The Instigator
scorpionclone
Pro (for)
Losing
18 Points
The Contender
DoubleXMinus
Con (against)
Winning
28 Points

Bible Prophecy proves Israel is God's chosen people and is the focal point of World Politics

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/17/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,147 times Debate No: 4080
Debate Rounds (3)
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scorpionclone

Pro

Me = Bible prophecy proves that Israel (the Jewish people is the same thing as the nation of Israel) are God's chosen people and that Israel is the focal point of today's world politics

You = Bible prophecy proves that Israel is not the focal point of world politics, and are not God's chosen people.

I appreciate the way you define your arguments so that the debate doesn't get sidetracked and hung up on one sentence like so many debaters like to try on these sites, distracting from the actual debate..

Anyway, Bible prophecy does in fact prove that God has chosen the nation of Israel (The Jews) as his chosen people and has proven it through his word (The Bible).

For the purposes of this debate we will define prophecy as described below

Prophecy
the foretelling or prediction of what is to come.
something that is declared by a prophet, esp. a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation.
a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies.
the action, function, or faculty of a prophet.

The following prophecies are just some of the many that prove God's omniscient hand on his people the Jews (Nation of Israel)

1. The Lord will never forget his chosen people:

Leviticus 26:44
Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. (DURING THEIR CAPTIVITY IN BABYLON, THE JEWISH PEOPLE THOUGHT GOD FORGOT ABOUT THEM, HE PROMISED NOT TO)

2. The nation of Israel will never cease to be a nation of people
Jeremiah 31:35-36
35 This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the LORD Almighty is his name:

36 "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight," declares the LORD, "will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me." (GOD IS SAYING IF YOU CAN DISLODGE THE MOON FROM ITS PLACE , STOP THE SEAS FROM ROARING, TAKE THE SHINE OUT OF THE STARS WILL THE NATION OF ISRAEL CEASE TO EXIST)

3. God promises to restore Israel to their land

Jeremiah 32:36-37
36 "You are saying about this city, 'By the sword, famine and plague it will be handed over to the king of Babylon'; but this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says:

37 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety.(THE PROMISE TO RESTORE ISRAEL)

Ezekiel 34:13
I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. (AGAIN THE PROMISE OR PROPHECY TO RESTORE ISRAEL)

5.Ezekiel 37 (ISRAEL RESTORED IN 1948, BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE MIRACULOUSLY. ISRAEL BECAME A NATION IN ONE DAY)
The Valley of Dry Bones
1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, "Son of man, can these bones live?"
I said, "O Sovereign LORD, you alone know."
4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath [a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' "
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.
9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' " 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.
11 Then he said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.' 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.' "

So after more than 2000 years Israel is brought back to their land and made a nation again. Notice the promise and the the fulfillment.

This proves that the jews are God's chosen people. Fulfillment of prophecy

Now we have the focal p[oint of world politics, this prophecy already partially fulfilled in verse 4
4. A cumbersome stone among the nations

Psalm 83

1 O God, do not keep silent;
be not quiet, O God, be not still.
2 See how your enemies are astir,
how your foes rear their heads.
3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
4 "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation,
that the name of Israel be remembered no more." (Mouhmoud Almidumbdumbjad leader of Iran, "Israel will be wiped of the map, emphasis mine))
5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you- (Iran, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Syria) (Wars of 1948,67,72,)
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Gebal, [a] Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to lend strength to the descendants of Lot.
Selah
9 Do to them as you did to Midian,
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
10 who perished at Endor
and became like refuse on the ground.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 who said, "Let us take possession
of the pasturelands of God."
13 Make them like tumbleweed, O my God,
like chaff before the wind.
14 As fire consumes the forest
or a flame sets the mountains ablaze,
15 so pursue them with your tempest
and terrify them with your storm.
16 Cover their faces with shame
so that men will seek your name, O LORD.
17 May they ever be ashamed and dismayed;
may they perish in disgrace.
18 Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD—
that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.
I'll stop here and let my opponent respond
DoubleXMinus

