The Instigator
candice
Pro (for)
Winning
52 Points
The Contender
Logical-Master
Con (against)
Losing
49 Points

Being a stay at home mom is one of the most important jobs a woman can do.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/28/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 9,828 times Debate No: 2990
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (33)
Votes (28)

 

candice

Pro

As a mother, of two very young children (and 7 month old a 22 month old to be exact) I consider myself to have a job. My job is to raise two healthy, happy independent people. My children are not just babies to me. They are people I'm shaping, and preparing for this world. What you do while your children are in your home effects them when they're out of of your home. When did being a stay at home mother become some kind of a let down for women in the eyes of society? The aptitude of a female isn't only calculated by the high profile jobs we hold. It's in the way we revere ourselves, mentally nurture ourselves, and those around us. Especially our children.

Stay at home mother's keep the environment in which children grow up in nice (or at least they should), and create a since of consistency and safety. Not that a mother that works does not, please don't take any of what I'm saying a down to working mothers! Take my situation: my husband is a marine, and is often gone for long period's of time. I try to make things as smooth, and normal as I possibly can for my children.

Even though stay at home mother's don't earn money(although some do), they still contribute in keeping the household healthy, wonderful and functioning. There aren't very many things I can think of that are more important than actually shaping a person, and making their lives good and readying them for the world.

During the day, I clean, feed 3 meals a day and snacks, breat feed my youngest, give naps, change two sets of diapers,baths when needed (which is frequent with a toddler) go to the park, work on the alphabet, and numbers, play with both trying to make each feel loved and not jealous of the other, Cook dinner, get everyone ready for bed, read a story, then go to bed untill the youngest wakes up for another feeding. That's when there's no Doctor's visits, trips to the store, or anything else to do. You'll hear no complaints from me, I LOVE what I do, but don't think stay at home moms sit at home and watch soaps! Everything I do, I try to do well. It just so happens I'm a stay at home mom. This to me is important, and should be revered as such.
Logical-Master

Con

Greetings.

First, I'd like to thank my opponent for starting this debate. Second, I'd like to thank the readers for reading it. With that said, let us proceed carefully.

Now my opponent makes a pretty bold claim.

Her entire case can basically be summed up as:

1) Ideally, mothers take care of their children.
2) Ideally, mothers also keep their households in working order (cooking, cleaning, etc).
3) Therefore, being a stay at home mom is one of the most important jobs a woman can do.

If my opponent feels that I should go into detail on her round one speech, I will do so. However, I must warn you that most of what she has stated is unnecessary to the argument at hand.

In any case, looking at what her argument boils down to, it is clear that it suffers from the "non sequitur" fallacy. Her conclusion doesn't follow for a few reasons:

1) Not all women pursue (or are even capable of pursuing) motherhood (and given the problems our planet is having with overpopulation, ALL women should certainly not be encouraged).

2) Not all women have a supporting husband who can insure their family's financial stability (incidentally, even my opponent brings this up).

3) Not all women follow the typical idea of "the men going to work while the women stay home and insure the stability of the household."

For these three reasons, the PRO's case falls apart. However, there is an even bigger reason as to why her case is faulty.

The Resolution: Being a stay at home mom is one of the most important jobs a woman can do.

Upon reading it, one word stands out; take note of the word "can." She advocates that being a stay at home mom is one of the most important jobs a woman CAN do, but is it really? I have my reasons to doubt. There are far more important jobs a woman CAN do than merely being a stay at home mom. My opponent speaks of how her husband is a marine. Since she confesses to being a stay at home mom, I can only conclude that it is her husband "who brings home the bacon." In the next round, I'd like my opponent to tell me whom she believes has the most important job when it comes to a comparison with her husband. I assure you that no matter how my opponent answers, her case will weaken considerably. But I suppose that bit of fun will have to wait until my next round.

For the time being, I'll point out that women are capable of just as many jobs as men are. Most specifically, insuring our national security is merely one of the many career fields which women are involved in. Given the objections my opponent is bound to make, I'll provide more clarification in round 2 (in accordance to the objections.

