The Instigator
RepublicanView333
Pro (for)
Losing
51 Points
The Contender
cody30228
Con (against)
Winning
88 Points

Best Country in the World

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2008 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,697 times Debate No: 1391
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (22)
Votes (40)

 

RepublicanView333

Pro

Now this debate is going to be a tricky one...

I will now lay the ground works:

It is 5 rounds long

Pro-con means nothing

It is one what you think is the greatest country ever in the world

Not currently Ever. Based on accomplishments, victories (wars), its goverment make up, culture, etc. anything you think makes that country the greatest evr.

The first round will be like this. i will name a country i think is great in my opening argument, Then my opponent will name onew he thinks is great and leave it at that, it is similiar to this debate (please look at it for reference),:

http://www.debate.org...

Then in the next round (2-5) we will start discussing what makes the country great.

Now don't except just to trash the country i have named b/c that is not the topic of the debate. Tell me your country then tell me why yours is better than mine.

O.K. i thinmk i can get started:

I believe the United States of America (USA) is the best country ever. Beased on its goverment make-up, accomplishments, etc., etc., ect.

i will leave it at that giving my opponent whoever that might be a chance to state his/her best country, and remember do not back it up until your next round...
cody30228

Con

Ok, the United States of America is a country I am proud of living in. Don't get me wrong.

I believe the best country in all of existence so far is:

1933 – 1945 Nazi Germany
Please let me tell everyone I am not anti-semitic in any way. But the evidence in the strength of the Nazi military, economy, social revolutions and geography are amazing

Now let me ask you a question.
Are we going to be
a) saying why our country is good and leave voting up to voters comparing
b) saying why our opponents country is bad
or
c) saying who's country is better
Debate Round No. 1
RepublicanView333

Pro

First of all thank you for following the ground works for the debate
Second to answer your question we are trying to see who better displays whose country is best, while trying to also compare the two countries side by side. Not a simple task so I hope you're up to the challenge.

Now to the debate:

Now just in comparing the countries side by side mine is better. Just by the fact my country beat yours in war in that period…WW2…but there are also some other things…my country lasted 200 years. Yours lasted a period of not even 15 years…Your country was built on hate for Jews…mine was built on liberty, life and the pursuit of happiness.

The United States started as 13 colonies and eventually quadrupled in size in less than 100 years.

The United States fought off Great Britain in the Revolutionary War, the greatest superpower of the time.

The United States wrote a constitution, originally the Articles of Confederation. The failure of the Articles prompted the U.S, to right a new constitution the Declaration of Independence that still stands to this day.

The United States doubled it size quickly w/ the Louisiana Purchase and sent excavators into it to find the Pacific something it did successfully.

The United States fought a War w/ Mexico and added the Republic of Texas

The United States fought a war w/ itself, and successfully ended those ended that and resolve it and continued its greatness to today.

The United States lead a Industrial Revolution and connected its whole country w/ a railroad, developed the cotton gin, the steam boat, interchangeable parts, etc. These innovations opened the door for all the technology we have 2day.

The United States fought in the First World War and came out ending on the victorious side.

The United States fell into a great depression, but rebounded nicely into WW2

The United States fought in the Second World War and took down your country the Nazi Germany and took down the Nazis and Communism in Germany for the most part.

The United States was the first to land on the Moon and established NASA and innovated some of the most groundbreaking astronomical astronomy discoveries.

The United States secured Kuwait, and slowed Saddams tyranny.

The United States established one of the most successful governments ever, not dominated by one political party like many other governments, but two political parties, the Republicans, and Democrats.

This is only some of the many great accomplishments the United States accomplished…I didn't go into detail since I don't want to run out of fire power for the 3 other rounds after this, so good luck.
cody30228

Con

Let me summarize your achievements
1. Expansion
2. Military success
3. Technological innovation
4. Successful bi-partisan government
5. Ability to solve problems

and then some comments above longevity and ideals

1.Expansion
while the United States grew 4 times in 100 years, Nazi Germany grew four times in less than 15. It reached from

ssible. This is evident in the advancements in technology and economy during a small period of 13 or so years.

5. Ability to solve problems
You mention Civil War and stopping Saddam.
Nazi Germany need an army. They made one.
They had too high unemployment, they lowered it from 6 million to almost nothing
They were not faced with a civil war because nationalism was very high

As said, Nazi only ended because of bad luck and a stupid decision by Hitler. The USA is very young by world standards.

Ideals ideals ideals. Why is liberty good? Why does this belief make the United States a better country. I'm sorry. I don't buy into democracy and liberty is better than fascism. I don't. Prove it.

Some other things Nazi Germany did
Economy

Lowered unemployment

created public works jobs

huge industrial boom

Workers were offered cut-price holidays, theater trips and concerts. In Berlin, 1933–38, the KdF sponsored 134,000 events for 32 million people (2 million went on cruises & weekend trips, and 11 million on theater trips).

The government made sure that everybody could get a cheap radio.

I could go into a list of inventions developed by the government. But I will hold that until later rounds too.