Con

I accept (that's to say, I don't want to debate) the notion that the people of Israel are God's chosen people. However, it does make me feel a little left out, doesn't it you, Scorp? WHAT ABOUT US? Anyway… That Israel is the focal point of today's world politics is what I feel compelled to disagree with. Hopefully my opponent accepts the debate on this premise alone? (By the way, what a mess you've made out of this debate – I bet if you have a wife, or any future wife you may have if you don't already, is or will be constantly busy cleaning up after your @$$ ;)

I understand my opponent to be saying that Israel is indeed the focal point of world politics because of what we see going on in the Middle East right now. The bible excerpts at the end of his opening statement are supposedly describing the current conflict between Israel and the nations surrounding it. Therein, the prophecy is being fulfilled and he believes (right Scorp?) that Israel is the centerpiece of our war on terrorism. So basically, I think he believes the U.S. government is having such a problem with these surrounding nations (Iraq, Iran) because we recognize Israel's right to exist and that pisses them off. In their anger, they want to destroy us (9/11) in order to have a better chance of finally getting rid of Israel… Now, I really don't want to put words into you mouth, Scorp – so correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I understand you to be saying? Since this is where I see you coming from, this is what I will respond to.

1. Israel is not the reason for 9/11:

What Bin Laden's first tape following 9/11 describes is why he wanted to strike us and why he feels justified in doing so. He says in the tape, "What America is tasting now is something insignificant compared to what we have tasted for scores of years. The Islamic world has been tasting this humiliation and this degradation for 80 years… Neither America nor the people who live in it will dream of security before we live it in Palestine, and not before the infidel armies leave the land of Muhammad."

We were attacked because of our foreign policy decisions(1) (sorry George Bush) that date back to the division of the Ottoman Empire after World War I -- and that we abandoned Afghanistan after our occupation there beginning in 1978 and ending around 1988 didn't help anything either. We supported the mujahideen resistance against the PDPA because we wanted to stop the spreading of the Soviet Union and their resulting communist states. We didn't give a **** about the Afghan people, so once our objectives were met (the Soviet Union gave up and went home) we just left the country in turmoil and strife and didn't look back until September 11th, 2001.(2)

This is just scratching the surface of why these people are pissed off at us and why they would really want to attack us. Israel is only one part of it, it's only one piece of the larger picture that sits in unison right behind the eyes of the people who hate us.

2. Israel is not why we're in Iraq:

The US is in Iraq because of the propaganda that connected Hussein to Bin Laden and because of the incorrect allegations of Hussein possessing WMD's… So George Bush stood up on his little podium and it was like this, "OMG, Hussein is party to what just happened to us! He's a horrible man! Listen America, he possess weapons of mass destruction and might launch them at us! We must go and STOP HIM, or we're all gonna die!" Basically. So then, the politics involved in that have very little to do with Israel and our clashes with Iran right now and the increasing numbers of al Qaeda in the Iraqi region, have to do with our occupation there. The occupation, as I said, that has very little to do with Israel. And the occupation, as we all know, that has nothing to do with 9/11.

All of this we have going on today is far more complicated than saying it all comes back to Israel and that's the reason why. It's a mess, a complicated mess… but as I don't feel like continuing, I think I've already shown two sufficient reasons at this point as to why Israel is not the focal point of today's world politics. In fact, I think I've shown sufficient reasoning as to why Israel is not the focal point of Middle Eastern politics at this time, let alone world politics.

(1) http://www.henrythornton.com...
(2) "Still, with military action in Afghanistan expected soon, it is necessary to look hard at Afghanistan's past two decades of turmoil and seek to learn lessons from that past. And while there are many factors leading to the dismal situation of Afghanistan today, it also is the case that missteps in U.S. foreign policy are, in part, to blame. U.S. policy toward Afghanistan, Russia and the region during the 1980s helped, at least indirectly, nurture the growth of anti-American and fundamentalist forces now controlling Kabul, and indeed, even some of the terrorists now being sought by the United States for the Sept. 11 attacks against New York and Washington. In planning for intervention in Afghanistan now, the Bush administration must work hard to avoid the mistakes of the past."

http://www.cdi.org...
Debate Round No. 1
scorpionclone

Pro

LOL... Sorry for the mess and your right I'm always getting yelled at by the wife! Sad thing is my kids are just like me. (I'm not too upset about the jews being chosen because God worked out a side deal with me, he died for my sins and made a way for me to share in his riches, so I'm cool with it)

If you feel that you would rather debate the argument that "Israel is the focal point of todays world politics, that will be fine, I will try to prove this, although it does take the wind out of my sails a little bit.

