The Instigator
RationalMadman
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
emospongebob527
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

Better to rape a baby than be raped by one.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
RationalMadman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/20/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,313 times Debate No: 26407
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (5)

 

RationalMadman

Pro

It is actually true.
emospongebob527

Con

I accept, state your case.
Debate Round No. 1
RationalMadman

Pro

To be raped is to lose control, to have yourself violated and to be upthrusted through levels of trauma that you'd never dream of. A baby can barely process what is going on, it naturally should be incapable of overpowering you, so it's more unnatural (if we wish to relate to natural as being moral, as many people do) for one to rape you than for you to have capability to rape it. Thus it's the better scenario for you to rape the baby than be raped.
emospongebob527

Con

better- more advantageous or effective, usually in a positive way.

Why raping a baby is less effective than getting raped by one.

Positive Effects of Child Rape-

Nothing.

Negative Effects of Child Rape-

Injury

Depending on the age and size of the child, and the degree of force used, child sexual abuse may cause internal lacerations and bleeding. In severe cases, damage to internal organs may occur, which, in some cases, may cause death. Herman-Giddens et al. found six certain and six probable cases of death due to child sexual abuse in North Carolina between 1985 and 1994. The victims ranged in age from 2 months to 10 years. Causes of death included trauma to the genitalia or rectum and sexual mutilation.

Infections

Child sexual abuse may cause infections and sexually transmitted diseases. Depending on the age of the child, due to a lack of sufficient vaginal fluid, chances of infections are higher. Vaginitis has also been reported.

Neurological damage

Research has shown that traumatic stress, including stress caused by sexual abuse, causes notable changes in brain functioning and development. Various studies have suggested that severe child sexual abuse may have a deleterious effect on brain development. Ito et al. (1998) found "reversed hemispheric asymmetry and greater left hemisphere coherence in abused subjects;"Teicher et al. (1993) found that an increased likelihood of "ictal temporal lobe epilepsy-like symptoms" in abused subjects; Anderson et al. (2002) recorded abnormal transverse relaxation time in the cerebellar vermis of adults sexually abused in childhood; Teicher et al. (1993) found that child sexual abuse was associated with a reduced corpus callosum area; various studies have found an association of reduced volume of the left hippocampus with child sexual abuse; and Ito et al. (1993) found increased electrophysiological abnormalities in sexually abused children.

Some studies indicate that sexual or physical abuse in children can lead to the overexcitation of an undeveloped limbic system. Teicher et al. (1993) used the "Limbic System Checklist-33" to measure ictal temporal lobe epilepsy-like symptoms in 253 adults. Reports of child sexual abuse were associated with a 49% increase to LSCL-33 scores, 11% higher than the associated increase of self-reported physical abuse. Reports of both physical and sexual abuse were associated with a 113% increase. Male and female victims were similarly affected.

Navalta et al. (2006) found that the self-reported math Scholastic Aptitude Test scores of their sample of women with a history of repeated child sexual abuse were significantly lower than the self-reported math SAT scores of their non-abused sample. Because the abused subjects verbal SAT scores were high, they hypothesized that the low math SAT scores could "stem from a defect in hemispheric integration." They also found a strong association between short term memory impairments for all categories tested (verbal, visual, and global) and the duration of the abuse.

Psychological harm

Child sexual abuse can result in both short-term and long-term harm, including psychopathology in later life. Psychological, emotional, physical, and social effects include depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, eating disorders, poor self-esteem, dissociative and anxiety disorders; general psychological distress and disorders such as somatization, neurosis,chronic pain, sexualized behavior, school/learning problems; and behavior problems including substance abuse, self-destructive behaviour, animal cruelty, crime in adulthood and suicide. A specific characteristic pattern of symptoms has not been identified and there are several hypotheses about the causality of these associations.

A study funded by the USA National Institute of Drug Abuse found that "Among more than 1,400 adult females, childhood sexual abuse was associated with increased likelihood of drug dependence, alcohol dependence, and psychiatric disorders. The associations are expressed as odds ratios: for example, women who experienced nongenital sexual abuse in childhood were 2.83 times more likely to suffer drug dependence as adults than were women who were not abused."

Long term negative effects on development leading to repeated or additional victimization in adulthood are also associated with child sexual abuse. Studies have established a causal relationship between childhood sexual abuse and certain specific areas of adult psychopathology, including suicidality, antisocial behavior, PTSD, anxiety and alcoholism. Adults with a history of abuse as a child, especially sexual abuse, are more likely than people with no history of abuse to become frequent users of emergency and medical care services. A study comparing middle-aged women who were abused as children with non-abused counterparts found significantly higher health care costs for the former.

