The Instigator
skepticseeker
Pro (for)
The Contender
lemontiger123
Con (against)

Both Atheist and Christians lack objective morality

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/1/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 205 times Debate No: 98595
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skepticseeker

Pro

Christians believe that the Bible is a source of objective morality, but this is not the case. In looking at what the bible says about a few moral issues we can find the reality is that it takes a subjective stance on many moral issues. Before showing this to be the case I want to quickly make sure that we are understanding the terms the same. Objective morality would be considered moral or immoral regardless of the views or opinions of individuals. Subjective morality suggest that moral truths are not absolute and can vary.

Some atheist believe there are no objective moral standards, while others believe that there are. I cannot speak to those who do believe that there are objective morals, as I do not believe that they exist. I did want to point out however that saying all atheist don't have or believe in objective morality is not the case, as you stated in the other debate on this topic you created.

Mostly I wanted to point out that Christians don't have objective morality. To show this point true I want to consider two moral issues addressed in the bible.

1. The Bible clearly condemns lying as immoral. We find in the book of Revelation that it is stated that liars will burn in hell (cf. Rev. 21:9). The Old Testament also has its condemnation of liars (cf. Proverbs 12:22; 13:5; Lev. 19:11). I think we would both agree that the bible condemns lying as that which is immoral. The thing you may not be aware of is that there are times when lying is depicted as something acceptable. In the story of Moses there were midwives who lied to save the lives of children (cf Exo. 1:15-22). In this account the midwives were told to kill male children, but they let the children live instead. The king then asks them why they have done this and they lied saying that the children were being born before they arrived (again they lied). God does not punish them for this lie instead he is happy with them (cf. Exo. 1:20). Clearly the Bible does not teach objective morality because we have an example here were lying was the right decision even though lying is generally frowned on. If lying were objectively wrong the midwives would have been wrong for lying and god should have punished them. Another example of lying that was considered okay is in the book of Joshua. In chapter 2 we read the story of Rehab who hid the spies of Israel sent to the city of Jericho to search out the land god promised to them. In this story, we read about how she hid the spies and lied to guards searching for them (cf. Joshua 2:5) so they could escape the city. We see later that because of what Rehab had done (which was to lie) she and her family were saved from the destruction of Jericho. God seemed to be fine with lying when it benefited his "plan." This is an example of subjective not objective morality.

2. We can also find subjective morality when it comes to taking human life. As we both know the Bible clearly says we should not kill others. It's one of the lauded ten commandments (cf. Exo. 20:13; Deut. 5:17). Yet we see innumerable examples of God commanding individuals to kill (Deut. 17:1-5; Joshua 6:20-21; Exo. 32:1-28), or simply doing it himself (cf. Acts 1:11; Gen. 6 & 7; II Kings 1:1-10).

These examples show that the morality of the Bible is subjective not objective. Depending on the situation lying and even murder is considered wrong or okay.
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