The Instigator
BrandonHyde
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Voodoo1
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Black lives do not matter to #BlackLivesMatter

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
BrandonHyde
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/23/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 481 times Debate No: 93029
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (1)

 

BrandonHyde

Pro

The movement #BLM or #BlackLivesMatter is a political activist movement supposedly for campaigning against the violence towards black people - as well as broader issues like racial profiling and racial inequalities within the justice system (in the US).

I for one do not believe this is true, or if it is then the movement is clearly misguided. Therefore I am for the statement: "Black lives do not matter to #BlackLivesMatter".

ROUNDS:

1st Round: Acceptance and any opening statements con wants to get out of the way

2nd Round: Opening arguments

3rd Round: Rebuttals

4th Round: Closing arguments and statements

I wish con a good debate.
Voodoo1

Con

Hi i'm looking forward to discuss this issue with you

I believe that many people who have lost a family member because of the police need a place where they can meet up and share their stories, when that is said i think BLMs agenda goes well beyond just racial problems but also includes the police using excessive force when operating
Debate Round No. 1
BrandonHyde

Pro

Hey, thank you for deciding to debate this topic with me - I am also looking forward to discussing this with you.

The BLM movement began in 2013 in response to the shooting of the African-American teen Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman (a white-Hispanic). As you have already mentioned the movement itself usually devotes its time protesting against police brutality. Although have you noticed a rather common trend among the BLM movement? Yes that is right. Every case involves a white man (or a white-mixed raced individual) shooting an, always, "innocent" black person - usually a teen. Could it be that white people are inherently racist towards black people? Could it be that white people, cops especially, just hate black teens? No. I sense misinformation - or if not then ignorance.

Let's review the facts.

1) 90% of black murder victims were murdered by someone black, according to crime statistics conducted in 2013. Yet why do we not see #BLM trending on twitter or why do we not see members of the black community protesting about this - when a black person murders a black person. One explanation could be that it simply isn't as politically strong an argument. If they use the narrative that white people, a "privileged" social class, have murdered a "helpless", and "oppressed" social class, black individual then their message of black lives mattering is more strongly reinforced - plus they are able to use the "we're oppressed and need extra privileges" card. My point is if black lives truly mattered to #BLM then why do they seemingly not care that 90% of black murder victims are in fact murdered by blacks themselves - 90%, think about that.

2) 54% of African-American families live with only their mother - therefore fatherless. If black lives mattered to #BLM then they'd be campaigning for families to stick together. It is rather obvious why. The main influences in your life are your parents. So to have one is on its own a bad start for the child(ren) growing up. But in the specific context of African-American families it tends to be more devastating. The father's disappearance can be due to things such as the father being in jail, being in a gang (for gang-culture is a very real and depressing thing), being the kind of individual who sleep with many women - leaving the child to be a "mistake". Now of course this does not go for everybody, and it is mainly in the "dodgy" parts of America - but still, where are #BLM on these kinds of things? Even if the reason for a child(ren) growing up without a father is due to a reason as simple as the parents broke up with each other it can still be a troublesome time for the child. #BLM should be caring about the life that is the child. A promising youngster who may have achieved great things for themself and their community had they not experienced life growing up fatherless, having no personal role-model to look up to (this is partly why disproportionately black men rather than women commit crime, because people tend to look up to the parent they share the same gender with).

3) Not to mention quite simply that a lot of the cases where #BLM protested as a result of the shootings were instances where the shooting of such black individual was justified - cases whereby the black individual posses a threat to the white, usually a cop, individual.

It is my belief that either #BLM are too ignorant to realize that it is blacks themselves that are hurting their livelihood more so than whites. Or, #BLM have an agenda to use their "oppression" points to shame white people, the so-called "privileged" people, with the intention of receiving special treatment by society - the likes of affirmative action and so on.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.politifact.com...
http://www.washingtontimes.com...
Voodoo1

Con

i forfeit i don't have a strong case i and i don't believe in it strongly enough to debate it.
Debate Round No. 2
BrandonHyde

Pro

Alright. Well thank you for accepting the debate.
Voodoo1

Con

no problem you are very good at debating, and i would debate if i actually felt strongly from my side
Debate Round No. 3
BrandonHyde

Pro

Thank you. I understand, tbh I wasn't too clear about what we were going to get into in my introduction/acceptance round. This was my first debate, so I will definitely improve that next time.
Voodoo1

Con

It was also my first debate, but yeah not something i fell strong for so vote pro guys vote pro
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BrandonHyde 11 months ago
BrandonHyde
I'm sorry but you, me or anyone has no right to judge if someone is innocent or guilty, that is simply the court to decide. Is it not possible for the police officers' word being true? You seem to believe that police officers are dishonest and should not be trusted. I can't imagine you know every police officer, but hey I could be wrong... since you seem so confident in suggesting that police officers' word is believed - as if they shouldn't be.

