The Instigator
Steve101
Pro (for)
Winning
2 Points
The Contender
Jamais23
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Being born with homosexual desires is a disorder?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Steve101
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/9/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 628 times Debate No: 78514
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

Steve101

Pro

The common argument that homosexuals are born gay is flawed. Their logic backfires on them. Firstly consider this:
Born with homosexual desires>homosexual relationships>no children of your own (no choice) = disadvantaged
Born with heterosexual desires>heterosexual relationships>allows you to choose if you want to have children of your own or not (choice) = advantaged.
So clearly you can see that being born with homosexual desires leads to homosexual relationships which does not allow you to choose if you want children of your own or not unlike with heterosexual relationships and are for that reason disadvantaged. Which is why if you're born with something (homosexual desires) that leads to a disadvantage (not being able to choose if you want children of your own) it is a disorder. This is similar to being born with other disorders such as infertility in which you don't get to choose if you want children of your own or not.
Another thing to consider is this:
Can life reproduce through homosexuality = No
Can life reproduce through heterosexuality = yes.
So if being born with homosexual desires is naturally right people wouldn't exist as reproduction is impossible. However if being born with heterosexual desires is naturally right then people would exist because reproduction is possible. Therefore being born with homosexual desires is a disorder as it is not naturally right unless you think it is naturally right for people to be born with something that leads to an inability to reproduce?
Jamais23

Con

Thank you for your argument. I am going to be a con to try to prove that homosexual desire is NOT a disorder.

First, homosexual feelings are not chosen; no human cannot choose how to feel. If we feel like we are in love with someone, that feeling cannot be "forced" to go away so that means feelings naturally comes to us and can naturally disappears. Much like feeling hungry, it is not a choice but a natural state; it comes to us naturally and can disappear naturally. However, feeling hungry and homosexual feeling are different because feeling hungry is not something sensitive or something that makes us human.

There are heterosexual people who become homosexual. Their heterosexual feelings changed and become homosexual and vice versa. Feelings come to us and can naturally disappear or stay forever. The funny thing is if we try to ignore our feeling, we would become mentally (and physically) ill.

It is true that homosexual couple together cannot create a human being. However, do you think all of the seven billion population compose of homosexuals? No, of course not. I am sure that there are billions of people that are heterosexuals. According to an article, 20% of the world population are homosexuals which do not include closeted homosexuals, 1 Do all of the homosexual people marry or engage in sexual activities? No, not all which decrease the percentage of sexually active homosexuals.

The world is facing problems such as teenage pregnancy, rape, incest, prostitution, etc. that contribute to human birth. Sad and sensitive they are, these factors may never end so population will dramatically increase because of these factors. Some gay go to the sperm bank and donate sperm which many of lesbians benefit from if they want a "biological" child. This adds the population and it's a win-win situation. To be honest, I believe rape, incest and prostitution are the disorders, not homosexuality.
Debate Round No. 1
Steve101

Pro

I just want to thank you first because you seem like a reasonable person and open to a debate so thanks.
"First, homosexual feelings are not chosen; no human cannot choose how to feel." This is a good place to start. While what you said is correct that goes the same for many things in this world. For example a person who has feelings that are violent and causes harm would be pressured by society to not be that way. Now the obvious retort to that would be is that homosexual people don"t hurt anyone which is true until they ask for things like marriage and then you have this: "Charities, businesses and individuals that do not support homosexual marriage have been sacked, forced to close or change their practices because of their beliefs," -http://www.afr.com... which hurts other people"s beliefs and their freedom to have a business in respect to the religion/beliefs. Also in Australia there is already discrimination even though the law states that same-sex marriage is illegal, yet we can"t voice an opinion: http://www.sbs.com.au...
So yes they are hurting people.
"The funny thing is if we try to ignore our feeling, we would become mentally (and physically) ill." I wouldn"t say that is entirely true. As I have said earlier a person who has violent feelings will have to ignore those feelings or face imprisonment. This goes the same for alcoholics who must ignore the urge to drink so they can control themselves. So ignoring feelings won"t always make you mentally ill.
"do you think all of the seven billion population compose of homosexuals". In this case it"s the principle not the probability. Do you think everyone in the world is going to be born infertile? No but it is still called a disorder (e.g. ovulation disorder). This goes the same with someone that is born infertile and may be "happy" about it but it doesn't change the fact that they are still considered as having a disorder whether they want to be infertile or not.
"The world is facing problems such as teenage pregnancy, rape, incest, prostitution, etc.." Yes but the word "wrong" does not bear the same impact in the scientific world as it does in the civil world, the disorder I am referring to is one which means "not working correctly" not an immoral wrong . Also note that homosexuals having donated sperm or using surrogate mothers is used when one cannot produce a child themselves so that just proves that there is something not right here.
P.S: My next reply might be a little later as I am rather busy for the next day or so.
Jamais23

