The Instigator
mortimor
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
BrooklynHaze
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

Bullies should receive much harsher punishment

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
BrooklynHaze
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/7/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,342 times Debate No: 32212
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (7)

 

mortimor

Pro

Bullies in grade school can torment an individual to the point of the victim wanting to commit suicide or actually going through with it. Most bullies get suspended for a few days, or simply get a slap on the wrist and have to go to the principal's office. Bullying continues because the situations aren't handled correctly and their punishments are not as severe as they need to be. I feel in some instances, bullies should be permanently expelled from the school or spend some nights in a jail cell.
Tell me why such harsh punishments are overkill and what type of punishments should be given in specific situations.
BrooklynHaze

Con

I thank mortimor for the chance to do a debate.

Argument: Bullies should receive much harsher punishment
Assuming my opponent means the following definition
#Bullying - is the use of force or coercion to abuse or intimidate others.

I as Con acknowledge my duty is to argue that bullies should not receive much harsher punishment, but instead the actions of a bully should be sought to understood, then action taken accordingly.

I recede to hear of Con's beginning arguments.

Out of my own compile to answer your question:
Punishments are only solutions to symptoms and usually never the cause. Understand that although no one likes bully's they exist for a reason. By psychological means (2), humans have determined that where there is parental neglect, ignorance, and absence are present, so are troubled kids/teens/adults who are emotionally scarred or disturbed.
Those persons have more likelihood of being less empathetic, as a defensive mechanism to cope and more inclined to be hurtful towards others mostly using seemingly socially accepted bias and other ways to upset and hurt others, few unknowingly.
Those with lack of empathy, depending on life situation(s) and experience, see it as normal to hurt and not care of the victims feelings (as they have been hurt before, to them its normal), usually accredited to being unwanted or unloved. Try to understand why they do as they do, then see that no one is giving a S*** to teach parents how not neglect their child and abuse them psychologically.
The seemingly only logical answer is to tell humans who are ignorant to the repercussions of poor decisions with their kids.
This is not the only road someone can take because of parental failure. It can result in homeless person, prostitute, imprisonment and a variety of reasons and factors for personal failure unless they accomplish catharsis.

(1)Bullying - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." 2004. 8 Apr. 2013
(2)http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
mortimor

Pro

Hi Brooklyn,

Thank you for accepting.

I agree with everything you said. However, I was focused on whether or not bullies should receive harsher punishments and not focused on how a bully comes to be/exist. I, for one, do not sympathize with a bully who hurts others. I feel bad that they may have a terrible environment at home and awful parent(s). However, that is never justification to let out all your rage and negative emotions on another innocent person. This is why counselors and psychologists exist. These bullies who refuse to stop their torture tactics can talk to these people and receive help, such as alternative ways to express and release their negative emotions, not on an innocent being. Bullying will never stop if everybody justifies their actions by blaming it on their lack of parenting and poor home environment. Counseling, combined with harsher punishment, will eventually get it through the bully's head that what he or she is doing to others is completely unacceptable and wrong. As we know, bullying isn't simply limited to verbal abuse. A lot of it is physical abuse too. I don't care if they are 13 years old in 7th grade.. if a bully jumps a kid in the hallway and starts punching him throwing him around and kicking him while he's down, that's called aggravated assault, which is a felony. Seeing as how under aged kids aren't going to get felonies, they deserve more than a 7 day suspension and getting yelled at by a principal. If this kid was 5 years older, he'd be in prison for 5 years. This kid is young, in his mind, he is being rewarded.. " Oh yay! I don't have to go to school for 7 days! " If I keep hurting people I get vacations. Instead of suspension, throw the kid in a local county jail cell for 5 nights. Let's see how he reacts to that. I can guarantee he'll be much less likely to hurt people when he gets out of a cell, as opposed to getting a 7 day vacation at his house. God forbid, he comes back and continues punching and kicking, now he's got 7 days in a cell. This is no over reaction. Kids need to be taught from a young age what is right and wrong. The sooner you have young bullies sleeping in a cell, the sooner they will realize they hate being in a cell, the more likely it is they will stop bullying, the less likely it is they grow up to be a full-time bullying criminal.
BrooklynHaze

Con

You say that a harsher punishment will allow the bully to learn that their actions are not acceptable. That is probably how they're going to see it. What they will probably miss is why they're doing it, and could invent another way to hurting people that does not end up getting caught as easily.

What I mean by this, is that there's reason their being a bully, and that hasn't stopped just because they got suspended or went to jail for a bit. So harsher punishments are likely not to work in the long run. (1 & 2)

As an example, a common reason for a bully to bully, is parental neglect (a passive yet powerful form of child abuse sometimes used as disciplinary action), most adults will tell you those that crave attention must've hardly had any from their parents, and sadly they're right.
Most kids who are neglected from their parents tend to cause havoc to get attention (4&6), and the more neglected they are, the more they'll act out to receive attention whether it's good or bad. This would accredit to being suspended for 7 days, it's good in the sense maybe they'll get more attention with more time at home, and not in the sense they'll have less school.

To back this up a bit, I'll tell you of the opposite. I knew a girl who hated being home because of verbal abuse she received at home, so everyday not only was she a hard working student, she'd stay after school every chance she got to have an excuse to not go home immediately after school. Staying after school was no longer allowed the next school year, simply because the vast number of kids that stayed after without giving reason, so she migrated to the local fast food shop and stayed there after school for the remainder of the year. So you can imagine, that the only way to solve these problems of hating ones own house, or that of a bully seeking grand attention will simply brush off their time in disciplinary custody if their mistreatment or emotions are gone unchecked.

