The Instigator
trueseeker
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
TheBossesBosstoeverBoss
Con (against)
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Black people in inner city neighborhood should have no rational fear of the police

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/5/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 377 times Debate No: 95884
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

trueseeker

Pro

The news media has done an excellent job in convincing our society that police are inherently violent and racist and participates in an organized scheme to eliminate black people. As an African American citizen of the United States, I am dismayed how organizations like Black Lives Matter and the media continue to build on this MYTH. I proposed that there is no valid reason statistically or otherwise that would sustain the argument that Black people are facing systematic genocide by our nation's law enforcement agencies. I challenge anyone to give a VALID argument on why I, as a Black man, ought to be generally afraid of the police.
TheBossesBosstoeverBoss

Con

I would like to respectfully disagree with my opponent. I think that the media is not just stirring up fear but reporting on the racial tensions. Not to mention these videos of African Americans show solid proof that people are being shot for being black. And I'm just covering police Shootings. I am not going to go on about "Patting" just because they're black. I have seen videos of African American men who have been searched in a manner that is unacceptable for equality between all races.

Argument found from Time magazine article "black lives matter" and Daily Show's segment on Frisking. Sorry if i'm bad at citation.
Debate Round No. 1
trueseeker

Pro

Thank you for accepting my challenge. The first critical statement that should be addressed is "videos show solid proof that people are being shot for being black". Is this an accurate assessment? I have not seen proof that people are being shot simply for being Black. Was Eric Garner (from Staten Island new York) choked to death simply because he was Black? The video clearly shows that he died as a result of being restrained due to his resisting arrest (http://www.nbcnewyork.com...). Was the cop convicted? - He is currently on desk duty making massive overtime while Eric Garner and his rights are buried six feet under ground. Would Garner have even been in the news if he would have complied with police as we were all raised to do from pre-school age? Was Michael Brown shot simply because he was Black? Brown was arrested after committing an assault in a convenience store. Was he simply a citizen walking down the street minding his own business? What about Freddy Grey, who was arrested for carrying a knife. What happen to those cops in his incident - All acquitted. What about Sandra Bland who was pulled over by police for a MINOR traffic infraction? Did she stay in her car and comply with the requests of the officer? NO! She turned the situation into an escalating conflict (http://highline.huffingtonpost.com...). Black people who obey the law and obey the commands of law enforcement officers are rarely subjected to this type of treatment. Again, it is unreasonable that Black people who are law abiding citizens to fear the police. The argument that cops indiscriminately use Black men for target practice is unsustainable. Am I saying that law abiding Black people are never targets for attacks by police? No. However, consider what happens when a law abiding citizen behaves properly under attack circumstances. These are just some of the many examples of how Black people lost their lives to police when they did not act properly. Instead of talking about how many rights you have, isn't it prudent to first comply and behave properly so that if the arrest was made against procedure, you are at least alive to remedy the situation and possibly receive compensation (without having BLM protest over your dead body).
My opponent stated that it was observed on video how Blacks have been "searched in a manner that is unacceptable". If one knows that it is possible to seek remedy if they were treated unfairly, why resist and risk being shot by police. My opponent is now in the difficult situation to show (hopefully by a preponderance of the evidence) that a Black person behaving reasonably in society should have a rational fear of being hurt by the police. The only way this premise could be sustainable is that the majority of Black people in the inner city do not behave reasonably and lawfully. If my opponent believes that this is the case, then my opponent does not know the Black community.
TheBossesBosstoeverBoss

Con

I am glad that we can have a discussion on this reasonable topic. I particularly like how we are going to be focusing on the Law abiding African Americans. I would however like to bring up some political evidence for this part. When republican Canaanite Donald J Trump (who I hate for being racist) said that coin caprinick should "Leave this country" because he took a knee during the national anthem. Also the fact that fans who disliked his kneeling of the national anthem would burn his jersey and post a video of it. There was even a few posts on twitter suggesting that Caprinick should be shot. This is clear evidence that people have such a fear of African Americans that they would arrest and search them more often.