Sexually abused children suffer from more psychological symptoms than children who have not been abused; studies have found symptoms in 51% to 79% of sexually abused children. The risk of harm is greater if the abuser is a relative, if the abuse involves intercourse or attempted intercourse, or if threats or force are used. The level of harm may also be affected by various factors such as penetration, duration and frequency of abuse, and use of force. The social stigma of child sexual abuse may compound the psychological harm to children, and adverse outcomes are less likely for abused children who have supportive family environments.

Dissociation and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

Child sexual abuse independently predicts the number of symptoms for PTSD a person displays, after controlling for possible confounding variables, according to Widom (1999), who wrote "sexual abuse, perhaps more than other forms of childhood trauma, leads to dissociative problems ... these PTSD findings represent only part of the picture of the long-term psychiatric sequelae associated with early childhood victimization ... antisocial personality disorder, alcohol abuse, and other forms of psychopathology. Children may develop symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder resulting from child sexual abuse, even without actual or threatened injury or violence.

Positive Effects of Getting Raped By a Child-

Nothing.

Negative Effects of Getting Raped By a Child-

It can be detrimental to the victim's psyche.

I.E, Embarrasment.

Sources-

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://www.merriam-webster.com...



Debate Round No. 2
RationalMadman

Pro

Positive effects or raping a baby

sense of control

Orgasm

Fun

Lack of Boredom

Exercising of Muscles for Good Health

Negative effects of raping a baby

None

I think you are looking from the baby's point of view but this debate is whether raping a baby or being raped by one is better, not whether being raped when you are a baby or raping as a baby is better.
emospongebob527

Con

Ok then may we examine the negative effects on the offender for raping a baby.

Child maltreatment

Child sexual abuse has been recognized specifically as a type of child maltreatment in U.S. federal law since the initial Congressional hearings on child abuse in 1973. Child sexual abuse is illegal in every state, as well as under federal law. Among the states, the specifics of child sexual abuse laws vary, but certain features of these laws are common to all states.

Kansas v. Hendricks

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Kansas v. Hendricks that a predatory sex offender can be civilly committed upon release from prison. The Supreme Court ruled in Stogner v. California that California's ex post facto law, a retroactive extension of the statute of limitations for sexual offenses committed against minors, is unconstitutional.

The case requires law enforcement to release information about sex offenders. It is a modification of the Jacob Wetterling Crimes Against Children and Sexually Violent Offender Registration Act, which specifies that information about both sexual offenders and individuals committing crimes against children must be released.

Minors' inability to consent

Between adults, most sexual activity does not constitute a criminal offense, unless one of the adults does not consent to the activity. In contrast, minors are unable to give consent under the law. Indeed, the term "minor" refers to a person who has not yet reached majority,the age at which one may give consent in any legal matter (for example, a minor cannot make a valid contract). However, actual laws and the maximum ages that constitute breach of law vary by state. A person engaging in sexual activity with a minor below these proscribed ages (16-18), regardless of that minor's seeming "consent" or compliance, commits an offense (terminology varies). In most states, much more sever offenses and/or sentences exist for cases with young children, approximately under 12-13.

Many states include in their penal codes a "Romeo and Juliet" exception for cases where sexual activity occurs between a young adult and a minor whose ages are within a few years of each other. This exception typically bars charging the young adult with a sex offense, if the young adult did not use force or coercion on the minor and the minor is a teenager.

Incest

Incest is a criminal offense in most states. In the majority of states with incest laws, a perpetrator of intrafamilial child sexual abuse may be prosecuted for incest instead of child sexual abuse offenses. Such crimes are most commonly addressed in family courts, as opposed to criminal courts, although no laws prohibit simultaneous proceedings in both forums. A related perpetrator, if convicted under the state's incest law, will receive a significantly lower penalty for committing the same acts that constitute criminal child sexual abuse in that state. Recognizing this loophole, some states have altered their penal codes to prohibit prosecution of intrafamilial child sexual abuse under the incest statutes. In these states, which include Arkansas, California, Illinois, New York, and North Carolina, all perpetrators of sexual offenses against children are prosecuted under the same laws, without regard to whether they are related to their victims. These states retain their incest laws only for their original purpose: to prohibit sexual activity between those too closely related by blood.