Not only do you have a distrust of our justice system and of our police force but you also have a rather distrust in our government. Now don't get me wrong I distrust our government too but not because of the idea that they might be racist individuals who purposely keep poor (black) communities down. I don't suppose you could prove this? There are many reasons why many black communities are poor, too many to go into. However I stated one of them in my debate. 54% of American black families are fatherless. This has many affects on the children. To list a few 1) it does not allow the child to have a personal role model - which hurts ambition and their understanding of how to go about living in society 2) it causes hardships that could lead to a more violent and criminal lifestyle 3) it makes family life in general harder, especially for the mother who has to work and look after the children - for only one parent is available.

I'm not saying that if BLM truly cared about black lives then they would stop overly reacting when a white person or police officer was the cause of a black person's death. All it does is cause divide between whites and blacks - as white people are harassed, I have been victim to such - and also a divide between blacks and cops - people of which are there to protect you, they should be looked up to so why should they be shunned upon?
Posted by KeyserSoze115 11 months ago
KeyserSoze115
To your point as to how you can prove in a court of law that when a police officer murders someone that it was not in self defense, you can't without crowd of witnesses or video that is why so many murderers go free compounding this distrust between the black community and law enforcement. When it is the cops word against anyone else's the cops word is believed almost every time.
To your point that if BLM truly cared about black lives they would protest the gang members and criminals who are responsible for the majority of homicides in the black community. But to what end? What should they picket in front of the national bloods & crips headquarters shouting stop being criminals. And there actually are marches and rallies that speak out against gun violence and black on black crime they just don't get the same attention from the media.
I do agree with you that the crime in black communities isn't because the communities are black it's because they are poor. But a large part of the reason they are poor is because half of the members in our government specifically target them to keep them that way.
I agree that this is not the only problem effecting the black community and alot more has to be done to help them. But I think most of the focus revolves around the police shootings is because this is the most blatent and egregious example of the states mistreatment of the black community.
Posted by BrandonHyde 11 months ago
BrandonHyde
I think that if BLM want to go against the state, which you claim the movement is more for, then the best way they'd be able to do so is protest against the conditions of poorer and less developed areas and campaign or aiding black people who choose to live reckless lives (taking drugs, stealing, murdering, joining gangs, etc) in order to allow them to be integrated properly into modern Western society - abiding by our civil way of living. Black people need to sort of issues like the inherent gang culture created within black communities and they need to try and keep their families together (and alive) for 54% is too large a figure regarding the amount of black families who live fatherless. These, and more, issues which are embedded within black communities needs to be addressed, more so than a couple of cases which involves individual lives - compared to a high portion of the black demographic in the US. My debate was about priorities, and I believe BLM have them completely wrong.
Posted by BrandonHyde 11 months ago
BrandonHyde
How can you prove, in a court, that a police officer who murdered someone in a manner which is illegal - hence not under self-defence? I don't agree that the justice system is broken. It reveals the inevitable truths of criminal activity within our country. If you distrust it then you show that you're sceptical by all means. With your scepticism how can you trust any data, research or source of any kind?

The BLM movement can do as it pleases, protest at whatever they want to. However the point of my debate was to suggest that if they truly cared about the concept of black lives mattering then they'd look at the factors and the national demographics that affect black lives the most, themselves. Even if you use the argument that they protest against the cases where a black life was taken by a police officer and justice wasn't served you can always argue that if black communities weren't so crime-ridden then the police officer wouldn't need to be there, in the situation pre-murder. Whatever angle you choose to look at blacks have been a factor of their own suffering. While saying this, I do agree that some political pressure and decision making by racist, influential, political individuals are apart of such black suffering in under-developed black communities.