Your move. =D
Debate Round No. 1
candice

Pro

<<1) Not all women pursue (or are even capable of pursuing) motherhood (and given the problems our planet is having with overpopulation, ALL women should certainly not be encouraged). >>

Not all women run for president or are encouraged to. I'd still say that that is one of the most important jobs a woman could do. Just because every woman doesn't do it… doesn't mean it's not important.

<<2) Not all women have a supporting husband who can insure their family's financial stability (incidentally, even my opponent brings this up).>>

Just because all women cannot financial be able to stay at home, it doesn't mean that being a stay at home mom isn't important.

<<3) Not all women follow the typical idea of "the men going to work while the women stay home and insure the stability of the household.">>

Just because a woman doesn't want to stay at home with her children, doesn't mean that this makes the job worth less.

These reasons the con stated do not in any way make the job of a stay at home mother less important. He proved that some women do not wish to become mothers, and some mothers cannot stay at home with they're children, or do not wish to. Should it belittle a stay at home mother because another mother does not with to be so? I don't want to be a doctor, but I think that they're jobs a pretty important.

Yes, my husband does "bring home our bacon" well, I do the shopping… but you get the point. My husband is a marine, and has a very important job. My husband also see's me as an equal contributor in this family. Raising children to become comfortable, independent, intelligent people who will one day be the leader's of this country is no light task. My husband is happy he has someone who takes such diligence and care raising the two things that are most precious to him, and I. When he's gone he knows who's with his children, and that they're not only being loved but nurtured as well. Money doesn't mean everything. Just because I do not make money does not mean that keeping a happy home mean's less. Women should also not be ashamed of being at home. Who are you to say my husband is more important than me? We are in a situation that allows me to stay at home. So, we take advantage of it. I don't believe this answer has weakened my case. Please, opponent… don't think that trying to bate someone emotionally about something you know mean's a lot to them is fun.

Furthermore, I will not object to a woman taking any job. Many job's are important. I challenge my opponent to really start this debate and tell me why being a stay at home mother is not one of the most important job's a woman can do. Thank you for acknowledging that there are other jobs. I believe the readers of this debate will have already known this fact. Why is my job as a stay at home mother NOT important?
Logical-Master

Con

My opponent has raised no objection to the structure I stated her argument to be in, so it is therefore acknowledged as being how her argument flows out. Now all I must do is further clarify on why her premises don't reach her conclusion.

Re Reason 1: No, not all women run for president or are encouraged to, but since I've yet to make an argument like this one, this objection is completely irrelevant (red herring). The fact of the matter is that if certain women aren't even capable (whether it be physically, socially, or legally) of pursuing motherhood, then the conclusion which refers to all woman cannot be reached; surely one can't suggest that "staying at home" is the most important job a woman (as in any woman) can do when not all woman can do it.

Re Reason 2: My opponent commits the red herring fallacy here as the reason I provide has nothing to do with whether or not being a stay at home mother is important.

Re Reason 3: Again, this is an example of red herring. My goal with these three scenarios was to prove that my opponent's premises and conclusions didn't line up. I did not attack the issue of importance here. Also, this pretty much covers what she says below about me not showing how the job of a "stay at home mother" is not important.

Now if her conclusion (as well as the resolution) had been something along the lines of: "Therefore, being a stay at home mom is one of the most important jobs a MOM can do", this would be a completely different story.

Now, my opponent has yet to take control of this debate and define importance. Thus, I will take it upon myself to provide a suitable definition. In the resolution, it talks about jobs which women are capable of doing, thus we will define importance as being of great significance not just to a household, but to our entire nation (or world, not that it really matters, given the context of the debate). With that said, I shall lay down a few facts.

The career of being a "stay at home mother" doesn't really benefit the economy( in fact, it does quite the opposite for the most part), doesn't insure public safety, and doesn't insure societal order. Most of the other available careers insure one or more of the above. Because of this, we cannot conclude that being a stay at home mother is one of the most important careers.

There are multiple ways my opponent could have answered my question, but as I've stated previously, any of them would have weakened her case. It would seem that my prediction was correct.