Penalties for child sexual abuse

Penalties for child sexual abuse vary with the specific offenses for which the perpetrator has been convicted. Criminal penalties may include imprisonment, fines, registration as a sex offender, and restrictions on probation and parole. Civil penalties may include liability for damages, injunctions, involuntary commitment, and, for perpetrators related to their victims, loss of custody or parental rights.

During the last three decades many state legislatures have increased prison terms and other penalties for child sex offenders. This trend toward more stringent sentences generally targets those perpetrators who are repeat offenders, who victimize multiple children, or who stood in a position of trust with respect to their victims, such as a guardian, parent, pastor, or teacher. In Colorado, lawmakers proposed a new law allowing the death penalty for repeat offenders. However, the bill was rejected by the state senate. Social workers argued that in intra-familial abuse, the victims could be intimidated by their abuser into thinking their family member would be killed if they reported the abuse.

Kennedy v. Louisiana

The USA Supreme Court in a 5-4 judgment penned by Justice Anthony Kennedy on June 25, 2008, prohibited executions of individuals convicted of child rape: "the death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child, despite the horrendous nature of the crime." Kennedy reserved capital punishment only "for crimes that involve a victim's death." In this Louisiana case, Patrick Kennedy raped his 8-year-old stepdaughter, resulting into serious injuries which required surgery. 44 states prohibit death penalty for any kind of rape, but Louisiana and 4 other states permit it for child rape — Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas. There's disagreement over the status of a Georgia law permitting execution for child rape, but Justice Kennedy ruled it was still in force. The court, thus declared unconstitutional the Louisiana statute (La. Stat. Ann. §14:42, West 1997 and Supp. 1998): "the Eighth Amendment bars Louisiana from imposing the death penalty for the rape of a child where the crime did not result, and was not intended to result, in the victim’s death.

Opponents have criticized the decision, noting an admission by the Justice Department that they had failed to note that the US Congress had made child rape a capital offence under military law as recently as 2006, which has been noted as contradicting the "evolving standards of decency" justification for the decision.

India

The 'Protection of Children Against Sexual Offences Bill, 2011' regarding child sexual abuse had already been passed in upper house of parliament (Rajya Sabha) on 10 May 2012, now it has also been passed in Lok Sabha on 22nd May 2012.

In South Africa

In 1995, South Africa ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and committed to a range of obligations aimed at establishing and protecting the rights of children. The Child Care Act, (74 of 1983) and the Child Care Amendment Act, (86 of 1991; 13 of 1999) make sexual abuse of children a criminal offense.

In the United Kingdom

The United Kingdom rewrote its criminal code in the Sexual Offences Act of 2003. This Act includes definitions and penalties for child sexual abuse offences, and (so far as relating to offences) applies to England and Wales and Northern Ireland. The Scottish Law Commission published its review of rape and sexual offences in December 2007, which includes a similar consolidation and codification of child sexual abuse offences in Scotland.

In Yemen

In Yemen, the law does not define child abuse.

In Zambia

A recent June 30, 2008 landmark decision by judge, Philip Musonda, of the Zambian High Court gave a minor girl-student 45 million Zambian Kwacha in awards after she brought her teacher to court for statutory rape. This is the first case of its kind for a minor to win against a person of authority in the nation of Zambia.

As you can see, it isn't very easy to be a child sex offender, they are viewed detrimentally by society.
And the penalties for child rape aren't taken lightly either.

Debate Round No. 3
RationalMadman

Pro

Th law has nothing to do with this. F*ck the law.

This is about whether raping a baby or being raped by one is better.
emospongebob527

Con

I have given arguments for why rape has a negative effect on the victim and a negative effect on the offender.

Why it is negative for the victim:

Injury

Depending on the age and size of the child, and the degree of force used, child sexual abuse may cause internal lacerations and bleeding. In severe cases, damage to internal organs may occur, which, in some cases, may cause death. Herman-Giddens et al. found six certain and six probable cases of death due to child sexual abuse in North Carolina between 1985 and 1994. The victims ranged in age from 2 months to 10 years. Causes of death included trauma to the genitalia or rectum and sexual mutilation.

Infections

Child sexual abuse may cause infections and sexually transmitted diseases. Depending on the age of the child, due to a lack of sufficient vaginal fluid, chances of infections are higher. Vaginitis has also been reported.

