The Instigator
defrulz804
Pro (for)
Losing
14 Points
The Contender
mongeese
Con (against)
Winning
114 Points

Being gay is a not a choice!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/5/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,757 times Debate No: 9947
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (19)

 

defrulz804

Pro

Theories of causation for homosexuality have shifted dramatically in the past 100 years. Early psychologists believed that early childhood trauma caused homosexual feelings to develop. Specifically, Freud proposed that a weak father and an overbearing mother caused a person to "stall" in the phallic stage of childhood development. Subsequent studies have shown there is no association between any parenting style or early childhood experiences that leads to homosexuality. According to the American Psychiatric Association

No specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual.
Rather, all of the peer-reviewed literature is converging on the opinion that sexual orientation has a strongly genetic causation. This is not meant to imply that sexual orientation is completely determined by genes. It seems there is a complex interaction between biology and the environment to produce sexual orientation. In insects, same-gender sexual mating is induced from altering genes alone, thus indicating a 100% biological causatoin for sexual orientation in simple species. For lower mammals, like rats, same-sex mating behaviors will occur simply by putting a female "smell" on a male rat. "Lesbian" and "gay" rats, guinea pigs, sheep, zebra finches (just after hatching) and monkeys can be produced simply by altering prenatal androgen levels (natural hormones that bathe the fetus in utero) in the mother, in a process called behavioral defeminization and behavioral demasculinization. It is currently believed that

In vertebrate model systems, a single [prenatal] factor-the steroid hormone testosterone-accounts for most, and perhaps all, of the known sex differences in neural structure and behavior. . . . Events triggered by testosterone masculinize the developing and adult nervous system, [to] promote male behaviors and suppress female behaviors.
In the animal kingdom, same-sex mating, including life-time pairing, is not uncommon, presumably caused by mechanisms such as these. Hundreds of zoological studies have found evidence of such pairings in the wild, including, for example, the widely publicized "gay" penguins in both the New York and Berlin zoos.

In humans, socialization makes the development of sexual orientation much more complex. However, the prenatal biological process is identical. While, in most instances, sexual development of the body and the brain occurs without discrepancy, in some instances prenatal androgen levels change in the middle of this process, causing a dichotomy in the affected individual. For example, in congenital adrenal hyperplasia, the early process of physical sexualization takes place as expected in the female. However, later in development, the adrenal glands begin producing excess testosterone, causing the brain to become masculinized. Almost half of this population become homosexual or bisexual.

It is believed that similar processes are the cause of homosexuality in the general population. While the pro-amendment testimony is correct, that "there are no replicated studies proving that homosexuality is caused by biological factors," there is also no disagreement at this point in the medical, psychological and biological communities that biology is a crucial dimension to the process of human homosexuality, just as it is the sole cause of homosexuality in all lower species. There are no peer-reviewed studies that any longer explore purely, or even mostly, psychological causes for homosexuality in humans. The convergence of many decades of research, as well as theory, all point to, by far, biology as a primary factor in human sexual orientation. While we know that biological factors do not act as the sole cause of homosexuality, it is accepted as the primary cause. While many studies support this idea, there are no current studies that contradict this belief.
mongeese

Con

My opponent's argument is not only plagarized (http://www.jeramyt.org...), but also completely missing the point. People who claim that they have no choice in the matter actually have two choices:

1. Be gay.

2. Suicide [1].

If a person suicides, then he or she is no longer gay, but rather, dead.

In conclusion, gays always have the choice of being either gay or dead. Being gay is obviously a choice. The resolution is negated.

Good luck.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
defrulz804

Pro

I would fist like to thank my opponent for accepting my debate!
However I did copy my information only for the starting of my debate, it was misfortunate on my behalf that I forgot to put the website. I would like to define choice in this debate as: NOt being able to control the matter or feeling as though there is no other alternative.

I believe that being gay is not a choice but is a combination of genetic and other biological factors.