Basically, everything the USA did, Nazi Germany did better, and in less time.
Debate Round No. 2
RepublicanView333

Pro

O.k.

This is going better than i thought w/ a opposing country i never expected...this will be fun...

Now I will say it again...Nazi Germany was established in 1933, Germany was established in the the 8th century That's more than 1000 years apart, Germany was once made up of the territories of Germany, Austria, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, West Poland, the Low Countries, Eastern France, Switzerland, and most of Northern Italy, so even before Nazi Germany the Holy "Roman Empire of the German Nation" was bigger and better than its Nazi counterpart. This goes with the expansion. When Nazi Germany was introduced it already had its border, unlike the U.S.

Nazi Germany was formed on the bases of Lebensraum, or,"Aryan" racial purity, anti-Semitism, revenge for Germany's territorial losses at the Treaty of Versailles. The United States was formed on the bases of Democracy, Capitalism and Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Now this is very important. You state:

"Ideals ideals ideals. Why is liberty good? Why does this belief make the United States a better country. I'm sorry. I don't buy into democracy and liberty is better than fascism. I don't. Prove it."

The U.S. was built where anyone can come into this country and lead a normal life...legally...(for those who know me best)...Now in Nazi Germany a Jew, Gypsy,...gay..., or anyone not a true human in Hitler's eyes could live there and lead a life...never mind a normal one.

By the end of the war, Germany's major infrastructure was destroyed (very much at the hands of my superior country)— and many of its major cities were in ruin as the result of Allied(aka United States, though not only allie but big one) bombings and intense urban warfare (especially in Berlin, there capitol, in 1945). In the War of 1812 the U.S. capitol was at similar attack to that of Berlin but even it wasn't in this much ruin.

Now on your other points...

"5. Ability to solve problems
You mention Civil War and stopping Saddam.
Nazi Germany need an army. They made one.
They had too high unemployment, they lowered it from 6 million to almost nothing
They were not faced with a civil war because nationalism was very high"

Nazi Germany already had an army when Hitler took over. They didn't make one...Nazi Germany was a form of one country (germany...a unsuccessful form...(only lasting 13 years)
They lowered there unemployment b/c of there Communist ways...they gave everyone compensation, but they also told them what to do and how to do it...evidently not the successful way...cough cough only lasting 13 years...
Yes, "nationalism" was very high b/c of the FEAR...people where scared to be against the government...Hitler took down political opposers and anyone who threatened his tyranny and through them into concentration camps (similar to what Saddam and Castro did/does to anyone opposing them...Jew or not...cough cough Holocaust read up on it

This is different than the U.S. b/c of the Freedom of Speech we have. We are not dominated by one party. There are two parties w/ 2 very different povs who control the government...checks and balances...This makes the U.S. a ever changing, ever opportunity giving country that stomps all others.

"As said, Nazi only ended because of bad luck and a stupid decision by Hitler. The USA is very young by world standards."

Now yes Hitler made some very stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. SSSTTTUUUPPPIIIDDD, mistakes but that wasn't what lead to the downfall of Nazi Germany (even if it is many of the reasons)...The U.S.'s superior forces and superiority was what took them down.
So.........the 200 year old U.S. is a "young country" in world standards...so what would a 13 year old(omg my age:-p) be...a fetus...hahahahahahah

"Lowered unemployment"
Communism
"created public works jobs"
Communism

Now Communism is a big thing in this.
Communism essentially gives everyone the same pay, social class and stateless societies. (now im going off my vague recollections of World Geography class last year so i may be a little shaky) Commie citizens get the same pay no matter the value of there work...This would essentially lower unemployment, and create public jobs.

"huge industrial boom"
Now please in your next round explain the ummm "boom" of it...tell me sum inventions...similar to like i did.

"The government made sure that everybody could get a cheap radio"
Wow...my government got me a cheap radio...so i could hear Hitler's suicide note broadcasted over the masses...big whoop...a radio really makes one country better than another...

"Basically, everything the USA did, Nazi Germany did better, and in less time"

Have you ever hear the expression "better done right than fast"...Well this is a perfect place for it...
Hitler and the "founders"(can barely call them that" used scotch tape and Elmer's glue and rusty nails to built Nazi Germany...a quick fix after the First World War, But after some weight and tension in WW2 it fell apart...

The United States is built of a strong concrete foundation...aka, the Constitution...and built with Pressure treated wood that can withstand the toughest wars...the Revolutionary, Civil, Spanish American, WW1-2, Vietnam, Gulf...And a strong roof that can hold with the most massive snow, rain, sleet, and hailstorm thrown at it...Hilary Clinton...and finished with a nice Red White and Blue coat of Liberty :'-)
cody30228

Con

Yes this will be an interesting debate

There is one point I would like to make before I dive into the countries.

a)Nazi Germany laying in ruins and being destroyed at the end of the war has nothing to do how great the nation is. Why? Because as I described earlier, it was of no fault to the nation itself, but a military mistake in strategy and some bad luck. If the United States was attacked by a nuclear warhead from China today, and NY City laid in ruins, would you say it was not a great city? No. First, when you initiated this debate, you said any country from history. If the country is FROM history, obviously it has risen and fallen. So you knew that the country might already be destroyed. Anyway, my point is you can't use the fact the Nazi Germany fell as an argument against it.