My opponent suggests that her husband's job is equal to hers and even attempts to convince you of this by telling you that this is what her husband believes. Well, whether or not her husband believes that, there are still some crucial facts which must be taken into account. Firstly, her husband doesn't merely bring home the bacon (so to say); her husband helps in insuring our NATIONAL security. In other words, he is not just defending my opponent and her children, but rather the entire nation; my opponent's husband helps in defending 200,000,000 people (children and adults). Surely my opponent's "job" of looking out for her children 24/7 until they inevitably pursue their education (Kindergarten and up) is not as important. Secondly, without her husband and his job, she has no means of being a stay at home mom. The same doesn't apply when we remove my opponent from consideration.

As for how her answer weakens her case, she went about attempting to prove her case by listing factors of her job that only benefit herself, her husband, and her children; she exposed the grave error in what she advocating. How can her career even be CLOSE to being considered one of the most important careers if it only directly benefits a few individuals whom she is involved with personally? As noted above, an important career goes about directly benefiting society as a whole.

Another thing to consider is that there are many ways to substitute my opponent's job while greatly contributing to society. She tells you how her job manages to keep her children in a good environment (or in her words, it should) and that it allows her to nurture her children and prepare them for the world, but this is just what our schools accomplish (professionally might I add). As far as keeping the house clean goes, one can simply hire a maid at a proper price. Neither of these paths end in merely solving individual needs.

Finally, my opponent concedes that women are capable of taking up any job. She merely scoffs this argument away believing that the point is to show that there are other jobs. Alas, my opponent would have been better off arguing from an anti feminist stance. If we are to consider women as being capable of any job, this means that I am free to compare "staying at home" with any other job which is deemed most important. In other words, my opponent essentially suggest that being a "stay at home mom" is in the same league of importance as leading a country, being involved in a prioritized part of the medical profession, or a prioritized part of the legal profession. These professions are the backbone of our nation; our nation cannot survive without them. However, the same cannot be said for being a stay at home mom (in fact, our society has shown that it can easily persevere without it).

Now I shall clarify on that straw man fallacy my opponent committed at the end of her previous round. She insist that I prove how being a stay at home mother is not important. Quite frankly, this is not my argument; judging from the resolution, attempting to prove such is merely optional. All I have to do is show how "staying at home" doesn't fall under the criteria of "most important." Based on my above argument, I've shown this quite well.

One thing is for sure: My opponent has yet to show how being a stay at home mom is one of the most important jobs a woman can do. Given my first argument that concerns the non sequitur fallacy, she hasn't even ATTEMPTED this yet. I now stand ready for my opponent's final response.
Debate Round No. 2
candice

Pro

<>

As I already addressed in my first rebuttal to you, just because every woman does not stay at home with her children this does not belittle or prove it unimportant. Also, just because not all women are mother's prooves in no way my being a stay at home one invalid or worth less.In this logic, no job would be important, because every woman cannot do every job in existence.

<>

The con states that my husband is more important than I. How does this prove my job in unimportant?

<>

By mentally and physically nurturing my children, I am teaching them to be responsible, independent, and secure people. All the people around them will have the pleasure of their influence. When they reach adulthood, the job's they hold will put them in contact with peers, and whatever job they'll be doing will emulate my raising them as they do it with diligence and care. All the good deeds they do will effect those around them. Also, when they have children the skills and good disposition they were raised with will seep over, and so on it goes. These people I'm readying for life will have an impact on much more than you could imagine. The young people of this country are of the utmost importance to nurture, and raise to be strong and intelligent. How does influencing society ITSELF, not help society?

<>

The school system doesn't hug a crying baby. The school system doesn't get a child past a fear of the dark. The school system doesn't potty train. A maid won't read a bedtime story, or sing song's. A teacher won't cuddle with a child who needs affection. There's more to being a mother than cleaning.

