The Instigator
Reformist
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Kilk1
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Ben Carson is really Stupid

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Kilk1
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/25/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,365 times Debate No: 83073
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (24)
Votes (1)

 

Reformist

Pro

Ben Carson is really stupid when it comes to politics

Rules for Rounds
1-Acceptance only
2-counstructive response
3-Rebuttal
4-Conclusion
Kilk1

Con

I accept. Since the terms weren't defined, I will do so now:

Ben Carson"any person who has an extraordinarily high IQ level"
Is"to be"
Stupid"having an extraordinarily low IQ level"

In other words, the proposition is that a person with "an extraordinarily high IQ level" is someone "having an extraordinarily low IQ level."

I look forward to this debate!

—Kilk1
Debate Round No. 1
Reformist

Pro

Well I specficed that he was really stupid when it comes to politics in my round 1 argument. I'm sorry I didn't specifiy that in the title itlself I wanted it to be small.

Anyway thanks for accepting

Ben Carson has said some really embarrassing things

-Obamacare is worst thing since slavery
-All gays come from being in Prison
-Obama is a socialist
-Most Americans are stupid
-The pyramids were grain storages
-He defends hitting his mother on the head with a hammer
-Talks about how he violently stabbed his friend in the gut

Wow

can you explain these things? Thanks
Kilk1

Con


According to Pro's unsourced assertions last round, a Ben Carson (i.e., "any person who has an extraordinarily high IQ level") says all these things:



1. ObamaCare is the worst thing since slavery.


2. All gays come from being in prison. (Really?)


3. Obama is a socialist.


4. Most Americans are stupid.


5. The pyramids were grain storages.


6. It's okay that I hit my mother on the head.


7. I stabbed my friend in the gut.



I don't know. I don't think that every Ben Carson says these things in the context of politics. Wait! I remember a Ben Carson saying that before. His name was, well, Ben Carson.



ALL RIGHT!!!



Of course Pro is not so stupid that he would say that having an extraordinarily high IQ level means you're stupid (i.e., "having an extraordinarily low IQ level"). He's saying that "Ben Carson" (i.e., the pediatric neurosurgeon who's running for president) “is really stupid” (i.e., does not know what he's talking about, I guess) when it comes to politics. We'll debate the way Pro intended to debate. Who knows? This may be the first time in DDO history that someone actually decided to "untroll" what he made into a troll debate. So let's answer those points Pro made, shall we?



ObamaCare is the worst thing since slavery.


Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. In order for this comment to prove Ben Carson's stupid, you'd have to show that ObamaCare isn't bad. Of course you, a member of the Democratic Socialists Party,[1] would believe that ObamaCare is a good thing. But what about everyone who doesn’t like ObamaCare? Can it be shown that ObamaCare is so good, that comparing it to slavery objectively makes you stupid when it comes to politics? For Pro’s point to be valid, he needs to show that.



All gays come from being in prison.


Okay, that IS a pretty stupid belief. Vote Pro … NOT! Do any of you really believe that Ben Carson ever said that all homosexuals—every single one of them—come from being in prison? OF COURSE NOT! I’m not saying that Pro is lying; he may have just made a typo. Either way, Pro will have to source this claim for it to warrant a rebuttal.



Obama is a socialist.


Again, Pro will need to source this claim. And whether Ben Carson said this or not, consider the following syllogism:



1. Socialism is a theory involving “collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.”[2] (Note: Since this is a good definition, the converse must also be true).


2. Obama is one who advocates a theory involving “collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods” (e.g., ObamaCare, which advocates at the very least the “collective … ownership and administration of” health care).


3. Obama is one who advocates socialism.



Now consider this syllogism:



1. “[O]ne who advocates or practices socialism” is a socialist.[3]


2. Obama is “one who advocates or practices socialism.”[4]


3. Obama is a socialist.



From the foregoing, we should be able to conclude that at least to some extent, calling Obama a socialist does not prove that you’re stupid when it comes to politics.



Most Americans are stupid.


Again, you can’t win with mere assertions; you’ve got to source what you say. And then, you will have to prove that saying most Americans are stupid, makes you stupid. BlackFlags, for example, believes “that almost all Americans are stupid, not just most of them.”[5]



The pyramids were grain storages.


