The Instigator
Finalfan
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
InGodsName
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Bible stories: Myths or History?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/10/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 964 times Debate No: 43739
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

Finalfan

Con

Creation, Fall of Lucifer, Adam and Eve/Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, Jonah/Whale, Job, Jesus/magic! All very debatable! Do you believe that these events took place in our natural history? I like to play the even if game: You know like even if God created everything doesn't meant angels and Lucifer exist, Even if the devil exists that doesn't mean that there was a Garden of Eden: Even if... You get the picture! The odds are not good for my opponent considering the probability of supernatural events being real is worse than winning the lottery while simultaneously being struck by lightning! Plus these events were documented by people who (mostly) weren't even there to witness the experience! Meaning you have to take their word for it and that's not evidence enough to proclaim anything as Truth! But I'm sure I have not solved the box to unleash hell yet so there is still time for us to put this supernatural nonsense in the fiction section where it belongs!
InGodsName

Pro

Peace be upon you
im a Muslim brother and i would like you to kindly state your religion , starting off To be a Muslim you will need to believe in six articles of faith .
1. Belief in one Allah: Muslims believe Allah is one, eternal, creator, and sovereign.
2. Belief in the angels
3. Belief in the prophets: The prophets include the biblical prophets but end with Muhammad as Allah"s final prophet.
4. Belief in the revelations of Allah: Muslims accept certain portions of the Bible, such as the Torah and the Gospels. They believe the Qur'an is the preexistent, perfect word of Allah.
5. Belief in the last day of judgment and the hereafter: Everyone will be resurrected for judgment into either paradise or hell.
6. Belief in predestination: Muslims believe Allah has decreed everything that will happen. Muslims testify to Allah"s sovereignty with their frequent phrase, inshallah, meaning, "if God wills."

I would like you to make the argument more clearer in the next round so will start it
Debate Round No. 1
Finalfan

Con

I will say due to the geographical placement of religions in the world I am fairly ignorant to the Muslim beliefs. Living in Montana does not provide a lot of different cultures so I appreciate you educating me about the Tenants of Islam! I have heard some terrible things come out of the religion of Islam (mostly women and child abuse)! Also I have heard mention that the punishment for apostasy is death! Is this true? Anyways...

My religion.. hmm that's tricky. I consider myself pantheist! Technically it is a form of monotheism. God is everything! Still means there is only one God! I have just defined God differently than most people I have met. But hey.. at least I'm not atheist right.. haha really I am more anti-theist when it comes to religions that segregate instead of unite!

Again I am not very familiar with the Muslim lore but I imagine it is just as unlikely as Noah's ark and the great flood.. So tell me a story from your religious texts that compares to The fall of Lucifer or the Garden of Eden.. Was there a great flood in your history? I was willing to debate any story in the bible. That was the debate. Trust me it will work. I have debated Noah's flood and was surprised to find a plethora of information to, as Richard Dawkins puts it "Crack a small nut with a large hammer"!

This debate is about the occurrence of supernatural events in our natural world. The bible makes sum pretty outrageous leaps. If you want me to believe in something as truth.. you will need some pretty solid evidence. A book written thousands of years ago by several authors that has been the catalyst for some of the worst events in history! This better be true and you better be able to prove it. If not we may need to think about whether religion is a danger to the safety and continuity of the human race! Whew sorry about the harsh rant but tell me I do not have the right to demand evidence!

So to keep this debate going we can have an open ended argument about whether or not religion is valid at all. Or you can tell me a story and I will rip it apart. That is what my mind does best!
InGodsName

Pro

InGodsName forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Finalfan

Con

Finalfan forfeited this round.
InGodsName

Pro

InGodsName forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Finalfan

Con

Finalfan forfeited this round.
InGodsName

Pro

InGodsName forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Finalfan

Con

Finalfan forfeited this round.
InGodsName

Pro

InGodsName forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
@Sagey: Thank you posting the David Silverman Debate! He nailed it!
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
Here is a Great Debate on Reality: David Silverman rocks!

