The Instigator
Aceviper2011
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
Albert
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Bible has Flaws

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Aceviper2011
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/10/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,905 times Debate No: 29065
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (85)
Votes (4)

 

Aceviper2011

Pro

First round is acceptance
Pros position is to prove that the bible does have flaws, this can go with condradictions, science, false prophecies, etc. Since I am pro i will have to show evidence and proof of flaws the bible does have, this debate will be diverse meaning anything goes, any source can be used upon with debators explanations, also predictions, and end of world, also wrong and right can be used to prove points and arguements also. LIke i said this debate is diverse can be about anything as long as both opponents can prove there arguements if the bible is flaw or not flaw.

Con position is the same thing, he can use science, and the bible as he please any website, source anything he needs to prove the bible has NO flaws.

I used my first round to explain the rules and guidlines as everyone can see there simple. both opponents just have to prove and argue with no restrictions if the bible is flaw or not flaw.

CON: my opponent
His POSITION: proving the bible has NO flaws

Pro: which is ME
Position: Proves that the bible has flaws

wish my opponent goodluck with this debate.
Albert

Con

I accept.

Since I stand on Con, and i already believe the Bible has no flaws, i have no material to present...unless people want me to list endless teachings on which prove there are no flaws. I think people and my opponent may find this a waste.

I think Aceviper2011 has alot of interesting topics to bring up, which i can respond to.

*One thing, is it ok if we use a number or something to indicate what we're talking about?

I know that we refer to topics frequently, and sometimes we talk about the topic with different additions, so i hope i can keep it clear for others to see and understand what we're talking about without getting lost.
Debate Round No. 1
Aceviper2011

Pro

Perfection: a word describing of no contradictions, no flaws, everything is perfect, basically meaning no wrong, staying up all night thinking about this debate, reading some of the bible, making an arguement that will show contradiction, which leads to flaws was actually tiresome. When I used the word perfection I first needed to make it clear before even starting this debate that perfection means no wrong, as comon sense knows. This is a side note to remember about perfection.

1) Psalms 18:30 says God is perfect, the Word of Lord (God) is flawless.
A)When looking at the word perfect, we see that he does no wrong, he commands no wrong, his word proves to have no contradictions making it flawless.
2) Pure of love, pure in the mind of the body, pure spirit. When something or someone is pure they believe in nothing but great, sinless ways. No evil done, No evil do.
3) Commands of god must be follow, if you failed and disobey god you will be cursed says in Deuteronomy 28: 15-66.
4) God is a merciful god, goodness, etc... says in Ex 34:6.

I would like my opponent and veiwers to keep in mind them four numbers I just wrote about are just side notes.

We now shall began with Contradictions which makes the bible flaw.

A) In christianity one is to believe the bible is "Word of God", so everything written in the bible is of God, or from God.
a.) Now one of the biggest flaws of the bible being the "word of god" is that it was written by "man". Think about that for a minute. When someone ask a Priest or Christain, why was the word of god written by mans hands? the answer given to most people is "well god spoke through his Apostles and Disiples to write his own Word meaning GOD.
b) Now taking the understanding how how God his word to society through his followers by speaking through them as they wrote gods words from god himself. Take a second to open the mind of the human body, according to the bible God is almighty, created all, said from his mouth as words to create the earth, the heavens, speaking the words and then there it happens. Why is god, asking men to write the bible, if in the end God really could just say Bible and it was then created. but as the books grew more and more time goes by shows that men wrote it, when God could just say like i said "bible, Words of my own" then a second later it would of been created just like, according to the bible in Gen god spoke of light and there was light. As time goes to me and to actual understanding it took a second to create everything as the seven days progress. Now seven days according to Christianity when people started to realise that it took seven days to create everything according to "god" christianity started saying well seven days could mean "years". well then if God said in his own word seven days, then seven days is seven days. There was no spoken of Seven years or seven thousand years. So now showing some evidence and understanding in the end of it all men wrote the bible, creating not the word of god but the word of men.
that little paragraph is a contradiction which leads to a flaw.

Commanding of God
A) another flaw in the bible, would be the commands of god to one man for his people. If the bible is God Word why would god command killing forbided ex 20:13, then in ex 20:13 command killing. Knowing from the bible god is good, and his word is perfect, god is perfect and despise evil. why would god command such an evil act, meaning another reason why truely this book written by men, not by god, if your going to explain how good and great god is even through song, then tell of god command to kill, leaves a big whole in the bible of contradiction, then making the word of god spoken from god through man a flaw.
B) Now it said don't disobey gods commands, well if we take a good look at Deuteronomy 28: 15-66. so when you disobey you get punish and cursed. Now go back you really truely think God would write a book full of evil from the all pure god himself. now heres something else to take a look at. that it shows men wrote the bible. and truely isnt god words leaving the bible with another flaw.
C) in 1 John 2:3-6 said him allot, meaning him as in god. another reason to why men wrote the bible leading to many flaws. It continues with flaws and contradictions, I wish I could put all them down but i have to keep at a median but will continue more in my next round but in the mean time i shall continue.

Another big flaw is creation, was the bible truely made to scare people, to keep order, to give people faith, or was this truely gods word book of perfection since god is perfect with no flaws but why if god word is flawless shows contradictions leading to flaws. Creation is a huge flaw, showing men creating the bible, which means the bible created my imperfection beings, which creates flaw.

Here goes creation not the beginning or the end no a creation that could have been prevented before man touched the earth. Evil.