What does this have to do with politics? You said that this debate was to be over whether or not Ben Carson is “really stupid when it comes to politics.” What political activity would Ben Carson succeed or fail in due to him believing that the pyramids were grain storages?



It's okay that I hit my mother on the head.


Again, what does this have to do with politics? Also again, you need to source this claim. Ben Carson doesn’t believe that it was just fine that he hit his mother on the head. (Did he even say he hit her on the head in the first place? If my memory serves me correctly [and it may not], he says that he almost hit her on the head.) Pro will need sources for his points to be valid.



I stabbed my friend in the gut.


Again, what does Carson’s childhood past have to do with politics?



Ben Carson’s written the book when it comes to politics—multiple times! One of them is on the Constitution itself. Pro has failed to show the proposition to be true. Since the conditions were not altered prior to the debate, the burden of proof naturally is on the one who affirms the proposition.



Vote Con!



References


[1] http://www.debate.org...


[2] http://www.merriam-webster.com...


[3] http://www.merriam-webster.com...


[4] The previous syllogism


[5] The “Comments” section of this debate


Debate Round No. 2
Reformist

Pro

I will now refute Cons statements

Obamacare is worst thing since slavery
-2 million dead in WW1
-50-80 million dead in WW2
-KKK
-911
-Thousands dead in war on terror

Yes........giving healthcare to millions of americans who cant afford it is worse than those things.......correct?

Also I'm not a socialist. I don't know where you got that from. Never spoke about it

All gays come from Prison.

Watch from 1:20 onwards

https://www.youtube.com...

to be a politican you need to be reasonable and not say stupid things

Obama is a socialist

No hes not.

Socialist is collective ownership of good and production and distribution are by the PEOPLE.

No one else. There is no government. There has never been a socialist nation. Ever

Most Amercians are stupid

Here you go: http://talkingpointsmemo.com...

And you don't joke about those things. If you are being serious you aren't going to be taken seriously if you insult more than half the population

The Pyrmaid are Grain Storages.

To be Commander in Chief you need to have basic common sense/knowledge. A 3rd grader knows what the pyramids were for. If Ben Carson doesn't know that simple fact what other simple facts does he not know? You cant trust people who cant answer correctly simple things

I stabbed my friend/I hit my mother over the head

Ben Carson in his OWN book said he was pathologically disturbed. You cant cure the pathlogically disturbed people. He has also been lying multiple times about his book. Ill give references so you can read for youself

References
https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://www.https...
youtube.com/watch?v=PwVSQ5kGXMA
http://talkingpointsmemo.com...

Ben Carson Lies about book Article!
http://www.wsj.com...

VOTE PRO!!!
Kilk1

Con

Pro made these points last round:

1. Deadly events in history that have happened after slavery show that Obamacare is not the worst thing since slavery.

2. “I'm not a socialist.”

3. A CNN video shows that Ben Carson said that all gays come from prison.

4. Obama is not a socialist.

5. “Socialist is collective ownership of good and production and distribution are by the PEOPLE. No one else. There is no government.”

6. TPM shows that Ben Carson said that most Americans are stupid. And “you aren't going to be taken seriously if you insult more than half the population.”

7. The fact that Ben Carson believes that the pyramids were grain storages shows that he’s stupid.

8. Ben Carson said that he was pathologically disturbed, which shows that he cannot be cured.

9. Ben Carson has lied multiple times in his book.


Deadly events in history that have happened after slavery show that Obamacare is not the worst thing since slavery.

Here is the quotation:


…Obamacare is really, I think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. And ... it is slavery in a way, because it is making all of us subservient to the government, and it was never about health care. It was about control. That's why, when this administration took office, it didn't matter that the country was going off the cliff economically. All forces were directed toward getting this legislation passed.[1]


The problem with Obamacare is that it puts the government in control of health care. The control of that, according to Carson, is a big problem. He’s also said, “In other words, you've got to get the socialized medicine as the foundation, because it gives you control of the people. Once you get control of the people, you can do what you want.”[2] You can differ with him on this, but does this prove that he’s “really stupid”?


“I'm not a socialist.”

I said that you were “a member of the Democratic Socialists Party” and referenced your profile to verify:



Since your last argument, though, you have changed your party affiliation to the “Democratic Party.” What I do know is that you’re a fan of President Obama, so it’s not a surprise that you would think it’s stupid to say that Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery. But you must prove that Obamacare is so good, so great, that distrusting it makes a person qualify as “really stupid.”