With that said, let me begin

1. Nazi Germany had border and USA did not.
This is actually an argument in my favor. The fact the Nazi Germany had borders also means that the countries around it had borders. Thus, for the Nazi's to expand, they had to capture it from people who owned it. Nations who owned it. Nations who could and did go to war. The United States had no borders, so it had no one to fight against except Indians. And the Indians were not a country that could completely band together. So I agree with the facts, but the significance obviously leans to my favor.

2. Ideals
The reason I said ideals did not matter is because they are inter-subjective. Please do not make me have a side debate with you over morality and communism in this large debate. Not everyone shares the same ideals. USA once had slavery. USA put thousands of Japanese CITIZENS in internment camps very similar to the Nazis. The USA did not treat early German and Irish immigrants well. Do not talk to me about ideals of the countries. Why? Because both were at fault and the impact of both are inter-subjective. Not always will democracy be looked at as a good thing. The Middle East hates it. So unless you want to debate who communism, holocaustic events, and ideals are good or bad ( and that would take a LONG time), let's skip those arguments.

3. Destruction
Look at the first thing I say in this round

4. We are using bits and pieces of previous rounds so numbering my fluctuate 

5. Problem Solving
Hitler did make an army from almost nothing. After WWI, the German army was nothing
"After the Great Depression struck, more Germans were attracted to Hitler's promises to improve the economy, defy the hated Treaty of Versailles, and rebuild Germany's military power"
http://www.cybergerman.addr.com...
There is more he did in the military, but this I will include in technological innovations.
You attack communism. As said above, we do not know if communism is truly bad. But the fact still stands, he initiated social reforms, as I said above like giving benefits to all workers. Unemployment was very very low. You agree. What is the United States track record on unemployment? Laughable.

Nationalism was supported because of the people's support for Hitler. They saw the economy improve, they saw their border's expand. They saw the positive social reforms. And they saw the Jews as the enemy. Nationalism was strong because the country was great, and the people knew it.

6. Government
"This is different than the U.S. b/c of the Freedom of Speech we have. We are not dominated by one party. There are two parties w/ 2 very different povs who control the government...checks and balances...This makes the U.S. a ever changing, ever opportunity giving country that stomps all others."
-Your wise words of wisdom, let them be, let them be. 
The United States two party system that you idolize is corrupt and not very representative. Here is my proof.
Can anyone remember a candidate not supporting the cutting of spending?
Can anyone remember a candidate not supporting change (besides incumbents)?
Lobbyists are able to exploit our system because it is two party. Nazi Government never had to cater to special interest groups because they did not need the money.
Why is nothing done in a speedy manner in America? Because The democrats and republicans always slow things down if they don't like it. Nazi Government, as one party, did not spend forever on changes, because they were unified.
Any finally, if two party systems are so great why is front-runner Obama and Huckabee both supporting vertical politics? Both supporting a coming together of the two-parties into one party? Our system, I am sorry, is deeply flawed.

7. Military
The United Stats, did not crush Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany, led by Hitler, made the stupid mistake of constantly expanding and thinning out his troops. The USA waited until France and Russia and England had already done most of the work. But as said above, this issue does not matter in the grand scheme of things.

8. Economy
Communism, read above. And yes, you are slightly wrong. But it doesn't matter. Because the people in the USSR would look at you like democracy was the devil. All inter-subjective. Do you want to read my socialism is good debate?
http://www.debate.org...

9. Technological Innovation
Go here please. I couldn't not fit it in the character limit. Just scroll down and you will see it.
http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk...

You ended with one main point
a)Nazi Germany was a quick fix while the USA was stable
Is that true? As I have proved above, Nazi Germany had a stable economy, stable society, and stable government. The USA is not stable. Let's go start from now and go back. Riots to War in Iraq. Assassination of President JFK, and others. Anit-war riots for Vietnam. Women's rights riots. Slavery revolts. Civil War ( the US coming back from this only shows that it was held together very weakly before ) , over one-hundred amendments to the Constitution. Failed Articles of Confederation.