Con

Jamais23 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Steve101

Pro

Jamais23 didn't respond last round so I will give him a second chance to debate this round. When you're ready.
Jamais23

Con

Jamais23 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Steve101

Pro

Ok so I understand you are busy but I really would like to know the other perspective because to me it's obvious. The logic is this. If you're "born" with something which leads to an inability to reproduce then it is a disorder. The excuse of "love" is just heterosexual love except the disorder has misplaced the attraction to people of the same gender rather than the opposite. This whole "equality" crap is exactly that, while they are getting their "said" equality, people who are supported with real secular reasons to be against homosexuality (as I have stated above) are getting whipped across the face for not complying. People believe whatever is easiest and it is easier for people to not think and believe the brainwashing of the media instead of being intelligent. They're thousands of sheep following the minds of several goats. I don't care what homosexuals do in their private time but publically parading around the streets half naked promoting a disorder to be a good when clearly it is wrong makes them look like fools. Worse yet brainwashing kids to believe it's right when clearly nature declares that it is not right is sickening. Do humans reproduce through homosexuality? No, that should be evidence enough.
Should I add that in Brazil their "gay rights" parade for "equality" is just a place where they can discriminate against Christians, the hypocrites. -http://www1.folha.uol.com.br...
Then there's the issue of a kid twerking in the same parade half-naked - http://www.churchmilitant.com... The vile idiots. Do I even need to explain why this is wrong? This is all the product of this so called "equality" and is a disgrace to humanity. Homosexuality has and always will be a disorder.
Jamais23

Con

Hello, sorry for the long delay. I know it is very irritating.

So again, homosexuality remains a feeling and sexual orientation that no human being chooses. Being infertile is not a feeling but more of a health issue. Homosexuality is not a health issue and cannot be dealt, cured or taken care by going to a doctor (therapist is another thing). An example is Alan Turing from the Imitation Game who was a homosexual but became a hero for breaking the codes of German ciphers by devising a machine. At the same time, he was forced to conceal his sexual orientation or he will have to go to the "doctor" or go to jail because people think of homosexuality as a dangerous disorder. When his orientation was revealed, he chose to go see a doctor (no one wants to rot in prison). He eventually took his own life because he cannot change his orientation no matter what.

Gay people brainwash children? No, I don't think so. In historic times, homosexuals had lower place in society. They were punished, stoned to death, penalized, beheaded, hanged, etc. See how people from long ago brainwashed everyone into thinking that homosexuality is intrinsically evil. In Islam and Judaism, homosexuality is forbidden but I am sure many are closeted. They are just forced to hide it to avoid punishment or death penalty.

I have a friend whom I asked if homosexuality itself is a sin. He said yes and I asked why. He said because that's what his religion believes in. See? Many young people are brainwashed that homosexuality is evil.

Not only that but homosexuality is used a sexist term like if someone thinks your hobby is gay, it is negative. It is sexist but also degrading to many homosexuals.

For gay people bashing religion like putting a gay person in the middle of the cross, that is very disrespectful.

Almost all of the disorders are taken care by doctors and health professionals and requires treatment and cure. Homosexuality is neither.
Debate Round No. 4
Steve101

Pro

Hi, I am glad you responded again. Now you present good arguments but I address them here consecutively.
1.I know that homosexuality is not a feeling we choose which is why the title reads "Born with homosexual desires".
2.You say that "being infertile is not a feeling" which is correct however for example other mental disorders which inhibits the ability to reproduce are still considered disorders such as sex phobia. So that kind of defeats the purpose of what you said.
3.With your example I am not saying we should criminalize homosexuality but just that we should not promote it as being a "normal" part of society. Homosexuals can do whatever they want in private but giving "civil rights" to a disorder is not fair especially when those "rights" hurt people. It seems the example you gave was more of a pity statement rather than a point. Remember this: homosexuals aren't the only ones in the world that get depressed and kill themselves. So what's your point? That it can somehow be prevented by accepting homosexuality into society? That's baseless, should we allow pedophilia into society too because some think of committing suicide? - http://psychcentral.com...
No. Because both homosexuality and pedophilia hurt people. And to prove it again here are two more links below to the persecution that has happened to people because of "homosexual marriage".
-http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
-http://www.christianpost.com...
And they said "it doesn't affect us" what a lie that was.
4.Moving on, I am not saying "gay people brainwash children" I am saying children are being taught that being gay is OK without ever being told the other side. You don't think so? Well I was that brainwashed child. I grew up in a school where they told us that it was "ok to be gay", they had gay promoting posters and celebrated "gay days". I was believing them too until I actually began to think for myself around 16-17 years old and thought "hang on there are two sides to this, why should I be a fool and accept one before even contemplating the other?" That"s what I mean by brainwashing, most people just accept what they're told without thinking.
5.As for the religion aspect I see what you mean however that wouldn't be far from the truth. It's already a disorder by science. This factual statement proves it so.
Can life reproduce through homosexuality = No
Can life reproduce through heterosexuality = yes
This shows that the sexuality that takes away the ability to reproduce is in the wrong. Because if homosexuality was naturally right to occur within our species our species would be non-existent as no reproduction would occur! Now I want you to prove the above statement wrong (that is a challenge btw) because that is an argument that gets overlooked when it is the most important out of all the arguments.
6.Homosexuality in science terms isn't so much about it being "immoral" but being a disorder which basically means "not working correctly" or "out of order". As I said I don't care what homosexuals do in private but public parades in support for something which is clearly a disorder is wrong. "Marriage" is not a deserved right for a disorder especially when said "marriage" hurts other people.
7.On you last point you do realise that pedophilia also has no cure either right? And that treatment is available to help control those feelings which could be implemented in the same way for homosexuals? So proper treatment could exist for homosexuals if society would allow it.
Jamais23