1. In May 2009, Swedish researchers reported finding important differences in how the brains of straight men and gay men responded to two compounds suspected of being pheromones - those scent-related chemicals that are key to sexual arousal in animals. The first compound came from women's urine, the second from male sweat. Brain scans showed that when straight men smelled the female urine compound, their hypothalamus lit up, showing physical stimuli on the brain scan. That didn't happen with gay men. Instead, their hypothalamus lit up when they smelled the male-sweat compound, which was the same way straight women had responded (Swidey, 2005).
http://davidsmalley.blogspot.com...

2. There is a significant difference in brain tissue in gay males compared to straight guys.S ome scientists say the new findings are part of an increasingly convincing body of evidence that suggests sexual orientation results from fundamental developmental differences that are probably caused by hormonal exposures in the womb. Gay men tended to have brains that were more like those of straight women than of straight men -- the right and left sides were about the same size, the researchers found. Gay women's brains tended to be more like those of straight men than of straight women -- the right side tended to be slightly larger than the left.
http://www.washingtonpost.com...

best of luck to you!
mongeese

Con

My opponent's new arguments, like the ones prior, are still plagarism. Even though they are sourced, my opponent simply copied and pasted information from the source. That is not how debate works. You state your facts, and your source backs up your facts.

"I would like to define choice in this debate as: NOt being able to control the matter or feeling as though there is no other alternative."
I disagree. What my opponent describes is actually a lack of choice, not abundance of it.

Suicide is the other alternative to being gay. Gays can kill themselves, and no longer be gay. Suicide is "always an option" [1]. Therefore, gays have the option of no longer being gay, negating the resolution.

1. http://www.antipsychiatry.org...
Debate Round No. 2
defrulz804

Pro

I disagree. What my opponent describes is actually a lack of choice, not abundance of it."
My opponent clearly misunderstood my definition. I say that being gay is not a choice because They have no choice to any other alternative besides being someone who they aren't.

"Suicide is the other alternative to being gay. Gays can kill themselves, and no longer be gay. Suicide is "always an option" [1]. Therefore, gays have the option of no longer being gay, negating the resolution."
I also disagree, Just because they die does not mean that they are no longer gay. It is who they are, when they die, they are still gay. For instance, if someone dies a female, they are still a female but they are dead. Thus your argument is useless. Death is not a way to defeat a homosexuality argument. The point is that gays should be treated like everyone else, they are who they are, get over it.

see if I copy and pasted that...I'm simply showing you the fact, the research explains itself a lot better than my words.

thanks for the quick reply!
mongeese

Con

"I say that being gay is not a choice because They have no choice to any other alternative besides being someone who they aren't."
But they can die. Then they're neither themselves nor gay.

"Just because they die does not mean that they are no longer gay."
Gay - homosexual - "of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex" (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)
Dead people have no desires. Therefore, dead people are not gay.

"Thus your argument is useless. Death is not a way to defeat a homosexuality argument."
Yes it is, if the argument is that gays have no choice besides being gay.

"The point is that gays should be treated like everyone else, they are who they are, get over it."
That doesn't establish them to have no choice.

In conclusion, people can be dead rather than gay, and the resolution is negated.
Debate Round No. 3
defrulz804

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for his fast rebuttle:
In conclusion, people can be dead rather than gay, and the resolution is negated."
I'm speaking of and relating to when a person is alive. Death is a irrevelant excuse for homosexuality...are you saying that homosexuals should die because they cant change who they are because if that's it then your argument is weak. I'm speaking from being alive, it is NOT a choice. I disagree entirely and your argument is based on arrogance...your argument needs more evidence and a better foundation if you wish to win.
mongeese

Con

"I'm speaking of and relating to when a person is alive."
That was never a restraint in this debate. All rules have to be established in Round 1.

"Death is a irrevelant excuse for homosexuality..."
Of course it isn't. It's a method of no longer being homosexual.

"are you saying that homosexuals should die because they cant change who they are..."
No. Of course not. I'm just saying that if a person who is gay decides that they absolutely can't stand being gay, then they have the option of death. They should only suicide if they want to suicide. I'm real big on basic human liberties.

"I'm speaking from being alive, it is NOT a choice."
Well, I'm speaking about death, so your contentions don't refute mine.

"I disagree entirely..."
So you think that people still have desires after they die? Prove it.

"your argument is based on arrogance..."
Ad hominem. Where did I show any arrogance whatsoever? Please tell me.

