The Instigator
ToastOfDestiny
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
NotPurpleHaze
Con (against)
Winning
35 Points

Both debaters must follow the rules.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/27/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,228 times Debate No: 9351
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (22)
Votes (7)

 

ToastOfDestiny

Pro

1. By accepting this debate, my opponent agrees to all the rulse already posted. By voting on this debate, voters accept the foundation rules that apply to them.

2. Rules created hold power over all rules posted later, and no later rule can contradict an earlier rule.

3. Both players should still have the ability to post rules in their turn.

4. A player may only do something besides make rules to discuss whether one has broken a rule, or whether a rule is null.

5. Not counting these foundation rules, each player can only create 3 rules per turn.

6. Each player must produce 3 rules per round or they forfeit.

7. Rules cannnot result in an auto-win. Breaking a rule cannot result in the victory of the rule-breaker. Each player should have an oppportunity to not break each rule.

8. A voter must default all categories to the victor of the debate.

9. The victor of this debate is the one who has committed the fewest infractions of the rules.

10. Breaking a foundation rule results in the breaker's automatic loss.

11. All rules are assumed to apply only to future actions.

12. ToastOfDestiny must use the numbers 13-27 and NotPurpleHaze must use the numbers 28-42 for their respective rules.
/Foundation Rules

13. Con's rules must restrict himself and only himself.

14. Con must follow rule 13.

15. Con must follow rule 14.
NotPurpleHaze

Con

"13. Con's rules must restrict himself and only himself."

Pro has broken foundation rule number 7 with this rule.

"7. Rules cannnot result in an auto-win. Breaking a rule cannot result in the victory of the rule-breaker. Each player should have an oppportunity to not break each rule."

Because any rule that I could possibly post to restrict myself from doing anything would also be a restriction on Pro from posting a rule that would force me to do what I have restricted myself from doing.

"10. Breaking a foundation rule results in the breaker's automatic loss."

Thank you for the debate............
Debate Round No. 1
ToastOfDestiny

Pro

Con's actions are interesting, however, he seals his own coffin by not posting any rules. More on that later - right now I will address his accusations.

"Because any rule that I could possibly post to restrict myself from doing anything would also be a restriction on Pro from posting a rule that would force me to do what I have restricted myself from doing."
You wouldn't be restricting me at all - the foundation rules would be restricting me. You wouldn't be stopping me from posting a rule contrary to your own; foundation rule 2 ("no later rule can contradict an earlier rule") would be.

Now let's look at the foundation rules that Con has broken.

"6. Each player must produce 3 rules per round or they forfeit."
"12. ToastOfDestiny must use the numbers 13-27 and NotPurpleHaze must use the numbers 28-42 for their respective rules."

Con has broken TWO foundation rules. He can only allege that I have broken one, while I can show you with certainty that he has broken two.

"10. Breaking a foundation rule results in the breaker's automatic loss."

This leaves us in a situation in which both debaters have automatically lost by breaking the foundation rules. However, One of us (Con) has forfeited as well. This means you MUST vote for me over Con.

16. Con must write his discussion on rule-breaks (though not rules) in an ABCABC rhyming scheme.

17. Con's poetry must reference Petrarch as his inspiration.

18. Con must strongly encourage voters to vote Pro in all subsequent rounds. He may not negate this encouragement with statements which have similar meanings to "the following is what you should NOT do" or "just kidding".
NotPurpleHaze

Con

No my friend. Say I were to post a rule restricting myself from using the word lemon, would you be able to post a rule to make me say lemon? Any rule I could possibly make to restrict myself, would in some way restrict you. So there is no way that I could not break your rules.

"7. Rules cannnot result in an auto-win. Breaking a rule cannot result in the victory of the rule-breaker. Each player should have an oppportunity to not break each rule."

See this part:

Each player should have an oppportunity to not break each rule."

Again...

"10. Breaking a foundation rule results in the breaker's automatic loss."

Thank you.

And I reckon you should go change your vote on myself and mongeeses debate because he lost in the same way!!
Debate Round No. 2
ToastOfDestiny

Pro

I'll concede that I broke a foundation rule. However, you have even more clearly broken two:

"6. Each player must produce 3 rules per round or they forfeit."
"12. ToastOfDestiny must use the numbers 13-27 and NotPurpleHaze must use the numbers 28-42 for their respective rules."

So this is what has happened in this debate, as nonsensical as it is. I lost automatically in R1. You lost automatically in R1. At that point, a voter would have to vote 'tied'. However, you also forfeited in R1 by not posting rules. Therefore, I win this debate. Let me give a quick example of a fictitious debate that follows this same pattern.

Debate: neither debater may use the letter 'e'.
Pro: Apart from this sentence, neither of us can use the letter 'e'. Let the games begin!
Con: Haha! You used the letter 'e'. Whatever, I forfeit.
Pro: Shucks. We both lose, but he forfeited. Vote for me!
Con: Don't do it! He lost first! Vote for me. Also, I forfeit.

It is clear that both players have lost, right? However, voters need to vote Pro here, as Con also lost, but forfeited too. He forfeited in round 2 as well. No matter how many foundation rules I broke in R1 (even if I broke every single one), you must vote for me, as Con has forfeited.

Remember: 6. Each player must produce 3 rules per round or they forfeit.