Here are my reasons why Nazi Germany is a MUCH better t country that the United States
1.More territorial expansion is more difficult lands to acquire
2.Very superior economy
3.Powerful government
4.Many technological innovations
5.Ability to fix problems

My opponent cannot boast these things at the same magnitude as Nazi Germany
Debate Round No. 3
RepublicanView333

Pro

The point i made about Berlin lying in ruins wasn't a attack on its greatess. It was a comparison to a similiar attack on the U.S. in 1812...In 1812 the U.S. was similiar to Nazi Germany, a new country that was trying a totally new brand of goverment (Nazi's Communism, U.S. democracy) The U.S. ws fighting the superpower of the tyme (Great Britian) and the Nazis were fighting the superpower of the time( and still, the U.S.) The White House was burned to the ground and really it lay in ruin like Berlin did some 100+ years later. The U.S. didn't really let it set them back and they continued to fight and even though the u.s. didn't win (it ended with tie b/c the treaty was signed b4 General Andrew Jackson defeated the Brits which really would of defeated the Brits [slow mail...no email or phones]) The U.S. rebuilt and proved it was a grand nation and would eventually be the best. The Germans had the same situation superpower fighting them, there capitol leveled but that really set them back and for them signalled defeat rather in the U.S. it was motivation to up end the new nation.
Cody while i respect your opinion i believe that it isn't a "arguement in your favor" The Germans area which they took was heavily Germen ethnicity such as Austria, the Sudetenland and the territory of Memel. The other regions were sympathizers w/ the Nazi's...yes the German fought for land but contrary to your belief it wasn't as easy as the germans.
The United States first had to get the Louisiana Purchase. Thomas Jefferson bought it from France while the U.S. and france had a cold war with each other. Napolean sold it to us, but it wasn't "easily aquired" Then the territory of Texas...we had a fight wit hthe Mexicans over that and it was a very bloody andf extreme war, at the Battle of the Alamo the U.S. Texan soldiers run out of Ammo and are preety much slaughtered, no Americans survived xcept for a few women and children. Then it was the Indians the Indians contrary to how you describe "not a country that could completely band together" actually the Indians were some of the toughest b/c of there knowledge of the landscape and there were so many:
Cherokee
Seminol
Creeks
Mandan
Crow
Chinook
Tillamook
Clatsop
Salishan
Blackfeet
Assiniboine
Crow
Hidatsa
Yankton Sioux
Arikara
Teton Sioux
Ponca
Omaha
Otoe
Kaw
Missouri
Osage
Yakama
Umatilla
Walla Walla
Nez Perce
Flathead
Wishram
Wanapum
Palouse
Cayuse
Klickitat
Methow
These are only a few out of the thousands that gave us greif about sitating on there land. And there being divided in my eyes was harder for us...unlike one nation were they were in one direct area they were scattered all over the nation...Have you heard the expression "If you take me down there will be another one there to replace me and if you take him down, another will take his/her place...etc" that was what it was like
Believe me i would perfer not to debate you on ideals or communism...but it believe its very important in this one (ideals). First about the Japs. It was justified to put them in those camps (in that time not now but in that time/ we were at war w/ japan and who knew who was a spy or who was clean. We didn't go to the extent of killing them...Nazi Germany genocided 4 million Jews, gays,etc./ not as bad as slavery (slavery is horrible, but we came to our senses...didn't we...yes...
Do you not think we didn't problem solve tons of things,:
How to rewrite Constitution after Articles of Confederation
our goverment, what goverment plan to use, Virginia Plan or New Jersey Plan really how many branches and legislatures from each state...etc

Comprimise of 1850

Missouri Comprimise

slavery, north vs. south

Reconstructing after civil war

womens rights, blacks rights

WW1

The Great depression (We handled that to...)

WW2 fighting you and japan

Cold War, Civil Rights movement

Cuban Missle Crisis

9/11 :'-(

We've dealt wit hmuch and still conserved the Union for 232 years.
The difference between Capitolism and Communism is Capitolism works when its citizens work to earn there money, and they get paid what there work is worth. Communism makes jobs for its workers to lower umemployment, Capitolism works when the goverment doesn't interfere w/ its workers...work. If jobs are low the goverment lets its citizens work it out...Giving its citizens more financial independence and freedom...Im not saying Communism is bad...but you can't not take into account ones economy when saying ones country is better than another...by this i mean that the economys system doesn't make one economt better than another...much like it doesn't make ones country better.
The Germans were brainwashed into that...Hitler saw the Jews success and the countrys failure and made some false connections and essentiallymade the Jews the enemy...The Jews were falsly blamed for the Germans fall and the germans took it out on them...it was unjustified and pretty much i could make a case that the Nazi's whole...rise was built on hate for the jews...Hitler blamed the Jews for Germanys fall, Hitler used that to gain control of Germany, He built concentration camps and torch 4 million jews and and then the U.S. defeat them and saved the Jews that really pulled the plug on Nazi Germeny...I kno it isn't that easy but it essentially is the simplistic explanation
Again I deeply respect your opinion but again i must disagree. in a one party system where one party dominates it wan become more corrupt and one sided. If the Nazis supported poisoning the jews and the major majority was Nazi what about the others, that oppose, there voice isn't heard and there is no voice of reason. In a two party system there are two sides and there isn't one opinion being dominated. hence with Bush, The war started and most supported it, but in 8 years there are some differences in opinion, In a one party system we could be stuck fighting a hopeless war (i don't believe that I believe the war is a success and Bush deserves credit backing up his beliefs through the hardest opposition) that were stuck in b/c there's no opposition challenging ones decision. I'll say it again "Better done right' who cares if some legislation takes a month to finish rather than a week...his way it is adjusted the right way instead of rushed through with errors.
The Nazi G.s invent alot but here's a nice little list of what the U.S. did:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I to didn't have room so please look over my list which i believe consists of more widely used international inventions. Your list is impressive but most of your inventions have been improved and overshadowed while more of mine have lasted decades, some even centuries, bifocals, rifridgerator, coffee pot, sewing machine, revolver, etc, etc.
Now what i mean is that many of yours has been replaced with more efficient different devices,
wishbone cannon, geophones, Fischer Tropche process, injesting backteria-cure gut problems, chemical enhncing soldiers, many of your is still used to day but many are outdated...
Now what really is a arguemant in my favor is you last one about the U.S. being Unstable...The u.s. coming bac kfrom the Civil War only supports its ability to rebound and continue in the way to success, All the riots signify our free speech which makes everyone equal and there right to there opinion, 100 amendments only means the U.S. can fix whats wrong and find a new and better policy, and in every society there are situations like JFK, murdering of Bhutto in Pakistan, Hitlers suicide which took place in your country...( :-/...