https://www.youtube.com...
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
Did you mean to post those last two statements? Got really confused! I do want to thank you for your insight into pantheism.. very intriguing! Fine you are on to me.. I'm anti-theist.. not necessarily against "God" , just the idea of God! My problem is that Christianity keeps selling a holy benevolent deity! Then you read the bible.. and are completely repulsed by the one Christians (all religions) call lord! To me it is a turd sandwich that they keep telling me is "delicious"! Tell me where to go from here? I was taught growing up to obey God and fear him... huge red flag! What everyone keeps referring to as "God" looks nothing like a loving father. While within this universe even murderers and rapists does not match the malevolence of your king! Btw.. Christians say the words ad homonym way too liberally.. stop it.. its as annoying as yolo and twerking!
Posted by Defender1999 3 years ago
Defender1999
Lots of ad hominem attacks and not much serious case-making. Also misinterpreting my arguments just as funwiththoughts did. The con kept ignoring my rebuttals and asserts that I just ignored his. I have been actually to respond to him, he keeps ignoring I think.
Posted by Defender1999 3 years ago
Defender1999
Miracles aren't pretty outrageous when you think of it. The only reason it's outrageous is because you held to a naturalistic ideology- certainly not so scientific conclusion. If you can prove God's existence, miracles are easy to then explain. Miracles do not violate the laws of nature; these ordinances only describes how things work and operate but don't exclude certain things. When I think of it, miracles are more like addition to the natural laws.
Posted by Defender1999 3 years ago
Defender1999
Finalfan, pantheism is an intellectual suicide. Pantheism says all is God and God is all, are you sure of this? Pantheism cannot object for an objective standard or explain immaterial or abstract concepts like love, courage, fear, determination and feeling. Since pantheism teaches all is one, everything is part of the universe and advocates well near materialistic philosophy. But one cannot observe nor make a contact with laws of logic or ideas- they are abstract concepts and void of material properties. Pantheism says that if God is all and God is all, then that means the universe is God and has properties of God. But the universe isn't eternal (2nd law of thermodynamics), it is materialistic not transcendent and a God is a personal being, the universe is impersonal. According to the cause-effect law, the cause has to be greater than the effect it yields and something that is brought out is a product of another something. It is contradictory to say the universe or nature made itself (nature is part of the cosmos. Pantheism is certainly not a dress I'd like to choose and wear when I go to the philosophy shop.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
HumanS: I like the cut of your jib. Especially when you compared Willy Wonka to God! Awesome Portal reference as well!
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
Sagey: Very interesting. Reminds me of the Salem witch trials. People eating moldy bread and drinking wine. Not much clean water then either. How could they not have been hallucinating! lol
Posted by HumanShores69 3 years ago
HumanShores69
The pro is "In the very first round" running to the :What religion are you?" stance. That doesn't bode well for a starting position. The personal religious choices of the Pro and Con are not in question here. Yet the Pro has already played that card, and in doing so, has forfeit his 1st round without a whimper. In his statement he replies with the standard for a Muslim Man or Women. The Dogmatic position that certain rules"Just are because they are". Regardless of intellect, experience, maturity, or common logic. If this debate was on any other topic, his response would be even less useful. Imagine. Example debate. Does candy taste good or is the cake a lie? The pro then responds....... It doesn't matter, for Thy Willy Wonka says sooo!
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
I like the comment a friend made when looking @ these religious debates, even though I've heard it before I think it appropriate for fueling a possible line of discussion.

According to some leading Neurologists and neuropsychologists, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and even Saul may all be sufferers of Schizotypal Personality Disorder, or possibly even Bipolar Personality Disorders. Though SPD is more probable when examining their lives and supposed teachings.

They all likely had Hallucinations which gave them visions of God and a sense of magical presence/power.
It likely made Jesus believe he could heal people.

The Comment my colleague made was this:
"If we consider people who strongly believe that their Hallucinations are Reality as Seriously Insane, what should we consider those that are devoutly faithful believers that Other People's Hallucinations are the Only Truths??"

:-D~
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