The Instigator
ruefull_tiltheend
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DiscipleJonathan
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Biblical debate on religious traditions in christianity including catholicism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 302 times Debate No: 85160
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
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ruefull_tiltheend

Con

It is my belief that the Bible disclaims any religious traditions both in the new and old testament. I'm open for debate. I will look up any points online since I accidentally left my kjv back home. Note I am not trying to denote anyone's religious view on ignorance and am more than open to any definitive evidence that you grav straight from the biblical scripture. Thank you.
DiscipleJonathan

Pro

Sacred Tradition is the oral teaching of Jesus Christ handed down to his apostles, who in turn handed it down to their disciples (the early Church Fathers), and then to the next generation, and then finally to us. How do we know this? Well, for almost 400 years there was no written New Testament to fall back on. All of the apostles and disciples taught orally for the first 400 years. Yes, you might say, but didn't Paul, Peter, John, Luke, etc., write everything down in their epistles and gospels? Yes, they did, but none of it was widely available to geographically separated disciples and it wasn't part of "The Bible" until the Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage put the 27 books of the New Testament together in 382 AD, 393 AD, and 397 AD. At that time, it took on the mantle of infallible scripture with the Old Testament. Interestingly, Protestants today accept this Catholic "Tradition" of these 27 books of the Bible being divinely inspired. Protestants also accept the Catholic Tradition of meeting on Sunday, rather than the Jewish custom of meeting on Saturday.

2 Thessalonians -Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

1 Corinthians 11:1-2 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.

2 Timothy 1: 13-14 Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Guard this rich trust with the help of the holy Spirit that dwells within us.

2 Timothy 2: 1-2 So you, my child, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

John 20: 30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [his] disciples that are not written in this books
Debate Round No. 1
ruefull_tiltheend

Con

I mean to speak of traditions such as crucifixes, exorsism, having all of these articles of clothing, or any thing human made. Exorcism of course wasn't human made. It says that Jesus gave the power of exorcism to 12 people that's all, maybe the 70 i thought but couldn't find anything online about them being exorcist. Having all these clothes why? Jesus sent 70 without possession to spread his word, so why them have someone ordained in all that stuff when finer examples are in less. Why is there a pope? None on earth is greater that John the Baptist jesus said, and he was nothing compared to the least in heaven. The ten comandments don't need to be hanged on much either. Jesus made following those much simpler and purer with love God and love thy neighbor as yourself. I understand the letters of the new testament and enjoy them. I regard them highly but would rather draw from God in heaven and god in flesh then any of his apostles(though they are chosen). When it comes clear that traditions mentioned in the bible led to more trouble and callousing of the heart than it did to achieve closer distance to the lord. Did Samuel or any of the prophets seem happy about what the Jewish did in the Lord's temple and in the high places while at the same time clinging onto the Lord's traditions and such? The Lord made it clear through them he was very angry. And now a days are we different? I think God would rather us just keep it simple. Read the bible (remain faithful he kept it from corruption) and fellowship with other christians (not to exceed past happy meeting and days of rest and being joyuss of the lord)
DiscipleJonathan

Pro

Your not making sense.. Can you please get yout arguments and facts straight for the next round thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
ruefull_tiltheend

Con

What I mean by traditions being harmful examples are just how Isiah and jeremiah would talk how the Lord told them how he detest a bunch of their traditions(that the Lord gave them), because they would turn their backs and burn their children at the same time they would observe those traditions of tye lord. I think that should make since right? It's an example that is obvious to anyone - that any who wash the outside of the pot without cleaning the inside is wrong or something (I believe something about a pot is in there). Meaning that you can wear what ever holy ornaments you want, you can also give to the poor or declare his name in the streets with music and such, but still if you're soul is unclean you aren't worth anymore just cause you uphold some vain traditions.
Also sampson hair can be seen as a alagory or something. His hair was suppose to represent the strength the Lord gave him right. Just as some believe that if they wear some kind of cross or pray in front of a statue will give them some kind of blessing or special way to talk to god. But sampson was able to break the church's with a different hair style then before; souly because he prayed to the lord. That might not be an attack on tradition but it is a show of how you don't need any blessed items or hair for the Lord to provide your safety and such. There many examples in the old testament to show the Lord is far more than what he had the children of Israel percieve.
Now there are times in the bible where tradition seems important, such as that one book about how after the babylones exodised the jewish; that's when a hundred or so years later they would try and rebuild the temple and their town. That's when some important guy started reading about all the things in the bible and concluded that he needed to bring back the worship as it was before. He leaned hard on the traditions that proved to inspire gods love for him. That could be an example of traditions importance. And there is also the time Solomon was in the temple and it got filled with smoke because he built a temple. But it seems the Lord don't much care about traditions when he threw out all those listed in exodus, numbers, deutoronomy, and leviticus do to how those traditions did not keep the children of Israel from back sliding.

Now I suppose you are speaking from more of a history point and I could understand that. I don't come from a Christian family so I don't go to church, converse with other christians, nor know anything beyond what I've read in the bible. I'm more speaking against praying to mary, having any kind of man made holy figure (statues, big crosses, or the lamp), the pope, snake handling, exorcism (I dont remember any mention other than the 12 who could), and those physical things in Christian churches.
Doesn't it make since that leaning open the holy word, following the spirit, and what ever else is faithful; isn't all of this important to your spirit? Does having a cross around your neck, being dressed fancy as the pope is, or what other traditional things christians have just cloud the true meaning of Goss works?
Lastly it says no idols. That's just simple right there. Why cut a piece of wood into a figure and worship the same thing? That's also in the bible. I believe it's jeremiah. Also Jesus told the apostles nit to worry about making a speech because he will give them the words, which is why I don't feel the need to verify my stuff. I took a lot of meaning from everything I read in the bible from leviticus to the books of jeesus.
DiscipleJonathan

Pro

DiscipleJonathan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by ruefull_tiltheend 1 year ago
ruefull_tiltheend
Well traditions anything you want it to be. Stain glass windows, altars, necklaces, or even observing holidays. No it does only disclaim or detest traditions. The bible teaches a lot more of course. My debate is trying to get to why christian, or even Jewish, religions keep their traditions and idols when God tells the prophets to preach how he detest their back sliding, their harvest holiday thing, and other things like high places. Plus it states that you shouldn't worship the makes of your own hands. Sounds exactly what all those statues and crosses are. My point is that God makes it clear that all the traditions that he made them observe were also what vexed him due to their sinning even while observing his holidays and such. And the new testament is no debate that jeesus focuses on your personal relation with God and yourself rather than prejudging others or observing traditions or laws that made no sense to the spirit. Such as David eating holy bread or the apostles grazing the fields during the Sabbath or something. Also it seems wrong to pray to Mary and use her as an idol. Also holidays are the same as their new moon harvests things since we can celebrate Christmas and Easter and still seen on the same day. No doubt most people don't care about the actually meaning of the holiday.
Posted by ViceRegent 1 year ago
ViceRegent
And define "traditions"?
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
Are you saying the Bible ONLY disclaims religious traditions?
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
What do you mean by "disclaims"?
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