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The Contender
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Belief in the god of the bible is irrational

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/31/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 960 times Debate No: 95114
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (100)
Votes (1)




When I say "The Bible" I mean the literal interpretation of Christianities holy book.

Belief in the god of the Bible is irrational because rational belief requires substantial evidence, and as such a thing doesnt exist belief in god is not rational.

If my oponent has evidence of god please post is in the first round.


Let's start in Genesis. God created the universe. Science proves that the universe had a beginning. It seems implausible that the universe just randomly popped up or created itself. We know that that can't happen in our universe. It had to have been created by an outside force (God!). (Some of these things were pointed out in the book "Because God is Real", by Peter Kreft.) If the universe created itself, then I will have to start watching out for an anvil to create itself right above my head. Secondly, the same book points out that the Bible uses the word in Hebrew, Yom, when talking about the 7 "days" the world was created in, and that yom can also mean something similar to "period of time," so the Earth was not necessarily created in a literal week. Also, read this article about the Bible and evolution ( The Bible supports evolution. God had the Earth "bring forth" living things. IhaveMoreProofButImOutOfSpace! IwillFinishInOtherRounds
Debate Round No. 1


Well, your first argument is what I believe to be partially correct in the way that the universe has begun, and it is implausible that it "just randomly poped up", therefore there must be something that created it. However this is not evidence for gods existence so it doesn't help you in this debate.
All of that being said your second argument is meaningless, and im not sure why you added it because you're basically just saying evolution could have happend if god existed which doesnt even attempt to further your stance in this debate. I will not bother arguing with how you obtained that conclusion as it would be a waste of my time.


Also, let me read to you from that same book, although I got the author's name and the book's name slightly incorrect the first time. "Science has discovered what is called the 'anthropic principle.'...If anyone of dozens of aspects of the universe had been a tiny bit different, we could never have lived. For instance, the temperature of the universe a few seconds after the Big Bang that began it was trillions of degrees hotter than the sun. If it had been a tiny hotter or colder, carbon molecules could never have appeared. And all life is based on carbon." Works Cited
(Kreeft, Peter. "How Can You Prove That God Is Real?" Because God Is Real: Sixteen Questions, One Answer. San Francisco: Ignatius, 2008. 48. Print.) So, either we are extremely extremely lucky, or God is real. I doubt this all just happened randomly (unless the Big Bang happened many, many, many more times in other universes and we happen to be the extremely rare one with carbon, which seems waaay less plausible than God
Debate Round No. 2


I have come across this argument before but I haven't yet found the time to look into it, fortunately for me I don't need to explain it now as your use of it yet again doesn't forward your stance in this debate as even if it were a valid argument. This is because it only argues for the posibility of a deity and not the christian god that this debate is about.
This doesn't aid my case but you said that the multiverse hypothesis (which has no evidence for or against it) is way less plausible the god hypothesis (which has evidence on the contrary). The evidence against god is that the god of this debate created the earth is six days and we know from substantial reaserch research that the earth is 4.5 billion years old.

"The decay of uranium isotopes to lead isotopes in samples indicates that all the planets in our solar system formed 4.5 billion years ago" that was paraphrased from the official USGS website.



The same book I keep using mentions that the word "day" in the Bible was translated from the Hebrew word "yom," which could also mean something similar to "period of time," so each "yom" could have been many, many years. So, the Earth could have been created in 7 "yoms," not literal days.
Biblical prophecies: "There are over 2,000 accurately fulfilled predictions in the Bible, including some 300 specific details and implications about the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. For example, Isaiah 53 beautifully describes the life of Christ 700 years before it took place! Even the town of Jesus' birth was foretold in the Old Testament (Micah 5:2). And there are no prophetic failures." From (
Also, Jesus kept saying that He was God. Any liar would deny it later rather than die. Would anyone persist in lying to the point of an extremely painful death? No. Jesus told the truth.
Debate Round No. 3