A CNN video shows that Ben Carson said that all gays come from prison.

I watched the video you gave in its entirety, yet Ben Carson never said in it that all gays—every single one of them—have come from prison. What he did NOT say is, “Homosexuality can only happen in the type of environment that is prison. Anytime you see a homo, rest assured, he came from prison. Every single gay that exists—every single one of them—comes from prison.”

What he DID say in the video is that homosexuality is a choice, citing the fact that some who went into prison as heterosexuals came out as homosexuals. If homosexuals are “born that way,” how come there are homosexuals who came from prison that used to be heterosexual? How come they changed after going to prison? (Also note that Ben Carson has apologized for at least some of what he’s said in this interview.[3])


Obama is not a socialist.

You still are yet to give a source that has Ben Carson calling Obama a socialist. Even if he has—and that certainly could be true—that doesn’t make him “really stupid.” I logically demonstrated that it actually makes sense to call Obama a socialist; at the very least, it wouldn’t make one stupid to say such.


“Socialist is collective ownership of good and production and distribution are by the PEOPLE. No one else. There is no government.”

It seems that you are mistaking socialism for anarchy in saying that “There is no government.” As Merriam-Webster said, socialism’s big government, not no government.


TPM shows that Ben Carson said that most Americans are stupid. And “you aren't going to be taken seriously if you insult more than half the population.”

The source you gave actually proved your claim to be false! This is what Carson said (emphasis by me):


Everything was perfect. Except they underestimated the intelligence of the American people. The people are not as stupid as they think they are. Many of them are stupid, okay. But I'm talking about overall.


To ignore everything else Ben Carson said and only read the sentence, “Many of them are stupid, okay,” and extrapolate that to mean he said that “more than half the population” are stupid, when he’s saying that overall the people are NOT stupid—either 1) you are deliberately being dishonest or 2) you just didn’t pay attention to the source you gave. If I say, “American citizens aren’t vegetarian. Okay, many are, but I’m talking about overall”—that’s almost the polar opposite of saying, “Most Americans are vegetarian.”


The fact that Ben Carson believes that the pyramids were grain storages shows that he’s stupid.

It doesn’t have anything to do with politics. If this makes him “really stupid” in politics, then it would make him “really stupid” in medical science also—or any other field of study for that matter. Contrary to that conclusion, however, “With his outstanding academic record, Carson was in demand among the nation's highest-ranking colleges and universities. He graduated at the top of his high school class and enrolled at Yale University.”[4] If his belief on the pyramids really would affect his policies stupidly in any way, such should have been discovered by the media already.



Ben Carson said that he was pathologically disturbed, which shows that he cannot be cured.

That sounds like what Donald Trump would say. Here’s what Ben Carson had to say about that: “I’m hopeful that maybe his advisors will help him understand the word ‘pathological’ and recognize that does not denote ‘incurable’ — it’s not the same.” Give me one instance since the time he’s stabbed someone that shows he’s this bloodthirsty killer.


Ben Carson has lied multiple times in his book.

The source you gave talks about his relationship with Mannatech. It says that people have called him a “baldfaced liar.” The article does NOT attempt to prove that he is; rather, it talks about the term baldfaced. And Mannatech, as far as I know, is not written about in his book but is something that happened later. Apparently, some believe that Ben Carson lied: When he was asked about Mannatech, he said, “Well, that’s easy to answer. I didn’t have an involvement with them.


Why do some think he lied? As far as I know, it’s because he did paid speeches for Mannatech. He certainly didn’t lie there, because he made that clear in his answer. Here is an extension of what he said (emphasis in bold): “Well, that’s easy to answer. I didn’t have an involvement with them. That is total propaganda, and this is what happens in our society. Total propaganda. I did a couple of speeches for them, I do speeches for other people. They were paid speeches.[5]


Closing

Again, Ben Carson’s written the book on politics—multiple times. In closing, I will let Ambassador C. Boyden Gray do the talking, taking an excerpt of his forward to Ben Carson’s book A More Perfect Union (emphasis by me):

As an ambassador, I have expertise in law and diplomacy, and it’s rare to see someone who understands the challenges of government as well as Dr. Carson does. Though he has never held office, Dr. Carson has insight into the causes of our nation’s problems that is keener than that of most elected officials’. He sees how essential a proper understanding of the Constitution is to America’s freedom, and that’s why I’m so excited to see this book.