Another point I would like to bring up is a lack of trials from the officers who killed these people. I have not herd of any trials in the news. The Case is either that i don't listen to enough news (And I watch and listen to a lot) Or that the police aren't taking the responsibility for their actions and biases. I hope this was helpful to understanding my point.
Debate Round No. 2
trueseeker

Pro

My opponent brings out very good points that I do not disagree with. It is clear that many Black people have been treated unfairly as they go about their business. However, the argument at hand is whether or not this unfair treatment by law enforcement translates into real harm for the law abiding citizen. I maintain that law abiding Blacks should never have a fear of being killed by the police (even though they may be treated unfairly at times; stop and frisk was a perfect example).
Specific cases: Remember James Blake. James was the professional tennis player who was in New York for the U.S. Open. He was misidentified as a perp and was viciously tackled by NYPD officers. When was his funeral? The answer is there was no funeral because James Blake was not killed. Upon being tackled, instead of fighting with the officers and talking about all the rights he had (and he did have rights), he did the smart thing. He complied with the commands of the police and was not injured. Blake said that he listened and did everything the cops told him to do (www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/us/tennis-james-blake). Why is Blake alive (and now very rich), while others like Garner, Bland and Grey are not. The difference is that he behaved properly and did not pose a threat to police. The majority of Black people in inner-city neighborhoods are proper behaving law abiding citizens. Why would they fear a violent confrontation with police? They should not fear because a confrontation with a law abiding citizen posing no threat to police hardly ever ends in death to either party. Remember Charles Kinsey, he was the Black social worker who was shot by police as he sat in the street trying to calm an autistic man. Although Kinsey posed no threat, he was still shot while on the ground with his hands up. Kinsey had every right to scream about being violated; however' Kinsey is alive today simply because he did not escalate the problem. He was behaving like a law abiding citizen who understood that there is a remedy for the outrageous conduct of the police in this case (http://abcnews.go.com...). Suffice it to say, Kinsey is not only alive, but very rich from the law suits he easily won). I restate, Black people (myself included) should not succumb to the rhetoric of groups like BLM which falsely indicates that all black people are in danger of being killed by police simply because of the color of their skin. This premise is clearly unsustainable.
TheBossesBosstoeverBoss

Con

At this moment I would like to thank my opponent for putting up such an interesting debate. However I would like to make the argument that if an African american wants to express his rights to the second amendment, and he is stopped and Frisked, he is more likely to go to jail than if a white person had a gun. The African american person can't say to the officer "Don't worry, I'm not going to shoot anybody, this is just to express my right to bear arms". The police would never believe this person, unless he was white. Furthermore I would like to bring up the issue of Donald Trump once again. He has constantly refereed to the African american community as "The Blacks" which has a negative connotation of being violent idiots. He has said that they're killing each other and that they literally live in hell. Not to mention, Donald Trump was sued multiple times for not renting apartments to African Americans and has discriminated against black people in his career. If people are actually willing to nominate a man that has had such a huge pattern of racism towards African Americans shows that our society has moved in such a racist direction.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by BackCommander 7 months ago
BackCommander
Yes, they do. Police rarely even end up in court even when the situation involves them using more force than was necessary or even when it involves them firing their weapon at a civilian. Punishment is almost completely internal for them and most policy dictates they delete records of their misconduct after they've been "punished" for it so that it they can't be judged for it later. It also tends to be pretty easy for them to resign and then move to get a job at a different department, which makes it hard for this internal punishment to mean anything.

A cop can pull out their gun and fire rounds off in any direction, and there will be a month long investigation into why they did that and whether or not they should have. The cop will still work this entire time and by the end of it will be suspended for a week or two, only to be back on the street as if nothing happened at the end of that suspension. In what way do they not have the legal right to use their gun whenever they want?
Posted by civiero 7 months ago
civiero
"the legal right to use it whenever they want."

*In theory,* they don't...
Posted by BackCommander 7 months ago
BackCommander
"living anywhere" not sure how that sentence became so muddled while I was typing it.
Posted by BackCommander 7 months ago
BackCommander
People of any race, living in any are, should have a rational fear of the police. They're human just like you are, they just have a gun and the legal right to use it whenever they want.
Posted by civiero 7 months ago
civiero
Topic: "Black people in inner city neighborhood should have no rational fear of the police."

In your intro: "I proposed that there is no valid reason statistically or otherwise that would sustain the argument that Black people are facing systematic genocide by our nation's law enforcement agencies."

Looks like a bait-and-switch. These are pretty *fundamentally* different positions. Blacks could still have rational fears in the absence of a "systematic genocide."
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