The bible states god knows All- meaning he knows past, present, and future, also god creator of all, now when we ask a christian why does evil lurk, and why did god create evil, the answer you will get is "freewill" given to us by god. All i night I even thought about that, see god knowing the future knew freewill before even given. Since god according to the bible Creator of all, he created the devil, now my opponent is going to argue well god gave the devil freewill. Common Sense tells us that God knew of the creation of the devil before he created the devil, he knew all that was going to happen, he knew about freewill before he even created that, he knew of the evil before evil was brought. In the bible it says Those who committ evil in there minds done evil in there hearts, well did god ever think that he had evil in his heart, by visualizing evil before it start. God knows all, so he knew he created evil, they say the devil created evil but since bible stated god creator of all, he created the devil and knew what the devil was capabile of. Thats a flaw in the bible, and another thing to realize when god created Hell, He created Jesus as men savior those who believe in jesus and ask for forgivness jesus will die on the cross for our sins. Well since God created jesus, and said He gave his own begotten son to perish for us for everlasting life. ok well god forgot to mention in his word god himself being forgiven. as god created all, and knew of all, he first had to visualize, and not only that his commands, All of evil doing, God could of gave us freewill to just choose only right things to do. So since according to the bible god is beginning and end who saves god and forgives him, and since god had no forgivness he should be at what he created hell. So as i say with a even big flaw like that in the bible, did god realize all the imperfections, the contradictions of his words the flaws of his voice, or did man create the bible sounds more reason for men to have that many flaws when there are more in the bible then just that. Men make contradictions and flaws in life, so did man create the bible stating its gods words, saying how perfect he is and good but down the line forget some of the writtings leaving the bible with flaws and contradictions. i think yes. Like i said in the beginning if God truely wanted to make his Words all he had to do was basicaly snap his fingers and make a perfect book with no flaws or contradictions. Not taking years to put on book together. or speak with man to write his book.

Now i hand the debate over to my opponent, The flaws and contradictions were bible source only, there are many more flaws and contradictions not posted yet, on this arguement, these were a few of the major flaws and contradiction on the bible, and God word. I can not wait to hear my opponents arguement of proving the bible has no flaws, and no contradictions, that the bible is purely flawless.

Goodluck to my opponent
Albert

Con

a) Word of God, by man.

1. Interesting to note, that the Catholic bible has done exactly what AceViper2011 is talking about. They inserted false books into the Catholic bible to confirm their false teachings. When someone understands this from a historical point of view, then the Bible we have today is far more powerful since it's not so obviously tainted by man.

What ive just said isnt going to hold alot of weight, but it should educate the fact that man has in the past tried to insert false teachings, and that people today can see from a doctrine and historical point of view, that this alone holds a foundation, over other so called words of God. What i mean by this, is when people look into Catholics and Islam, the historical foundation and alteration by man compared to the Bible, is like chalk and cheese.

2. In relation to writing the bible. Moses actually talked to God face to face. Someone which noone ever did. God dictated his word to man, which is very common in all forms of society, and this form of communication has grounding and a strong foundation alone. Yet God did much more, he forged a nation, man himself man, and died in a historical manner which confirmed all his ancient writings.

God created the earth in six days, seventh he rested.

Commanding of God.

A) The biblical link Aceviper2011 was "killing forbid ex 20:13, then in ex 20:13 command killing."

Ill need to wait for him to confirm which two verses he's referring to, since they're both the same.

B) It's normal for parents to discipline their children. Only parents who love their children discipline them. God loved us so much, he didnt want man to be cursed, so he killed his own innocent son for us. So we will never be cursed.

C) Jesus's deity isnt compromised just because they referred to God as him. John is known to have written all his books based off love. God waited to be known to mankind through a human form, to show that Yahway is a loving personal God, not a alien who lives in statues. John used the words him, to close the gap between man and God.

But there is certainly no factual bases for saying that this is made by the hands of man. I urge you to look into the Koran, Catholic bible, bible of Jehovah witness, and Mormons . You will soon learn the difference between books from a real living God who applies rules for all time, and a god made by man.

-One of your comments: Man is flawed so what they write is by default flawed. Problem is, they are not writing on their own behalf, they are guided by word and action by something which is perfect.

D) Evil.
Only example you get is,

"If you love your own child, and teach all the good things of how to live, then later in life becomes a mass murder. Can i accuse you of creating a evil human?"

RE: God could of gave us freewill to just choose only right things to do.

He did, and does. Everyday you have the ability to choose only right things to do. But if there was a button in the back of your head which you flick so you only do good, and not bad, then your a robot who has no choice. He is forced to only do good because of the switch, so he isnt acting in free will at all.

RE: ok well god forgot to mention in his word god himself being forgiven.

What sin did Jesus commit? He didnt commit any sin, so he doesnt need to be forgiving.

RE: if God truely wanted to make his Words all he had to do was basicaly snap his fingers and make a perfect book with no flaws or contradictions.

When someone buys a car, but doesnt know how to drive it.
Tell me, what is the difference between someone throwing you a manual in how to drive -
and someone standing beside you, sitting in the seat by you, talking to you, teaching you how to drive.

When your child wants to drive Aceviper2011, will you throw a manual on how to drive at him? Or will you show him personally on how to drive?

I used a reference in driving to your question. Because what your saying is, Why didnt God make a manual for the human race? Why not just tell us how to do things correctly?

The same reason why loving parents dont throw manuals at their children. Remember, we are made in the image of God, so we humans do things to our children in the same manner as God does to his children.
Debate Round No. 2
Aceviper2011

Pro

Awh but my opponent doesn't realize the version of the bible I had gotten all my information from, Lets talk christianity bible, how many versions of the christianity bibles they have in this world. The main version of the bible used by christianity is the king james version, also new king james version. So as I failed to mention to my opponent the version I was using, was not Catholic Bible, but the KJV and the NKJV. Also note I have attended a Christian Church, also school, we used KJV or NKJV.