Here are my reasons to say the U.S. is the greatest country:
1. 232 years exsistence
2. Using a fairly new goverment idea (democracy)to success
3. Being able to correct it self and rebounnd
4. One of the greatest militaries ever
5. quadrupiling its size in provenly hard areas
6. More technical innovations
(ran out of space)
cody30228

Con

a)
The fall of Berlin was what made Nazi Germany fall.
Other contributing factors NOT in the war of 1812
-Invasion from all sides by USA and Russia
-Hitler (leader of Nazi) shot himself and Germany was leaderless
-Britain wanted war to end due to internal political support for America. American and Russia wanted Nazi Germany to be destroyed
-Magnitude of warfare (air and advanced sea) not shared in 1812 and WWII

1. Expansion
The closest surrounding areas were Nazi sympathizers. France, Russia, and Northern Europe were not. These areas Nazi Germany did have to use force to invade.
The Louisiana Purchase was actually good for France. Why? Napoleon was worried Britain would invade France and take Louisiana for free. Thus, they sold it for money. Furthermore, they didn't need it. It was there to provide food for French Haiti, which went through a revolution and was liberated from France.
Alamo and Texas's independence was not Mexico versus USA but Mexico versus the Republic of Texas. So no, American citizens were not slaughtered at the Alamo. And Texas wanted to be part of the USA.
Indians were numerous, but not powerful or unified. American's had gunpowder, Indians did not. America had a unified front, the Indians did not. The ONLY thing Indians had was knowledge of landscape. But America had more numbers, and wanted war, Indians only wanted peace.
So I stand, Nazi Germany had a tougher time expanding than America.

2. Ideals
You just justified the putting of a whole race in internment camps and enslaving a whole race! I am not agreeing with what Hitler did, but you can not say one injustice is worse than another! I bet slaves or Japanese prisoners would disagree with you here. So yes, both sides committed horrible crimes, so we should not debate them. Furthermore, the extent of these crimes depends on who you are.

3. Problem solving
How to rewrite Constitution after Articles of Confederation
our goverment, what goverment plan to use, Virginia Plan or New Jersey Plan really how many branches and legislatures from each state...etc
Good problem solving? The scandals of the Gilded Age of American turned our politics all around. They showed the flaws in our system.

Comprimise of 1850
Good problem solving? Civil War still happened

Missouri Comprimise
Good problem solving? It was removed soon after.

slavery, north vs. south
Good problem solving? Started a war.

Reconstructing after civil war
Good problem solving? Was never finished so Jim Crow Laws and Pressy versus Ferguson was passed.
womens rights, blacks rights
Good problem solving? They ignored Seneca Falls Convention, ignored Republican Motherhood, was only changed when women became violent. Black rights were ignored until riots. Government never took initiative.

WW1
Why is war a good compromise? We Formed the League of Nations which failed and led to WWII

The Great depression (We handled that to...)
Good problem solving? We handled the Great Depression by going to WWII and raising GDP. Furthermore, we solved it by enacting SOCILIAST measures and controlling civil service programs. Socialism good then huh?

WW2 fighting you and japan
Winning a war does not give proof that you have good problem solving skills.

Cold War, Civil Rights movement
Cold War was ended because Russia and the USA was afraid to nuke one another (Mutual Assured Destruction). Civil Right Movement was not sponsored by Government, but individuals rebelling.

Cuban Missle Crisis
Good problem solving. Yes, this ONE instance is.

9/11 :'-(
We are in Iraq, people hate it, Terrorism still exists, Bin Laden is still alive. Al-Quieda is still alive. Great problem solving skills there

Furthermore, you made no argument against Nazi Germany's problem solving, so all those arguments stand.

4.Economy
Instances of socialism being good.
-Ended Great Depression
-Creates welfare and healthcare and public infrastructure (like roads).
-Limits corruption between businesses
In Capitalism, people are payed less than they deserve
Teachers?
Police Men?
Fire fighters?
Soldiers?

