The Instigator
Calebss
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ssadi
Pro (for)
Winning
2 Points

Bible Contradictions?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
ssadi
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/28/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 616 times Debate No: 88870
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (2)

 

Calebss

Con

We will start in a freestyle argument base. I will be in the position to provide that some verses in the Bible are not contradictions;while the Pro will argue against my point. PRO will argue that their are contradictions in the Bible, and may pull up as many as he wishes. In which I will respond to, he may also prove by all means his rationale for considering them contradictions.

For starters, I wanted to clear one up- Since it's at the start of the Bible, and I already know we are going to hit it. Considering it hits every google search for " Bible Contradictions" .

So let"s start in the beginning. This is the chronological order.
(A)
1.And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

2.And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

3.And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Then God zooms into: Man in the Garden of Eden
(B)
1.These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

2.And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul

3.And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature that was the name thereof.

Clearly, the reasonable observer would scream! CONTRADICTION? But is it.
It has been argued that (A) is a chronological account, while (B) is not.
It"s like me telling you a story about someone doing something, but out of order; however, leaving the relationships intact.
For instance, it was clear that the animals were not a suitable partner for Adam, therefore, his wife was created.
Let"s say you wanted to tell me about a candy thief.
(A)
"and the cops caught the candy thief
And the man walked into the store.
And the man grabbed the candy; and there was a store there.
And the candy was put in the store.
And the man ran out of the store.

And the police asked me for my testimony, but I could not remember all of it. "

Let"s say you then compared this to a police report of the events

(B)
" A candy store was created in the 1980"s
Candy was then placed in the candy store
A man came into the candy store and took it.
The man ran out of the store with the candy
The man was caught with the candy by the police "

This looks like a contradiction, in the first account, the man was caught before he entered the store!!!

Nope. This is only a different style of writing. Story (B) tells the events in chronological order, while story (A) just gives you the facts.

While to most readers, this just seems plain troublesome, but I could seriously see a witness report in which the witness told the facts of the case in which he felt they were Important, sometimes chronically and other times sporadically.

As I mentioned, this is only a plausible explanation that makes it seem possible. Therefore, it is possible under the premise that these accounts differ in the basis of chronological presentation and fact base that they do not contradict.

I want give you a chance to respond to my rationale on that plausible explanation for the appeared contradiction. In addition you may begin bringing them up.
ssadi

Pro

I accept and hope this will be a friendly and fruitful debate.


Since Con, as instigator, didn’t provide any definition etc., I will do instead.




DEFINITIONS


Bible
: the collection of sacred writings of the Christian religion, comprising the Old and New Testaments.[1]


Contradiction
: a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another.[2]




BOP


Pro has to show that there are contradiction/s or contradictory verses and/or statements etc. in the Bible.


Con has to show that Pro's arguments are invalid or don’t support that the Bible has contradictions.



NOTE 1


I will mainly use KJV, but I may also make comparisons between different versions.



NOTE 2


OT: Old Testament

NT: New Testament




RULES


1. Follow the definitions.


2. No offensive words/statements.


3. Arguments MUST be consistent with logical reasoning.


4. All Biblical verses MUST be from http://biblehub.com... (Con accepted it as being completely reliable under comments) and explicitly specified from which version they are taken.


5. The only topic of this discussion is the Bible, not any other scripture.




CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE



What is a contradiction?



When there are two contradictory statements, at least one of them MUST be wrong. For example, if statement A says that X died when he was 50 years old and statement B says that X died when he was 100 years old, then at least one of these statements, A or B, MUST be wrong because both cannot be true.

Now I will show such clear contradictions both in OT and NT to prove that there are contradictions in the Bible.


My arguments in this round, for above example, will mainly be of the following form:



A

X died when he was fifty years old.



B

X died when he was one hundred years old.



Q

Fifty or one hundred years old?



=> I will be using KJV, if not stated otherwise.




I. CONTRADICTIONS IN OLD TESTAMENT



1


A

II Samuel 8:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen…



B


I Chronicles 18:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen…



Q


Seven hundred
or seven thousand?



2


A


II Samuel 8:9-10

When Toi king of Hamath heard that David had smitten all the host of Hadadezer. Then Toi sent Joram his son unto king David, to salute him, and to bless him, because he had fought against Hadadezer, and smitten him: for Hadadezer had wars with Toi. And Joram brought with him vessels of silver, and vessels of gold, and vessels of brass.



B


I Chronicles 18:9-10

Now when Tou king of Hamath heard how David had smitten all the host of Hadarezer king of Zobah. He sent Hadoram his son to king David, to inquire of his welfare, and to congratulate him, because he had fought against Hadarezer, and smitten him; (for Hadarezer had war with Tou;) and with him all manner of vessels of gold and silver and brass.



Q


1. Toi
or Tou?


2. Jaram
or Hadoram?


3. Hadadezer
or Hadarezer?



3


A


II Samuel 10:18

And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.



B


I Chronicles 19:18

But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host.