Albert 1.) Interesting to note, that the Catholic bible has done exactly what AceViper2011 is talking about. They inserted false books into the Catholic bible to confirm their false teachings. When someone understands this from a historical point of view, then the Bible we have today is far more powerful since it's not so obviously tainted by man.

RE.) The word bible is that not the same as all man and also god in the bible say its gods word. Does it not say bible at the end of the word catholic. Was God not mentioned in the Catholic bible, just as he is in the Christian Bible, they both praise the same god, both mentions jesus christ as the son of god, also both mentions the virgin mary, so in reality both bibles are the same. Then you stated "the bible we have today is far more powerful since its not so obviously tainted by man". Does that mean since both list and talk about the same people you agreed that obviously tainted by man, agreeing to the bible having flaws. The evidence and proof is in your own words. continuing on

My opponent also said " What ive just said isnt going to hold alot of weight, but it should educate the fact that man has in the past tried to insert false teachings, and that people today can see from a doctrine and historical point of view, that this alone holds a foundation, over other so called words of God." your words intrigue me especially when my opponent said "over other so called words of god" the christian and society even knows there are even today more then just one version of christianity bible versions. Now my opponent looked at bibles since so many as so called words pural meaning more then one of god. so we shall continue

2) In relation to writing the bible. Moses actually talked to God face to face. Someone which noone ever did. God dictated his word to man, which is very common in all forms of society, and this form of communication has grounding and a strong foundation alone. Yet God did much more, he forged a nation, man himself man, and died in a historical manner which confirmed all his ancient writings. my opponent said.

RE) Contradiction: Someone which noone ever did. If noone ever did then how did someone if noone ever did. In relation to writing the bible meaning god had a third party, proving man did write the bible not god. as you said in relation to writing the bible, last I know moses was a man. Heres a contradiction and flaw of the bibles, even christianity. About someone talking to God face to face. Gen 32:30 states, “…for I have seen God face to face. heres a verse that said different John 1:18 states, “No man hath seen God at any time… there is a flaw to someone talking with god face to face. Coming from the bible. So you know its the christian bible I got this from ill post a link, plus this link also has allot more information you might want to consider to read. http://www.freethoughtdebater.org...

Now to clear up the Killing forbid thing, the second verse that god commanded killing was EX 32:27.

B) It's normal for parents to discipline their children. Only parents who love their children discipline them. God loved us so much, he didnt want man to be cursed, so he killed his own innocent son for us. So we will never be cursed.

RE) Glad you brought that up, my opponent believes that the bible is god words. My opponent also said god loved us so much, he didnt want man to be cursed, so he killed his own innocent son for us. So we will never be cursed. Now voters take a good look at that According to the bible of christians Deuteronomy 28: 15-66 explains curses by god if you do not obey his every command closely. Here is the link: http://www.biblestudytools.com...

Another thing that my opponent caught my eye on is about children and discipline, since my opponent call the christian book the word of god, written in god word that shows no flaws. As you see my oponent said god loved us so much, he didnt want man to be cursed, so he killed his own innocent son for us. basically the verse he used is John 3:16. Remeber that love by god. when in the christian bible by god commanded these laws Here is some of the love god shared with children, stating from a christian book. Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it
God created the word according to my opponent, so where was the love for these children when today we have children that disobey also, But also god did say thou shall not kill, so basically God broke his own laws, also the bible contradict itself with killing and murdering, Another flaw in the bible.
God never killed his son, gods chosen people killed his son. It does say in the christian bible, also in the other bibles too.

One of your comments: Man is flawed so what they write is by default flawed. Problem is, they are not writing on their own behalf, they are guided by word and action by something which is perfect My opponent words

RE) after showing evidences and proof from the christian book plus links that shows how truely perfect god is and gods word is showing flaws, and contradictions and evil from god.

God according to the christian knows All, so being so good and none flawless and pure of love according to the book of bible that describes god, why would he even dream to put free will and create the devil knowing all was evil. God had a choice to keep himself and everything he created which is all according to the christian bible pure of love, no evil. So why did he do it, unless that proves man truely wrote all of the bible themselves, just put the books together to make one. Other then that if god create the bible as his word, never spoken to what bible, it is still his word, then God was not perfect and by evidence i just shown he does have flaws in his own book and in himself, also he decieved us all.

My opponent example what he used to explain when i said "if god truely created the bible he could of just snap his fingers, or speak with out speaking through any man to write his word with no flaws, and with perfection". Well his example to that was driving and a manual, well im going to just say I do apoligize but that still does not prove this what i am about to say.

If according to god in his word the bible, said God said let there be light so there was light, let there be darkness and the darkness came to seperate the light from day, let there be man and there was man created of dust, let there be woman created by a man rib. focus on that, all god did was spoke let there be and it will be, so if god could do that then why not god say with no one writing it for him let there be the word of god, for we shall call it the bible. and there it will be just like the light, darkness, sun, moon, man, woman, earth, sky, ground, heaven, hell. but no god never said let there be a book to speak my word, then there would be no flaws and there will be a perfect book. but he did not do that, instead he spoke words through men for them to write the book, in the end they were never truely god words as i just proven it with basic knowledge, they were written by men, the word of men. if truely written by god there would be authors only from god himself
Albert

Con

1) Bible differences.

-Point i was making: I made a reference to how Aceviper2011 is saying the Bible was made by man, so i simply said, Yes your correct, man has -tried- to forge their own bible, its called Catholic bible, Koran, Jehovah's witness, Mormons. All of these claim they're from God, by changing words around.