Lawyers deserve a lot of money?
So do actors?
So do sports players?

Really….

Capitalism does leave the people to sort there problems out. Hence, labor unions, strike, and 200$ monthly cuts from Texas Teachers to fund the union.

"by this i mean that the economys system doesn't make one economt better than another...much like it doesn't make ones country better."
So lets not debate it…like I said.

5. Government
Once again, everyone committed crimes, so both are guilty. We can also blame the USA for having the power to stop it but doing nothing until they were attacked…
A one-party government commits bad deeds and good deeds. A two-party government commits almost no deeds at all. Look at women's right. No legislation was passed from the begin of women's right (1775) to the today (still inequalities in pay between women and men). Those weeks turn into months, which turn into years, which turn into decades and centuries. There is still debate in a one-party system. Take a look at democratic party alone. Hilary wants universal healthcare, Obama does not. WOW! Debate in one-party! So there is still debate in one-party to combat injustice, but more is done.

6. Technological Innovation
No duh! Nazi Germany is not alive to improve apon them. The USA still is. But your list spans over 2 centuries, while Nazi Germany lasted a little over a decade. Bout a 20 to 1 ratio of time, yet both equally impressive list.

7. Stability
USA took many years to come back from the Civil war. Hence a few decades of reconstruction. Stable means that there is a constant rate. Exmaple,
Stable line
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unstable line
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
A stable country would not need a war to fix itself. Thus, the USA was not stable if it had sooo many ups and down. And it did.

In response to your reasons why you win
1.How many times do we have to agree that the longevity of a country does not make it better
2.Corruption, war, hated. Not much success. Besides, Democracy started in Athens, many many many many many years ago.
3.Stability is better than Instability. That, and the fact and proved almost all of your problem solving skills bad.
4.Yes, one of the best, not the best.
5.With money and a dis-unified inferior nation
6.Yes, over 2 centuries

Reasons why I win
1. Expansion harder
2. Problem solving great (un-attacked)
3. Beneficial economy
4. Efficient government
5. Many new technologies
6. Stable nation
7. All this is under 15 year time!
8. None of my opponents arguments prove America is better than Nazi Germany. (Cauze it's impossible :))
Debate Round No. 4
RepublicanView333

Pro

Hello and Happy January 12,

The War of 1812 draws even more similarities i hadn't even noticed do to your notions and reasons the invasion and attacks on Nazi Germany are different.

-The Brits surrounded and invaded from all times, from the Great Lakes, the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico, and the Indian land to the West the Brits utilized those foreign lands and attacked from them all
-The United States Capitol was burned down and our leader James Madison couldn't lead properly, since he had no way to get his orders out
-the Brits wanted to take the U.S. down afraid of the new country to help Napolean and France
-Magnitude of Welfare is shown in War of 1812.l The brits Navy surrounded the U.S. from every Waterway making it unable to get dupplys from ally countrys, and taking all U.S. sailors captured into custidy and making them be Brit soldiers.

i never said all obtained areas were supportors of Nazi Germany were a majority of the lands Germany took over (look over named in last round). So? The French were scared to have a War with us over the land...They had many Wars happening and were scared to mess with President Jefferson. Similiar to some of the land Hitler got many countries were scared to fight Nazu Germany. The brave soldiers who died at the Alamo were American. They were americans who moved in to the Republic of Texas for land the Tejanos were handing out. But they were Americans. And they were fighting to take Texas into american hands. And the Indians were aLOT tougher than you make them sound. The Indians were very vicious. They had arrows, spears, and many DID have guns.

So I counter-stand the U.S. had a harder and more successful time expanding, than Nazi Germany

I can totally make one injustice worse than another. The Japs, we were at war with there mother country. How d owe don't know one of there spies took a short trip over the Pacific here and is listening to our news and mailing and calling and emailing info to Japan.; Now we now it is a extreme idea, but then it was justified. The Germans...they killed 4 million Jews. That can NEVEr be justified. all the lies Hitler can tell could never justify what Hitler did. All Nazi Germany is built on is the lies Hitler told to get to put himself in power and the slaying of the Jews, your injustices is way more injustified than mine.

All the "flaws" you pointed out in my problem solving (I won't rewrite and explain them) are false. The United States has proven through 232 years of conflict and comprimise the U.S. can hold itself together. The U.S. has fought with itself. It withstood that and lived some 150 more years. There is no possible way in any country, there will be no confict between interestss or rights...in your country there was a conflict of who should live...( :-/...

People paying les than deserved?

Teachers, since 1985 the teachers average pay has risen 40,000$
Police, get paid $35000...pretty comfortable in my mind...
Firefighter, $55000-$70000, with hospitalization and retirement
Soldiers, get paid 28,738.00-91,569.79, plus college, housing (in Connecticut there is a whole community for the Military familys and Soldiers right in Groton.)

In Communism these people would all be paid the same.

