The Instigator
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
Viper-King
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Border fence

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/2/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 832 times Debate No: 20177
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (2)

 

16kadams

Con

first round acceptance only. We are debating the current fence: http://www.google.com...

or

http://www.google.com...

we argue both. Same thing. Don't use the 40 foot high with machine gun fence. We argue this.
Viper-King

Pro

We can argue both. I ask my opponent to slow down with this debate (putting out his argument within the last day)as I don't have Internet connection and will try to respond as fast as possible.
Debate Round No. 1
16kadams

Con

No we debate the border fences provided not both. Keep this debate on America only.

C1: environmental impact

Environmentalists fear he hundreds of miles of fence will kill many animals as it will separate them from the rio grand, the only major source of fresh water on the border. [1]

It could also kill animals and mess up their breeding patterns on the border as they would no longer be able to cross. [1]

It also affects black bears :(.

researchers say it is an obstacle for black bears [2]

It says the Arizona black bear population north of the border will be affected my this fence, as it would separate them and destroy their habitat. They also say it will mess up their mating patterns as it would separate 2 big populations of these beautiful creatures. [2]

Walls have caused environmental destruction, fragmenting crucial habitat for animals, including endangered species, funneling migrants and Border Patrol enforcement activities through fragile ecosystems, and triggering large-scale erosion. [6]


C2: Cost

this is the second most imortant argument.

Rick perry said it would cost 30 billion dollars and 10-20 years to create [3].

In 2009 congressional research said it costs 21 million dollars every miles of fence [3]

San Diego border patrol says it is 16 million per square mile. Bu this low estimate still exceeds the billions when fully made. [3]

The goverment accountability office has an extremely low estimate of 6.5 billion dollars over the next 20 years. [4]

another study says 4 million dollars per square mile [5]

The financial burden to U.S. taxpayers may well exceed $49 billion for wall construction and maintenance. [6]

another study says it costs 7.5 million per square mile [7]


C3: doesn't work

In fact, the Border Patrol's own statistics show that the border walls have not brought about a decrease in illegal entries. [7]

And in the areas where walls have been built the amount of entry in those areas increase [7]

The lowest break-in time was BEFORE the wall was constructed, not after. [7]

Migrants were not stopped by border walls; they simply went around them. [7]

Colin Powell is against the wall, saying that it just doesn't work. [8]

Former NM Governor Bill Richardson, a border governor, said the border wall is a terrible symbol and doesn't work. [9]
hey agree with the man for once.

Physical barriers also have not reduced the rates of contraband drug smuggling into the United States [10]

The planned border wall is remarkably ineffective at keeping immigrants out. [11]

==conclusion==

You and I agree we need to secure the border, this debate isn't about that though, it is about a dumb fence. I have proven a few things, 1. it hurts the environment, 2. it is costly and we do not need that cost amidst this debt, 3. it just doesn't work. Therefore I urge you to vote con.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com... [1]
http://www.nytimes.com... [2]
http://www.nytimes.com... [3]
http://www.cbsnews.com... [4]
http://theweek.com... [5]
http://www.no-border-wall.com... [6]
http://www.no-border-wall.com... [7]
http://www.breitbart.com... [8]
http://www.usatoday.com... [9]
http://www.newsecuritybeat.org... [10]
http://rawstory.com... [11]
Viper-King

Pro

Viper-King forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
16kadams

Con

well this is to bad, Hope its not like this debate (with you): http://www.debate.org...

extend arguments.
Viper-King

Pro

Viper-King forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Viper-King

Pro

Rebuttal: Damn it! How did I miss two rounds. Give my opponent two points for conduct.
C1: First of all, the environmental impact is horrible but what matters more? The environment with all the details like you said or people dying because of illegal immigration. Both the uninhabited areas of the border and urban areas are where the most drug trafficking and illegal crossings take place. Crime is easy to find in urban cities like El Paso, Texas and San Diego, California because of illegal immigrants. The border is constructed of a series of short walls and virtual fence areas that are monitored by Border Patrol Agents through a system of cameras and sensors. In the last 13 years, over 5,000 migrant deaths occurred along the border according to a document from the Human Rights National Commission of Mexico. The conclusion is that the environment doesn't matter when matched against illegal immigrants, illegal drugs and alcohol, and bigger crime rates. http://www.debate.org...
C2: Would you rather people die everyday because of illegal immigration? Does Rick Perry saying the cost make any difference? We have illegal drugs and alcohol with more unemployed illegal immigrants without jobs or homes. The truth is that illegal immigration leads to crime. For instance, in Arizona, undocumented illegal immigrants represent 14.8% of state prisons even though they account for only 7% of the nation. 14.8% means 5,983 in prison! The new data also revealed for the first time a breakdown of crimes for which undocumented immigrants were incarcerated. Of all the prisoners serving time in Arizona state prisons for kidnapping, 40 percent were undocumented. Of those in prison on drug charges, 24 percent were undocumented. And 13 percent of those serving time for murder were undocumented immigrants, according to the new data from the Arizona Department of Corrections. This is why we need a border fence to stop illegal immigration. In conclusionIn the next contention,I will explain why it is needed! www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20011391-10391695.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
C3: Right now, the border fence doesn't work because it covers only 685 miles which means they can go around it but if it covers every mile, then they can't get around it! In the Tucson sector of Arizona alone, approximately 215,000-250,000 illegal aliens were apprehended by Border Patrol in 2010; however, estimates show that for every one person apprehended, approximately five go free, meaning there are likely over 1,000,000 illegal aliens entering through the Tucson Sector alone each year! If there is a 2,000 mile border fence, then the people can't cross to the States. It only doesn't work because the fence doesn't cover the whole thing.https://www.buildtheborderfence.com...
Thank you all. Vote Pro because I proved that the border fence works and is needed.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
posting arguments last round is abusive.
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
kk tell me if I need to respond later or sooner
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
yay
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
ok accept then I start
Posted by Viper-King 4 years ago
Viper-King
how bout this first then maybe next time "aborion" whatever that is =)
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
really? You said abortion so confused so this or aborion (I am already in an aboriton debate so I woudl prefer this) So which one?
Posted by Viper-King 4 years ago
Viper-King
i was going to accept?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by jm_notguilty 4 years ago
jm_notguilty
16kadamsViper-KingTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeits. PRO's last round is considered null and void.
Vote Placed by ConservativePolitico 4 years ago
ConservativePolitico
16kadamsViper-KingTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: First of all Pro forfeited two rounds leaving him less than ample time to refute the points laid out by Con. Also it seemed like a cheap ploy to get the last word in with no time for rebutal. Also his points were weak leaving Con with the victory since he was dodgey and not very convincing. Con used way more sources th back his position up.