The Instigator
jarek36
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Ore_Ele
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

Brett Favre was just as good of a quarterback as Aaron Rodgers

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Ore_Ele
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/7/2011 Category: Sports
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,827 times Debate No: 19739
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (4)

 

jarek36

Pro

At the age Aaron Rodgers is now, Brett Favre (95-96 seasons) had essentially identical numbers (http://www.jsonline.mobi...). But I feel that my generation (I'm 21) doesn't appreciate all that Favre did for the Packers organization because we were too young to realize the level he was playing at. I love Aaron Rodgers, but it think that it was an injustice the way the Packers treated him his last few years. This video is of Favre's 1995 season.
http://www.youtube.com...
Ore_Ele

Con

Since we are looking at the best of Favre (95' and 96' seasons), it is only fair to compare to the best of Rogers. As such, let us only look at this season so far (through week 13).

With that, I will allow my opponent to make the opening argument (it wouldn't be fair for me to make the first and last).

Thank you,
Debate Round No. 1
jarek36

Pro

As of now, Rodgers has a completion % of 70.6, 3,844 yards, 37 TDs, and 5 Interceptions. Through the 95-96 seasons Favre averaged a completion % of 64.45, 4,156 total yards, 38.5 TDs, and 13 Interceptions. While I'll admit that Rodger's numbers are on track to outpace Favre's, I'll argue that Rodgers' receivers are in their prime. Favre's career top four receivers were Antonio Freeman (57 TDs From Favre), Sterling Sharpe (41 TDs from Favre), Donald Driver (36 TDs) and Robert Brooks (32 TDS). Driver didn't play for the Packers until 1999. Sharpe left the Packers after the 1994 season. Freeman caught no passes in 1995, and caught only 9 TDs in 1996. Brooks caught 17 TDs in the 1995 and 1996 seasons combined. Therefore 51 touchdowns, only 46% of the total touchdowns through the 1995-96 seasons were to his top four receivers of his career. Rodgers on the other hand has thrown almost 50% (48.6) of his touchdowns to his top four receivers of his career (Jennings, Driver, Jones, and Lee). I will concede that Rodger's career has been much shorter and maybe his numbers will change as the receivers come and go, but I still feels there's validity to show that Rodgers had better talent at the receiver position, which in turn, is giving him some higher numbers. All stats were received from http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
Ore_Ele

Con

I thank my opponent for a quick round. His argument can best be summed up that Rogers has better numbers, but that it is because Rogers has better receivers. I'll address this in two parts.

Lets get a clear view of the numbers for Farve [1]. Farve made 684 passes out of 1,113 attempts for 8,312 yards. This comes to 61.46% completion rate (not 64.45%), with an average of 7.45 yards per attempt and 12.13 yards per completion. He had a total of 77 TDs and 26 picks.

Now let us get a good look at the numbers for Rogers [2]. Rogers has made 288 passes out of 408 attempts for 3,844 yards (this is on pace to hit 10,250 yards over 32 games, almost 2,000 more yards than Favre in his prime). This comes to 70.59% completion rate, with an average of 9.42 yards per attempt (26% better than Favre) and 13.35 yards per completion (10% better than Favre). He also has 37 TDs (on route to 99 TDs in 32 games, 28.6% better than Favre) and only 5 picks (on rounte to only 13 picks for 32 games, 50% better than Favre).

We can clearly see that Rogers has better numbers. The real task of this debate is to see if it is because he, himself is better, or is it some other reason. By opponent makes two claims which I will here refute.

1) Rogers has better receivers.

My opponent attempts to use the best recievers from Favre's career, even though two of them didn't play in the time frame that we are looking. That seems like cherry picking data. To compare who had better receivers, we need to look at the receivers in that time frame. As such, let us look at only the top 2 for each season (since sometimes players leave during the off season).