So i ask Aceviper2011 to understand that, if you want to see what a bible looks when it's touched by man, look at the differences between the KJ bible compared to them.

The Catholic bible isnt like, or similar to the KJ version at all. Here are some chapters which Catholic bible has which the bible of KJ does not see them as legitimate words from God, due to historical, factual, and doctrine errors. AKA tampered.

Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus (or Sirach), and Baruch. Catholic Bibles also include an additional six chapters (107 verses) in Esther and three chapters (174 verses) in Daniel.
Some were forged, and tried to make verses appear older then they actually were.

Quote from Jesus himself - Luke 11:27-28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."
28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
I could talk alot about the differences in the Cathloic bible, but this should be enough.

http://www.catholic.org...

RE: Many bible versions.

We have alot of versions, and translations, but they're all translated from two languages into every other language in the world. Hebrew for OT, and Greek for NT.
Reason why so many difference versions is due to copyrights. None of the bibles change in teaching.
Some are Aramaic, but this isnt a problem in terms of translation due to the disciplines understanding of languages. Since it was normal for them to speak in 2-3 languages at the time, and repeat words back and forth, and write with ease.

RE: Aceviper2011 said "Then you(Albert) stated "the bible we have today is far more powerful since its not so obviously tainted by man". Does that mean since both list and talk about the same people you agreed that obviously tainted by man, agreeing to the bible having flaws. The evidence and proof is in your own words."

What you claim has no proof, since the foundation you've used is incorrect. Since you do not understand how vastly different the Catholic bible is, you made this false statement.

RE: Paragraph above 2)
My statement, "other so called words of God." Is in relation to other religions pulling scriptures from the bible and calling it God. Since this is about man altering the bible, im education you about how many people have altered it for their own desire.

2)
a) I see you used a silly twist of my own words, since my grammer was off. Just because my grammer is off, doesnt mean the bible is wrong.
I would have thought people would understand, but if you feel the need to go into such detail, ill explain.
Moses talked to God face-to-face, no man has ever talked to God like Moses. Jesus did, but he is God.

b) The highly detailed definition in the way your going about this, is more a play on words, rather then whole arguments. If you could only hear some arguments about other doctrines, you would understand.

Ill continue - Moses spoke to God, in a form which isnt his true form, he came as a cloud on the MT to give the commandments, Moses spoke to another form of God.
Because your so crucial on detail, then the small details will be the counter argument - although i think readers will not be impressed as this sounds petty.

Numbers 12:8 Common English.
With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?"

Numbers 12:8 Hebrew
With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of Y"hw" יָהוֶה shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant M"""

The word used -Similitude- means

1) form, image, likeness, representation, semblance
something portioned (that is, fashioned) out, as a shape, that is, (indefinitely) phantom, or (specifically) embodiment, or (figuratively) manifestation (of favor):"image, likeness, similitude.
Likeness, representation, phantom.
These words are not the same as flesh of God, or Gods real face. These words say, "likeness, image, phantom.

http://www.qbible.com...
http://lexiconcordance.com...

B) Aceviper2011 said: "But also god did say thou shall not kill, so basically God broke his own laws, also the bible contradict itself with killing and murdering"
Jesus was a sacrifice, not a murder victim. It would seem you do not understand the difference between a sacrifice and killing/murder.

C) Aceviper2011 said "so if god could do that then why not god say with no one writing it for him let there be the word of god, for we shall call it the bible."
But before that he rejected my reply, but only half of my reply, without understand what i said.
"Well his example to that was driving and a manual, well im going to just say I do apologize but that still does not prove this what i am about to say. "
Aceviper2011 isnt understanding that ive said "God wants to be a personal God." The usage of teaching how to drive your child, sitting beside them, guiding, teaching, correcting is part of parenting. So when my Aceviper2011 says, God said, let there be light and there was light, so why couldn't God say, Let there be the word of God, and call it the bible?
Aceviper2011, Why didnt God throw a handbook at Adam and Eve? Why did he walk with them in the garden, instead of giving them homework?
My reply to him, is the same as before - God is a personal God, he didnt want to throw manuals in the face of his creation, he wanted to walk with us, like he did with Adam.
God revealed himself through people, and it's recorded in the bible. Which aka means, The revelation of people knowing God. Because God didnt throw books from the sky, but we wrote about how God came to us. Personal God.

Exodus 32:27
-Its not nice, true, but sadly, the people broke the law first, not God. If a man murders and is judged, and put to death, is the judge committing murder? So if they broke two of the first and powerful laws, should they be judged or not?

It's clear that God says do not kill, and it's clear God says:

6 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
7 "You shall have no other gods before[b] me.
8 "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
---
The Hebrews placed the golden calf before God, which break the two strongest commandments. Remember the penalty for murder is death, and so God saw they broke two of the most important rules, also - they were saved by God recently from Egypt, yet they defile him? God passed judgment upon these people.
Very harsh isnt it, to put a brother to death, and yet these people had no excuse for breaking these two laws. They spat in the face of God twice after being saved with all Gods power from Egypt. God parted the sea, rained fire and ice on Egypt and more, yet they do this?

RE: ) Aceviper2011 has no responded to my:
D) Evil.
Only example you get is,
"If you love your own child, and teach all the good things of how to live, then later in life becomes a mass murder. Can i accuse you of creating a evil human?"
Debate Round No. 3
Aceviper2011

Pro

Well I think I need to come at this in a whole new way, my topic of my debate is the bible has flaws, I am for meaning I show that the bible has flaws in its teachings, such as contradictions, etc.... My opponent is con trying to prove the bible has no flaws.