<>

I have in every argument shown why I think being a stay at home mom is important. This country benefits from stay at home mothers. Shaping the minds of people is no small task. Perhaps my children will one day be helping you. Perhaps they will become a Doctor, or psychiatrist. Perhaps a Senator, or a Marine. Whatever my children become, they will do they're job well because I'm teaching them to be responsible and efficient. Don't you want caring, positive, and decided people helping you? The job of a stay at home mother will always be important, however society learns to live without it. I'm grateful to be home with my children, and they are happy for it to. America should be proud of it's stay at home mothers. Being a stay at home mother is one of the most important job's a woman can do.
Logical-Master

Con

Re Reason 1) As I clearly elucidate in the previous round, I was not discussing the issue of importance here. My argument concerned my opponent's actual logic. All mothers may be women, but not all women are (or are physically/socially capable of being) mothers or "stay at home" mothers. Again, my opponent merely objects to my attack on her argument with irrelevant information. The fact that I clearly pointed this out in the previous round makes it more harmful to my opponent's case. In any case, you're free to dismiss my opponent's objection on this matter.

My opponent drops reasons #2 and #3, so you can extend those.

My opponent doesn't object to how I define importance, thus she concedes to it being how importance is to be measured when it comes to jobs.

My opponent tells you that I stated her husband to be more important than her, but this is an textbook example of the false dichotomy fallacy. I stated that his JOB was more important than hers and even went through backing up my claim. This was to disprove her claim that their jobs were equal. She drops my response on this matter (and therefore concedes), so you're free to extend it. As for addressing whether or not her job is important, this is again not my intention; I'm addressing whether or not her job can be considered one of the "MOST" important. I use her answer to my question to fuel my case on this matter.

Speaking of her answer, she goes on to defend it by still pointing out that it merely directly benefits her children and her husband. All of what she states on the actions and choices her children WILL make is baseless conjecture at best. Not only that, but even if we had valid reasons to support her claims, the manner of influence (as in the form that effects her children's actions in their careers) would merely be recognized as INDIRECT. The thing about indrect influence is that everything which an individual encounters indirectly influences that individual is one form or another. Influence is actually an effect that occurs with and without the usage of jobs. Furthermore, influencing a child concerns parenthood itself (rather than parenthood via the channel of staying at home). It isn't merely staying at home with your children that manipulates how the children are influenced. As I've insinuated in the previous round, staying at home 24/7 isn't even remotely necessary to conduct parenthood. This answers my opponents question as well as her response on this matter.

As for the school system, I beg to differ. During preschool and kindergarten, teachers as well as other members of the faculty are likely to treat the students as if they were their children. Teachers are well aware of delicacy that is incorporated into young minds. Hugging a crying child and eliminating the fear of the dark are matters which teachers are likely to deal with (when the child is still of the age where this mostly occurs). As for potty training though, this seems more like something which is handled before children start going to school, thus has no real relevance here. Not to mention that this is yet again something which parents handle without having to resort to "staying at home" as their career. As for maid's, they don't read bedtime stories or sing songs, but this is not to suggest that there isn't a career devoted to handling this; hiring a nanny could just as easily solve those problems. Also, one thing I notice in these reason which my opponent provides is that none of them are reasons that would require a typical parent to stay home.

Finally, I ask that you compare my opponent's last contention to the statement which she is quoting as it easily exposes her devotion to the straw man fallacy which I talked about in the previous round (something else which my opponent has not responded to). Again, I've shown how being a stay at home isn't one of the most important jobs. Whether or not it is to be considered important in the first place is a completely different issue. If anything, this statement . . .

Candice: "I have in every argument shown why I think being a stay at home mom is important."

. . . is to be taken as a confession that my opponent has not upheld the burden provided in the resolution.

Although to pacify my opponent, she has talked about the benefits of parenting itself; none of the benefits apply as being benefits which can only come from a parent staying at home rather than getting a paying job (hence benefiting the economy, insuring social order, insuring public peace, or any combination of the three). As I've pointed out, staying out home while devoting oneself to parenthood directly benefits one's private interest, but public interest? Not really. As noted in the previous round, an important job is a job which manages to directly benefit the public. To further pacify my opponent, even if her children do end up excelling in their careers, it won't directly be due to my opponent's decision on staying at home; it will be due their education as well as the many people and things that manage to influence their minds.