Ok, I feel this scripture explains alot of what's going on today and why it "seems" that Israel is playing second fiddle to the big boys right now.

Genesis 12:3 I will bless those that bless you and I will curse him who curses you and in you, all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Do we not sing "God Bless America", in our national anthem. Sometimes I wonder why we do that and then I think about this verse from the bible.

1.
"What America is tasting now is something insignificant compared to what we have tasted for scores of years. The Islamic world has been tasting this humiliation and this degradation for 80 years… Neither America nor the people who live in it will dream of security before we live it in Palestine,(osama mentions Palestine here, which is the same territory called israel, hence palestinians.) and not before the infidel armies leave the land of Muhammad."

Ok Osama is tasting in my view the curse that has been on these people because they are cursing the nation of Israel. In my view the US has had major terrorist events which coincide with policy decisions made in favor of Israel. and general support of Israel.

If you will recall, our first experience with terrorism was when Reagan was president, and he sent troops into lebanon in the late 80's , to keep the peace when things were getting out of hand between Israel and her neighbors. Then the army barracks were blown up in a terrorist attack and some 200-300 trooops were killed. Later Reagan with drew the troops because he knew this was a much bigger problem than he was willing to deal with.

In 1993, the same year of the Oslo Peace Accords were signed between the palestinian leadership and and Israel, Muslim terrorists attacked the WTC the firt time, in addtition the attack in Kenya, and some other african country.

In the year 2000 the "Uprising" began in Israel, with the palestinians declaring an intifada against Isreal. The intifada went on, and 2001 the WTC attacks occurred again. Again in my view these attacks were in retaliation for our policies supporting Israel, and our failure to condemn the atrocities committed by the Isreali government. Matter of fact, we have voted down resolutions in the United Nations whenever the other 5 members made attempts to reign in Israel or pass resolutions condemning thier actions i the middle east against the palestinians.

2.
<>

this is the reason that we understand to be true, but it is also true that Iraq was a major enemy of Isreal, in fact during the Gulf War of 91, Iraq launched over 50 Scud Missiles at Israel in attempts to widen the conflict and garner the support of other nations.

so it may be that we were working in unison with Isreal to take out thier most hated enemies. This is also why Iran may be next. By weakening these enemies for Isreal we are doing thier dirty work for them. Making way for the prohecy to be fulfilled.

3.

finally, I am still convinced that should we continue to support Israel, these middle east countries(Iran Syria, Terrorists) will continue on thier course to hate us for it. What do you think Mouhmudd ALdimnishautoddjihad would do if we backed off from our support of Isreal tomorrow and said you know what, you guys are on your own? Would he soften his stance toward us? We shall see when Obama is President and that is just what will happen, not that I like McCain, or Hillary thier all crooks as you succinctly pointed out in your CFR expose'
DoubleXMinus

Con

Well, lol I feel sorry for your wife when it comes to that, but I'm sure you make up for it in other ways, eh? Good for you and good luck with your family. About Israel being the focal point of world politics, that's the only part of your other debate I even commented on, where you came up with the Jews being God's chosen people is beyond me, weird man.