Now my whole attention of these arguements are showing contradictions in the christian bible, well my opponent brought up the catholic bible, then korea, all other types of bibles. When my topic and my explanations and proven verses of contradictions supports my topic, Why at the end of each contradiction and flaw I point out I do state that the bible have flaws. So i keep my debate revelant to my topic, as i explained in the first round about this debate, was for me to show proof that the bible has flaws, this could mean contradicitons, using any resource available, never specify a certian bible, for a bible is a bible. I could use anything i please even the bible itself as a source of proving there are flaws and contradictions of the bible.

My opponent which still fails to show but yet in terms agree with me in some spots of his arguements, but as con is suppose to show how the bible has no flaws what so ever,, and nor contradictions, that the book is truely non flawless, for he has failed to show there are no contradictions, also he is able to use any source he pleases, meaning any type of bible, or website. For all the contradictions I pointed out showing the bible has flaws, but yet he claims that I am not viewing the KJV bible to prove any flaws and contradictions.

He states this version of the bible christian bible, but i also mention to him that I was using the KJV and NKJV as findings of contradictions and flaws upon the bible. Yet my opponent still has not proved me any different of mind the bible is perfect with no flaws.

KJ does not see them as legitimate words from God, due to historical, factual, and doctrine errors. AKA tampered. My opponent said this in his last arguement. but what my opponent do not realise the word of god is the word of god no matter what bible. He telling me the difference when he is failing to show me the evidence of the bible not being flaw, when most people now tries to debate heres is an example tries to debate a christian, something like this, christiains most likely start denying the word of god but they do not realise it, To sit there and say well this version is not the word of god but this version is, this other one is false but this one is not false, thats saying since one bible is not the other but one denies one from the other they right away deny the word of god. A bible is a bible, since all these christians speak of perfection and the bible is always right and there are no flaws to the bible, but when it comes down to the point of proving right away religion attacks themselves, throwing all signs away from true religion. one thats believe in the word of god.

Who to say to your religions that and say catholic is wrong, but christian is right, or christian is right but catholic is wrong. If your christian you disapprove of the catholic BIBLE, or the catholics of the christians. that shows flaw in religion and in the bible itself, for the bible states from religion its the word of god, so when god said in the catholic bible this is his word, are you denying his word, or lets say in christian bible that one is god word, and in both books there both gods words according to the bible itselves. So when you try to prove the bible has no flaws and no contradictions were does your arguement stand to proving the bible has no flaws, but yet both say word of god, but as you say its misprinted or tainted by men.

I hope you understanding what i am saying, this debate is about the bible has flaw and im for that and right now Im the only one showing you contradictions of the bible leading to the not perfect book and many flaws to the bible. Your so quick to attack catholics when its about the bible not religion. Both books are said from religion they are the word of god. they both have bible at the end of the religion, so one to say one is reworded, also has doctrine errors. AKA tampered your saying that all bibles are like that, why When i posted on my topic i was talking about the bible is flaw, when i listed you can use any resource you want, I mainly used Christian bible as a source with common sense logic to show my points on how the bible is flaw showing contridictions.

My opponent tries to debate off topics not showing how the bible holds no flaws, the only basic arguement he had was God said so, God word is not false, but yet showing no evidence from sources, or anything that the bible doesnt not contridicts itself. A bible is a Bible. if a bible is not a bible regardless the religion then please tell me what the difference of a bible from a bible is...

All those things I pointed of flaws and contradictions were just showing you my evidence from your own christian book how it has flaws, not debating what he said or she said, but only showing you verses, and verses of what one book said in the bible to what another book said into the same bible Aka christrian bible.

Voters as you can see my opponent still fails to do what he is suppose to do and that is show how the bible has no flaws, no contradictions, but he has been contradicting himself in this whole debate, when you read what my opponent says he downs a bible, just not cause its not his bible he reads, when a bible is a bible regardless the religion, in the end they believe in a higher being. making the bible to what according to religion says the word of god or there god no matter what god or who god it is, my opponent still says a different bible is falsy made, and is tampered, meaning he has proven to me and my viewers that the bible has flaws. Unless he can show that the bible has no flaws no contradictions.

I've shown verses, I've shown my proof, even websites showing him the bible i was using and that was the christian bible. but i could of been using the catholic, or hebrew, or muhmad bible if i wanted too, to prove there are flaws and contradictions of the bible. but of courtesy I used the christian bible more. to show flaws to that bible, and contradictions.

I know i continued to argue some of the things my opponent has argued, but I felt like I should of said something since there are only two rounds left. To remind my opponent that he is suppose to show us there are no flaws, no contradictions. not trying to prove the bible is true, as my opponent said its what you believe, but this is not about forcing religion this is a simple debate of proving the bible has no flaws or contradictions.

We can go on and on about the side topics brought up but as you can see i did state at the end of each statement that shows the flaw or shows the contraditiction of the bible making my point. and my evidence.

So my opponent has two more rounds, I felt like he needed to read the first round and what i said, and read the topic for he is against the bible having flaws, but also see there are no specific source you can use anything. meaning any bible, he suppose to show how the bible has no flaws nor contradictions. the way he stated somethings there are flaws, and contradictions of the bible.

I ask my opponent to re read my topic and my first round.

I also want to let my viewers know I have shown contradictions, and flaws of the bible.
Albert

Con

"Well I think I need to come at this in a whole new way, my topic of my debate is the bible has flaws, I am for meaning I show that the bible has flaws in its teachings, such as contradictions."
Just because you say that, doesn't give you the ability to not answer all of my replies.
A, B, C, D, E, 1, 2 and several comments ive crossed checked.

RE: I said "KJ does not see them as legitimate words from God, due to historical, factual, and doctrine errors. AKA tampered."
Aceviper2011 - My opponent said this in his last argument. but what my opponent do not realize the word of god is the word of god no matter what bible.