References

[1] http://www.newsmax.com...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org...

[3] https://www.facebook.com...

[4] http://biography.yourdictionary.com...

[5] http://www.breitbart.com...

Debate Round No. 3
Reformist

Pro

Oh lol I think I misclicked Democrat Party. Its fixed now

Anyway on to the issues

Putting the government in healthcare is not as bad as 33000 gangs roaming around the US and 1.4 million criminals participating in violent crimes.

To say that Obamacare is worst thing since slavery you have to look at the history of the US. Heck there was just an abortion clinic shooting just the other day because republicans like Carly Fiorina provoke people.

Like I said if you think WW1 and WW2 was good for americans than Obamacare you are just factually wrong and that is an insult to the troops that have died or have been maimed fighting that war.

Next about Homosexuality

I don't care that he apologized. He said it. You cant use a double standard. If Obama said something and later apologized Fox News or really any conservative would just hound on that point for basically his entire term service.

Homosexuality is not a choice

http://www.apa.org...

That is from the American Psychology Association. Ben Carson's biblical beliefs do not somehow trump the American psychologist association (who have studied and interviewed many LGBT members)

Obama is a socialist

Ben Carson makes MULTIPLE references that Obama is socialist. Here are some links to show you what he is really inferring.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org...
http://cnsnews.com...

Socialism is ownership of the People

I get my information of leading socialist activists and what they are fighting for in Britian and US. There has never been a socialist state

Ill give you some links to their websites

http://www.worldsocialism.org...

This one is a article of what they stand for: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Many Americans are Stupid:

I admit I was wrong when I said most. That was a fault on me and the voters shall penalize me for that. But he still insulted "Many Americans" you don't say that and expect to be taken seriously. When Mitt Romney said 47 percent of Americans just wont take care of themselves, that was one of his downfalls.

Pyramids, Stabbings

Like I said when you run for highest office of America you need simple understanding of the world and not a warped religious view on the world. If he thinks those are grain storages what will he think of other things? And in his book he is being proved that he didn't stab his friend and he is actually DEFENDING that he stabbed his friend.

Mannatech: He basically endorsed the product and said that It worked well for him. So well It would cure your problems. That's endorsement

https://reverbpress.com...

Closing Statement: Ben Carson shows little to no political experience and cannot be elected president and expected to act competently
Kilk1

Con

Below were Pro’s points in his last argument:

1. Saying that Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery is false, as history shows.

2. “I don't care that [Ben Carson] apologized. He said it. You cant use a double standard.” (Note: I, Con, am not sure if “He said it” refers to saying that 1) homosexuality is a choice or 2) all gays come from prison.)

3. Socialism is the lack of government.

4. While Carson did not say that “most” Americans are stupid, he did say that “many” are.

5. Since his “warped religious view on the world” causes Carson to think the pyramids are grain storages, there could also be political things he believes that are stupid.

6. “[I]n his book he is being proved that he didn't stab his friend and he is actually DEFENDING that he stabbed his friend.”

7. Carson endorsed Mannatech’s product, thus lying.

8. “Ben Carson shows little to no political experience and cannot be elected president and expected to act competently.”

Saying that Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery is false, as history shows.

What does the fact that Carson said, “Obamacare is … the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. And ... it is slavery in a way, because it is making all of us subservient to the government” mean? Are we to believe that Ben Carson’s focus was on thinking about every single thing that has happened since the implementation of the Thirteenth Amendment and saying that none of that is as bad as Obamacare? Or was his main focus on comparing Obamacare to slavery?