1. Thank you, but I'm aware of Palestine being the same area as Israel and this is precisely the reason he mentioned it at all (obviously). There is a clear and undeniable reason as to why the surrounding nations of Israel don't like her very much and it has nothing to do with the bible. Israel was reestablished in 1948 officially, but the "Question of Palestine" began in 1920 with the British Mandate. After the division of the Ottoman Empire, the British claimed rights to this land and decided the Arabs who had inhabited it since the 7th century didn't really matter anymore. Ever since that time there's been a steady trickle of Zionists pushing into a land that isn't rightfully theirs and slowly but surely displacing more and more of the Palestinians. Then came World War II. The steady trickle of Jewish takeover became more like a flood because of the persecution endured by Jews world wide at that time and the British didn't want to deal with it anymore… they handed the land over to the US and then comes the declaration that now the Jews legally own more than half the land and the Palestinians can just deal with being "displaced landlords"… If they have a problem with that and decide to resist, well – then of course they deserve to die and be pushed off *all* of their land. (1)

"Ok Osama is tasting in my view the curse that has been on these people because they are cursing the nation of Israel." Lol, no…

This brief history of how awful we were to these people is just one of our foreign policy decisions we've made that would obviously infuriate them to the point of wanting to kill us (we've sure killed them, haven't we?).

Other horrible policies and things we've done include (but are not limited to…)

The Carter Doctrine
The Iran-Iraq War
and The Persian Gulf War

Now what is really at the center of Middle Eastern Politics? Oil.

The Carter Doctrine, why? Oil. (2)
The Iran-Iraq War, why were we so heartlessly involved? Oil. (3)
The Persian Gulf War, why? Obviously… oil!

Our State Department has documented the Middle East as, "a stupendous source of strategic power and one of the greatest material prizes in the world."(4)

So, why are we in Iraq? What's the reason for 9/11? All of this history is the reason why these people hate us, we've treated them so badly in the name of "securing our national interests" that they have no problem blowing themselves up by now in order to kill us. (Plus, the suicide bombers are ignorant and brain-washed.) Why is all of this happening? It all comes back to oil, not Israel.

2. this is the reason [for being in Iraq] that we understand to be true, but it is also true that Iraq was a major enemy of Isreal." -- I've heard that we're in Iraq for a lot of different reasons, but this truly is the first time I've heard someone say it's really because of Israel, what about you?

3. "What do you think Mouhmudd ALdimnishautoddjihad would do if we backed off from our support of Isreal tomorrow and said you know what, you guys are on your own? Would he soften his stance toward us?"

We've violated promises, we've played both sides of the fence in order to watch Iran and Iraq murder each other, we've tried to rule Iran with a heavy hand (you can't do this, you can't do that) and have just generally mistreated this area since World War II relentlessly… So, would President Ahmadinejad go ahead and decide he doesn't mind us anymore if we backed off our support of Israel? Of course not.

Let me repeat in closing, the centerpiece of middle eastern politics? Oil. So then, what's the focal point of world politics? That's a far more complicated and involved question then I'm prepared to answer, but I have proven here that it isn't Israel.

(1) http://ifamericansknew.org...
(2) http://en.wikipedia.org...
(3) http://www.globalsecurity.org... (Go down to, "Gradual Superpower involvement.)
(4) http://originalbanter.blogspot.com...
Debate Round No. 2
scorpionclone

Pro

<<……Israel was reestablished in 1948 officially, but the "Question of Palestine" began in 1920 with the British Mandate. After the division of the Ottoman Empire, the British claimed rights to this land and decided the Arabs who had inhabited it since the 7th century didn't really matter anymore. Ever since that time there's been a steady trickle of Zionists pushing into a land that isn't rightfully theirs and slowly but surely displacing more and more of the Palestinians……>>

We have to realize how lands are won and lost. According to your line of reasoning, The US, Britain, Spain, Portugal and others are guilty of displacing and killing millions of Native Americans as we methodically and purposefully destroyed their way of life and pillaged their lands.

Why should the Jewish people be demonized for wanting back lands that they at least cultivated and had interests in. They fought for these lands fair and square in a time period century's before. With this line of thinking, America should vacate the lands we are on.

Palestine had the name Israel, prior to being called Palestine. Prior to this through your own research the land was called Canaan. The US was never called the US prior to taking over the country from the Indians. Do believe the US should be removed?

These websites that you are citing are one-sided in nature and therefore subject to the point of view of the writer. I cannot accept the opinion of subjective history as I can easily provide the opposing views of History from the Jewish perspective.