Neurological damage

Research has shown that traumatic stress, including stress caused by sexual abuse, causes notable changes in brain functioning and development. Various studies have suggested that severe child sexual abuse may have a deleterious effect on brain development. Ito et al. (1998) found "reversed hemispheric asymmetry and greater left hemisphere coherence in abused subjects;"Teicher et al. (1993) found that an increased likelihood of "ictal temporal lobe epilepsy-like symptoms" in abused subjects; Anderson et al. (2002) recorded abnormal transverse relaxation time in the cerebellar vermis of adults sexually abused in childhood; Teicher et al. (1993) found that child sexual abuse was associated with a reduced corpus callosum area; various studies have found an association of reduced volume of the left hippocampus with child sexual abuse; and Ito et al. (1993) found increased electrophysiological abnormalities in sexually abused children.

Some studies indicate that sexual or physical abuse in children can lead to the overexcitation of an undeveloped limbic system. Teicher et al. (1993) used the "Limbic System Checklist-33" to measure ictal temporal lobe epilepsy-like symptoms in 253 adults. Reports of child sexual abuse were associated with a 49% increase to LSCL-33 scores, 11% higher than the associated increase of self-reported physical abuse. Reports of both physical and sexual abuse were associated with a 113% increase. Male and female victims were similarly affected.

Navalta et al. (2006) found that the self-reported math Scholastic Aptitude Test scores of their sample of women with a history of repeated child sexual abuse were significantly lower than the self-reported math SAT scores of their non-abused sample. Because the abused subjects verbal SAT scores were high, they hypothesized that the low math SAT scores could "stem from a defect in hemispheric integration." They also found a strong association between short term memory impairments for all categories tested (verbal, visual, and global) and the duration of the abuse.

Psychological harm

Child sexual abuse can result in both short-term and long-term harm, including psychopathology in later life. Psychological, emotional, physical, and social effects include depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, eating disorders, poor self-esteem, dissociative and anxiety disorders; general psychological distress and disorders such as somatization, neurosis,chronic pain, sexualized behavior, school/learning problems; and behavior problems including substance abuse, self-destructive behaviour, animal cruelty, crime in adulthood and suicide. A specific characteristic pattern of symptoms has not been identified and there are several hypotheses about the causality of these associations.

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http://bits.wikimedia.org......; alt="" width="15" height="11" />
A study funded by the USA National Institute of Drug Abuse found that "Among more than 1,400 adult females, childhood sexual abuse was associated with increased likelihood of drug dependence, alcohol dependence, and psychiatric disorders. The associations are expressed as odds ratios: for example, women who experienced nongenital sexual abuse in childhood were 2.83 times more likely to suffer drug dependence as adults than were women who were not abused."

Long term negative effects on development leading to repeated or additional victimization in adulthood are also associated with child sexual abuse. Studies have established a causal relationship between childhood sexual abuse and certain specific areas of adult psychopathology, including suicidality, antisocial behavior, PTSD, anxiety and alcoholism. Adults with a history of abuse as a child, especially sexual abuse, are more likely than people with no history of abuse to become frequent users of emergency and medical care services. A study comparing middle-aged women who were abused as children with non-abused counterparts found significantly higher health care costs for the former.

Sexually abused children suffer from more psychological symptoms than children who have not been abused; studies have found symptoms in 51% to 79% of sexually abused children. The risk of harm is greater if the abuser is a relative, if the abuse involves intercourse or attempted intercourse, or if threats or force are used. The level of harm may also be affected by various factors such as penetration, duration and frequency of abuse, and use of force. The social stigma of child sexual abuse may compound the psychological harm to children, and adverse outcomes are less likely for abused children who have supportive family environments.

Dissociation and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

Child sexual abuse independently predicts the number of symptoms for PTSD a person displays, after controlling for possible confounding variables, according to Widom (1999), who wrote "sexual abuse, perhaps more than other forms of childhood trauma, leads to dissociative problems ... these PTSD findings represent only part of the picture of the long-term psychiatric sequelae associated with early childhood victimization ... antisocial personality disorder, alcohol abuse, and other forms of psychopathology. Children may develop symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder resulting from child sexual abuse, even without actual or threatened injury or violence.

Why it is negative for the offender:


Child rape is viewed as taboo in society and offenders are looked as detrimental, they are often demoted and put down, having a negative effect on them.

