The Instigator
MMnumber99
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points
The Contender
SimonZ
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

Best President

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,728 times Debate No: 826
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (8)

 

MMnumber99

Pro

FDR hands down. He had the smarts and the spunk and the human nature to lead the country during some of the hardest times it has ever seen
SimonZ

Con

SimonZ forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
MMnumber99

Pro

MMnumber99 forfeited this round.
SimonZ

Con

SimonZ forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
MMnumber99

Pro

MMnumber99 forfeited this round.
SimonZ

Con

SimonZ forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
I'm sorry, that wasn't me disparaging Christianity it was Jefferson on the topic.

--

"Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man; outlines which it is lamentable he did not live to fill up. Epictetus and Epicurus give laws for governing ourselves, Jesus a supplement of the duties and charities we owe to others. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent moralist, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems,* invented by ultra-Christian sects, unauthorized by a single word ever uttered by him, is a most desirable object, and one to which Priestley has successfully devoted his labors and learning."

...

* e. g. The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy, &c.

--

From his letter to William Short, 1819, more the 40 years after he wrote Notes on Religion. He says that finding the real parts are like as easy as "diamond from the dunghill".
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
In a correction to my last comment, I meant to say "steal on a daily basis.
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
Thomas Jefferson actually gave from his pocket to help fund Christian missionary work among the American natives. Also, have you ever read his "Notes on Religion"? In my opinion and the opinion of many others, this largely proves it.

Also, I see you like to disparage people's belief. I am not Christian, but calling the "rest of the bible" a "dunghill" is not respectful to Christians.

Also, what people do and what people say are two different things. I can call say I am a good person, yet steal on a daily person. It doesn't mean all good people are thieves. What I am trying to say is that "conservatives" today may call themselves that, but are largely the opposite. It doesn't mean the correct idea of conservatism is dead. Many people today are conservative in the correct sense. Perhaps Ron Paul and all of his supporters may be testimony to that.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
Christian? Not in the sense you mean it. He was Christian in the sense that he liked some bits of morality in the Bible. But, largely he discounted the existence of miracles, cut up a version of the Bible in order to literally cut out the miracles as he believed them to be largely ridiculous.

Jefferson was not largely Christian insofar as outside calling himself Christian he doesn't appear to have believed in any of the main Christian doctrines, not virgin birth, not resurrection, not even the parlor tricks of Jesus. He thought some of the moral edicts were good and went about picking them out like diamonds in a "dunghill" (the rest of the bible).

To say that conservationism is about smaller government in this day and age is a bit like saying abstinence only sex education is about preventing diseases and pregnancy. Sure, that's what they say, but in practice it does the exact opposite. The smallest the government has been in decades since before Reagan has been Clinton.

I get what you are saying, the sort of dead and gone idea of conservatism.
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
Tatarize, he was largely a Christian man in the first place. He was conservative in way of government he espoused. Less of it, and more personal liberties. That is the conservatism I was talking about. And yes, I tied his endeavors in with his presidency. Perhaps not the greatest president per-se, but possibly the greatest American.

Also, you are talking of neo-cons. Those are fake conservative, with no eye for the people but an eye for money and their own welfare. Conservatism is George Washington saying "Avoid entangling alliances". Conservatism is minding our business, conservatism is small government and letting the people take care of their own matters as best they can. Conservatism is less government, and to say that the neo-cons today are conservatives is an insult.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
Lincoln.

I personally wouldn't vote for Jefferson on the grounds that, though he was an amazing man he was only a good president. Most of the love of Jefferson comes out of his other endeavors rather than the presidency.

Patriot, how do you figure Jefferson was conservative? Religious freedom, cutting up the Bible, spending lots of time in France... I'll grant you he owned slaves. But, I don't exactly see what is shouting conservatives. Besides everybody knows conservatives nowadays want to spend like there's no tomorrow (perhaps even believing that), attack people for no reason, lie to the American people, suspend the bill of rights and ruin the reputation of America around the world.
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
I love Woodrow Wilson. The fact that he screened Birth of a Nation in the Whitehouse makes him interesting, and shows even the presidents of out glorious past believed in things that would have them put in jail today.

I personally like Thomas Jefferson. Probably the most America conservative there ever was.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt and others
Posted by Toored 9 years ago
Toored
Every President has some good and some bad. You can't get around it. However, there are times when the bad outweighs the good. For instance:

Woodrow Wilson:

-Good: Helped reform the treasury, well educated (PhD), championed for the creation of the League of Nations, gave women the right to vote, 14 points

-Bad: Kind of a racist prick, segregated Washington, held white house screenings of "Birth Of A Nation", honorary KKK member.

I didn't mention WW1 as that would be a debate in it's self but you get my point.

MMnumber, if you want to have this same debate with a more active opponent please indulge me!
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
definitely Lincoln but I personally have more respect for Reagan than any other president.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Derek.Gunn 8 years ago
Derek.Gunn
MMnumber99SimonZTied
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Vote Placed by MMnumber99 9 years ago
MMnumber99
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Vote Placed by tarsjake 9 years ago
tarsjake
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Vote Placed by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Mikedapimp 9 years ago
Mikedapimp
MMnumber99SimonZTied
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Vote Placed by beem0r 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by kenito001 9 years ago
kenito001
MMnumber99SimonZTied
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