The Instigator
MassDebator255
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
thett3
Con (against)
Winning
50 Points

Blacks" have not contributed to the world or society.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 10 votes the winner is...
thett3
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/7/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 16,608 times Debate No: 18212
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (40)
Votes (10)

 

MassDebator255

Pro

First I would just like to state for the record that I am not a racist. I am a realist. I do not think that "black" people have made any significant contributions to the world or society. I have no problem with the color of peoples skin, therefore am not racist. I do however, have problems with the way certain people act in society, and it got me to wondering whether black people have made any real significant contributions to society and the world. I can find almost nothing significant that they have contributed. Every other race has at least one if not more significant contributions to the world and society. By significant, I mean something that if it did not exist, the world would have been worse off. I am willing to accept that since the creation of the USA, there may have been some significant black figures, but my response would be that they would not have been able to do any of the things they did were it not for white people(or another race other than their own). So id like to focus more on individuals who have contributed to the good of mankind within their own cultural structures. Can you name a black philosopher before the creation of the USA? A mathematician? A poet or writer? What about inventions? What about ideas? I can name several just off the top of my head from all other major races. White Europeans were responsible for the current form of government. Republics, democracy. The senate. White Europeans invented the modern sewer system, modern warfare, the modern form of concrete still used today. And so many other things. The Spanish invented most current ways of navigation. The Chinese have contributed by way of martial arts and gun powder. What about science? Galileo, Pythagoras, Socrates,Plato, Diogenes, Cortes(for the Spanish).Confucius for the Chinese. Mark twain, Edgar Allen Poe, Emily Bronte, Leo Tolstoy for writers. the list goes on and on. So if you think you are up for the challenge, than join this debate, and let the good times roll. This round is merely for acceptance and any preliminary statements. Not for actual debating, which should take place fully in round 2. Thank you.
thett3

Con

Thanks for the topic. My opponent is absolutely incorrect in his argument that blacks have not helped society.

My Opponent defines "significant" as " something that if it did not exist, the world would have been worse off"; I accept this definition.

I will answer my opponents questions first, than present my argumnt of how blacks have contributd to U.S. society and the world as a whole.

"Can you name a black philosopher before the creation of the USA?" -Certainly. My Opponent has failed to define black, so I will define a black as a person with African ancestry. Here is a significant black philopshoper, Plotinus[1]. He was the creator of the intellectual school of neoplatonism. More information can be found under the article "African philosophers"[2].

" A mathematician?" Yes. Elbert Frank Cox and Dudley Weldon Woodard[3].

" A poet or writer?" Ralph Ellison.

" What about inventions?" Rice cultivation, Rap and Jazz music.

" What about ideas?" Martin Luther King's radical idea of equality.


Also, blacks have enourmously impacted the United States. Without African slavery, the tabacco industry would likely not have been as profitable (African slaves were cheaper over time than white indentured servants[4]), leading to the foundation of the United States being built better. While it is a short argument, it is an effective one. Slaves contributed fundamentally to the U.S.

Vote Con.


1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://www.math.upenn.edu...
4. The American Pageant, page 67.
Debate Round No. 1
MassDebator255

Pro

First I would just like to state for the record that I am not a racist. I am a realist. I do not think that "black" people have made any significant contributions to the world or society. I have no problem with the color of peoples skin, therefore am not racist. I do however, have problems with the way certain people act in society, and it got me to wondering whether black people have made any real significant contributions to society and the world. I can find almost nothing significant that they have contributed. Every other race has at least one if not more significant contributions to the world and society. By significant, I mean something that if it did not exist, the world would have been worse off. I am willing to accept that since the creation of the USA, there may have been some significant black figures, but my response would be that they would not have been able to do any of the things they did were it not for white people(or another race other than their own). So id like to focus more on individuals who have contributed to the good of mankind within their own cultural structures. Can you name a black philosopher before the creation of the USA? A mathematician? A poet or writer? What about inventions? What about ideas? I can name several just off the top of my head from all other major races. White Europeans were responsible for the current form of government. Republics, democracy. The senate. White Europeans invented the modern sewer system, modern warfare, the modern form of concrete still used today. And so many other things. The Spanish invented most current ways of navigation. The Chinese have contributed by way of martial arts and gun powder. What about science? Galileo, Pythagoras, Socrates,Plato, Diogenes, Cortes(for the Spanish).Confucius for the Chinese. Mark twain, Edgar Allen Poe, Emily Bronte, Leo Tolstoy for writers. the list goes on and on. So if you think you are up for the challenge, than join this debate, and let the good times roll. This round is merely for acceptance and any preliminary statements. Not for actual debating, which should take place fully in round 2. Thank you.
thett3

Con

My Opponent has just reposted his first argument. Please vote con.
Debate Round No. 2
MassDebator255

Pro

First I would just like to state that the only reason I "reposted" my original argument in round 2 was because of a technical error by this website. I had tried to post a new rebuttal but the website for some reason only posted my original assertion. I contacted customer support, but have not heard anything from them. I apologize either way for this error, though I did try to post my rebuttal on the comments section. Second, I would like voters to see that my opponent did not utilize my "error" by pre-empting any statements that I would likely make or correct any errors he has made. I think this should qualify as a draw for round 2 and should not be held against either of us.

My opponent, in round 1 has agreed to my definition of what "significant" is. But according to that definition, he has not provided any instances of SIGNIFICANT contributions made to the world by the black race. On the other hand what he has posted, I will refute:

PLOTINUS: "Here is a significant black philosopher, Plotinus[1]. He was the creator of the intellectual school of neoplatonism. More information can be found under the article "African philosophers"[2]."

If anyone was to look up PLOTINUS on Google, they will see that he WAS NOT BLACK. He was born of ROMAN parents, in Egypt. Because he was born in Egypt, did not make him BLACK. All you must do is do a Google image search, and you will see this is clear. My opponent has made a grave error in his zeal to find a significant contribution made by the black community. The pictures of the man make this clear that he was of middle eastern descent, not African descent(http://www.nndb.com...). His facial characteristics are clearly ROMAN. Or in other words, he has WHITE features. This should automatically disqualify him for a vote.

NEXT: My opponent has come up with a few other people who have made contributions, but has failed to follow the criteria set in my opening statement in round 1. For those who don't remember here it is again. " I am willing to accept that since the creation of the USA, there may have been some significant black figures, but my response would be that they would not have been able to do any of the things they did were it not for white people(or another race other than their own). So id like to focus more on individuals who have contributed to the good of mankind within their own cultural structures. "
One may argue that all inventions and contributions were built off of other inventions and contributions, but my argument is that those "build offs" came from within the same culture. Romans built off other Romans. Europeans built off of other Europeans. But black Americans built off of white Americans. So my question is have they contributed anything significant, that wasn't being done anywhere else in the world, that has also drastically improved or bettered the world and mankind. The answer is an unequivocal NO.

RICE CULTIVATION: " What about inventions?" Rice cultivation, Rap and Jazz music"
This is my opponents rebuttal.
RICE: "The commonly accepted view is that rice was first domesticated in the region of the Yangtze River valley in China" So we see, rice cultivation was not an African invention, rice cultivation already existed in china, thousands of years before Africans were utilizing the technique. So what is my opponent trying to say? Where is the contribution?
RAP: Realistically, Rap, believe it or not was pretty much invented by Bob Dylan. He created the 'talking' song. Don't believe me? Try listening to his 'Subterranean Homesick Blues,' or his "Talking World War III Blues.' The origin of Rap and jazz music is another "building" from anothers contribution. And it is moot since he is using something that occurred within the united states.

Finally, my opponent uses black slavery as a significant contribution. (even though it doesn't count since it doesn't follow the structure of the debate, but even if it did...) Have you ever heard the saying, necessity is the mother of all inventions? Well, since we had slaves to do the manual work, there was no necessity for white slave owners to invent something that would make it easier to cultivate crops. Were they not to have slaves, there would have been a necessity and would have had incentive to come up with a solution faster. I mean honestly, if slavery is a contribution, than we need to celebrate horses and oxen in the same way, because as far as labor go, they have contributed since the beginning of time. Maybe from now on we should start celebrating Horse history month in February, if that is the only key contribution that blacks have made.

So I think my point has been made decisively, despite my error in round 2. Obviously my opponent has nothing to contribute to this debate, otherwise he would have saw his opportunity to improve his argument without a direct rebuttal from me in round 2. Given the fact that my opponent has not followed the structure of this debate, id reccomend to any voters a vote for pro.

VOTE PRO
thett3

Con

Thanks massdebator.

My opponents objections regarding the skin color of Plotinus is fallacious. My Opponent makes baseless claims about the ancestry of Plotinus, however recall in my first round that I linked the Wikipedia article on him. A quote from the article can be seen as follows: " It is the same root that gave rise to Aristotle's Lyceum (place of the wolf) (Greek: Λύκος) in Egypt, which has led to speculations that he may have been a native Egyptian of Roman,[3] Greek,[4] or Hellenized Egyptian[5] descent." The ancestry of this man is unclear, but he was born in Africa, thus making him African. So extend this example.

Furthermore, the "African Philosophy" article has been dropped and can extend across the flow (or across the..whatever it is online). Here's another example of an African philosopher named in that article, Anton Wihelm Amo[1], who made significant contributions to philosophy, particularly materialism.

My Opponents claim that all African success was "built off of white people" is absolutely unfounded. There is no warrant or evidence provided for this.

My Opponent has refuted my rice cultivation example. My mistake.

Pro has dropped the contributions from blacks into jazz, extend it. It may be objected that this doesn't follow the framework of the debate as it happened after the founding of the USA, however jazz was built partially from traditional African music[2], so I win on this point.

Pro argues that Rap was not invented by blacks, however it was. "Rapping can be traced back to its African roots. Centuries before hip hop music existed, the griots of West Africa were delivering stories rhythmically, over drums and sparse instrumentation. Such connections have been acknowledged by many modern artists, modern day "griots", spoken word artists, mainstream news sources, and academics"[3]

Now, pro argues that my slavery example does not meet the framework of the debate, however anybody with even a rudimentary knowledge of history knows that African slavery existed in the Americas prior to the founding of the United States. He argues ", necessity is the mother of all inventions", while this is actually a decent response, he doesn't explain exactly what would've been invented without slaves, IE no trade off argument. In this round no alternative has been introduced, so you must default to mine.

Pro argues " I mean honestly, if slavery is a contribution, than we need to celebrate horses and oxen in the same way, because as far as labor go, they have contributed since the beginning of time." This makes no sense, only a fool would deny that horses and Oxen have helped the human race. Slavery meets my opponents framework and definitions to qualify as a positive contributation.

Pro drops my logic on the slavery point, therefore conceding to it.



The resolution is negated. My Opponent only managed to refute a single argument of mine, leaving the rest standing. Vote Con.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
40 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by LoveItForward 3 months ago
LoveItForward
Pro, I can see why you would argue from the perspective you do. A lot of the publications easily accessible are/were published by those who seek to cast Africans in the way you see them. Upon further research you will see that your argument is weak and based on very little research. Just because one race was doing something at a time when Africans were, doesn't mean they do not get credit. There are sites in Egypt and Kenya that shows observatories and calendars that predates and shows no influence from Europeans. Europeans were introduced to hygiene, fashion and educational systems by the Moors (you may choose to say they weren't black but understand that the original Moors and many of those in Spain were black). GW Carver's creation of peanut butter and technique for how to rotate crops is not based on Whites giving him the opportunity, understand that black Africans were doing this with rice. If we agree that rice was first domesticated in Asia, also know that all research show that this did not influence the domestication in Africa, in fact, the rice cultivation there is seen as more advanced than in Asia. There is also governance; yes. R.S Rattray through his research stated that the Ashantis had a system of governance far closer to the democratic ideal than the British. There are a lot more contributions I could point to but there is enough writing capacity. In order to find the contributions of Africans and especially from the regions where blacks are associated with today, you have to be willing to do serious research including traveling to some of these regions. If you don't believe blacks have contributed anything significant to the world at large, then you might not count your and the rest of the human race's existence as being anything meaningful. As a previous commenter stated, we are all Africans, originating from a black Eve.
Posted by Mark1fast 8 months ago
Mark1fast
Just to follow up with my last comment, blacks are the origin of civilization. The achievements of all people of all nations is a by-product of the origin which comes from Africa. So technically blacks have contributed to everything that the world enjoys today.

What you should be looking at is that we are all connected. The color "black" that is being referred to in this debate is based off of the amount of Melanin in an individuals skin. All races have melanin in their skin. We all have the same amount of cells that create melanin, but some peoples cells actually create more melanin than others. The fact that we group people by the amount of melanin in their skin (races) seems primitive and irrational. We are all one race the human race and we all have contributed to this world.

"We are not makers of history. We are made by history" MLK Jr.
Posted by Mark1fast 8 months ago
Mark1fast
Lucy is the worlds oldest human remains found in Ethiopia. Her bones date back 3.2 million years. Scientists who compared the skulls and DNA of human remains from around the world say their results point to modern humans (Homo sapiens) having a single origin in Africa. The study didn't find any evidence to suggest that human species living elsewhere in the world contributed to our direct ancestors' make-up.
A team led by Andrea Manica at the University of Cambridge, England, combined analysis of global genetic variations with comparisons of more than 6,000 skulls from more than a hundred ancient human populations.
The team found that loss of genetic diversity was very closely mirrored by reduced physical variation the farther away people lived from Africa. (Explore our human roots.)
Only Out of Africa
The new data support the single origin, or "out of Africa" theory for anatomically modern humans, which says that these early humans colonized the planet after spreading out of the continent some 50,000 years ago.
In the past, experts have also argued a "multiregional" theory, which held that Homo sapiens arose from different human populations in different areas of the world.
"The origin of anatomically modern humans has been the focus of much-heated debate," lead author Manica said.
"We have combined our genetic data with new measurements of a large sample of skulls to show definitively that modern humans originated from a single area."
Previous studies have found that genetic differences in human populations can be explained by distance from Africa.
The new study also looked at 37 measurements from male and female skulls from around the world. The chosen skulls were all less than 2,000 years old, making them better preserved and more likely to give accurate measurements than older skulls.

Source: http://news.nationalgeographic.com...
Posted by wilifish4774 4 years ago
wilifish4774
The real debate is,, "What effects will the combining of the gene pools of the black and the white race have on the ultimate survival of this spawn of humanity though space and time..
Posted by wilifish4774 4 years ago
wilifish4774
Obviously for better or for worse, the black race is undisputedly the most underachieving race of people in the history of humanity. The one and only reason for the introduction of blacks onto the northern continent was due to the fact of well to do greedy white plantation owners were too lazy to cut their own sugar cane.. Simply facts but will ,, I am sure ,, with the help of the black propagandists these facts will naturally evolve into and be defined as "racisism".
Posted by lotus_flower 5 years ago
lotus_flower
Mailboxes ,penut butter, and stoplights, to name only a few things were all invented by african americans. Also, many famous poets and writers were african americans. So, I don't really see pro's arguement.
Posted by curious18 5 years ago
curious18
I find it funny that Thett3 uses 5 wiki sources of his 7 and no one seems to vote against it, but when I used only 2 wiki sources out of 5, people had a problem.
Posted by debate250 5 years ago
debate250
I would definitely not agree to pro's argument that blacks have contributed nothing original. There are plenty of original ideas and items invented by blacks.
Posted by thett3 5 years ago
thett3
No no, I was thanking massdebator sarcastically for votebombing on 7 of my debates
Posted by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
Was my vote a "vote bomb"?
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by popculturepooka 5 years ago
popculturepooka
MassDebator255thett3Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's rap and slavery arguments cinched this debate.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
MassDebator255thett3Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: The resolution is ridiculous, of course. It takes only a single counterexample to defeat it, and Con provided a number. Con could have cited important modern Black thinkers like Thomas Sowell, John McWhorter, Susan Rice, Condi Rice, etc. Still, enough.
Vote Placed by curious18 5 years ago
curious18
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Reasons for voting decision: Thett3 had a better argument and backed it with more and better sources. Mass reposted his round 1, posted in ugly blocks, and can't even spell his own name.
Vote Placed by mongeese 5 years ago
mongeese
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's example of MLK went unrefuted, and his example of rap was especially powerful. The Plotinus example was weak, as he was in no way black, but it didn't matter.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro showed his grand ignorance of history when he gave meaningless impressions (telling the voters to look a picture of Plotinus, arguing that listening to Bob Dylan's music will prove his point, even when Con showed that rap music has its roots in African music,and so on.) Pro loses points for his meaningless rant in regards to slavery, spelling and grammar due to his incredibly poor argument structure, and sources--simply because none of them verified his point like thett3's...
Vote Placed by randolph7 5 years ago
randolph7
MassDebator255thett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Any argument that starts with "Im not a racist" is most assuredly racist. However his opponent simply argued better.
Vote Placed by wierdman 5 years ago
wierdman
MassDebator255thett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: certain debates should not be allowed...
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
MassDebator255thett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Thett provided a much better argument. If mass wants to persue this opinion, he should restrict it to the US, not the world. Since the US is new enough, that it could be argued that all contributions to it are rooted in "white" people. But for the world, you aren't going to be able to do that.
Vote Placed by OMGJustinBieber 5 years ago
OMGJustinBieber
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Reasons for voting decision: Fairly dominating performance. Con cites several contributions causing Pro to shift the goal posts and the position collapses after being faced with actual historical facts.
Vote Placed by Double_R 5 years ago
Double_R
MassDebator255thett3Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro had an extraordinary burden and did not fulfill it. Cons slavery argument was all he needed to win this debate, which stood. Other arguments by Con seemed convincing but I honestly did not spend much time reading them because it was not necessary.