What we do know as common knowledge, is that all members of the UN Security council had to vote in the affirmative for a Jewish state to be created in one day:

Isaiah 66:7-8
Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.

<<….Ever since that time there's been a steady trickle of Zionists pushing into a land that isn't rightfully theirs and slowly but surely displacing more and more of the Palestinians….>>

This statement is pulled from the website and not your own words. In fact, if anyone has a right to the land it's the Jews or (Zionists). Because they have had an interest in the land. As I have shown already, they have more of an interest in these lands and right to them then we do to our lands as Americans, if you use this line of logic.

<
The Carter Doctrine, why? Oil. (2)
The Iran-Iraq War, why were we so heartlessly involved? Oil. (3)
The Persian Gulf War, why? Obviously… oil!

Our State Department has documented the Middle East as, "a stupendous source of strategic power and one of the greatest material prizes in the world."(4)>>

Oil has played a role in politics, I agree. But it is no longer the focal point of world politics, and in fact the oil economy is becoming a bygone era. We are on the cusp of a new transformation and the end of an era of oil based politics. This is why you see the Middle East Nations diversifying their income resources.

Dubai- Investing in Real Estate, Resorts, Hotels, Man Made Islands like Palm Jumeira
Saudi Arabia Real Estate, Alternative Energy
Etc

We made a deal with Saudi Arabia to trade oil in dollars in exchange for the defense of their nation, hence the era of the Petrodollar. But as the dollar has declined and in conjunction with our desertion of Israel, we are rapidly witnessing an end to dollar hegemony and the weakening of US power around the world.

If you take a long look at the rise and fall of the US empire, a relatively "short lived empire" in comparison to the Empires of the past, we can see the positive growth and power of the US grew in relation of our support of the Jewish people. After we ceased to support the Jewish state in the capacity of the past we witnessed the events of our demise.

If we take a longer view at history we will see that this same thing happened to the British Empire, The British Empire grew and prospered in accordance with their support of the Jewish people and their hospitality towards these people when they were in their country.

We all know what happened to Hitler and his minions when they went against the Jews….

The same thing has happened throughout history to similar countries. We all know that America didn't find true greatness and empire status until after it began WWII

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com... (Since we are dueling with websites)

The Carter Doctrine, why? Oil.

This is conjecture. Carter did it because he was a failure as a President and one of the most toothless I have seen in my time. He was responsible for the problems we have with Iran to this day and was trying to look tough. What he did with the Shah in 1979 was reprehensible. But I would also argue that he began a tradition of US presidents trying to negotiate the land for peace deals that have started the decline of the US

This can be argued that these events had a duel purpose. Oil, maybe. Support of events surrounding Israel? Definitely.

The Persian gulf, we were defending Kuwait and protecting Israel from another war among these Arab nations. We are still taking care of Egypt after their defeat embarrassing defeat by Israel in the '67 war.

With Arab-Israeli wars in '48, 67' 73' etc. these wars have coincided with world events.
Countries are divided today based on their stance of opposing or supporting Israel. There has been more United Nations Resolutions proposed and defeated condemning Israel then any other nation on the face of the planet.

Explain this.

Now that we have had a nice little history lesson, whew…

The argument is whether Israel is the focal point of World Politics today. Not whether they belong in Palestine or not.

1. And looking at today, Israel is a growing nation.
2. Israel has more stocks from Israel traded on the US stock market than any other nation next to Canada.
3. Israel has found large Oil deposits in the country that rivals that of it's major neighbors.
4. Israel has more nuclear weapons than China.
5. Israel has more powerful and numerous conventional weapons (Tanks, Artillery, and Fighter Planes) than all of its Arab neighbors combined.
6. Israel has already said that it will not hesitate to use nuclear weapons against its neighbors.

Iran and its Arab allies desire nuclear weapons do counter the threat that Israel poses.