Con

Hello. Thank you for the response. My Internet connection at home is not working so I am just using a local library's Internet.

You have a point about genophobia but genophobia is usually a later life experience. There are children who are attracted to same sex at a young age but young children do not generally experience genophobia because they do not understand sex yet. Genophobia causes are molestation, rape, insecurity toward body image, bad past sexual relationship, etc. and it is having negative attitude towards sex. Homosexuality is not just about having sex with the same sex, it also deal with positive and confusing emotions with the same sex.

Pedophilia and pederasty are different to homosexuality. Children are dealing with their emotions, attitudes, hormones toward sex. To take advantage of a young child is morally wrong and an abuse so under no circumstances can pedophilia and pederasty be legalized. Pederasty is to homosexuality while pedophilia is to heterosexuality. Though pederasty is similar to homosexuality , it has the negative and having traumatizing effects like pedophilia. For the pedophiles and pederasts who are struggling, yes, it is not chosen but we cannot let them touch the innocent children. They could try to settle themselves with younger adults though. The latter or live in chastity.

People are told to believe in a truth all the time so I will not argue. Homosexuals just promote gender orientation awareness to young children who might grow up to be close-minded. Think about some Fundamentalist Christian churches who many promote that homosexuality is a sin and to have negative attitude towards homosexuals. The young children who are born thinking that would be close-minded when they grow up and might just promote hatred and bigotry.

Mental disorder or illness is usually a negative attitude towards something in a certain degree like we become anxious but anxiety disorder is more severe like refusing to leave the house. If mental disorder logic is like this, then it is okay to be homosexual as long as what? In terms of severity of being gay? There is no severity of being a homosexual.

It is okay to talk to oneself like to remind oneself about something but talking to yourself like there is a heavy emphasis of you becoming the second person is more severe.

It is okay to get mad but mad everyday and always... No!

There is no severity in homosexuality itself but it has the same attitude like heterosexuality yet no babies will be produced. Can this be avoided? No but don't worry, society will always produce progenies. If you think that homosexuality is a disorder, ask some gay people if they are happy the way they are or if they have negative attitude toward their orientation.

P.S. There is no possible scientific treatment for homosexuality... yet.

P.P.S. Thank you for letting me respond and take part. The week is hectic for me and my Internet is cut off so this is a rushed argument (library is closing soon and I have to run errands). Thank you once again!!!
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Steve101 1 year ago
Steve101
No problem Jamais23 thanks for replying the best you could with your internet being cut off. I could debate further on your last arguments but we'll leave it at that :) Good debate and thanks again.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
There are no orders from nowhere.. Only is.
Posted by Steve101 1 year ago
Steve101
No problem I understand I was busy too earlier. As I said when you're ready :)
Posted by Jamais23 1 year ago
Jamais23
Hello Steve101,

I didn't have the time to sit in front of the computer to post my argument on second round. I will try to post it later today. Sorry...
Posted by iqpiblog 1 year ago
iqpiblog
we r born with the ability to learn to enjoy anything whatsoever as a sexual activity

we get conditioned into the labels of hetero homo etc

sex is all just a temporary human activity which will enable us to develop intellectually

all perverted sex activity can be indulged in and enjoyed if planned carefully

i think all of us should have a group sex session wen we become adults as a ritual

sex workers gay straight lesbian and trans is a must to be experienced by anyone who has a closed mind about any type of sex

truth is ure partner can never be more exciting than someone else
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by HermanGomez95 1 year ago
HermanGomez95
Steve101Jamais23Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
Steve101Jamais23Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con ff several times. This is poor conduct.