In conclusion, harsher punishments will not solve the problem of the emotionally conflicted individual, but maybe helping them sort out their problems and any crime equivalent punishment would do just fine.

(1) http://www.crimeinamerica.net...
(2) http://toolboxparent.com...
(3) http://psychcentral.com...

(6) and all
Anyone wanting a more "professional" outlook
choice http://www.nber.org...
direct http://www.nber.org...
Debate Round No. 2
mortimor

Pro

That is all good information.

I still stand by what I said in the previous round. Two times I stated that the harsher punishment should be in combination with the bully talking with a counselor and psychologist. You stated in your closing of round 2 :

"In conclusion, harsher punishments will not solve the problem of the emotionally conflicted individual, but maybe helping them sort out their problems and any crime equivalent punishment would do just fine."

The counselors and psychologists help them sort out their problems. The punishment is for the acts they carried out on an innocent person.

I'm well aware of why a person becomes a bully. I'm still seeking reasons why harsh punishments are overkill.
Giving me the reasons of how a kid becomes a bully is not telling me why spending a week in a jail cell is too harsh of punishment.
BrooklynHaze

Con

Their overkill for the simple reason that they will have no real effect on the psyche, as I said and sourced, it will only be a temporary solution to a permanent problem unless dealt with accordingly. So basically any punishment before catharsis is useless, no matter the change in severity.

Not much else I can say, but it would be pointless.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by AriellaSoulliere 3 years ago
AriellaSoulliere
Bullies are just like gnats. They're annoying, stupid, and they follow you everywhere. But, in some cases bullying gets way too extreme to the point of young kids killing themselves. People are sick. Why would you make fun of someone when your not at all perfect. Only god can judge.
Posted by BrooklynHaze 3 years ago
BrooklynHaze
Actually no, not one of my arguments was to sympathize with anyone, nor did it justify anyone's actions.

I clarified that harshness is irrelevant as it would have no effect in the long run, and I supported this reason with evidence that only educating bullies to their actions and why would have better chance than harsher punishments at correcting someones actions that are unacceptable to you.

You clearly missed the point of my arguments if that's the picture you paint with my portions of the debate.
Posted by mortimor 3 years ago
mortimor
I'm not sure how great of reading comprehension skills you voters have but I'll just inform you on something you clearly all missed:

Every argument he gave talked about how and why a bully becomes a bully and they should be sympathized for and their actions justified. That's not what the debate was about. It was about why sitting in a jail cell is too harsh. He only gave two sentences throughout the debate that talked about it. It wasn't until the debate was over that he started touching on the actual topic in his comments. Learn to read please. Thanks.
Posted by BrooklynHaze 3 years ago
BrooklynHaze
Last self willed comment, the only purpose harsher punishment will serve will be adhere to the sadistic nature of those who will it be.

Those who are bullied usually grow a hatred to the bully and wishes to see them hurt, making you no different from the bully.
Posted by BrooklynHaze 3 years ago
BrooklynHaze
Don't give in just yet.

It's people like such who think punishments work that ruin more and more humans every day. Permanently isolating them from society and giving them no hope, in turn hating you more.
I'm one who was bullied before, but at least I have the maturity to forgive those that were the bullies and maybe to this day still more troubled than I.
Until childish outlooks such as harsher punishments is matured, there will always be crime and the need for monopolistic prisons who incarcerate anything that walks into a damn court room.

This was a rant.
Posted by BrooklynHaze 3 years ago
BrooklynHaze
Most prisoners go back to prison, how does that not prove harsher punishments don't work. I have family that was incarcerated. What irritated him the most was how hopeless those people where because all people did to them, was just throw them in jail or in some area of discipline. No matter the punishment....I give. On my next debate I'll make my point as clear as reversed osmosis water.
Posted by mortimor 3 years ago
mortimor
Can what change? The punishment once it's been given to the bully?
Posted by loveu157 3 years ago
loveu157
to be clear can they change or no
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Misterscruffles 3 years ago
Misterscruffles
mortimorBrooklynHazeTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Brooklyn's arguments were more well founded and more well sourced than Mort's, especially in the second round.
Vote Placed by Lordknukle 3 years ago
Lordknukle
mortimorBrooklynHazeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Countering last two votes. Still need one more counter.
Vote Placed by SavedByChrist94 3 years ago
SavedByChrist94
mortimorBrooklynHazeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Bullies can't go away scott free, Especially the ones who aren't sorry, if sorry they receive punishment as a lesson to never do it again.
Vote Placed by thedebatekid 3 years ago
thedebatekid
mortimorBrooklynHazeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I felt mortimors argument was much better than BH's.
Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
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Reasons for voting decision: Con wins this debate due to the fact that he makes better arguements and with the fact that they're source backed makes it a decent debate instead of 2 people ranting and raving.
Vote Placed by OberHerr 3 years ago
OberHerr
mortimorBrooklynHazeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Counter the horrible RFD. Will swap back once Jdog adds a good RFD, or removes his vote.
Vote Placed by jdog2016 3 years ago
jdog2016
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Reasons for voting decision: Good Job