If this is the case, then your changing the topic away from one type of god, and allowing the usage of -any- god. Lets use the Korans god vs bible and see what happens? If you are going to follow this logic, then i shall respond with my own logic.
You cannot disprove my Gods integrity, yet you cannot prove KJ bible is flawed.
So if your going to say, the bible is flawed then which one? Or all of them?
Ok, lets start with Torah (50% is from the bible) Christian bible, Catholic bible, Koran which says it's the perfected version, or addition to the bible. Or Jehovah's witness bible, and Mormons who claim the same thing. Then we have the New Age moment which also use parts of the bible.
So, i shall let you begin by proving all these bibles are flawed, until you come to the bible i believe in, then we can continue the debate.
---
Ive replied to all points, and ive noted in round 3 he didnt answer my reply about topic
A, B, C, D, 1), 2) - All because he changed this debate details at the 4th Round.
---
I noted in Round 1, about my application to evidence process, which it appears Aceviper2011 is overlooking so he can say im not defending.
-----Round 1-----
I accept.

Since I stand on Con, and i already believe the Bible has no flaws, i have no material to present...unless people want me to list endless teachings on which prove there are no flaws. I think people and my opponent may find this a waste.

I think Aceviper2011 has alot of interesting topics to bring up, which i can respond to.
------
As you can see, im defending my personal opinion after Aceviper2011 already has alot of material to use to prove his position.
If Voters and Aceviper2011 want me to go through every single area of the KJ bible to prove that it's not flawed, then can we allow for 5 million words per Round?
Just replying to you questions -only- has used 8,000 letters. I dont have a chance to input anymore information due to the word limit.
So in my position i have two choices. Dont answer all your questions and give my own points 50% to 50%, then you will say im avoiding questions. Or if i answer all your questions you say im not making any points.
Interesting to note, ive actually done both. Ive answered his questions and shown that -other- so called bibles are very flawed in doctrine and historical accounts. Koran taking 200 years after Muhammad died to even start writing about his life. Or Jehovah witness and Mormons denying Jewish traditions, and being highly inaccurate historically. Also Catholics who teach "be not to do not marry" and "pray to Mary" which are both totally fabricated.
------
"I also want to let my viewers know I have shown contradictions, and flaws of the bible."
Ok, show me one that i haven't already answered?
----
"Well I think I need to come at this in a whole new way, my topic of my debate is the bible has flaws, I am for meaning I show that the bible has flaws in its teachings, such as contradictions."
Just because you say that, doesn't give you the ability to not answer all of my replies.
A, B, C, D, E, 1, 2 and several comments ive crossed checked.
Debate Round No. 4
Aceviper2011

Pro

My opponent Albert still fails to see where I am coming from on the main sourse of bible I am using, It is his KJ version, also the Nkj version. His bible he reads, the christian bible, Then once I said a bible is a bible right away he wants to change the type of God, and change the whole debate. To Korean God vs the bible. Then see what happens, you know what happens, nothing why cause you failed to see that were talking about a book not a god, in the end the god will win over a book made of paper.

my opponent also told me this yet you cannot prove KJ bible is flawed.
RE:
Have I shown that i was getting my sources from the KJ bible, and if the king james bible is not flaw but perfect then explain the New King James Bible. Which is a version as you can see after the regular king james. Since i been using all my sources and information from the KJV and the NJKV. but yet my opponent still insist that i been using the catholic version of the bible.

Then my opponent said I am avoiding questions, Whats more is there to prove on the questions you ask that i already did prove to you that your bible is flaw, not even from the catholic bible but from the christian bible.

So my opponent states then that hes provided the answer to showing why one verse from the kj bible contradicts another verse of the kj. So my opponent said he answer the question of the pure love god that later gave commands to kill children if they only disobey, my opponent said he gave the answer to his christian book god, that he does not curse that he gave his son up, but yet cursed before his son was even born, but yet he claims god spoke through men to create this bible, when it says in gen that god spoke for things to be created not say well i spoke unto John to create light for he created light, i spoke unto moses so he can create heaven, and earth, and beast and man, see my opponent answers well god spoke through someone to create the bible, when god is all power and all mighty, to create the earth with just word why couldnt he truely create a perfect flawless book. Please do not say he did, if he truely did create a christian bible flawless he would of done it himself, he would of spoken the words to himself like he did with the earth, as i see even thats bigger then the bible. plus the universe and the heavens there bigger then the bible,

Then doesnt your bible say in KJ that the devil is decietful, to make men, to speak into mens ears to do things, just like in your book he did to eve as a serpent, To make eve eat the fruit to dicieve her to eating the fruit. Well that scenero can be played as in god word, Could the devil have truely spoke to men to write the bible, making god good then god evil. Could the devil himself told man to write in your KJ version that killing is ok, that when a child a dang child disobeys to be killed, weres the flawless in that, just like he manipulated eve, he could of manipulated men. So since now I have given a kj short version story about the devil as a serpent, and eve you know now and the viewers know I have gotten my information and the contradictions found in the christian book KJ or NJK.

I advice you to not bring no other book into this for you will contradict yourself saying well catholic book spoke of eves, story and the devil, and all that also, then you will be saying that there books are similar. For then you will be contradicting yourself heavily on that part. So I truely advice you to stay away from that, You wanted the KJ version to be contradicted then here we go with the contradictions and flaws.