I don't want to be sexist but there are more men in high paying jobs so AVERAGE man salaries will be higher than women. So there are 1 million men and 1 million woman. 80,000 men are nowmal people who earn 50,000 dollars a year. Then the last 20,000 are athletes and actors and others that earn 1 million a year
The women. 95,000 are normal people who earn 50,000 a year. The other 5,000are actors and athletes who earn 1,000,000 a year.
Whos AVERAGE is higherwill be higher. There are tons more men playing sports earning millions a year drawing there dollars up and there are less woman. That really explains your "womens average pay" dilemma.

The stability is unfair, similiar to the inovations. Yours only lasted 15 years so there was less time for unstable ness so yours was like this

------------------------\/\/\/\/\_
-_
-_
-_done your countyr was over.

Since my county was 200 years old it had more time to do this:
-----------------------\/\/\/\/\-----------------\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\----------------\/\/\/\/\/\/\--------------- now if you look at some of the stable periods they lasted longer than your country un all. That is the advantages and disadvantages of a long lasting contry. Now I never said the U.S. was always stable but a great country is a country that can say hold on and slow down and fix itself and get itself back on track like the U.S....No country will ever be perfect or always---------------------but a greats country will be able to fix it self if it ever gets /\/\/\/\/\/
Now longivity of a country does of course make it a little more superior. If a country like Nazi Germany lives on cloud nine for 15 yers than disinagrates is it really better than a country that held itself together for centuries. Its like saying wood from Lowes is better than wood from Home Depot not because it doesn't mold and reck but b/c Lowes is Blue and everyone nows blue is better than orange...rether than Home Depots wood lasts long and is resistant but its orange...it doesn't make sense...you dig?

But democracy hadn't been seen for YEARS!!! and for them it was relitively new...

Well, My army evidently was better then your b/c it beat yours...

With a adventures heart and a will that can never be distroyed...

Now this is my last arguement of a very fun informative debate so Cody30228 i hope you had fun b/c i had fun provin my country superior.
cody30228

Con

a) 1812
Let me try to explain why we are even talking about the War of 1812. You simply began by stating that the USA faced the same perils Nazi Germany did during WWII. Here are reasons why they didn't
Only 6,000 or so British troops landed in Canada to invade
Almost all of Europe's armies invaded Nazi Germany
Blockade was quickly broken by ironclads
Anyway, I am not sure why this matters. If my opponent wins this argument, he proves that America survived a war that was close to a war Nazi Germany lost. But since Nazi Germany was fighting Russia, France, America, and other allied countries, the war of 1812 between Britain and USA is not very similar. This point has little impact on over all debate.
The key points to this debate are going to be:

1. Expansion
Battle of Alamo was for Texas independence, not TX admittance into union. An American moves to Mexico and becomes a Mexican citizen. Is he still belonging to America? Not if he switches citizenship.
Dis-unified Indians had arrows, spears, and some weak guns against a unified front of ALL advanced guns.
USA got land through money, through land wanting in, and through killing an weaker people. Nazi Germany got land though waging constant war against STRONG enemies, and some land through fear. If you compare the two, Nazi Germany had a harder time expanding.

2. Injustice
Tell Japanese people that America was not as unjustified as Nazi Germany. If you are anti-Semitic, you believe Hitler WAS justified. If you believe in paranoia, you believe the USA WAS justified. My point is, we come from similar cultures in America to believe we were right. But someone else on the other side of the world would believe different. The injustice created by one group is the same as another.

3. Problem Solving
All my attacks are false? That is not an attack. They are all true. Re-read them. I stand firmly WITHOUT attack that Nazi Germany solved problems better. Be it unemployment or sectionalism, Nazi Germany succeeded. Your conflict argument here should be under stability, so that's where I will attack it.

4. Economy
Are you still debating capitalism versus communism. You said last round, and I quote
"by this i mean that the economys system doesn't make one economt better than another...much like it doesn't make ones country better."
So why you still arguing it!
Yes actors get paid millions, sports stars get paid millions. Singers get paid million. Neither teachers nor police nor fire-fighters nor soldiers get paid half of that. There salaries are nothing compared to jobs that don't matter like acting and playing sports. THIS IS A FLAW IN CAPATILISM!
We need to look at the hard numbers your ignored. Unemployment. Nazi Germany had almost none, USA still has tons. Nazi Germany was able to FUND civil service programs while the USA still does not. Nazi Germanys economy is much better.

5. Government
You ignored this completely
USA two party system gets nothing done.
Nazi Germany's one party system got a lot done
Efficiency is better in Nazi Germany
Government ran by lobbyists in USA.
I win argument the Nazi Germany government better than USA.

6. Technology
You ignored this too.
Nazi Germany created more things in less time
Obviously, they had a higher technological innovation.
I win argument that Nazi Germany

7. Stability
First, innovations if not unfair, since you had the advantage. Stability is a fair argument. You brought it up. This is what Nazi Germany was like
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/\/
America was like this
/\/\/\/\/\/\-----/\/\/\/\/\/\/\--------/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\----/\/\/\/\/\-----/\/\/\/\/\/\/----/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Both countries went through internal disagreement. I debate who should live in Nazi Germany? You debate the same.
Death Penalty
Abortion
2nd Amendment
And, you debated
Same-sex marriage
War
Immigration

If stability is such an abusive argument, than fine, we will not debate stability. And everyone voting please do not vote off of this.