I luckily remembered an argument that I hadn't addressed and didn't want you posing on me in the last round. The argument goes "All you atheists are always making us prove god exists why don't you prove he doesn't exist" my rebuttal is that it's always the responsibility of the person saying something exists to provide evidence.
I know what you said about yom and I have something to say on this. You can't just say 7 days could mean something similar to 1,700,000,000,000 days! You clearly don't have anything to certify this claim because of the way you said could and similar. I also said at the start of the debate the god of the literal interpretation of the bible. If you want yom to mean 4.5 billion years give an example where it means a period of time this immense. There is a Jewish festival named Yom Kippur meaning *day* of atonement.
Also not once did Jesus actually say that he was god.

Do not present more arguments in the last rounds, just respond to everything that I have said.


(In the following quote, "yom " is translated to "time")
"In Isaiah 30:8, it says 'Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever.' In this case, Yom is equal to 'forever.' How long is forever? An infinite number of years...billions upon billions upon billons of years. If Yom can equal trillions of years here, then why not billions of years in Genesis?" (from
"Day 6 is also a problem for the 24-hour interpretation....Adam's response to Eve's creation was 'at last,' indicating that he thought the day was very long indeed." (from
That article has more examples supporting a long yom.
Secondly, Jesus claimed to be God many times! Ex when "Jesus Said He Could Forgive Sins" and "Jesus Said He Was the Same as God 'The Father and I are one.' " ( these quotes From
Debate Round No. 4


You misunderstood the meaning of Isaiah 30:8, the time isn't forever, it is the time to come and stay forever. You clearly didn't read the verse properly.

First of all I scanned through KJV genesis & I couldn't see Adam saying "at last" anywhere.
Secondly if you waited a few hours for someone to turn up your response could be "at last".
Thirdly the "yoms" couldn't have been that long because after the seventh "yom" had passed and Adam & Eve had left the garden of Eden, Seth was born and Adam was only 130 years old, so 1 yom must be less than 130 years.
Also if a yom could be about U28; of the universes length are you saying the Sabbath could be the holy 2 billion years?

I think the voters will agree with me in that these are hardly claims. I also checked the internet & they were pretty much the only one that I could find. Also the bible can"t count as evidence which I explained in the comments.

I might answer round 5 in the comments.

God is still irrational.


You forgot to respond to the Jesus and prophecies argument. Do it in comments. "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Peter 3:8). If this day can be 1000 years, why can't the yom be more than that? And a yom is just an untold period of time. Some yoms could be much longer than others. They are not all under 130 years.
There have been MANY miracles (watch to the end : and stories of people temporarily dying, visiting Heaven, seeing God (the God of the Bible, whom this debate is about) and coming back to tell about it. I recommend the book "Heaven is for Real," about a very young child who goes to Heaven while in a hospital, and comes back and explains it in a biblically accurate way, even recognizing a picture of his grandpa (from when the grandpa was young) because he saw his grandpa in Heaven, where everyone looks young. A child that little wouldn't recognize a young version of his grandpa.
Debate Round No. 5
100 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Bjs123 2 weeks ago
Senshred- Of course all sins are sins against God, but some hurt one's relationship with Him, while others destroy it. Saint Paul lists sins that will keep one out of Heaven. Those are mortal sins. I think that, for example, it is much worse to kill 19 people than to say a bad word 20 times. Both are sins, but they are not equally wrong. Murder is a mortal sin, but cursing is a venial sin.
Posted by senshred19 1 month ago
>The catholic faith teaches that really bad sins (mortal sins) keep you out of Heaven but venial sins (smaller ones) usually don't

What authority does that come from? The New Testament classifies all sins as a sin against God, no matter if it is "big or small", except for the unpardonable sin found in Matthew 12:31-32 and Mark 3:28-29.
Posted by Bjs123 1 month ago
For your question about hell-

>>So point out the really bad ones. And if I don't do any of them I go to heaven. Great! Pascal's Wager averted!

