The Instigator
Kyle_Fitta
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
Nobodycares
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Bill Belichick Proved Spy-Gate Wasn't A Big Deal

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Kyle_Fitta
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/5/2012 Category: Sports
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,023 times Debate No: 27825
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

Kyle_Fitta

Pro

Still, to this day, people love to point out the Patriots cheated and that they shouldn't have won three Super Bowls. However, the post-Spy-Gate success of Bill Belichick and his teams has proven that Spy-Gate is arguably the most blown out of proportion story ever.
Nobodycares

Con

I accept this challenge and await my opponents argument.
Debate Round No. 1
Kyle_Fitta

Pro

Thank you for accepting my argument.

Before the first week of the NFL season kicked off in 2007, former assistant coach of the Patriots, and at that time New York Jets head coach, Eric Mangini told the league about Belichick using spy-gate so he wouldn't get an advantage. Beforehand in 2006, Rodger Goodell sent on a memo stating that he wanted teams to stop using spygate because he knew it was going on. Therefore, Belichick wasn't the only one who was doing it. He was the only one that was caught.

Even Jimmy Johnson, a two time Super Bowl winner, admitted to doing it on WEEI. The interviewer asked him if he stole signals; he replied, "Oh in a heartbeat, yeah. Yes I did." They then asked him if he did it by video and he replied, "Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you"re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace." He followed that up by saying, "JJ: That"s what I"m saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimer"s scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that"s how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals."

Since Spy-Gate, the Patriots are 61-17 including playoffs, the best record in the NFL. Let it be also known that the Patriots posted the best single season record ever in 2007 at 16-0, Tom Brady was injured the falling year and Matt Cassel, a 7th rounder out of USC, started every quarter that season except one, and that Tom Brady in 2009 was coming of a career threatening ACL injury that year - which was worst year in the post-spy gate era at 10-7 (including playoffs).
Nobodycares

Con

It is very difficult to claim any event as being "the most blown out of proportion story ever." especially concerning one of league wide corruption. It had been discovered that Bellichick had been recording teams since 2000 and as mentioned by Pro, the Patriots were not the only teams guilty of this offense (no pun intended).

It could be argued, that the overwhelming success of the Patriots in the 2007 season could be attributed to the lack of information on the signals used by the Patriots. During a period where virtually every team was recording and deciphering opposing team"s signals, to conclude which team had the greatest advantage would be difficult if not impossible. Thus, it is very difficult to argue that the achievements of one team, post corruption, would nullify the corruption offenses committed by all other teams. The gravity of this controversy is much larger than one single team.
Debate Round No. 2
Kyle_Fitta

Pro

Whilst I agree with most of what my opponent has said, it is moot to the argument. The argument is about whether spy-gate had a major influence on the Patriot's success and most importantly their Superbowl wins. Their record before spy-gate was 87-39 and post spy-gate, as said previously, is 61-17.

The defense "advantage" from spy-gate: The reason being is because a lot of teams like to adjust at the line after determining the play they believe the defense is going to run. By doing so, the Quarterback yells out code words that the offense only know.....except, of course, when a team had spy-gated. However, to make things less complicated, many teams will run the play as designed regardless of how the defense is looking, mainly to live to see another play, in contrast to having even the slightest of miscommunication that could be way for detrimental to the team. A few teams are slightly less broad than that; what they will do is have two plays called in the huddle. If the Quarterback doesn't like the play, he will shout, "kill, kill, kill", and this will tell his teammates that the first play is dead and they're now running the second play that was called. Only the extremely intelligent Quarterbacks and disciplined and rarely smartly gifted systematic players are able to run a complicated offense, in which a team audibles due to the QB's judgement on the play. And only one in the history of the Patriots spy-gating season had a QB that could call plays from the line of scrimmage and that being Peyton Manning. Nonetheless, a defensive miscue, i.e improperly diagnosing a signal or simply forgetting what it meant, could result in more damage than not knowing the play at all; thus, trying to get an advantage of the defensive side of the ball via spy-gating is extremely risky.

Also, a former coach, Bill Cowher, admitted of cheating; he said this, "There's people in the stands that are sitting there looking at the signal, writing the signal down, and then matching up the 1st and 10 - here was the signal. You go back on 2nd and 10 - here was the signal. You do that for a whole game. You'd go back and match up the defenses with the signal, and you can come up with what the signal was. You don't need a videotape to do what they were talking about doing. And people were doing that - we were doing that. Everybody does that, you're trying to gain a competitive edge. There's nothing wrong with that."

Ultimately, cheating will never be taken out of any game. Teams will always try to get an advantage. Unfortunately for Belichick, he was used as the guinea pig to stop this type of cheating, but that doesn't mean that any way their Super Bowl wins should be tainted, especially considering every team was virtually doing the same thing they were, or their success was based upon cheating.
Nobodycares

Con

Under the topic mentioned in round 3 I find myself in agreement with Pro, there's no reasonable individual that could claim that "Spygate" was the deciding factor in the Patriots's Super-bowl victories. The simple fact that it was being done by most, if not all, NFL teams past and present is highly indicative of an established trend. It would seem that Belichick served as an "example", a very public whipping if you will, to curb future occurrences of such behaviour. Upon accepting this debate I was under the belief that the contention was that Spygate in general, was blown out of proportion and should not have even been a story; since the success of the Patriots was achieved without its use.

I leave the decision up to the voters.
Debate Round No. 3
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2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by socialpinko 4 years ago
socialpinko
Kyle_FittaNobodycaresTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: The concession by Con gives Pro arguments. However, even before that it was looking goof for Pro. Not only have the Patriots' record not visibly diminished since "spygate" but the fact that the practices were widely practiced within the NFL further proved to diminish "spygate" as a "big deal".
Vote Placed by GorefordMaximillion 4 years ago
GorefordMaximillion
Kyle_FittaNobodycaresTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: It's like steroids in way... Is it cheating? Yes. If everyone (or most) competitors use it, is it an unfair advantage? No. So many using it evens the playing field... And it turns into its own competition. You can't complain that someone is cheating, when actually they're just cheating better than you. May the best cheater win lol.