The Instigator
Logical-Master
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Between Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, Ted Cruz should be selected as the Republican Nominee

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 7/29/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,198 times Debate No: 78079
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

Logical-Master

Pro

Good evening, Debate Dot Org and good evening to my fellow conservative debater. I have noticed his support for Republican presidential candidate Rand Paul. Although I am also fond of Mr. Paul, I lean more towards Ted Cruz as the republican nominee for the 2016 election and am happy to elaborate on my reasoning as the debate progresses.

The first round of this debate should operate for acceptance purposes and the remaining three rounds shall operate for debate purposes.

Should there be any confusion on the debate topic's terms, I reserve all right to clarify them in any subsequent rounds and invite my opponent to seek clarification immediately in the comment section should he feel the need.

I wish my opponent the best of luck and look forward to an esteemed debate!
lannan13

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Logical-Master

Pro

Liberals reading this should keep in mind that this debate isn’t about who should be president, but who should be the Republican nominee. It is my position that that person should be someone who best represents the interest of the voters in the Republican party. This doesn’t mean Cruz shouldn’t try and stand for all voters, but as far as getting the Republican nominee is concerned, this ought to be the chief consideration.


Contention #1: Ted Cruz is more reliable in standing up to the Republican Establishment.

One of the problems the party currently faces is the legions of quisling, mealy mouthed, phony, deceitful Republicans. Republicans who will say one thing to their constituents and then turn around and do the opposite. Just a few weeks back, Republican Establishment Senator, John McCain dismissed 15,000 anti-illegal-immigration conservatives in his own state as “crazies.” We currently have a Republican Senate majority leader who is not only very similar to Harry Reid [1], but has a habit of blocking the amendments of Senators in his own party on issues very important to his own constituents.[2]

Time and time again, Ted Cruz has proven himself reliable in standing up to like connivers like Mitch McConnell. He went against them in his effort to defund Obamacare in spite of ridicule and open condemnation from the media and other Congressmen.[3] Recently, he openly condemned Mitch McConnell on the Senate floor.[4]. Ted Cruz clearly cannot be bullied and quieted by the Republican Establishment. If anyone can effectively fight the corruption in the party, it’s him.

On the other hand, one can’t say as much for Rand Paul. Don’t get me wrong. Mr. Paul has certainly done great things, but it’s this area that makes Cruz the better candidate. Mr. Paul doesn’t have the strength to seriously stand up to the Establishment (especially not to the extent Cruz does). Evidence of this is him endorsing Mitch McConnell during the 2014 Senate Primaries.[5] The same Mitch McConnel who had promised to crush tea party conservative candidates throughout the 2014 primaries.[6] Even worse is when Establishment Republican Thad Cochran used some of the most reprehensible tactics ever seen in a Republican Senate primary race, Rand Paul did not condemn them; rather, he endorsed them with open approval.[7] Mr. Paul has had his moments, but this is who he is at his core.


Contention #2: Rand Paul is often afraid to speak his mind.

Rand Paul is a principled constitutional conservative on many issues, but there are often times where he is noticeably incapable of saying what he thinks. Conservative Review details this to a great degree.[8] One of the best examples of this has been on abortion and gay marriage. By no means am I insisting what his position should be on the matter, but the problem here that there is a clear indication of reticence in speaking it out aloud.

  • In comments that raised concerns among the pro-life community, at an event in Philadelphia, Paul told the crowd that abortion is not the reason he ran for office. (Daily Caller)Rand Paul stayed noticeably quiet following the Supreme Court’s decision to legalize gay marriage in all 50 states, not offering a response until a full two days after the ruling.”

I realize some positions are more popular than others and that it's perhaps advantageous for him to keep quiet on things, but there's nonetheless an extent of misleading other when one consistently masks their opinion on issues. Republican voters deserve better.

And that'll do it for now!

Sources:

[1] http://www.politico.com...

[2] http://www.breitbart.com...

[3]http://www.breitbart.com...

[4] http://pjmedia.com...

[5] http://dailycaller.com...

[6] http://www.washingtontimes.com...

[7] http://www.politico.com...

[8] https://www.conservativereview.com...

lannan13

Con

I thank my opponent for the challenge. Let's get down to the debate.

Contention 1: Rand Paul outweighs Ted Cruz in standing up to the RNC.

My opponent brings up Ted Cruz's attacks on McConnell, but I do say what has Cruz done? Rand Paul has openly gone out against Mitch McConnel when they squared off during the Patriot Act. Polls even showed that in this case the public supported Rand Paul 15% more than that of Mitch McConell's. (http://www.politico.com...) Here Rand Paul even fillibustered the bill for over 13 hours. This is something that Ted Cruz hasn't even done. Yet Rand Paul attacked many people in this fillibuster one of which was Mitch McConnell for his support of the bill. (see video) ;

As for Rand Paul still attacks on the Republican Brand he has written in his 3rd book, Taking a Stand, "Right now, the Republican brand sucks. I promised Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, that I would stop saying the GOP sucks, and I will (except for this last time)," Rand Paul has time and time again attacked the Republican brand for the simple fact of that it doesn't support the majority of Americans and he showed that they only care about the small interest groups. Rand Paul then gave his plan for a massive Republican Party reform.


Contention 2: Rand Paul Speaks his mind.

My opponent lashes out at Rand Paul for not being able to speak his mind on many issues. This, however, is where he is incorrect. On the issue of Abortion, Rand Paul came out and proposed the "Life at Conception Act," to the Senate. (http://www.paul.senate.gov...) My opponent is also incorrect on his gay marriage issue as well. Rand Paul has come out in June on the issue of gay marriage stating that the government should get out of marriage all together. This protects the santity of marriage by increasing the separation of state and religion as it was ment to be. (http://time.com...)

