The Instigator
He-man
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
Ragnar_Rahl
Con (against)
Winning
54 Points

Blacks Experience Racism Everyday

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/1/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,298 times Debate No: 1220
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (22)

 

He-man

Pro

The black man can't go anywhere without experiencing racism. Racism is everywhere. He experiences racism from his own as well as others. If he goes to the store, then he is watched until he gets to the counter to pay for his items. If he speaks intelligently and clearly, then he is considered as trying to be white.
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

Regarding other blacks as "his own" is a very racist statement of yours.

Some blacks might experience racism every day, but you have no grounds for saying all blacks do, or that there is nowhere without racism to be experienced. For one thing, I'm sure there are a few black recluses. Recluses don't experience racism, or anything else, unless they themselves create it. And in those few pockets of individualism that remain in the world, racism is an utter impossibility (without collectivism, there can be no racism).

What about ethnically homogenous communities? It's kind of hard to find racism there, at least the kind you experience, it would get too annoying to the racist :D.

You might consider a black man speaking intelligently as "trying to be white." I don't, and frankly I don't know anyone who does.

Oh and you're also forgetting any albino blacks or blacks light skinned enough to "pass." Since people don't know they're black, they can't be racist about it.
Debate Round No. 1
He-man

Pro

Sir,
Why discuss recluses if they add no value to the subject or hope for the future implementation of a solution. Are you suggesting that we become like recluses or are you basing your whole argument on a recluse. Have you ever met a black recluse. Tell me about them. WHat is your source. Continue to use your loftiness in your word usage to dig a deeper hole for yourself.

It is evident that you have not experienced this sort of racism based on premature statement. You made a mistake in this debate by making this personal and making it as though I believe this way. I am merely stating a resolution. I personally do not hold the belief that I am arguing. Evidently you have a chip on your shoulder that you need to brush off so you can think clearly and respond tactfully.

Have you ever been stared at when you entered a store and watched until you left. Have you ever been somewhere in this day and age and told to leave because blacks were not allowed. Have you ever been told by someone you love deeply of another race that since you are black you will have it lot harder than me. Have you ever been treated like you are treating me as though I believe blacks feel like "america owes us something". Damn right I do and it's more than money can pay for. I feel like we are owed "OPPORTUNITY." Since it is not always given I have learned to TAKE MINE. SIR Ebonically speaking, my motto is you don't have to give me nothing, just open up the door and I will get it myself. I create my opportunity. From the looks of your profile you are from Seattle. You are more than likely open minded. However, come to the South. Change it by the recluse argumentation and hommogenous communities.

Have you ever lived in an ethnically homogeneous society. I consider a black man speaking intelligently as speaking properly. You come across as a person that innately feels that an anglo saxon always speaks proper english.

If it will help you to focus more on the issues at hand and not the man saying it, you would benefit from this conversation. My children are half white and half black. I teach them to speak properly. I teach them to present themselves to others as scholarly but yet try to understand a situation before making an errenous inference. For all you know sir. I could be white. However, I am a black man.

I would rather be considered a fool rather than open my mouth and remove all doubt.
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

Recluses were one example, not my whole argument. I was using a recluse to warn against exaggerations. I have not met such a one, that would rather make them unlikely to be a recluse, but recluses do exist and it would be racist to assume that none of them is black :D.

I have, as a matter of fact, experienced racism, regardless of your assumptions (yes, racism against me even) although it's by far of course the least of my concerns :D.

It's generally a fair assumption that someone believes something if they say it, and I am not to blame if you decided to state something you do not believe (which except in very specific circumstances, none of which come about on debate.org that I can think of, I condemn as dishonesty.

I have as a matter of fact been stared at as I entered a store and watched until I left, though that of course had nothing to do with race. I have not been told to leave somewhere because blacks were not allowed, for obvious reasons, although I have for other reasons. Have you, and have you any evidence of it, and is it an EVERY DAY occurrence?

You say at once "Have you ever been treated like you are treating me as though I believe blacks feel like 'america owes us something'" and "damn right I do," which makes zero sense, you are implying that me treating you like I supposedly am is wrong while in the same instance confirming the supposed premises upon which those actions rest. You are in short bringing up two contradictory statements, because so far the only way I have "treated you" has been based on the premise that I was dealing with someone who honestly believed X.