Q


1.
Seven hundred or seven thousand?


2.
Forty thousand footmen or forty thousand horsemen?


3. Shobach
or Shophach ?



4


A


II Kings 8:26

Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem…



B


II Chronicles 22:2.

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem…



Q


Twenty two
or forty two years old?



5


A


II Kings 24:8.

Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.



B


II Chronicles 36:9

Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.



Q


1. Eighteen
or eighty years old?


2.
Only three months or three months and ten days?



6


A


II Samuel 23:8

The Tachmonite that sat in the seat, chief among the captains; the same was Adino the Eznite: he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time.



B


I Chronicles 11:11

Jashobeam, an Hachmonite, the chief of the captains: he lifted up his spear against three hundred slain by him at one time.



Q


1. Tachmonite
or Hachmonite?


2.
Eight hundred or three hundred?



7


A


II Samuel 24:1

And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.



B


I Chronicles 21:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.



Q


Who provoked David, the LORD or Satan?


=> Note that this is a serious and SHOCKING contradiction.



8


A


Genesis 6:3

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.



B


Genesis 9:29

And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.



Q


One hundred and twenty years
or nine hundred and fifty years?



9


A


II Samuel 6:23

Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.



B


II Samuel 21:8

But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite



Q


Did Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child, or did she have (at least) five sons?



10


The name Michal in II Samuel 21:8 is still present in the King James Version[3] and the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures used by the Jehova’s Witnesses[4], but it is changed to Merab in the New American Standard Bible[5], hence a contradiction between different versions of the Bible.




I. CONTRADICTIONS IN NEW TESTAMENT



1


A


John 5:31

If I (i.e., Jesus) bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.



B


John 8:14

Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true



Q


Is
the witness of Jesus true or not true?



2


A


Luke. 3:23

And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.



B


Matthew. 1:16

And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.



Q


Was Joseph, the (supposed) father of Jesus Christ, the son of Heli or the son of Jacob?


=> Note that Heli doesn’t exist in entire list of genealogy in Matthew 1,[6] you can check it using Ctrl+F...



3


A


Matthew 8:5-7

…there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him. And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented…


B


Luke 7:3

he (a certain centurion) sent unto him (i.e., Jesus) the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.


Luke 7:6-7

Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him…



Q


Who approached Jesus, the centurion or the elders of the Jews & friends of the centurion?



4


A


Acts 9:7

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.



B


Acts 26:14

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me…


Acts 22:9

And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.



Q


1.
Were they standing or were they all fallen to the earth?


2. Did they hear
or did they not hear the voice of the man who spoke to Paul?



5


A


Matthew 9:18

While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead



B


Luke 8:41-42

And, behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue: and he fell down at Jesus' feet, and besought him that he would come into his house. For he had one only daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying



Q

Did the man say that his daughter was already dead or was just dying?



6


A


Matthew 21:17-20 … 23

…and [Jesus] said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! … And when he was come into the temple



B


Mark 11:14-15 … 20

And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves. … And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.



Q


When did the disciples see the fig tree dried up from the roots, before they went to the temple or after coming from the temple?



7


A


Malachi 4:5

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.


Matthew 11:12-14

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.


Matthew 17:12- 13

But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.


Mark 9:13

But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.



B


John 1:21

And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not.


Q


Was John the Baptist Elijah/Elias or not?




CONCLUSION



No more space is left, therefore I will stop here for this round and
look forward to Con’s rebuttals


I wish Con best of luck!

Debate Round No. 1
Calebss

Con

Calebss forfeited this round.
ssadi

Pro

Con forfeited and my arguments are left unchallenged. So, I extend.. and I hope Con will provide rebuttals in next round..



TYPO CORRECTIONS to R1


I. CONTRADICTIONS IN OLD TESTAMENT



2

Q

2. Joram or Hadoram?


5

Q

1. Eighteen or eight years old?



DIRECT LINKS TO VERSES I PROVIDED



I know that it is very difficult to go to each verse and check if they are accurately cited. I would like to provide direct links to all verses I provided in round 1, in order to overcome this difficulty..




I.
CONTRADICTIONS IN OLD TESTAMENT



1


A

II Samuel 8:4

http://biblehub.com...


B

I Chronicles 18:4

http://biblehub.com...


Q

Seven hundred or seven thousand?



2


A

II Samuel 8:9-10

http://biblehub.com...


B

I Chronicles 18:9-10

http://biblehub.com...


Q

1. Toi or Tou?

2. Joram or Hadoram?

3. Hadadezer or Hadarezer?



3


A

II Samuel 10:18

http://biblehub.com...


B

I Chronicles 19:18

http://biblehub.com...


Q

1. Seven hundred or seven thousand?

2. Forty thousand footmen or forty thousand horsemen?

3. Shobach or Shophach ?



4


A

II Kings 8:26

http://biblehub.com...


B

II Chronicles 22:2.

http://biblehub.com...


Q

Twenty two or forty two years old?



5


A

II Kings 24:8.

http://biblehub.com...