Look for this region to grow in intensity, until Israel destroys and permanently takes over a large portion of the Middle East, or its original lands from the height of their reign

Wow
DoubleXMinus

Con

Scorp starts off his R3 up there ^ by vigorously attacking the historical site I submitted that offers an explanation and comprehensive history of the Israel/Palestine conflict. Before he's finished, he seems to accuse me of plagiarizing which he has since corrected himself in saying the only thing he meant by that was that I was merely regurgitating everything the site said (which is also untrue and misleading)… So I would really encourage everybody to look it over and decide for themselves if it's a reliable source of information or not and how that relates to my prior statements. He also claims it's little more than an opinion piece, but if you would go and look at it I believe you'll find otherwise. He then continues on to mention submitting material from a Jewish perspective when the site I have sourced is published by none other than, "Jews For Justice in the Middle East". Alright, so back to it.

"Why should the Jewish people be demonized for wanting back lands that they at least cultivated and had interests in. They fought for these lands fair and square in a time period century's before. With this line of thinking, America should vacate the lands we are on."

What does fighting for the land fair and square hundreds of years ago have to do with what happened after WWI and WWII? The fact is the British and the US unfairly decided a land that they supposedly "own" (war spoils, you know) should go to someone other than who had currently been there for a very, very long time. Why? Well, I personally believe it's because it was in our best interest to help create a stronghold and ally in the Middle East (which it clearly does benefit us enormously) but for whatever reason, it understandably pissed the Arabian nations off. How can you deny some understanding toward these "cursed" people?

"What we do know as common knowledge, is that all members of the UN Security council had to vote in the affirmative for a Jewish state to be created in one day…"

The Jewish state had been in the making for a lot longer than one day, you're shamelessly oversimplifying in order for reality to fit the bible.

"In fact, if anyone has a right to the land it's the Jews or (Zionists)."

The Jews had no more right to that land than anybody else. "Because the bible tells us this is our land!...." isn't a good enough reason. That land holds significant religious importance to the Palestinians too.

Oil Is the Centerpiece of Middle Eastern Politics:

"Oil has played a role in politics, I agree. But it is no longer the focal point of world politics, and in fact the oil economy is becoming a bygone era. We are on the cusp of a new transformation and the end of an era of oil based politics. This is why you see the Middle East Nations diversifying their income resources."

Scorp seems to agree here that oil at least "once was" the focal point of Middle Eastern politics, but says that is no longer true. In an attempt to back this up, he points out that Middle Eastern nations are diversifying their energy and income resources and… he doesn't seem to say much else about it?

Problem is oil is still just as important right now as it always has been. Middle Eastern nations are looking for alternatives because they know that the oil won't last forever. How does them knowing that somehow make it less important than it was a hundred years ago? It doesn't.

How the World Treats the Jews Determines Their Fate:

"If you take a long look at the rise and fall of the US empire, a relatively "short lived empire" in comparison to the Empires of the past, we can see the positive growth and power of the US grew in relation of our support of the Jewish people. After we ceased to support the Jewish state in the capacity of the past we witnessed the events of our demise."

…………… Okay, so you're saying America is rewarded by God when we are helpful toward the Jews and then we're punished by Him when we no longer act in the Jew's best interest? Not only that, but same goes for the former British Empire and the whole world? Lol, I gotta say – your God sounds rather iffy to me...

"The same thing has happened throughout history to similar countries. We all know that America didn't find true greatness and empire status until after it began WWII."

…………… Right, we were just a little village of mostly Caucasian people over here until then?

The Carter Doctrine:

"Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force." – President Cartor.

That means, "You Russians go near our oil, we'll kill you." … How can you say that has to do with Israel in the least?

The Persian Gulf War:

The only part Israel played in this is when Saddam decided he'd attack them with SCUD missiles in an attempt to unify the Arab nations and get them on his side and less anti-Iraq. Our problem with him invading Kuwait had to do with him putting our "vital interests" in danger. Which vital interests? He was putting our oil in danger, we didn't like it – it's not that complicated.

"Countries are divided today based on their stance of opposing or supporting Israel. There has been more United Nations Resolutions proposed and defeated condemning Israel then any other nation on the face of the planet."

I really hope that you're not talking about first world countries because that would be rather ridiculous and you have provided no proof of your second statement.

