The Instigator
Fight4RightsLyla11
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
EndarkenedRationalist
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Bring back the Pledge of Allegiance in school

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
EndarkenedRationalist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/20/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 666 times Debate No: 40969
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (1)

 

Fight4RightsLyla11

Pro

When I was in elementary school we started every day with the Pledge of Allegiance. Now in high school, my first grade sister doesn't even know what the pledge is. As American's, we should all be able to vow for our country out of loyalty and respect. So I would like for my opponent to give logical reasoning as to why we should not recite the Pledge of Allegiance in schools. The first round is acceptance. The next two are for debates. Thank you and good luck:)
EndarkenedRationalist

Con

I accept and look forward to an engaging debate.

As a note of clarification, PRO has accepted my qualification that I will not be arguing that students should not say the pledge. Instead I will argue that students should not be forced to say the pledge. This transaction is visible in the comments section.
Debate Round No. 1
Fight4RightsLyla11

Pro

Okay, so here I am sitting in my homeroom to start the day, and when the first bell rang, no Pledge of Allegiance. In fact, there is not even a flag in our classrooms anymore. We are not allowed to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in schools anymore, because it may offend people. But here in America, there is no reason that an American should be offended by our pledge. If they don't like it... they can go somewhere where they won't be offended any longer. We should at least have the option to recite the pledge.
EndarkenedRationalist

Con

First of all, the parameters of this debate are unclear. Is my opponent referring to elementary school children, middle school, high school, etc? There are many diverse types of schooling and, as the PRO position in this resolution, it is my opponent's burden of proof to define her applications.

My opponent's entire argument in anecdotal. I could provide a counter-anecdote. In my school, there were flags in every classroom, and the Pledge of Allegiance was recited every day. Nobody was forced to say it, but it was always said over the announcements, and everyone would stand respectfully whether or not they said the pledge. However, anecdotes are not sufficient evidence, and if I fail to provide any additional evidence, then our stories cancel each other out. However, this leaves me with the advantage, as PRO would have then failed to prove that the Pledge of Allegiance is no longer allowed in schools. In fact, I aim to prove that it is.

In 43 states, schools are required to have students say the Pledge of Allegiance [1], as reported by the Education Commission of the States. This does not mean that the students are required to say it - that exists in only 6 states. And rightfully so. After all, it is both ironic and inexcusable to use coercion to dictate the children say the Pledge of Allegiance to a symbol of liberty. Liberty forced upon someone is not liberty. Students have the right to say the pledge, and they also have the right to not say the pledge. Regardless, I have proven that the pledge still exists in schools, and thus my opponent's resolution is false.

I will concede that pledge has become a topic of controversy. Many feel offended because of the phrase, "Under God," which connotes, if not the Christian God, then at least one from the Abrahamic religions. Atheists and other minority religious groups feel - correctly - that they should have the right to refrain from participating in something that counters their beliefs, especially as the phrase was not added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954 during the height of the Red Scare [2]. But atheists and others should have the right to say or not say the pledge as they like. Freedom means exactly that.

I look forward to my opponent's arguments in Round 3 and remind you to vote CON!

[1] http://undergod.procon.org...
[2] http://www.ushistory.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Fight4RightsLyla11

Pro

Let me just say you can vote whoever you want. Pro or Con. I don't care. I posted this because in the past two years i have lived in both Council Bluffs, Ia and Pocahontas, Ia. Neither town, nor any of the surrounding towns, are allowed to recite the pledge of allegiance. And none of the schools have
EndarkenedRationalist

Con

My opponent does not care who votes which way. I propose that this question she wishes to argue might be better placed in a poll or opinion then. In a debate, the two sides argue to prove a point. But my opponent's points are entirely anecdotal with no way of verifying them while I have used counter-anecdotes as well as evidence.

My opponent dropped all my points, including that 43 states require schools by law to recite the Pledge of Allegiance (students have the option in some states). Therefore the pledge cannot be 'gone' from schools and thus the resolution is invalid.

Now, my opponent provides two instances where no one said the pledge. Both cities are in Iowa. According to my source 1 from last round, Iowa is one of the seven states with no laws regarding the Pledge of Allegiance. "No laws" are the operative words. My opponent claims that no one there is "allowed to recite the Pledge of Allegiance." This would mean that there is a law preventing them. However, I have shown that Iowa has no such law, and as I have provided a source and my opponent has not, my argument stands.

Additionally, my opponent's argument is false. I took the liberty of pulling up the agenda of the Community School District in Council Bluffs, Iowa. Right there, number 4 on the agenda, is the Pledge of Allegiance [1]. Clearly it still exists in Iowa and this disproves my opponent's claim. I would also point out the improbability of a state in the United States banning the Pledge of Allegiance from being recited in schools. This strikes me as incredibly unlikely.

I would like to thank my opponent for providing this opportunity to debate. For all of the above reasons, please vote CON in this debate!

[1]. http://www.council-bluffs.k12.ia.us...
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Fight4RightsLyla11 10 months ago
Fight4RightsLyla11
... flags in any of the classrooms. We are literally not allowed to recite it in school. And I believe it should be an option.
*This is the finishing part of my sentence in my argument.*
Posted by Fight4RightsLyla11 10 months ago
Fight4RightsLyla11
I didn't say it should be required. I clearly said in my argument that it should still be an option.
Posted by garciamsc2014 10 months ago
garciamsc2014
I don't think saying the pledge should be a requirement when most children don't even know what it means.
Posted by Fight4RightsLyla11 10 months ago
Fight4RightsLyla11
Yes, i accept.
Posted by JoanJohns 10 months ago
JoanJohns
Oh, that's it? Sounds cool.

By the way I don't need the link anymore. I clicked on my picture to look at settings I can do and I saw the little mail thing that brings me to the tutorial. Thank you though.
Posted by EndarkenedRationalist 10 months ago
EndarkenedRationalist
Fight4RightsLyla11, do you accept my qualification?
Posted by Fight4RightsLyla11 10 months ago
Fight4RightsLyla11
Joanjohns, it's okay! I did the same two days ago while looking for topics for a debate paper. The first round is for my opponent to accept my challenge. The rest are for our arguments.
Posted by JoanJohns 10 months ago
JoanJohns
There's a tutorial? I'm just clicking those four tabs at the top. DEBATES OPINIONS FORUMS and POLLS.

Can I have a link?
Posted by EndarkenedRationalist 10 months ago
EndarkenedRationalist
Joanjohns, I recommend reading the tutorial.
Posted by JoanJohns 10 months ago
JoanJohns
I don't understand. What do you mean by acceptance and then the next two debate? I'm new. I just found this site a couple minutes ago while looking for some research material on an essay. It looked interesting so I made an account.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Nyx999 10 months ago
Nyx999
Fight4RightsLyla11EndarkenedRationalistTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro didn't really debate... Pro had no real arguments, sources, and Pro had terrible grammar, and didn't treat this like a serious debate. Con was intelligent and pursuasive, and I loved the "Liberty forced upon someone is not liberty" argument. I personally don't have any quarrel with the Pledge of Alleigance, EXCEPT for the "Under God" portion, which Con addressed.