Closing Statements: First, my opponent's entire case suffers from the non sequitur fallacy. Second, my opponent has ignored many of my arguments. Third, my opponent has even admitted that she hasn't upheld the burden of proving her case (as she argued in favor a different idea). Fourth, I've shown that pursuing the task of staying a "stay at home mother" isn't to be considered one of the most important jobs since it does not provide benefits in favor of the publics' interest. My opponent conceded to my definition of "most important" through not providing a response on this matter, thus further reason to consider it as being a legitimate reason to vote in favor of my case. These are the main reasons as to why you should vote in favor of my case (although you're free to vote on other reasons which I've provided during my rounds). I urge that you vote in favor of my case. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Logical-Master 1 year ago
Logical-Master
*else
Posted by Logical-Master 1 year ago
Logical-Master
I agree that my style here was plain DUMB and ROBOTIC. The current me would never talk like this. But content wise? Nah, I had plenty of content here. I guess you could nab me on conduct, but not on much lesS IMO.
Posted by Gi 2 years ago
Gi
The con was too focused on having the proper structure of a debate rather than on the actual content of the pros arguments. This alienates anyone in the audience who hasn't had a few college courses on "how to debate", especially with all the debate jargon the con used. It also annoys the audience that the con is ignoring the pros arguments and purposefully missing the point under the justification that the pro isn't following all the rules of debate the con learned. The pros lack of education on how to debate is not annoying to the audience. Instead, the pro is more relateable and their arguments are more easily comprehended. The pro argued like a person. The con argued like a robot that doesn't quite get how to have human interaction.
Posted by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
"The career of being a "stay at home mother" doesn't really benefit the economy( in fact, it does quite the opposite for the most part), doesn't insure public safety, and doesn't insure societal order" - Really? If you really believe this, I would love to debate you solely on this. Because I think that's what having stay-at-home-mothers absolutely does.

I don't believe that. I didn't believe much of anything four years ago. It makes no difference, however, what I believe as that's not what this debate is about.
Posted by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
Don't get me wrong as I feel I still won this debate. Even so, I find particular style lacking.
Posted by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
Honestly, looking back at this debate, it's much too sloppy and mechanical. I can't believe I used to talk like this.
Posted by MouthWash 4 years ago
MouthWash
I always thought you were just being honest with your vote. I also found it amusing that Kleptin voted for you on the bear debate.
Posted by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
That, and from the looks of it, I VB'd myself on a lot of my debates for some reason. :)
Posted by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
Thank you, Thaddeus, for your kindness. However, I don't mind having been vote bombed on a great deal of my debates. I had fun with these debates and that's all that mattered.
Posted by HandsOff 9 years ago
HandsOff
Smith76,
"What makes this job more important for a mother than a father?"
My wife and I have tried it both ways. I'd have to say that the vast majority of men are not emotionally equipped to handle this. I did it for two years, and it was worked out okay, but it was a lot tougher for me than my wife. I think it's in the female genes more so than the male. But there are definitely exceptions to that rule. I personally know of two situations where the wife runs a successful company and the husband is doing a fantastic job with the kids. These guys love their lifestyle.
28 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 12 months ago
dsjpk5
candiceLogical-MasterTied
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Vote Placed by One_Winged_Rook 4 years ago
One_Winged_Rook
candiceLogical-MasterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: "The career of being a "stay at home mother" doesn't really benefit the economy( in fact, it does quite the opposite for the most part), doesn't insure public safety, and doesn't insure societal order" - Really? If you really believe this, I would love to debate you solely on this. Because I think that's what having stay-at-home-mothers absolutely does. Arguments to PRO, S&G to CON
Vote Placed by Malachi30 4 years ago
Malachi30
candiceLogical-MasterTied
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Vote Placed by MouthWash 4 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro made a bunch of assertions. When Con pointed out the flaws in them, she simply repeated herself and ignored his case entirely. Reminds me of another, rather recent debate I was involved in.
Vote Placed by Thaddeus 4 years ago
Thaddeus
candiceLogical-MasterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Counter-VB - plus LM really ought to have won this one.
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 7 years ago
Logical-Master
candiceLogical-MasterTied
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Vote Placed by Kleptin 7 years ago
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candiceLogical-MasterTied
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Vote Placed by s0m31john 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by philosphical 8 years ago
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