You say it will take a million words to show the christian bible kj or nkj versions have no flaws, or contradictions but yet shown not even 8,000 words to proving that the christian bible is not flaw, nor contradicts itself, and as for me I have shown you verses from your book, using your book, I have shown contradictions. All you want to do is put it all on catholics and muslims etc. When I told you the book I took my information from you still try to put it in another book, and yet as i attack and attack the flaws and contradiction of the christian bible, showing verses from that book but you still go right away to catholic bible, why just like all christians, im sorry albert but just like the typical christian, none of you can look at the flaws, you try to push them to another book, oh my book do not say that but yet this one does when its in black and white writing in your book. None of the christian wants to take the truth and when given them some Good proof you all turn your heads. I know its your guys beliefs, i know, but please when I even show you flaws of KJV and KJ. do not turn your back on them, and put them off on catholics or anyother religion, when its on the christian book. Ill tell you one thing, at least these other religions live up to there bibles, like Iseral, Like afghanistan, at least they live up to there bible, and do as it commands, but as for christians they do not live up to gods commands. like doing what they do best prosecution, of the most minor sentences getting the death penalty. but modern times you fail to do his commands. but yet do not fail to do commands that are good,

Why common logic on why christian religion fails to gods commands if its truely gods commands, not just a hear say, its because you all know deep inside, on the commands that are in your book as i found and posted on links on here and ill post another link leading strictly to christians and there bible, is that there bible Has many Flaws, Many contradictions, Many hate. but you all block that out to only think of the good.

You say you answered all my questions, when they were just statements not questions, see i prove the bible is flaw, you prove the bible is not flaw. you only attack what i say, when I was showing you and even told you the book i get my info from the KJ and NKJV. but you throw other religions under the bus. Without proving how your bible is not flaw.

im shall give you a link, this link is truely about christian bible, nothing else like you asked me to prove the KJ has flaws as well as NKJ both christian books, Albert if i came on to strong, I only did to show a point of the flaws and contradictions of the bible, ironically using only the KJV and NJKV bible. Well now ill give you a link that is all about christian bible, do not pay attention to the website for its not about a evil bible but explains the flaws and contradictions of the christian bible. so do not twist that up. I advice you to read that and defend your position on how the bible is not flaw. I answered all your questions, even the evil one. if you actually took the time to read my arguements you would know that. Heres the Link do not get the website twisted when they say evil bible, its not about a evil created bible, its about the contradictions, and flaws of christianity bible. just like i shown here in my arguements from the KJ and NKJ. Enjoy, I really do wish you good luck in your next round to show how the bible is not flaw. your bible. speaking. the christian bible, the kj and nkj bible. After you see this, im sorry but I didnt want to post this link, but you had to know the truth, of your christian bibles.

http://www.evilbible.com...

before you post your last round please take the time to read this whole website you have two days to post an arguement. Just please read the website, this is the biggest proof of how the christian bible has flaws and contradictions. I believe there is a god but i do not believe in no religion and in no bible. prove to me that the your christian bible has no flaws, and to the viewers, since we both agree on the christian book as the debate progressed, then prove to me on christian bible has no flaws not put it on someone else bible, this website for christian bible. Please read look into the website. before posting your next round. Good luck Albert.
Albert

Con

Ive answering his questions, and using clear points and reasoning, and even basic logic to some of his questions. Most of my early rounds were of 8,000 letters all based around answering his questions.

Take for example his question about God isnt able to forgive Jesus.
I replied "Jesus is a sacrifice, not a murder victim. Jesus did not sin, so why would God need to forgive him?"

It seems Aceviper2011 has questions which he does not want answered, and points to make about 'bible' which he'll change into any god whatsoever so he can officially try and win a debate.

If this is about winning a debate, they I suggest you made more accounts, debate yourself, and vote for yourself. This debate started with questions, points, replies.

But after Round 4 which you said would be "very hard for me to answer", due to you confidence in your questions and points. I replied to every-single-point, using easy to understand logic and reasoning. You couldn't find any fault in my replies, so you decided to change you 'approach.'

This is childish behavior. At the very least, show in your replies your cross checks to -all- of my answers, A,B,C,D,E,1,2 and several comments you made.

---
For readers and Aceviper2011, this is the sole reason i didnt want to debate Aceviper2011 a second time. His attitude changes, and his 'approach' suddenly changes whenever he cannot answer questions. In my last debate he spent his -entire- debate yelling at me that I dont even understand my own debate. And here, he even placed the ground rules for his own debate, and now says I dont understand it, and that he changes it at round 5?

I feel you have alot to learn about debating topics other people give you, as well as understanding any topic you come across. This isnt a personally attack, and ive never resorted to calling anyone such things as you have. Insulting someone to prove your point is correct means nothing.

I think if you look back at my questions and actually want to understand your claims the bible is flawed compared to my -very- easy ability to reply to everyone of your essays, you may understand how lacking your argument really is.

Lastly-
Aceviper2011, if you hate the bible and people who believe in it, then simply say so. Dont make up ideas that it's flawed, only to have someone prove you 'idea' has no actual facts. People in the western world would learn alot of they dug into other religions historical findings, and compared that to the bible - because people of the west hold gold, yet claim it's dirt because of foolish reasons made by haters of the bible with little facts.

If your goal here is to win a debate, then i suggest making another account and voting for yourself is a good idea. If your goal was to learn something, then i suggest you should study what ive said, or if you just wanted to yell at someone again, then im glad i could be of assistance.

Albert.
Debate Round No. 5
85 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
so infectious that it planted the idea in your head
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
aceviper, the reason you believe in a god, is becasue man made religious poison is soectious, that it planted the idea in your head.

I was where you are in thought process 10 yrs ago. I had to shake the poison.

Just as long as you understand that without the childish doctrine of religion, you would have no idea of a god.