I would like to briefly state this point. Black people living in predominantly white areas - aka the developed and richer parts of the US - are treated as equal to whites, statistically. The only true divide shown by whites and blacks is only and can only be seen when you compare two very different parts of the US, based on varying levels and development and wealth. Which is why I never like to collectively group people together, everyone is their own individual with their own problems (some that contrasts what is suggested by studies that involve collectively grouping people together). Which is why I suggest that black people are not oppressed like many still believe today but instead less developed areas
Posted by KeyserSoze115 11 months ago
KeyserSoze115
When there is a crack epidemic in the inner city the government declares a war on drugs. When there is a heroin epidemic in the suburbs the government declares a public health crisis. When a young white student at Stanford is convicted of rape he is sentenced to 6 months and will only serve 3. A young black man serves more time waiting for a bail hearing. Old racist white men take over political parties whether it be the Dixiecrats of your or the current Republican Party with Donald Trump and push policies like mandatory minimums or voting rights laws that systemically oppresses the black community. They try to defund or repeal any policies they may help even the playing field like affirmative action or food stamps. Prosecutors that are supposed to try and get a conviction routinely act as a defense lawyer in front of the grand jury when the accused murderer is a police officer. When a police officer commits a crime his fellow officers routinely lie for him and help cover up the crime creating the so called blue curtain. We can no longer trust the police to police themselves. We can no longer trust prosecutors with working relationships with the officers in their community to try and get a conviction when one of those officers murders a black civilian. The criminal justice system is broken. It will serve justice to the black criminals that murder black civilians but not the blue criminals murdering black civilians. When justice is not served then as an American it is your constitutional right to protest. When black lives are lost and justice is not served it sends the message that black lives do not matter. That is why they chant #BLACKLIVESMATTER.
Posted by KeyserSoze115 11 months ago
KeyserSoze115
Well I agree with you on one thing. I definitely lack trust in the justice system. I also agree that more black people are killed by black civilians then by police officers. However black lives matter protests the murders of black people by black police officers as well (see Freddie Gray) so it's not so much black vs white but more black vs the state. When you have police officers being paid by your taxes to protect you coming into your communities and harassing, brutalizing, and murdering your people that is something to protest. And like I said before when a black person is murdered by a black civilian more often then not the murderer is brought to justice. However when a black person is murdered by a police officer there is no justice and that is something to protest. And just because the justice system finds someone not guilty it doesn't mean they are innocent. Just look at OJ Simpson. So argue with the justice system is what I intend to do. Black people have been oppressed by the government of the United States of America since the day the were brought over on slave ships. Even after slavery they didn't have equal rights. They were segregated into poor communities and denied the opportunities of a good education and quality jobs which kept them oppressed. And without a good education or a quality job many black men had to turn to crime to provide for their families causing many to end up in prison creating many single mother households and children without a strong father figure growing up in poor ghettos with bad underfunded schools and a serious lack of job opportunities and thus continuing the cycle. This disadvantage from birth compounded by the fact that police disproportionately target black communities with citation quotas to raise money for the department (see Ferguson). Studies show black youth and white youth use drugs at the same rate however black youth are disproportionately charged with drug possession...
Posted by BrandonHyde 11 months ago
BrandonHyde
@KeyserSoze115 the reason why someone who "murders" someone and does not go to prison is because they weren't guilty. A lot of times when a police officer shoots one of those black individuals they are not arrested because it was legitimately in self-defense, you cannot argue with the justice system - and saying that they are racist, and that institutional racism within the justice system exists, is simply a display of a lack of trust in America and the justice system on your part.
Posted by BrandonHyde 11 months ago
BrandonHyde
@KeyserSoze115 Exactly apart of my point. BlackLivesMatter only protest when something so minute happens, deaths that do not tribute to much of the aggregate amount of black deaths. Like I said in my argument 90% of black murder victims are murdered by a black. 90% is a significant amount of deaths and ignoring it shows that the movement does not care. 90% is WAY more than the amount of deaths that the police and non-blacks cause. If BlackLivesMatter truly cared about the factor of black lives then they would be heavily focused on the key demographic that cause black deaths - blacks.
Posted by KeyserSoze115 11 months ago
KeyserSoze115
Black Lives Matter protests when a black person is murdered and no one is held accountable. When a black person murders another black person the murderer goes to prison. When a police officer murders a black person the murderer goes home. When there is no justice for a murdered black life it sends the message that black lives don't matter.
Posted by BrandonHyde 11 months ago
BrandonHyde
I'd be happy to debate this topic again. Emmarie seems like an interesting opponent judging from her history of debates - including one on Affirmative Action.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ubermensch-Tsoa 11 months ago
Ubermensch-Tsoa
BrandonHydeVoodoo1Tied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made the only argument and Con was not able to refute it.