However since you bring up "owing," I must absolutely differ there, nobody owes you anything unless they have promised it, and that includes "oppurtunity." The possessors (creators) of oppurtunities are not your slaves. You want an "oppurtunity," be it a job or something else, from someone else, earn it in the free market. If you create your own oppurtunity as you later claim, then you have no need to claim something is "owed" you, "owe" is an inappropriate term for something that requires no outside action. It is dishonest to make a request and claim in the same paragraph you are not requesting anything. There is by the way another contradiction, you claim to "create oppurtunity" and "take oppurtunity," without it being given. The former is great if true, the latter implies theft.

I live in Seattle, I am originally from South Dakota, and no I am not "open minded," at least not in the literal sense. I am active minded, the result of which means I don't give a damn what race you are.

It is irrelevant to the question of whether an ethnically homogenous community exists to ask me whether I have ever lived in such a place.

"I consider a black man speaking intelligently as speaking properly. You come across as a person that innately feels that an anglo saxon always speaks proper english."

no, as a matter of fact, you have no grounds to derive that. I consider a man speaking properly as speaking properly, without reference to any notions of either intelligence or race ( I know smart people with bad grammar, stupid people with good grammar, black and white people with both combinations and the converse.) And 95% of people I know, of all races, could use a little help in both the grammar and intelligence departments... as a matter of fact I've corrected my english teacher's grammar before (he is,as far as I know, white) so your statement about what I come across as is a bit absurd.

Nothing in my previous post, by the way, implied you were any race (it called you racist but that's different :D), so your little personal story is a complete ignoratio elenchi. If you want to be considered black for the remainder of this debate, I'll take your word for it, but it's inconsequential.
Debate Round No. 2
He-man

Pro

He-man forfeited this round.
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

Forfeits are the most terrible things ever, eleventy-one.
Forfeits are the most terrible things ever, eleventy-one.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by rshortman 9 years ago
rshortman
If you think the non-minorities of this country are racist you should take a look at some of your own advocates:

Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton

These men are the WORST. They took what the good Dr. King said decades ago, warped it, twisted it and spit it back out for manipulation of the masses. Cowards generally operate this way, they take a smidgen of the truth and fill the rest in with their own BS. They actually want the black communities of America to feel victimized and it's not hard to see why. Their entire careers have been built on the victimization of blacks. Not only do they have the power of a cult following but they are profiting immensely from it. They do the blacks of America a terrible diservice by implicating that they are not smart enough or strong enough to pull themselves out of the vicious cycle of disparity. They disempower their people and for selfish reasons at that.

If you ask me, our blacks can do better than that. They should feel outraged! Stop listening to these self-serving criminals who manipulate people by giving them a reason to believe they shouldn't feel responsible or accountable for anything bad that happens in their lives. They want you to feel entitled for what you haven't earned, they want you to hate your country and your fellow man and they want you to ignore all the progress this country has made. Call them the 'voice' of the African American community, call them the 'Champion against racism' the 'Advocate of secular progressiveness' or the 'Heroes of Affirmative Action'. Just remember these men want you to be and STAY victims and they don't and never will have your best interests in mind.
Posted by U.S_Patriot 9 years ago
U.S_Patriot
Racism is a term thrown around way too much. I want all who read this statement to know, that you are no longer victims. There are laws that while I may or may not agree with them, put you in a position of power instead of victimhood. Honestly, every time something bad happens to you, you cry racism. The recent Michael Vick case is one example.

Whites experience racism everyday. No one does anything. Yet we should give everything to stop the racist menace that plagues blacks. =/
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
So you obviously buy the DEMOCRAP LIES , lock stock and barrel

The only RACISM against blacks is reserved by DEMOCRATS, the PARTY OF SLAVERY, for blacks that STRAY OFF THE DEMOCRAP PLANTATION

like Clarence Thomas

and Condi Rice

and other consveratives

As soon as the black community wakes up and realize they have been had by their slavemasters, the DEMOCRAP lies are OVER
Posted by Deffender 9 years ago
Deffender
In Response to WhipLash: The assumption that racism is not longer "a real movement" is quite saddening to me. Racism is very much alive and well moving as an organized force but it is no longer the overt racism of the KKK or their ilk.