If it’s the latter—merely comparing Obamacare to slavery, in the sense that it’s “making all of us subservient to the government”—then this would make him no less stupid than the person who got a new, state-of-the-art toaster and said, “This new toaster is the greatest invention since sliced bread.” Sliced bread was invented in 1928,[1] while the Internet was invented decades later. If I attempted to debate against you, Pro, over whether or not this person was “really stupid”—and if I said that this person is stupid, while you said he isn’t— would it be valid for me to tell you, “Go a year without sliced bread. For most people, that’s way easier than going half that time (6 months) without the Internet. No email, no social media (not that I use it myself), no online gaming, no online videos such as those watched through YouTube—why, we couldn’t even be debating online right now without the Internet. The Internet is way more useful, both in things as important as the government or things as simple as everyday life. Therefore, the person who said, ‘This new toaster is the greatest invention since sliced bread,’ is really stupid”? Just because someone says, “A is the best/worst thing since B” doesn’t mean we have to think about every single thing that’s gone on—in history, science, etc.—and decide whether such is the case.

Again, Ben Carson may have meant that in some sense, Obamacare is worse than everything that’s happened since slavery. But such was not shown to be the case by Pro. Therefore, the point is invalid.

“I don't care that [Ben Carson] apologized. He said it. You cant use a double standard.”

If you mean that Carson’s “really stupid” for believing that homosexuality’s a choice, then it would only be an argument in favor of Carson being scientifically stupid, not politically stupid. Even the APA—which you referenced—while claiming that “most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation,” does answer the question “What causes a person to have a particular sexual orientation?” by saying, “There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a ... gay orientation. ... no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors.”[2] Again, though, that’s another debate, as this one is over Carson being politically stupid.

If you’re still saying that Carson said that all homosexuals—every single one of them—have come from prison, he said that we can’t say homosexuals are “born that way,” because when some people go to prison heterosexual, they come out homosexual. Birth wasn’t a factor. He NEVER in the reference you gave said that every single homosexual has come from prison. Using vegetarianism to illustrate again (don’t ask me why), say someone comes up to me and declares, “Vegetarians are emotionally incapable of drinking milk.” If I debunk such a view by citing the fact that there are vegetarians living on ranches that drink milk, am I saying that all vegetarians—every single one of them—come from ranches? That’s absurd! That’s “really stupid,” not Carson. A vegetarian may or may not be from a ranch. In the same way, just because Carson debunked the claim that all homosexuals are “born that way” by citing the fact that some heterosexuals become homosexuals in prison, doesn’t mean he said that every single homosexual has come from prison; not at all!

Socialism is the lack of government.

Ben Carson’s not talking about what that UK reference said; his meaning fits what that Merriam-Webster reference I gave said. That’s what he means, and that’s what it’s understood to mean, as far as I know. For example, in that CNS reference you gave as an attempt to prove he called Obama a socialist, he compared Obamacare (which involves government intervention) to “socialized medicine” and said that “socialized medicine is the keystone of the arch to the socialist state.”

While Carson did not say that “most” Americans are stupid, he did say that “many” are.

Well, who wouldn’t agree? There are many stupid people out there. To me—unless you have evidence to prove otherwise—it seems more stupid to disagree with that statement than it is to believe it.

Since his “warped religious view on the world” causes Carson to think the pyramids are grain storages, there could also be political things he believes that are stupid.

Logically speaking, this statement is a formal fallacy known as the appeal to possibility or probability. It’s where you assume that if something possibly or probably will happen, then it absolutely will happen. Just because Carson’s views of the pyramids may mean he’ll perform stupid political actions doesn’t prove that he will, in fact, perform stupid political actions. Again, since the view is not directly related to political policy, if it would hurt his political career, it would have already hurt is medical career. Also, if he has all these absurd political views that will make our nation into a wreck if he’s president, such views would already have been exposed; the media’s been trying everything in their power to find such.

“[I]n his book he is being proved that he didn't stab his friend and he is actually DEFENDING that he stabbed his friend.”

You failed to verify any of this with sources; rather, you merely asserted them.

Carson endorsed Mannatech’s product, thus lying.

Yeah, he said it’s a good product. But that’s not a lie; he clarified that in his answer about Mannatech; using that Breitbart source again, let me bring it up what he said:

Well, that’s easy to answer. I didn’t have an involvement with them. ... Do I take the product? Yes. I think it’s a good product.

If he were attempting to lie and say that he never endorsed Mannatech’s product, he wouldn’t have just did it on national television any time recently; instead, he would have left out those last two sentences.

“Ben Carson shows little to no political experience and cannot be elected president and expected to act competently.”

If lack of political experience means that Carson’s politically stupid and cannot be president, then hopefully you were consistent in 2008 and told the Democrats that Barack Obama “shows little to no political experience and cannot be elected president and expected to act competently."