Then Scorp finishes off by giving us a description of Israel that has nothing to do with whether it's the focal point of world politics or not…

Conclusion:

I have given plenty of reasons and examples as to why oil is the centerpiece of Middle Eastern politics and Scorp has failed to give back anything but a distortion of reality in order to match what he sees in the world with what he reads in the bible… So? Make of that what you will?
Debate Round No. 3
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by scorpionclone 8 years ago
scorpionclone
http://www.breitbart.com...

keep a close eye
Posted by scorpionclone 8 years ago
scorpionclone
It's all good, I really meant no harm, I got a little turned around there, I apologized to DXM for it, so thats all I can do. It's not like she's losing by alot.

I give her respect for her efforts, she's really smart!!

**thumbs up**
Posted by ghegeman 8 years ago
ghegeman
Sorry DoubleX, read quickly didn't look at the sources like I usually do.
Just assumed he wouldnt accuse you for no reason.
Also Scorp, he encouraged us to read the debate. I went in with an open mind and Paradigm actually voted for you, so he was recruiting voters.
Posted by DoubleXMinus 8 years ago
DoubleXMinus
Lol, *shakes her head* Shut up, crazy man.
Posted by scorpionclone 8 years ago
scorpionclone
Whoa easy......

When did I insult you?

I don't care if other people vote for you. It was a joke.

I didn't mean to hurt your "internet" feelings
Posted by DoubleXMinus 8 years ago
DoubleXMinus
I'm not "recruiting" voters, these two came from a different debate that is loosely connected to this one and I was wondering about their opinion as to why the voting went the way it did. Paradigm didn't even vote, so there you have it. Why are you always slinging these passive aggressive insults around?

If you want to talk about debate etiquette, let's talk about how you continued to debate in the comments section after it was finished or how you manipulated voters with false accusations, a pretty low and intellectually weak blow when it comes trying to discredit your opponent in anything resembling a scholarly way -- now quit insulting me because I've done nothing to warrant it.
Posted by scorpionclone 8 years ago
scorpionclone
Hey, it's all about what the audience will actually remember about the debate. The passion, the slapstick, *innuendo*, although it wasn't on purpose (promise). I said I was sorry, but that site is definitely biased and I personlly feel there's some revisionist history going on there.

The bible is relevant, it's the jewish equivalent of an american history book. It contains geneology, famly history, heck they still have 12 tribes of Judah, haven't you heard of the King David Hotel. It's very relevant.

I still think your cool to debate with though. At least you don't "get all crazy!!" when I say something you don't like...

But wehat's this recruiting for votes thing you got going on, your taking it really serious now??

I'm outta here........
Posted by DoubleXMinus 8 years ago
DoubleXMinus
*Smacks Scorp upside the head* Look at what you're making people think, crazy man.
Posted by DoubleXMinus 8 years ago
DoubleXMinus
Thank you for coming and reading, both of you.

"PRO also masterfully used the Bible in conjunction with current affairs quite well to convincingly tie them together, where as you only used current affairs. That is like giving up half of the debate since you are missing crucial elements. In this case, the Bible and their specific prophecies."

The debate, from the very beginning, was *supposed* to be about *Gives Scorp a dirty look* what the focal point of today's world politics is. He said the focal point of today's world politics is Israel, I disagreed... which is why current events are what I focused on. A lot of his bible scriptures and arguments I didn't address the way I could have because I found it irrelevent to the debate? Lol, I guess I should have.

Gheg, I want to make sure you know that I didn't, in any way, copy from my source. Perhaps I lost votes because of Scorp's incorrect allegations that I plagiarized in any way, which pissed me off for a second but he apologized... so how can you stay mad, right? Especially the bit he picked out to accuse me with, the site I sourced and got my information from said nothing of the kind, that was the conclusion I had always gotten from any history having to do with Israel and Palenstine and a conclusion that was backed up (yet again) by my source... which I sited... did you go to it?

Perhaps I should have attacked the allegation more vehemently.

Thank you for the advice and reviews guys, I really appreciate it.
Posted by ghegeman 8 years ago
ghegeman
*critique

Is what I meant when I typed that.
14 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Yoni 8 years ago
Yoni
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