The Instigator
megan91509
Pro (for)
Losing
51 Points
The Contender
ABNYU
Con (against)
Winning
60 Points

Britney Spears is screwed up and Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant because of poor parenting...

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/21/2007 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,098 times Debate No: 787
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (37)

 

megan91509

Pro

Firstly there is too much media hype about Jamie Lynn's pregnancy. Yes, she's screwed up just like her sister, and yes that may be fascinating for metaphorical "rubber neckers," but the fact of the matter is, everyone saw it coming. Personally, considering that the Spears' sisters were formally regarded as role models to young girls, the media should not be shoving this story down every ones throat. Too many, children look up to these girls that they the media should not even be reporting this, many naive young children will only glorify their lifestyle in their own minds. Back to the original point though, I realize that Britney being an adult, and Jamie Lynn being 16 means they should have full responsibility of their own actions. I myself am 16, yet I understand the consequences and repercussions of my actions. They should too, but no one can possibly say better parenting would not have changed the outcome of these girls. Their parents, namely their mom, have shoved both of them into the Hollywood spotlight at a very young age. Seems like she did this more for herself, like she was trying to live through her children. Well, she is obviously an unfit mother and people like her need to discover the wonders of birth control, as do her daughters.
ABNYU

Con

Hello Megan,

I would first like to congratulate your abstinence from the actions of the Spears sisters...

However, I'm finding it hard to see the personal damages done to you or anyone else. You say that "there is too much media hype about Jamie Lynn's pregnancy" but you give no justification as to why there is too much. Maybe there is too much media hype...but why is that a problem?
*Eventually I will turn this argument against you...saying that this media attention in fact helps you become the "moral" person or whatever you claim to want to be. The fact that you see this in the media makes you resent it more.

If you would like to speak on that...fine...we can debate that.

My main point that I would like to make in this debate is your Ressentiment.
Although you may not notice it, you seem to have the Socratic ideal embedded into your thoughts. While completely embracing the Apollonian elements of life, you seem to completely ignore the Dionysian elements that make the universe whole. Who are you to tell someone that they can't have sex when they are 16? There Mother doesn't have to be that person either.
This is a classic case of what Friedrich Nietzsche terms Ressentiment and this will be my key point in this debate. The negation of life itself cannot help you win a debate.

On a side note, I will argue birth control to be an ineffective means of achieving your ideal.

Thanks.
Debate Round No. 1
megan91509

Pro

Well, I would like to congratulate you on finding no flaws in the parenting of these two girls. In actuality I have no "resentment" towards the media or a problem with 16 year olds who have sex. Actually, nowhere in my first passage did I ever state I was abstinent; I just merely stated I accept responsibility for my actions, and the repercussions my actions yield. I personally, just think it is a bad idea to put these girls on the news and the covers of magazines with their stories, because inevitably many young girls see it as an okay thing for them to do. I am not telling 16 year olds or anyone they can't have sex, if they are emotionally ready for that. Somehow, I can't help but think with a more guided childhood they could have salvaged a life of normalcy.
Sadly, I have a close friend who is 2 months younger than I, and she just gave birth to a daughter, who she has decided to keep. I have no problem with her or what she's done, but the fact of the matter is, her parents are irresponsible people. They don't care about what she is doing or who she with, or when she'll be back. Jamie Lynn's mom was aware that her daughter and her daughters much older 19 year old boyfriend were living in the same house. She did nothing and had no problem with this as a parent. I ask you, is that a responsible thing for a parent to do? Is it? I don't know if you have kids or plan on having kids, but it is a parent's job to create a healthy and safe environment for their children. The fact of the matter is Lynn Spears (the mother) is not a responsible parent. I see no way; you can justify her actions as a mother. She failed as a mother. No, it might not be the end of the world for Jamie Lynn, but if they didn't make millions off their Spears' family overrated talents, she would be having a tougher time with life.
My friend who just had the baby is having trouble finishing school, working to support her baby, and finding the father of her baby who is in hiding because he has a warrant out for his arrest for statutory rape, because he is over 18. Jamie Lynn Spear's is showing young girls how easy it is to get pregnant at 16 and still have a decent quality of life.
ABNYU

Con

So let me get this right…you aren't saying that you are abstinent but you will say that you take responsibility for your actions.

"I'm so proud of her for stepping up and being courageous and taking responsibility for her choices, and I believe she's being a good role model – a good role model in that situation, to choose to have the baby, and I am supportive of her in that situation."

-Lisa Whelchel of The Facts of Life, Jamie Lynn's pregnancy

I guess we aren't talking about Jamie Lynn here because she has obviously taken responsibility for her actions. Lots of people have unplanned pregnancies.

You also say that they key problem is bad parenting. You speak about your friend who has "parents [that] are irresponsible people" and that made sense. I'm not going to argue that one's parents have a significant impact on someone's life. However, I will argue that Lynn Spears' choices aren't made for you, your friends, or anyone else except for her own daughters. If they are multi-millionaires…they are going to live like multi-millionaires. For some reason I get the feeling you resent that…

"…but if they didn't make millions off their Spears' family overrated talents, she would be having a tougher time with life"

Undoubtedly true…but hopeful on your behalf

Once again…I will say that only way that Lynn Spears has affected your life is by making you more of the person you want to be. The fact that you even made this topic proves my point. Otherwise you would not add to the gross amount media coverage of the Spears sisters.

Britney Spears has opened the eyes of many people in the United States.
People say… "I'm not going to be like Britney" and that is fair and decent. However, another point of mine is that nobody can be like Britney. None of you have ever known what it is like to start as a child phenom, grow up in that era and become who Britney is today. None of you can claim that you would have had better judgment.
I think that the majority of Americans have heard of Britney Spears from the media and if they don't know much…they do know that they don't want to be like her.