In 1995 [3], the top 2 were Robert Brooks (1,497 yards with 13 TDs) and Mark Chmura (679 yards with 7 TDs). Out of Favress 4,413 passing yards and 38 TDs, those two made up 2,176 yards (49.3%) and 20 TDs (52.6%). Going to 1996, we see the top 2 were Antonio Freeman (933 yards with 9 TDs) and Keith Jackson (505 yards with 10 TDs). Out of Favre's 3,899 yards and 39 TDs, those two made up 1,438 yards (36.9%) and 19 TDs (48.7%).

Now, let's go to the receivers with Rogers for 2011. We can see that the top 2 are Greg Jennings (929 yards and 9 TDs) and Jordan Nelson (876 yards with 9 TDs). Out of Rogers' 3,844 yards and 37 TDs, these two come to 1,805 yards (47.0%) and 18 TDs (48.6%). Here we can see that for yardage, it falls between Favre's 95 and 96 seasons (though leaning to the 95 season, it is still between them) and for TDs, we can see that it is actually less (though not by much) than both the 95 and 96 seasons.

These stats dispell the notion that Rogers has better receviers. Another stat that would be telling would be dropped passes (as that is something that is a receiver's fault, not QB's, but would effect a QB's stats). However, Pro-Football-Reference does not have those numbers.

2) Those receivers, rather than his skill, are why he has better numbers

There is, however, another readily available stat to look at, that can shed some light on this. And that is Interceptions. While some interceptions come from balls being deflected into the air, it is not a significant number that do, and the ints that do happen that way are fairly even through out the league. Picks are something that is almost entirely on the QB, as a good QB can lace a ball into a tight hole where only his guy can get it and the defender cannot. Sometimes, if the receiver is not of a high enough caliber, those balls will fall incomplete, but they will only be picked if the QB failed and missed the hole.

Looking at hole Rogers is set to have 13 picks in 32 games, while Favre had 26 picks over 32 games, there is a crystal clear difference between the two in being able to find and hit that spot.

This should displey entirely the notion that it is receivers that are making him better, as I have shown that the receivers are not really any better (by the numbers) and I have presented numbers that show he is better that receivers have little effect on.

But let us move on. I will take Rogers and step him out of his comfort zone of 2011 for just a moment. In the two years of Favre's prime, he threw 13 picks each year (and in his non-prime years, he did a lot worse). Rogers has NEVER thrown more picks than that in a single season. In fact, his rookie season (rookie season for being a starter) he tied it, but all other seasons, he did significantly better. Rogers has also has a better completion rating in every season than Favre had in either of those two seasons (Roger's worst was his rookie season at 63.6%, while Favre was 63.0 in 95). Rogers has only once been below 100 for a QB rating (out of 3 completed seasons and this season is looking to be record breaking), while Favre has only been above 100 once (and it was not in his "prime") [1][2].

We can see that all numbers point to Rogers being a better QB than Favre in his prime, that is not to say that Favre is a washed up no good concussion riddled retirement flip-flopper, only that there are some out there that are better.

Thank you,

[1] http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
[2] http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
[3] http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
[4] http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
[5] http://www.pro-football-reference.com...
Debate Round No. 2
jarek36

Pro

jarek36 forfeited this round.
Ore_Ele

Con

My opponent has missed his final round so all arguments extend.

Thank you,
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by jarek36 5 years ago
jarek36
I messed up my Calculation,"Therefore 51 touchdowns, only 46% of the total touchdowns through the 1995-96 seasons were to his top four receivers of his career" it should be 33.8% not 46%
Posted by Greyparrot 5 years ago
Greyparrot
Rob! Where are you?
Posted by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
I'm sure Lasagna would have loved this, lol.
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
THIS is gonna be good :D
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by WriterSelbe 5 years ago
WriterSelbe
jarek36Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: I understand that sometimes you have to forfeit. I was once sick for an entire week which totally screwed me over because I wasn't getting on and finishing my debates. However, it is still obvious that the win goes to Ore_Ele.
Vote Placed by Rockylightning 5 years ago
Rockylightning
jarek36Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.
Vote Placed by BlackVoid 5 years ago
BlackVoid
jarek36Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious
Vote Placed by medic0506 5 years ago
medic0506
jarek36Ore_EleTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfieted which obviously hurts his score. Con had better arguments and gets the conduct points because of the forfeit.