B

II Chronicles 36:9

http://biblehub.com...


Q

1. Eighteen or eight years old?

2. Only three months or three months and ten days?



6


A

II Samuel 23:8

http://biblehub.com...


B

I Chronicles 11:11

http://biblehub.com...


Q

1. Tachmonite or Hachmonite?

2. Eight hundred or three hundred?



7


A

II Samuel 24:1

http://biblehub.com...


B

I Chronicles 21:1

http://biblehub.com...


Q

Who provoked David, the LORD or Satan?


=> Note that this is a serious and SHOCKING contradiction.



8


A

Genesis 6:3

http://biblehub.com...


B

Genesis 9:29

http://biblehub.com...


Q

One hundred and twenty years or nine hundred and fifty years?



9


A

II Samuel 6:23

http://biblehub.com...


B

II Samuel 21:8

http://biblehub.com...


Q

Did Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child, or did she have (at least) five sons?



10

Disagreement/Contradiction between different versions of the Bible!


A

II Samuel 21:8

..the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul…

->KJV: http://biblehub.com...

->New World Translation of JW: https://www.jw.org...


B

...the five sons of Merab the daughter of Saul…

->New American Standard Bible: http://biblehub.com...


Q

Michal or Merab?




I.
CONTRADICTIONS IN NEW TESTAMENT



1


A

John 5:31

http://biblehub.com...


B

John 8:14

http://biblehub.com...


Q

Is the witness of Jesus true or not true?



2


A

Luke. 3:23

http://biblehub.com...


B

Matthew. 1:16

http://biblehub.com...


Q

Was Joseph, the (supposed) father of Jesus Christ, the son of Heli or the son of Jacob?


=> Note that
Heli doesn’t exist in entire list of genealogy in Matthew 1.



3


A

Matthew 8:5-7

http://biblehub.com...


B

Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7

http://biblehub.com...

Q

Who approached Jesus, the centurion or the elders of the Jews & friends of the centurion?



4


A

Acts 9:7

http://biblehub.com...


B

Acts 22:9

http://biblehub.com...

Acts 26:14

http://biblehub.com...


Q

1. Were they standing or were they all fallen to the earth?

2. Did they hear or did they not hear the voice of the man who spoke to Paul?



5


A

Matthew 9:18

http://biblehub.com...


B

Luke 8:41-42

http://biblehub.com...


Q

Did the man say that his daughter was already dead or was just dying?



6


A

Matthew 21:17-20 & 21:23

http://biblehub.com...


B

Mark 11:14-15 & 21:20

http://biblehub.com...


Q

When did the disciples see the fig tree dried up from the roots, before they went to the temple orafter coming from the temple?



7


A

Malachi 4:5

http://biblehub.com...

Matthew 11:12-14

http://biblehub.com...

Matthew 17:12- 13

http://biblehub.com...

Mark 9:13

http://biblehub.com...


B

John 1:21

http://biblehub.com...


Q

1. Was John the Baptist Elijah/Elias or not?


OR


Who is telling the truth (and consequently who is lying according to the Bible), Jesus Christ or John the Baptist?

According to the Bible, these great prophets (one of which, Jesus, is believed to be God (!) by most of the Christians) are clearly contradicting each other!!!



CONCLUSION


I hope Con will post their arguments/rebuttals in next round and wish them best of luck!

Debate Round No. 2
Calebss

Con

Calebss forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Calebss

Con

Calebss forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ssadi 7 months ago
ssadi
Dear @tsukiyomi,

First of all, thank you for your vote..

By the way, Con forfeited 3 rounds, not 2.. :)
Posted by ssadi 8 months ago
ssadi
Oops.. :( You forfeited (R2)? :(
Posted by ssadi 8 months ago
ssadi
Dear Calebss,

I would like to remind you that you have only about 2 more hours to post your arguments.. I don't want that you were penalized for forfeiture..

Sincerely
Posted by Jerry947 8 months ago
Jerry947
Off the top of my head I could see that 90% weren't contradictions. The other 10% I had to go back and look at what the Bible said. But rest assured, none of those are contradictions.

I don't think Pro with have as hard as a time as some people might think. But it will be interesting to see how things turn out.
Posted by Briannj17 8 months ago
Briannj17
Wow. Have fun con.
Posted by ssadi 8 months ago
ssadi
Cool then!
Posted by Calebss 8 months ago
Calebss
Anything posted in the Bible Hub is perfectly acceptable.
Posted by ssadi 8 months ago
ssadi
http://biblehub.com...

Is this OK?
Posted by Calebss 8 months ago
Calebss
of*
Posted by Calebss 8 months ago
Calebss
It is fine as long as it is just a translation if the New King James, or any other version. For instance, I don't want you taking verses out of the Talmud, which is not a translation. That is what " that" means.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by tsukiyomi 7 months ago
tsukiyomi
CalebssssadiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: con forfeit 3 rounds, pro gets conduct.
Vote Placed by UtherPenguin 7 months ago
UtherPenguin
CalebssssadiTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture