The Instigator
listeningtothepeople
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
socialpinko
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

Bob Marley Vs The Beatles

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
socialpinko
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2012 Category: Arts
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,246 times Debate No: 24200
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (5)

 

listeningtothepeople

Pro

For this debate I will be arguing that Bob Marley was a superior musician to the Beatles and his impact on the world was much greater.
My opponent will argue the Beatles had a greater impact on music and on the world in general. Note that one cannot argue any of the member of the Beatles solo careers or their work after the Beatles.
Round 1 is for acceptance only. Round 2 we will both make are arguments, there will be no rebuttals at this point. Round 3 we are free to rebut the opponents main points and no new arguments will be introduced. Round 4 will be for rebuttals and concluding statements
socialpinko

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
listeningtothepeople

Pro

Bob Marley and the Beatles were both clearly some of the most popular musicians of the 20th century and both made numerous contributions to both music and society as a whole. To understand why Marley was more influential than the Beatles one has to first look at the early stages of their careers. Marley was born into the notorious slums of Kingston Jamaica infamous for he gangs and violence to a white father and a black mother. Marley experienced a great deal of prejudice and discrimination because of his mixed skin colour. Instead of using this to fuel his hatred of people different races than him he used it as fuel for him to write songs that aimed to end prejudice and discrimination based on race. The Beatles all lived sheltered lives in England in a time of beneficial social moments and economic prosperity. They all lived sheltered lives and that's one of the reasonably their early music was very similar to a boy band.

Marley's song writing skills were clearly superior to the Beatles. Lennon and McCartney are often considered to be one of the greatest song writing duos of all time, but this is very misleading. Almost half of the songs on the Beatles first album "Please Pleas Me" were covers of songs that had already been extreme popular on the British music charts. One of the Beatles most recognizable songs "Twist and Shout" is a cover of a song by the Top Notes. Marley didn't make nearly as many covers as the Beatles did and he wrote all of his major hits. The Beatles also wrote a number of song with virtually no meaning that were written only to sell albums. Whiled the Beatles were writing songs like "I want to Hold your Hand" and "I Saw Her Standing There" Marley was writing songs like "Judge Not" and "Could You Be Loved" Even early in his career Marley was still writing songs that would become anthems for oppressed peoples all over the world, while The Beatles were writing songs similar to those a boy band would sing today. Marley also used drugs as a way to write some the greatest songs of all time such as "Three Little Birds" and "No Woman No Cry" while The Beatles used drugs to write some of their worst songs. Almost any Beatles fan will tell you two of The Beatles worst songs are "I am the Walrus" and "Octopus Garden". Marley used his drug use to advance his music while The Beatles used it to hinder their music which eventually led to their decline.
Marley's songs also became anthems of the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, the global peace movement and ending Apartheid in South Africa. Civil rights leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr. quoted lines from

Marley songs such as "Get Up Stand Up" to rally African Americans to stand up for their rights in a non-violent way. Leaders of the gay rights movement sang "Waiting In Vain" while they pressuring the Canadian government to allow same sex marriage. Marley's influence can even be seen as far away as South Africa, while protesting Mandela's arbitrary imprisonment the African people sang "Redemption Song". Could you imagine gay activist singing "Let it Be" while protesting the right to same e sex marriage? Marley used his music to advance society and help individuals fight for their rights in a peaceful manner while The Beatles wrote music to make money.

Marley's influence can still be seen in thousand of youth and young adults all over the world. The first example of this can be seen in the thousands of youth who wear Bob Marley T-shirts with his image and a lion across the chest. It's true certain youth do just wear the shirts for fashion, but many of them wear the shits to help spread Marley's message of love and co-existence. I see very few young people wearing shirts with the image of The Beatles on them and the few who do just wear them to show they prefer 20th century music to today music. I also see numerous young people who wear their hair i dreadlocks paying homage to Marley. People of all ethnicities wear their hair in dreads to show their love of Marley. I see very few people wearing the hair in Beatle bobs. Marley is also one of the most requested subjects for tattoos, some people use Marley's full face to show their commitment and love of his music. While other have lines from his songs or quotes on their bodies. There are numerous freedom fighters in South America and Africa with tattoos of Marley quotes as they inspire people to fight the evils of Babylon and work to better humanity.

Marley was also better than The Beatles because he helped developed reggae into a popular genre of music. Before Marley their were few reggae artist and virtually none of them were known outside Jamaica. Marley used his great song writing skills to bring reggae to the mainstream and expose people all around the world to it. Marley has also influenced nearly every future reggae musician from Matisyahu and Trevor Hall to Byron Lee. The Beatles didn't create rock and they weren't responsible for making it mainstream. The Beatles have gone on to influence many rock musicians, but they weren't the dominant influence as many modern rock artists such as Pearljam and Tom Petty were influence more by people like Buddy Holly and Freddie Mercury. Also if it weren't for Marley reggae likely wouldn't have left Jamaica, while if their were no Beatles groups like The Rolling Stones and The Police would still brought British rock to the mainstream.

Marley also bought the religion of Rastafarianism to North America and Europe. Before Marley Rastafarian was a region with a small following and only truly practiced in Jamaica and Ethiopia. Marley brought the religion to America which appealed to many agnostics and African-Americans forever changing the political and religious make up of the world and showed his charisma. The closest thing The Beatles did to advance a religion was when John Lennon said The Beatles were bigger than Jesus. The Beatles never had the charisma to lead religious revolution and were one of the many different groups who contributed to a musical revolution while Bob Marley virtually did it all by himself.
socialpinko

Con

My case in support of The Beatles being a superior musical group and being more influential than Bob Marley will consist of three contentions. Contention I will focus on the Beatles profoundly innovative, experimental song writing and musical collaborations. Contention II will focus on the Beatles relative success compared to Bob Marley and Contention III will focus on the social and philosophical aspects explored within the Beatles songbook. As per my opponent's request I will use this round only for introductory arguments and not for rebuttals.


Also, due to the fact that I wrote the separate contentions at different times, the sources are divided between which contention they refer to. Sources under Contention II for example relate to the numbering of sources within Contention II and only within Contention II.


Contention I. Innovation and Influence.


Before the Beatles jumped on to the music scene, rock music had never seen a group innovate so many genres or take musical experimentation so far. On the innovation of music recording alone, the Beatles are notable not only for recording the first song on record utilizing guitar feedback (on the song "I Feel Fine"[C1], the first music group to use artificial double tracking[C2], and one of the first uses of backward recording[C3]. These are all techniques which came to have incredible influences on bands to come.


Contention II. Relative success comparison.


It certainly cannot be denied that the Beatles as a group are one of the most successful groups in modern music history. Every album released after 1964 by the group (15 albums not counting the another 3 albums before that time) went at least platinum in the U.S. with their self titled album going 19X platinum![C1] Compare this to the certification status of Bob Marey. Only one album released by Bob Marley went platinum, only 2X to be exact[C2]. Only five albums released by the Beatles failed to go platinum, compared with all but one of Bob Marley's. Obviously based on record sales alone, we can see that the Beatles were much more successful not only in their popularization of their music but in their popularity around the world.


Of course, record sales alone are not enough to determine success. Let's see how the Beatles stand up against the critics. Rolling Stone Magazine in 2003 compiled a list of the 500 Greatest Albums of All time, "based on the votes of 273 rock musicians, critics, and industry figures"[C3]. The results speak for themselves. The Beatles were the clear winners with 4 albums within just the top ten (with ten of their twelve studio albums making the list[C4]), among them "The White Album", Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Nand[C5]. The Beatles also did very nicely on various lists of the greatest artists of all time (#1 on the list)[C6], (also #1)[C7], (also #1)[C8]. Among these lists, Bob Marley never got past #9. The Beatles dwarf outweigh Bob Marley in terms of sales as well as critical reception.