Without religion, kids would be taught evolution like ABC's and we would have 2 towers in NYC :)
Posted by Aceviper2011 4 years ago
Aceviper2011
devient.genie i believe in a god also, but i do not believe in mens religions and the holy bible. but i do believe in a god.
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
I believe there is a God and Jesus saved us, but its my own beliefs but i do know god does exist--aceviper 2011 profile

aceviper2011, you would have no understanding of a "god" if it wasnt for the flawed and disgusting nature of the bible or other childish writings from thousands of years ago. Keep that in mind :)
Posted by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
The civil war was over slavery, religion supported and embraced slavery, religion poisons everything, gameover :)
Posted by Aceviper2011 4 years ago
Aceviper2011
how old are you be honest.
Posted by Aceviper2011 4 years ago
Aceviper2011
Your interesting Aceviper2011, but im afraid i dont find it useful having to continue talking to you, since you cannot answer A,B,C,D,E,1,2. You promised me this debate would be different, yet you used the same trick to accuse me of not knowing this debate. Round 5, you showed me your true nature once again.

End.

P.s Still waiting for your reply to A,B,C,D,E,1,2.

P.s albert you still show not proof of showing why the bible is not flaw in the whole debate so start explaining and stop asking.

how old are you.
Posted by Aceviper2011 4 years ago
Aceviper2011
World war 2
In this period of time, as in many others, religious differences led to disharmony among the people of Europe and was one of the causes behind the murder of over six million Jews. In 1933 the Nazi party came to power, and soon after it's arrival in political office it took measures to eliminate Jews. The Nazis began spreading propaganda about the Jews. They were the ethnic group that was used as a scapegoat for Germany's loss of World War I. This was one of the causes of strong anti-Semitism among Germans. First an effort was made by the Nazi Party to take away any economic prosperity. Agencies, banks and business enterprises conspired against any financial success. Later in 1938 all of Germany's synagogues were set on fire. Jewish businesses were destroyed and thousands of Jews were arrested. Many Jews in Austria and Germany fled to other countries, yet many were unable to escape at all. World War II began in 1939 and Poland came under German control. With it came a Jewish Population of nearly 2 Million. Polish Jews were herded into ghettos enclosed by walls and barbed wire. Poverty, disease and malnutrition plagued the area.

In 1941 further measures were taken by Germany. German armies invaded the USSR with orders to kill Soviet Jews. Ultimately, Jews were forced to wear arm bands marked with a yellow star. Thousands were deported to ghettos as well as Soviet cities occupied by German forces. Concentration Camps were created in Poland. Ghettos were emptied and Jews were herded into camps. Belongings and valuables of those deported were confiscated by the Germans.

Auschwitz was the largest and perhaps most infamous of the concentration camps. Many Jews along with some non - Jewish people were forced into industrial labor. Nazis conducted medical experiments and gassed many Jews and Gypsies. Thousands of inmates were shot and many were victims of disease and starvation.

By 1945 millions of Jews and other groups chosen by the Nazi party had been
Posted by Aceviper2011 4 years ago
Aceviper2011
World war 2
In this period of time, as in many others, religious differences led to disharmony among the people of Europe and was one of the causes behind the murder of over six million Jews. In 1933 the Nazi party came to power, and soon after it's arrival in political office it took measures to eliminate Jews. The Nazis began spreading propaganda about the Jews. They were the ethnic group that was used as a scapegoat for Germany's loss of World War I. This was one of the causes of strong anti-Semitism among Germans. First an effort was made by the Nazi Party to take away any economic prosperity. Agencies, banks and business enterprises conspired against any financial success. Later in 1938 all of Germany's synagogues were set on fire. Jewish businesses were destroyed and thousands of Jews were arrested. Many Jews in Austria and Germany fled to other countries, yet many were unable to escape at all. World War II began in 1939 and Poland came under German control. With it came a Jewish Population of nearly 2 Million. Polish Jews were herded into ghettos enclosed by walls and barbed wire. Poverty, disease and malnutrition plagued the area.

In 1941 further measures were taken by Germany. German armies invaded the USSR with orders to kill Soviet Jews. Ultimately, Jews were forced to wear arm bands marked with a yellow star. Thousands were deported to ghettos as well as Soviet cities occupied by German forces. Concentration Camps were created in Poland. Ghettos were emptied and Jews were herded into camps. Belongings and valuables of those deported were confiscated by the Germans.

Auschwitz was the largest and perhaps most infamous of the concentration camps. Many Jews along with some non - Jewish people were forced into industrial labor. Nazis conducted medical experiments and gassed many Jews and Gypsies. Thousands of inmates were shot and many were victims of disease and starvation.

By 1945 millions of Jews and other groups chosen by the Nazi party had been
Posted by Albert 4 years ago
Albert
Your interesting Aceviper2011, but im afraid i dont find it useful having to continue talking to you, since you cannot answer A,B,C,D,E,1,2. You promised me this debate would be different, yet you used the same trick to accuse me of not knowing this debate. Round 5, you showed me your true nature once again.

End.

P.s Still waiting for your reply to A,B,C,D,E,1,2.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by rowsdower 4 years ago
rowsdower
Aceviper2011AlbertTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Con admits in the second round that the bible has flaws. It has false books added by man. Con lost the argument at that point.
Vote Placed by CIIReligion 4 years ago
CIIReligion
Aceviper2011AlbertTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Since CON was on PRO's side from the beginning, how can I vote for CON?
Vote Placed by devient.genie 4 years ago
devient.genie
Aceviper2011AlbertTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Flaws in the bible are like waves in the ocean :)
Vote Placed by tmar19652 4 years ago
tmar19652
Aceviper2011AlbertTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro proved the bible has flaws, its as simple s that.