You must also believe in and love Jesus, not just follow the rules. As for the mortal sins, I suggest you look it up because I can't really put all of the sins into one comment, or it would take some time.
Posted by distraff 1 month ago
>> Sorry, I wasn't clear. God forgives us when we repent, before death. Not after death. Not in hell.

Why not that. What is someone in hell has a change of heart and becomes a good person? Why punish a good person in hell? Why make punishment for finite sins infinite? Shouldn't the punishment be proportional to the crime?

>> The really bad ones break our relationships with God. I do not know how many people commit them. They hurt God, ourselves, or someone else badly.

So point out the really bad ones. And if I don't do any of them I go to heaven. Great! Pascal's Wager averted!
Posted by Bjs123 1 month ago
The really bad ones break our relationships with God. I do not know how many people commit them. They hurt God, ourselves, or someone else badly.
Posted by Bjs123 1 month ago
Sorry, I wasn't clear. God forgives us when we repent, before death. Not after death. Not in hell.
Posted by distraff 1 month ago
>> They are let out if they have changed, like how Jesus forgives us when we've changed.

Where does the bible say that? It seems to me that punishment of hell is eternal.

>> The catholic faith teaches that really bad sins (mortal sins) keep you out of Heaven but venial sins (smaller ones) usually don't

What are the really bad ones? How many people end up committing them?
Posted by Bjs123 1 month ago
They are let out if they have changed, like how Jesus forgives us when we've changed.
Posted by Bjs123 1 month ago
The catholic faith teaches that really bad sins (mortal sins) keep you out of Heaven but venial sins (smaller ones) usually don't
Posted by distraff 1 month ago
>> The New Testament talks about sins being the same. I Corinthians 6:9-10 basically has a sample list of sins that will keep you out of Heaven. Obviously, it is not a complete list, but it compares fornicators and adulterers to thieves and drunkards. The Bible categorizes all sins as the same, whether it is murder or idolatry. There is only 1 sin that cannot be forgiven...all others can. It is up to us to get that forgiveness while we are alive.

But that doesn't make any sense. Torturing, raping, and killing a little girl is far worse than thinking an unpleasant thought about someone who was rude to you. It causes far more pain, is far more pasting, and takes a far uglier person to do it. Since all sins are the same that means that even minor sins mean you deserve eternal torment?

So if all sins are the same then even a very small sin like thinking a bad thought is deserving of eternal hell too.

>> Actions have consequences, whether good or bad. Sometimes those bad consequences cannot go away. Sometimes those bad consequences cannot go away.

Yes, but those consequences are finite. They will only cause so much harm. And many actions often don't cause any consequences like thinking a bad thought, or don't have lasting consequences, or don't have lasting consequences that are very severe. Most sins are like that. Why do these deserve a lasting severe punishment? Shouldn't the punishment be proportional to the crime?

>> After all, not everyone who commits a crime gets forgiveness and a chance to return to a free life. There are many who have life sentences, meaning that it does not matter what they do from this point on and how they change their life and regret what they did, they will never be able to be free.

First off that is only for the worst of crimes, and many people with life sentences are let out on parole if they have changed. Also this is only done because we can't be sure they will do the heinous crime again if they are let out.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by distraff 1 month ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Lets start with the Yom argument. Con could not give a good example of Yom being used for an infinite amount of time but the argument that it could mean an unspecified amount of time is satisfactory. Con brought out the fine tuning argument for God and Pro did not refute it so Con established the existence of God. Con brought out prophesies in the bible and Pro did not refute that either establishing the Christian God. Con tried to rush in near death experiences as well but that was the last post of the last round and Con didn't have a change to respond to it so it doesn't count. All in all Con established that there was some evidence for a creator and the Christian God, and the belief in God was rational not irrational, while Pro was just obsessed with Yoms.