Also, I would like to expand on my Nietzsche argument. You have still not shown me how you avoid this. The actions of the Spears sisters are inherent conditions of life under the spotlight…it just seems like you can't handle it.
Debate Round No. 2
megan91509

Pro

Well said, but the whole point of this argument was to point out the fact that the Spears sisters are screwed up because of how they were raised.

You strengthened that part of my argument when you said:

"You speak about your friend who has "parents [that] are irresponsible people" and that made sense. I'm not going to argue that one's parents have a significant impact on someone's life. However, I will argue that Lynn Spears' choices aren't made for you, your friends, or anyone else except for her own daughters."

Never did I state that Lynn Spear's choices are made for me or anyone besides Britney and Jamie Lynn. I just feel like some parents these days aren't living up to the standards they should and that is ruining youths. Lynn Spears to me is a perfect example. She saw the grotesque amount of money Britney made in early childhood, which undoubtedly fueled her desire to keep Britney famous and Jamie Lynn, too. Her irresponsible decisions ruined her daughters.

Another important point you mentioned:

"People say… "I'm not going to be like Britney" and that is fair and decent."

Yes, I am sure many people say this try to live their life by this. Then you must consider the younger naive people that see them as these really cool famous people that can do whatever they want. The intelligent mature people can recognize the error in the Spears' ways, but I have little faith in the Hollywood-obsessed naive pre-teens. Overall, the family sets a bad example for people everywhere and there is no arguing that.
ABNYU

Con

I'll concede that Lynn's parenting influenced the lives of her children.

Megan91509 will try to make it seem that she has won this debate just because of this. There is no question that things would be different if Lynn had made different choices.
However, I believe that the media will also shape their lives as well. Everyone shapes the life of Britney Spears. She has to go through emotional stress because of people like you. While I am not an advocate of her actions...I certainly wouldn't judge her for them. She was put in a very unique situation that NONE of you can relate to.

Megan also states that pre-teens will be affected by the actions of Britney Spears. This is true to some extent. But I argue that Britney has hit such a low that nobody could possibly see her as a role model. As far as Jamie Lynn is concerned...she actually is a role model. That argument was conceded by Megan. That was evidence that I provided...and Megan ignored it.

I would also like to point out that Nietzsche has not been refuted and still stands. You can look back on my other rounds to see how that works in this debate. I hope some of you will look at it.

Look here when voting:

Although Megan has made some good points...lets look to the topic.

"Britney Spears is screwed up and Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant because of poor parenting..."

Some of you may look at this and vote before looking to my arguments. That would be a big mistake. I have turned all of the arguments against megan that she has brought up. I will maintain the fact that the actions of Britney Spears sets an example of what not to do for everyone. Jamie Lynn has already learned from this and takes full responsibility just as megan would like her to. However, Megan did not refute this...in fact...she completely ignored it.
I would ask all of you to look at the real cause of the status quo. You may find that all of us have something to do with the Britney Spears we have come to know today. The media coverage and resentment towards Britney Spears and her family is something that none of us can really even imagine. However, I think I can say that maybe everyone is a little "better" for it.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by audraxheartsxyou 6 years ago
audraxheartsxyou
Actually you can.

I can't think of another reason for poor choices, besides peer pressure.
Posted by polishgirlinar 6 years ago
polishgirlinar
You can't really blame poor choices on bad parenting...
Posted by teev 6 years ago
teev
this was not a competition abnyu is way to good for her, but good try. all props to abnyu
Posted by griffinisright 6 years ago
griffinisright
This was a pretty close debate for both of you But I think I got to go with Megan on this one!
Posted by gonovice 6 years ago
gonovice
I agree with ABNYU, not only for the facts but he gave a ten times better argument.
Posted by ABNYU 6 years ago
ABNYU
I will take a wild guess and say that you didn't read the actual debate.
Posted by shelbih 6 years ago
shelbih
britney has been screwed up ever since she married that kevin federline or whatever.
Posted by ABNYU 6 years ago
ABNYU
The Nietzsche argument isn't just about the good and the bad...it is about accepting the good and the bad as inherent conditions of life.

Megan didn't do that...she doesn't win Nietzsche.
Posted by killa_connor 6 years ago
killa_connor
Can't vote! I feel like Megan did refute ABNYU's Nietzsche argument because she introduced the notion of a "good parent" (and their hypothetical behavior) as an objective measure of comparison. She also established an example of a "bad parent" (one of her friends moms) and was able to equate it to the parenting style of Jamie Lynn's parents. ABNYU did point out that these kinds of judgments are all relative but didn't attack her "good parent" or "bad parent" models with the kind of strength I was expecting.

Hah sorry, dont think I'm going to vote on this one.
Posted by SolaGratia 6 years ago
SolaGratia
Good arguments on both sides. I didn't vote ;)
37 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by lacanrox 6 years ago
lacanrox
megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by MarxistKid 6 years ago
MarxistKid
megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by Vols21 6 years ago
Vols21
megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by vtotheron 6 years ago
vtotheron
megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by Murphy_is_Law 6 years ago
Murphy_is_Law
megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by kibbles 6 years ago
kibbles
megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by chel 6 years ago
chel
megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by polishgirlinar 6 years ago
polishgirlinar
megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by RMK 6 years ago
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megan91509ABNYUTied
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Vote Placed by Hoyt13 6 years ago
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megan91509ABNYUTied
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