and romantically. They do marry and live a happy life, I would like to see con prove that all slightly heavier couples are sad and end up divorcing.
2) Fatness is not always due to overeating. It depends on the way your body reacts to food.
3) Fat people have a good life expectancy. Obese people die after a short life.
4) Athletes aren't overwhelmingly thin and muscular. Athletes are in all shapes and sizes. Different sports need athletes with different body types.
5)Weight gain is can be caused by an unhealthy lifestyle, but doesn't need to be. It can also be gained on purpose to become more healthy.

CONCLUSIONS -
I have proved more than one cases where fat people can be considered fit. Fitness is not your ability to lift weights. The definitions of fit and healthy have been given in R3. From all my arguments, fat people can very well be fit. This is so as heart diseases, etc are based on a huge number of factors and one of the factors is 'too much fat'. Like too much oxygen causes oxygen poisoning, too much fat causes obesity and related problems. If a person is just moderately fat, he won't have any problems in doing the normal day to day works, take care of himself and his family.

There has been studies which have found out that our thinking of the 'normal weight' is wrong. Having a round belly is okay but that doesn't mean you don't exercise and eat random stuff all day. One can eat healthy meals and exercise while being fat if one wants to. There are exercises which maintain the health and are not meant to make one become all muscular. Fat is not a term which links directly to disease. This is obviously no excuse to people who gain weight the unhealthy way.

The concept of Fat is confusing to so many people since it can be gained in an unhealthy way and a healthy way. Many people gain it the unhealthy way and leave a bad impression in people's minds about fat in general.

But the main aim of this debate was proving a single case where fat is considered healthy, and using the definitions mentioned, I have been successful in proving my point for more than a single case.

I have done so by using facts and have not made any stuff up. Also, I am not biased as I am not fat myself.

Sources -

- http://healthland.time.com...

- http://www.medicinenet.com...

- http://www.npr.org...

-
https://qz.com...

- https://en.wikipedia.org...

- http://www.medicalnewstoday.com...

- https://www.sciencealert.com...

- https://www.theguardian.com...

I prefer everyone check the links and read them to get a better viewpoint on the topic. I hope the voting is done in a fair way and not over biased reasons. Voters must keep in mind the ACTUAL violations made to the spirit of debating and shouldn't just believe the accusations. They should analyse the debate themselves before voting and give just vote.

I thank everyone who read this debate. Have a good day. I also thank con for arguing with me on this topic. It clarified my views and made me hold my position stronger than before.
Masterful

Con

Seeing as I made an argument in round 1 I will not post an argument in this round to make it fair.

It has been a good debate.

Health risks linked with being fat-
https://www.niddk.nih.gov...

Obesity rate in America-
https://www.google.co.uk...

Fat girl problems-
http://www.essence.com...
Debate Round No. 5
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Masterful 3 months ago
Masterful
Expect to read quotes such as,

"Fat people are a fetish for normal people AT BEST. So what if some fetish bound skinny guy likes a fat greasy pair of buttocks? This doesn't mean he wants to have children with it, nor does this mean he would want to start a relationship with it.
Fat people mainly breed with one another resembling some form of pathetic hippo mating scenario where neither one can see their own genitalia."
Posted by Masterful 5 months ago
Masterful
So much to read....If anyone actually reads all this I'd be impressed.....
Posted by Masterful 5 months ago
Masterful
What do you mean by that last part NDECD?
Posted by NDECD1441 5 months ago
NDECD1441
And this is how you know Masterful has change into a much better debater. Still with the "realism" though...
Posted by Jocularly_Solemn 5 months ago
Jocularly_Solemn
Thanks for letting it stay fair. Nothing taken personally, mate.
Posted by Masterful 5 months ago
Masterful
Good debate Joc, I'm sure I'll read over this in a couple years time and get a good laugh.

I wasn't trying to attack you, I was only attacking your points hope you didn't take it too personally.
Posted by Jocularly_Solemn 5 months ago
Jocularly_Solemn
Fanboy, I would trust medical professionals rather than someone in the comments who doesn't like fat on their body, so they think its bad.
Posted by FanboyMctroll 5 months ago
FanboyMctroll
Duuuuude grab another reefer because it's just not possible to be fit and fat. You look at all athletes and they are just muscle, there is no fat on them, look at marathon runners, any athlete except for football maybe. Being fat is a way your body stores the extra food because of lack of exercise.

It means you are eating too much and not exercising enough, that is not healthy!!
Posted by Masterful 5 months ago
Masterful
I'm not fat shaming I'm trying to help fats by getting them to recognise they have a problem. You're the one trying to hide that problem by saying they're healthy.
Posted by Jocularly_Solemn 5 months ago
Jocularly_Solemn
Dude, I say for the last time, I am NOT supporting obesity. I don't think you even read the arguments. I am not even fat myself so the fat shaming is not really getting anywhere.
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