"your argument needs more evidence and a better foundation if you wish to win."
I have a very simple foundation: dead people have no desires, and are therefore not gay.

In conclusion, my opponent really didn't do anything with my contentions.
Debate Round No. 4
defrulz804

Pro

"That was never a restraint in this debate. All rules have to be established in Round 1."
However, homosexuailty is defined as an orientation which takes on the identity of teh person almost like gender.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

"No. Of course not. I'm just saying that if a person who is gay decides that they absolutely can't stand being gay, then they have the option of death. They should only suicide if they want to suicide. I'm real big on basic human liberties."
But in fact you are. if they have no choice but to die then its not even worth a debate. Death is not the end of someones identity and memory of that person. They are still remebered as gay thus they live on in the person who remebers them, in a sense that is.

"Well, I'm speaking about death, so your contentions don't refute mine."
well then let the debate continue, we shall see in the end.

"So you think that people still have desires after they die? Prove it."
Good point but im refering to homosexuality as an identity that doesnt die with someone

"Ad hominem. Where did I show any arrogance whatsoever? Please tell me."
You are centered on the fact that they must DIE! If you would have played this debate right then we wouldn't be debating about death. It was a debate based on genetical and biological factors asssociated with homosexuality.
mongeese

Con

"However, homosexuailty is defined as an orientation which takes on the identity of teh person almost like gender."
However, dead people don't even have any orientation. Therefore, they are still not gay.

"But in fact you are. if they have no choice but to die then its not even worth a debate."
They don't have to die. They can either be gay or die. Nowhere have I said that being gay is a bad thing, nor have I said that they must suicide. They'll obviously die eventually, but so do we all.

"Death is not the end of someones identity and memory of that person. They are still remebered as gay thus they live on in the person who remebers them, in a sense that is."
We remember Reagan as an intelligent man. However, he had Alzheimer's disease before he died, decreasing his intelligence. He was still remembered as an intelligent man, but he was no longer intelligent. When he died, he had no intelligence whatsoever, because he was dead. Currently, Reagan is not intelligent, because he is dead. [1] Just because we remember somebody as gay, does not make that person gay.

"Good point but im refering to homosexuality as an identity that doesnt die with someone"
Your identity dies with yourself. A person's homosexuality, by definition, dies with the person.

"You are centered on the fact that they must DIE!"
No, of course not. I'm centered on the fact that they may die. It's their CHOICE.

"If you would have played this debate right then we wouldn't be debating about death."
There's more than one road to Rome, my friend.

"It was a debate based on genetical and biological factors asssociated with homosexuality."
Death is most certainly a biological factor that rids people of homosexuality.

Anyway, my opponent's final contention, that homosexuality lives on after a person, doesn't hold water, and is incorrect by the definition of homosexual. The resolution has been negated five times over. Vote CON.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Osiris 7 years ago
Osiris
What a waste of a perfectly good debate.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
Send me the challenge, then. Although, I'm still waiting for the drama queen challenge.
Posted by Danielle 7 years ago
Danielle
Con's argument fails because in order to BE something you have to be alive. Thus, being gay is not a choice. To choose death means one ceases to be meaning his entire argument isn't even applicable. Plus, if one is born gay (which is what Pro was saying) then one cannot choose their sexual orientation nor have the mental capacity OR the physical capacity as an infant to kill yourself on purpose. I'm not gonna vote because Pro plagiarized, but I'd love to debate mongeese on this subject... since he thinks I'm an over-rated debater.
Posted by TigerFB21 7 years ago
TigerFB21
Pro i agree with you but you are a dumba** and I think that con has very funny and convincing argument damn him lol jkjk
Posted by ThatTwatBird 7 years ago
ThatTwatBird
F.ag bags >:O
Posted by Boffes 7 years ago
Boffes
LOL at cons
Posted by Lifeisgood 7 years ago
Lifeisgood
I nearly choked with laughter when I saw Con's argument.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
That would be like sourcing gay to explain that being gay is attraction to members of the same sex...

No need to source random words that everyone already knows the definition of.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
The source explains that suicide causes death.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
Why did you source Suicide?
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