On more than speaking his mind Rand Paul has done two great filibusters of the Senate. One was for the renewal of an executive position and the other was on the Patriot act. These both were over 13 hours a piece and Ted Cruz has come nowhere close to this kind of feat. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, fillibustered by reading Green eggs and Ham. (see second video) already shows that Cruz is unable to produce an effective and thought provoking fillibuster. To increase my point on this let's look to the legislation both have produced. Rand Paul has produced a total of 116 bills. While Ted Cruz has done 92. (http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com...) and (http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com...)

I will now hand things back over to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 2
Logical-Master

Pro

Contention #1: Ted Cruz is more reliable in standing up to the Republican Establishment.


CON asks us what Cruz has actually done. For one, he upheld his campaign promise to fight the Affordable Care Act, coming infinitely closer to doing away with it than any other Republican.[1][2] Ted Cruz had set up a website and spent months rallying millions of constituents and actively kept discussion on the table. In doing so, he not only stood up for his constituents in Texas, but conservatives throughout the nation.

Rand Paul filibustered the Patriot Act or 13 hours? Ted Cruz filibustered Obamacare for 21 hours. [3] And I realize CON tries to diminish this feat by pointing out that Ted Cruz read green eggs and ham during the 21 hour speech, but when you’re speaking for 21 hours in a row, it’s pretty hard to come up with new things to say. Not to mention that Cruz was reading for his daughters who were watching at home.[7] Besides, despite being up there for 21 hours, he still was able to competently and thoroughly crush other fully rested Senators in a colloquy.[8][9][10] Watch Mr. Cruz, closely, DDO members, as his debate skills are second to none.

CON tells us that Rand Paul has not only criticized Mitch McConnell on the Patriot Act bill, but also made some sharp criticisms about Republicans in a book he wrote. That’s great. Truly great. But as my mother always says, actions speak louder than words. Regardless of the few comments Mr. Paul made, he still endorsed Mitch McConnell in his Senate primary last year. He directly and openly contributed to this guy getting reelected. One could say he contributed to the mess of a Republican Senate we have now. He did the same for Thad Cochran, a man who absolutely embraces every bad thing CON has in that Rand Paul quote.[4] Rather than call out his fellow Senator for the corrupt tactics he used to win a race he was going to lose if not for betraying his constituents, he acquiesced them, simply saying he’s “for more people voting.[5] Now many people have their suspicions on why Rand Paul chose back to establishment rather than help get rid of them when finally given an opportunity to do so. Conservative talk-radio host, Mark Levin, suspects he did so to gather support for his presidential run.[6] Regardless of the reasoning, this is very clear proof that he can bought and made to sell out to the Republican Establishment.


Contention #2: Rand Paul is often afraid to speak his mind.


CON tells us that Rand Paul does indeed speak his mind on many issues. He cites Paul’s proposal of the “Life at Conception Act” and him saying that “gay marriage should get out of marriage all together.”

However, a close assessment of Mr. Paul’s rhetoric and positions on these issues reveals that he’s pretty reluctant to speak about them and otherwise doesn’t want to say what he actually thinks. When the recent gay marriage ruling came out, unlike every other candidate, Paul was silent about it, despite merely needing to say that he thinks the court and government have no business dealing with marriage.[11] When asked to weigh in on Indiana’s Religious Freedom and Restoration Act, he uncomfortably declined.[12] Despite the “Life at Conception Act” CON refers to, Paul has modified his position, talking about the need for a “middleground approach.”[13]

CON calls for a comparison between Cruz and Paul’s filibusters, but Cruz’s Senate standoff actually had teeth. It relied upon using a legitimate Congressional power---the power of the purse. Congress used its powers to not fund Obamacare. The Senate at the time allowed the government to shutdown. If not for the spineless Republican Establishment, this tactic would have worked. After all, Democrat House speaker Tip O’Neal effectively employed the tactic against republican president Ronald Reagan 7 times.[14]

CON talks about the amount of legislation both have produced, noting Paul has produced 24 more pieces of legislation than Cruz. But in the words of Hillary Clinton, what difference does it make? Rand Paul has been a Senator since 2011. Ted Cruz has been a Senator since 2013? If both candidates stand for smaller government, how does one having produced more legislation than the other make one the better candidate?

Overall

These contentions go hand in hand. Republicans need a nominee that is reliable and incorruptible. They need someone who isn’t reluctant to speak his/her mind. The issues I’ve raised on the latter aren’t so much Mr. Paul’s position on the issues, but that his consistent ambiguity is a sign of weakness. If you can’t even be firm and consistent with your constituents, how can we count on you to be firm and consistent with our enemies?

Rand Paul is a great guy and he would perhaps be a welcome addition as the Secretary of Commerce of even Vice President depending on how this 2016 race unfolds. But bar none, Ted Cruz is the better man for the buck to be stopping at.

Back to you CON!

Sources

http://pastebin.com...

lannan13

Con

lannan13 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Logical-Master

Pro

CON and I have agreed to postpone this debate until another time. Don't vote anybody!
lannan13

Con

What Pro had said.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Logical-Master 2 years ago
Logical-Master
Am a big Gyakuten Saiban fan!
Posted by greatkitteh 2 years ago
greatkitteh
I like that phoenix wrught Oicture.
Posted by Logical-Master 2 years ago
Logical-Master
Free time is back!
Posted by Logical-Master 2 years ago
Logical-Master
Am gonna have to back out for now. Have less free time than I thought.
Posted by Logical-Master 2 years ago
Logical-Master
k
Posted by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
Change the debate time to 72 hours.
Posted by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
I'll accept Monday.
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