Con never refutes this forfeit in R2. He glides right past it, conceding the point. He has conceded his forfeit, thus conceding this debate.

19. Con should refer to pants in R3.
20. Con must follow rule 19.
21. Con must follow rule 20.

Vote Pro!
NotPurpleHaze

Con

Yeah you concede you broke a foundation rule, which results in automatic loss.....

What arent you getting here?
Debate Round No. 3
ToastOfDestiny

Pro

That makes Con's third forfeit. I may have broken a foundation rule and lost, but he did as well. When one of two losers forfeits, the other one wins. He has again failed to address my arguments.

Again, "6. Each player must produce 3 rules per round or they forfeit."

No matter what else has happened, NotPurpleHaze has forfeited this debate. I agree that I have 'lost', however, his forfeit surpasses my 'loss'.

22. Con must follow rule 21.
23. Con must follow rule 22.
24. Con must follow rule 23.

NotPurpleHaze, would you say that you have broken a foundation rule?

A similar thing happened in mongeese's rule debate with NotPurpleHaze. Mongeese said, ""6. Each player must produce 3 rules per round or they forfeit." [NotPurpleHaze] did not post any rules, and therefore, forfeits this debate. I win. Plain and simple. Regardless of the arguments, a forfeit results in my instant victory.", to which NPH replied, "Balls...". Check it out: http://www.Debate.org... .

This debate is following this same pattern, and I therefore ask you to vote Pro.
NotPurpleHaze

Con

Bud you cant compare this to my debate with mongeese because in my debate with mongeese both of us still believed there was a game to be lost. Even though there wasnt because he lost the same way you did. I just didnt realise it in that debate.

The only reason you still believe that you won is because you are still counting infractions, but infractions have only to do with the rules we create going by the foundation rules.

10. Breaking a foundation rule results in the breaker's automatic loss.

You cant lose the same game twice bud.....

You can commit infractions of the rules which would be counted in the end and the one with less infractions would be declared the winner.

But you didn't commit just any old infraction. You broke a foundation rule. You lost. The game was over. It did not matter that I did not post my rules because the game was over.

Be a man and admit defeat.
Debate Round No. 4
ToastOfDestiny

Pro

The infraction count is now meaningless, as we have both broken foundation rules and 'lost'. However, you forfeited by not posting rules in any round so far. Despite the fact that we both have lost, I have won due to your forfeit.

"You cant lose the same game twice bud"
Neither of us lost this game twice. See above.

'You broke a foundation rule. You lost. The game was over. It did not matter that I did not post my rules because the game was over."

This game doesn't end until you post in R5. The rules apply until neither of us can post any more. I still cannot post rule that contradicts an earlier rule. If I posted rule 26 saying 'Con must NOT follow rule 25', it would be an invalid rule, as per the foundation rules (because it contradicts an earlier rule).

The rules bind this debate until the end of R5 (and beyond in terms of voting).

25. Con must refer to pants in R5.
26. Con must follow rule 25.
27. Con must follow rule 26.

Because NPH has forfeited every round of this debate so far, and because he has failed to properly defend his side, vote Pro!
NotPurpleHaze

Con

Well he didn't go down without a fight in fairness to him.

Ye know who won!!!
Debate Round No. 5
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
Valiant effort, Toast, but you bought it in record speed.
Posted by ccstateisback 8 years ago
ccstateisback
This is screwed up beyond belief. If I could vote, I would split the points.
Posted by mongeese 8 years ago
mongeese
I'll have to say, an automatic loss trumps a forfeit.
Posted by NotPurpleHaze 8 years ago
NotPurpleHaze
It wasnt me who made it a mess.
Posted by wjmelements 8 years ago
wjmelements
What a mess.
Posted by NotPurpleHaze 8 years ago
NotPurpleHaze
Its not messed up. Hes just making a fool of himself.
Posted by NotPurpleHaze 8 years ago
NotPurpleHaze
And the difference between this debate and my debate with mongeese is that we believed that neither of had won yet at the time when he said "Regardless of the arguments, a forfeit results in my instant victory."

Be a man and admit defeat. I did it when I thought I had lost that debate against mongeese.
Posted by NotPurpleHaze 8 years ago
NotPurpleHaze
No I didnt lose here. Nor did I lose in my debate with mongeese as he did the exact same thing as you.

Why follow the rules of a game that is over?
Posted by ToastOfDestiny 8 years ago
ToastOfDestiny
You actually lost the same way you did here. To quote mongeese, "Regardless of the arguments, a forfeit results in my instant victory."
Posted by ToastOfDestiny 8 years ago
ToastOfDestiny
I don't think I voted on your debate with mongeese.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
ToastOfDestinyNotPurpleHazeTied
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Vote Placed by alwaz4dam 8 years ago
alwaz4dam
ToastOfDestinyNotPurpleHazeTied
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Vote Placed by ToastOfDestiny 8 years ago
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ToastOfDestinyNotPurpleHazeTied
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Vote Placed by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
ToastOfDestinyNotPurpleHazeTied
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Vote Placed by mongoose 8 years ago
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ToastOfDestinyNotPurpleHazeTied
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Vote Placed by mongeese 8 years ago
mongeese
ToastOfDestinyNotPurpleHazeTied
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Vote Placed by Rezzealaux 8 years ago
Rezzealaux
ToastOfDestinyNotPurpleHazeTied
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