Thank you, and vote Con!

References

[1] http://www.chillicothecity.org...

[2] http://www.apa.org...

Debate Round No. 4
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Seagull 1 year ago
Seagull
I read further haha. Point is well taken.
Posted by Kilk1 1 year ago
Kilk1
@Seagull Let's put it this way: If someone were to call him a socialist, it would not be enough grounds to make that person politically "stupid."
Posted by Seagull 1 year ago
Seagull
Kilk1' do you really think President Obama is a socialist?
Posted by bballcrook21 1 year ago
bballcrook21
I like how he says Carson is stupid when it comes to politics, but mentions what he said about the Pyramids. Last I checked, Pyramids isn't politics.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
I apologize, Airmax was going to post this and I ended up doing so myself, which makes it look like he didn't review my vote in my stead. I'll make sure he posts on it as well.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: whiteflame// Mod action: NOT Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Given in comments.

[*Reason for non-removal*] The voter clearly explains their decision, making the vote sufficient. The reporter cites "bad reasons" as the problem, but these reasons are unclear.
************************************************************************
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
RFD (Representing the Voter's Union):

There really isn't much to say on this debate, mainly because most of it is red herrings. The resolution is "Ben Carson is really stupid", and Pro clarified that he's "really stupid when it comes to politics" in his first round. As such, anything that doesn't relate to his political views is immediately off the table, which includes the statement on the pyramids, and both statements with regards to the hammer and stabbing. All of these might reflect a general stupidity, but they do not directly showcase political stupidity, and as such don't affirm the resolution. Similarly, the gays argument turns into one of scientific rather than political knowledge, and as such has no bearing on his political stupidity (or lack thereof).

That just leaves 3 points:

1) Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery

Frankly, I don't think this one meets the resolution either. If this was just about determining whether Obamacare was bad or not, and the factual nature of his views, then we'd be getting somewhere. Instead, Pro turns this into a "Ben Carson doesn't understand history" point, and, once again, that doesn't prove Carson's stupidity with regards to politics.

2) Obama is a socialist

This comes closer, though again, it seems to be just slightly off of politics. Instead, Pro is criticizing his ability to understand what socialism is. That's social science, but not politics. Even if I did treat it as a political issue, though, I think Con does enough in the debate to show that Obama meets certain definitions of socialism that are reasonable within the context of this debate, making it difficult to give Pro much ground here.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
3) Most Americans are stupid

Now, this is a political issue. Now we're focused on Carson getting himself elected, and as statements like this could badly affect his campaign, it could be called stupid to make them. The trouble is that Con corrects the statement to a point that it's no longer clear that this is a terribly stupid statement. Perhaps it's a statement that would lead to some people disliking him, and in that regard, it's not a tactically solid statement. On the other hand, Con tells me that this level of honesty is something many would agree with, making me question whether it would have any significant effect on his prospects of getting elected. I suppose I could view this in a different way: that Carson was factually incorrect about thevoting population, but that would require that Pro had proved that. Con showed that he was likely accurate, so I'm more inclined to view this as factual.

Conclusion:

I think this is pretty lopsided. Pro just doesn't do enough to prove the resolution he constructed true. Con doesn't do a lot to prove it false, mainly just focusing on awards and positions that Carson has had, though that at least invites doubt that Carson is really the dullard that Pro makes him out to be. Beyond that, even if some of these examples had been relevant to his political IQ, I'm still not sure it would have been enough to net Pro this debate. Even if Con had made no arguments, I'd still be questioning why isolated statements made by Carson prove that, overall, he's not smart when it comes to politics. It would insinuate that there's a few pegs loose, but not that he's completely lost his marbles. I was looking for patterns, but all I got was isolated points that seem difficult to connect with any sort of coherence. Perhaps if Pro had directly linked stupidity on basic history and science to stupidity in the political sphere, things would be different. But he didn't, and his failure to meet his burden of proof nets Con the debate.
Posted by Kilk1 1 year ago
Kilk1
@Reformist I'll ask some of the reliable people like whiteflame if they will be able to vote.
Posted by Reformist 1 year ago
Reformist
Huh no voters?

Wonder why?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
ReformistKilk1Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Given in comments.