I grew up in a white suburb of Indianapolis. I can say that it was white and still mostly is. I am not a racist, I just have eyes. This is symptomatic of a larger unspoken agreement that many whites hold. They believe they will be safer "among their own kind." This kind of "solid reasoning" is based on false information about crime and re-enforced through media outlets and television.

Many "covert" racists look at their views as being related to crime, education, economic status, and family values. These "covert" racists are then protected by the shield of "truth" about what ill's would befall them if they treated "Non-White" the same way they treat "their own kind."

Frankly, I am not white. White is NOT a race. I am A Scottsman I know my line and I know my clan. To call me "White" is to use color to classify me. That is covert racism.

The fact that this entire debate was conducted in terms of "White VS. Non-White" is both slightly funny and very ignorant of the two parties.

If we do not stop using the language of racism, we only continue it through our own actions.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Collectivism isn't quite slavery as such I'm afraid, although nice sentiment. Collectivism just leads to slavery when it's in the head of a politician. Several institutions can be classified as "collectivist" (i.e. most labor unions for example) without actually being institutions of slavery, they simply have lesser negative consequences.
Posted by SirJDKnightCroix 9 years ago
SirJDKnightCroix
Racism is collectivism in its most putrid form.

Collectivism is Slavery.
Posted by Whiplash 9 years ago
Whiplash
Racism as a real movement is essentially gone in all except a few communities. Like coolman said, stereotyping is the only concept that really affects blacks on a regular basis. This is primarily because when they see a black person walking down the street with his pants at his kneecaps, wearing chains and a grill, and yelling the "n word" at the top of his lungs, they expect him to be part of a gang, or to be selling drugs, or to steal. It is unfortunate that such a large stereotype has been cast by such a small portion of the black community, but it has.

The issue lies in the fact that many black people are under the delusion that because a bad thing happens to them, racism is to blame. Even worse is that some blacks believe they have the right to punish their white neighbors because of the actions of their ancestors. (Again I speak of the minority)
Posted by FiredUpRepublican 9 years ago
FiredUpRepublican
The starter of this debate is showing himself to be a little racist himself. I have seen no evidence of Racism anywhere where I live, but I turn on a tv and Al Sharpton is demeaning white people for a reason that has no validation. Not to mention the fact that i live in Virginia and a group of blacks here are petitioning to get money for Slavery that occured 200 years ago! How is that acceptable? I have never owned, nor do I support, Slaves. I am sick and tired of the rap music demeaning my race and how anything a white person says is twisted to be racist. It is perfectly fine for a black man to walk up to a white man in public and riddicule his looks, speech, family, etc. But if a white man does it to a black man it is racist? It is double standard. Oh man I wish I would have accepted this debate, I could go on for days.
Posted by coolman 9 years ago
coolman
Also, you say that a black man who speaks intelligently and clearly, he is accused of trying to be white. BY WHO? My guess would be the 'lesser-intelligent' black people, who are racist against whites and don't like fellow blacks 'trying to act like them.' I have NEVER heard of a white person discriminate against a black for 'acting white.' The way I look at it, the clean, intelligent, clearly speaking black person is simply defying the gangster stereotype that sadly, so many blacks place on their race. Racism is hating a person simply because of the color of their skin, regardless of their actions and behavior. When people discriminate against people who act like thugs, whether they are black or otherwise, that has more to do with cultural differences than race.
Posted by coolman 9 years ago
coolman
I almost wanted to take this debate as well, but I decided not too because I somewhat agree with your general statement. However, I would argue that the black man is just as, if not more, responsible for the racism he encounters. Racism will not go away until people let it go away. And I'm not saying that EVERY black man is guilty of this, but MANY are (to say 'every' would be racism). Too many times I've seen a black man play the racism card when things don't go exactly the way they want, even if their problem has absolutely NOTHING to do with race. When they do this, THEY are keeping the racism alive by using it as leverage in their defense. By no means am I saying that all non-blacks are innocent, but they can't carry all the blame.
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