On a side note, it says quite a bit about the level of respect the Beatles receive from other critically successful music artists. Besides outright praise and claims of influence, many successful musicians have cited the Beatles as early inspiration. Dave Grohl states, "I never had a teacher, I just had these Beatles records. Even in Nirvana The Beatles were such a huge influence. Kurt loved The Beatles because it was just so simple. Well, it seemed simple, they sound easy to play, but you know what? They're hard."[C9] Of course, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery as they say. Critically successful musicians who have covered Beatles songs range from Eric Claption, Black Sabbath, Aerosmith, Johnny Cash, Jeff Beck, The Beach Boys, Bono, Pat Bentar, Nirvana, and even Metallica[C10].


Contention III. Social and philosophical lyrical focus.


The last contention which I will bring in my introductory arguments will be an analysis of the deep lyrical aspects of the Beatles songs. It's one thing that the Beatles profoundly influenced the methods used today to record songs and albums, however this would all be for nothing if the actual lyrical structure of their songs didn't hold some weight. You will not be disappointed. Consider the Beatles song "Within You Without You". At first glance one could pass it off as simply a song influenced by the Beatles famous experimentation with LSD. However, one would do well to remember George Harrison's involvement with and popularization of Hinduism. Harrison uses these concepts to explain the true oneness of the universe and the illusion of space between us. Consider these lyrics:


We were talking
About the space between us all
And the people who hide themselves
Behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth
Then it's far too late
When they pass away


Far from being the drug induced ramblings of a new age hippie, Harrison is communicating one of the central truths of Hinduism and many Eastern religions[C1]. Countless other Beatles songs contain within their lyrics profound themes relating to life and the world around us. Eleanor Rigby related to depression and loneliness, Let it Be provides advise for the downtrodden in an era muddled with strife and war, etc. etc. etc. Not only did the Beatles create music so aesthetically pleasing so as to appeal to huge numbers of people, but they were simultaneously able to communicate deep personal ideas about philosophy and the human experience.


===Sources===


CI Sources


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://www.wired.com...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...(The_Beatles_song)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEThe_Beatles2000212-6


CII Sources


[1] http://www.riaa.org...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.rollingstone.com...
[6] http://www.rollingstone.com... (Rolling Stone)
[7] http://stereogum.com... (VH1)
[8] http://today.msnbc.msn.com... (TODAY)
[9] http://www.live4ever.uk.com...
[10] http://en.wikipedia.org...


CIII Sources


[1] http://hinduism.ygoy.com...
Debate Round No. 2
listeningtothepeople

Pro

listeningtothepeople forfeited this round.
socialpinko

Con

Extend arguments and refutations. And I was actually looking forward to this debate. :(
Debate Round No. 3
listeningtothepeople

Pro

listeningtothepeople forfeited this round.
socialpinko

Con

Further forfeit by my opponent has left me with not much to do this round. So I will just extend my arguments and refutations again. Also enjoy the video please. In honor of the Beatles who are way better than Bob Marley. (One of my personal favorites)
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by challavijay 11 months ago
challavijay
good information about such bob marley quotes it was so useful for me to read and enjoy.
Posted by socialpinko 5 years ago
socialpinko
Microsuck, I just asked Analytic to change his vote. We'll see what he does.
Posted by bossyburrito 5 years ago
bossyburrito
Lolzapalooza
Posted by socialpinko 5 years ago
socialpinko
Took me a freaking hour to write all that.
Posted by bossyburrito 5 years ago
bossyburrito
Easy Con win.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by ldcon 5 years ago
ldcon
listeningtothepeoplesocialpinkoTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Video=win
Vote Placed by AnalyticArizonan 5 years ago
AnalyticArizonan
listeningtothepeoplesocialpinkoTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not make a better case than Con. He did not convince me that Marley is better than the Beatles
Vote Placed by Microsuck 5 years ago
Microsuck
listeningtothepeoplesocialpinkoTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter vote bomb.
Vote Placed by Kinesis 5 years ago
Kinesis
listeningtothepeoplesocialpinkoTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Fascinating and comprehensive argument from Con. Forfeit from Pro.
Vote Placed by Deathbeforedishonour 5 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
listeningtothepeoplesocialpinkoTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Well, I hate that I had to vote against Bob Marley...Thanks a bunch pro..