8. Random arguments
Longevity – Like I have said multiple times, Nazi Germany only failed because of Hitler being stupid. If the USA was destroyed tomorrow by a coalition from the EU, would you say USA was inferior to England, Spain, Germany, Italy, etc. No. Multiple weaker enemies destroying one Strong country does not make country weaker.
Democracy – England, House of Burgesses, elected. They wrote the Magna Carta and English Bill of Rights. That was not new
American democracy – Inspired by STILL ALIVE AT THE TIME John Locke.
Army – Your army did not beat mine. Your army, along with Russia, and England, and France, beat my country.
Adventures heart – What does that have to do with anything?

Now I should win this debate because
1. Expansion
US - easy time over 100 years
Nazi Germany - hard time over 15 years
Nazi Germany expanded more, in less time, in harsher conditions.

2. Problem Solving
US - still hasn't solved many problems
Nazi Germany - solved almost all of the civil problems
Nazi Germany solved a large percentage of issues, in less time.

3. Economy
US - raises unemployment, causes un-fair wages
Nazi Germany - lowered unemployment, funded civil service projects
Nazi Germany made positive trends in the economy while USA makes negative

4. Government
US - corrupt, slow
Nazi Germany - fast, efficient
Nazi Germany has an effective government that gets the job done

5. Technology
US - many innovation over 200 years
Nazi Germany - many innovations over 15 years
Nazi Germany created more in less time

As you can see, Nazi Germany is superior to America in expansion, problem-solving, economy, government, and technology.

Great debate, and good luck!
Debate Round No. 5
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rafael09ED 2 years ago
Rafael09ED
Really good debate guys, Some things I did not agree with, but cody30228 did a good job with his arguments
Posted by batman1200 5 years ago
batman1200
note, technically, America took total military of an entire country (Iraq) in less then three weeks (they had men all over, the only insurgents left alive were the ones who had hidden as a civilian, my source: Shooter: The Autobiography of the Top-Ranked Marine Sniper, by Sgt. Jack Coughlin
Posted by bignaked 8 years ago
bignaked
good things for pro:
that america is a moral country

good things for con:
that nazi germany kicked america's butt for expansion

however, cody30228, saying that freedom isn't a good thing is kinda...weird - i hope you don't actually think that

sorry, morality beats military power anyday! however, you were pretty clever, picking nazi germany, and i have to give it to you there...
Posted by Vikuta 9 years ago
Vikuta
The Cuban Missile Crisis was NOT handled well by the U.S. It was the most dangerous moment in human history. The Kennedy administration brought the world to the brink of disaster because of the arrogant belief that only the U.S. had the right to station missiles just outside of its enemy's border. I think it's funny that there was never a time when Kruschev said "we have pictures with evidence that the U.S. has placed missiles in Turkey." Just because the result wasn't disastrous doesn't mean that horrible decisions weren't made. Vassili Arkhipov, a Russian naval officer, was the possibly the only person who handled the crisis well. He blocked the order to fire on American destroyers with nuclear torpedoes as they attacked his submarine. It is very likely that most (if not all) of us wouldn't be here today if Arkhipov agreed to retaliate against U.S. warships.
Posted by padfo0t 9 years ago
padfo0t
STupid debate. No ones gunna vote@!!!
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
It wasn't Canada it was Great Britian and that was the only "win" britian got against us...it wasn't even technically a win because it wasn't a official war battle.
Posted by Undermining-Chaos 9 years ago
Undermining-Chaos
In 1812 the US lost to an underdeveloped Canada.
They burned down the white house.
I say Canada rocks.
Posted by cody30228 9 years ago
cody30228
The purpose of this debate was very clear if you read his first case. It would be impossible for him to fit in the word limit:

The United States is the most technologically innovative, expansive, economically sound, stable, politically strong, country in all of time compared to any country of any time period that my opponent brings up.

You wouldn't take the debate if you didn't read his first argument (or you shouldn't.) In reading it, you realize what this debate was about.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
REpublicanview, it was not an attack, and I do not know why you are attacking me.

If you would notice, I made the title of the Willy Wonka debate very specific.

I did the same thing with the latter debate, in which I thought carefully to the wording so that there would be no loopholes. I considered saying "wos NAME is HArlan", but that would inevitably lead to my opponent claiming that thier own name is Harlan.

But the title of this debate, however is too vague. And you're listing of FIVE different definitions only proves me right.

At least the purpose of my debates are clear.
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
Or atleast nowhere wear near as silly or ridiculous or your:

"Willy Wonka is evil, corrupt, probably a child molestor, and has several parallels to Hitler."

or your:

"Who to you is the most respectable member on Debate.org, who's user ID is "Harlan"?"

debate which is obviously the most ridiculous
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