Child rape is also illegal in most of the world's countries, most punishments for such offenses can be:

Imprisonment
Fines
Death

Why imprisonment has a negative effect on the offenders:

In prisons people spend 23 hours a day in confinement where they eat mediocre food spend time in dirty conditions, numerous cases of inmate-on-inmate rape have been reported, and the bathrooms and showers are filthy and only offer cold water.

Imprisonment has a detrimental and negative effect on the victims.....

We can conclude that an adult raping a baby has a much more negative effect on both the victim and offender than a baby raping an adult.

Debate Round No. 4
RationalMadman

Pro

If a baby sis firstly able to rape you, and secondly you remain helpless and traumatised by it, and FAR MORE conscious of what's going on than a baby would be (not a child, a baby do not confuse the two). Then there is something so truly wrong and impossibly incorrect and horribly disgusting that you'd rather be raping a baby in my opinion.

That is all.

Thank you.

You probably will get more votes due to the popularity of your opinion, people not even considering how horrible it is to truly be raped by a 'chucky' styled baby, but perhaps if you did you'd see what I'm saying is true.

Have a nice day chap.
emospongebob527

Con

Closing Argument:

We can conclude from everyone of my arguments that, adult on baby rape has a more detrimental effect on both parties than baby on adult rape.

Vote Con...............
Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ProwlerKnight 4 years ago
ProwlerKnight
Ok let me start by stating I am far from religious, so don't even jump to religion with me.

Secondly, I don't insult people for being different, since I was bullied my entire childhood for being different, so don't think of this as me attacking you for being different, cause it's far from the case.

However there is a fine line between different and wrong, and this debate isn't about being different, this debate is explaining how pleasurable is it to rape a baby, it's not even about the comparison, it's just about raping a baby, because the latter of the argument barely stands due to the fact that it is practically impossible for the latter event to take place.

All you did is make yourself look like a child molestor, which isn't different, it's just wrong.

I don't mind different people, but I don't like people who harm innocent people for pleasure, which includes molestors, rapists, murderers, and bullies, and all you're argument is a subliminally defending these kinds of people.

Let me put it this way, someone breaks into your house and rapes your little baby daughter, you would allow that? or would you just go "better he raped her then she raped him?" No? because that's the argument you're trying to defend.
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
ProwlerKnight why don't you say that to my face, we'll see how 'intellectual' you are in a fight, don't goa round insulting people for being different, too many religions function in this manner and it generates ignorance for the weird.
Posted by Batboy 4 years ago
Batboy
Votebombers strike again! Although I'll give him a point for originality... but I'm gonna take it back for child molestation....
Posted by ProwlerKnight 4 years ago
ProwlerKnight
wow not only should pro be losing but this whole debate should be deleted since it doesnt show any intellect whatsoever, come on raping a baby or being raped by a baby? it's not even funny so say the least, it's just wrong.
Posted by emospongebob527 4 years ago
emospongebob527
He's saying I plagiarized lol
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
Smithereens I didn't plagiarise?
Posted by emospongebob527 4 years ago
emospongebob527
You gotta be kidding..............
Posted by emospongebob527 4 years ago
emospongebob527
How the f*ck! Is he winning?
Posted by emospongebob527 4 years ago
emospongebob527
Wow, I have so many debates I should be winning but I've been cheated out of by vote trolls
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
Lol at roy
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Smithereens 4 years ago
Smithereens
RationalMadmanemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro completely collapsed later on the debate, whereas Con presented actual notable arguments. However, they were plagiarised.
Vote Placed by Altilongitude 4 years ago
Altilongitude
RationalMadmanemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's unnatural argument is not convincing. It seems logical that the effects on the baby are relevant when we're talking about which scenario is better. The negative effects on the baby would be greater than the negative effects on the person the baby raped.
Vote Placed by DeFool 4 years ago
DeFool
RationalMadmanemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Considering the well-known impotence of babies, I found the argument that the infantile penis might be a potentially fearful weapon to be unconvincing. I was more convinced by Cons assertion that it would be embarrassing to have been raped by a baby, but otherwise something that could be easily recovered from. I am glad to have had this matter settled; it might have weighed upon my heart otherwise.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
RationalMadmanemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: An incredibly foolish debate -- c'mon guys, try harder. Anyway, raping a baby would produce severe physical injury. A baby raping an adult requires a science fiction scenario with an unknowable outcome based upon the construction of the scenario.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
RationalMadmanemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con plagiarized his entire case, which constitutes a full forfeit.