Bullying in school and why I'm for it

Ok this is my first debate so I might as well start off strong. I am debating on the healthy effects of bullying in school. Not many people that I know of share my opinion around where I live so I want to know what the Internet thinks. Well I'll start the actual debate now... I constantly find myself assaulted In the media by the image of a cruel person/group of people bullying someone who is different. this is almost always inevitably followed by the tragic story of a suicide as the media and family try to gather sympathy until a more interesting case comes up. This. Disgusts. Me. Deeply and personally see I was bullied when I was younger I know for a fact that it's very easy for seemingly "innocent" children to turn lord of the flies at a moments notice. No I don't like bullies most of them have crippling personality traits that ensure they'll sink like a stone when real life comes around. I'm short they are (mostly) bad people. However even tho I dislike them on a personal level I see the necessity of what they do. The bullies of a school prepare you for real life as much or more than a teacher or a friend. Simply because in the real world not everyone will be nice, not everyone will be or want to be your friend, and you'll always have to deal with people you don't get along with in a workplace. Bullies teach you how to deal with situations like that but some people are extremely offended by what I say for example if a teenager kills themselves because of bullying. Honestly I hold a great contempt for those people not because they didn't rebel but because they weren't even good enough to bear with it. Sickening... Truly I think that bullying related suicides are the perfect example of modern human natural selection, all those petty names bullies can call you or hurtful things bullies can say or even noses they can bloody. Those PALE in comparison to what the real world can do. School bullies can't throw you out of your house or shut off your electricity can they? In all likelihood if the young fools who ended their lives because of rude names or gestures wouldn't last a week with the stress of rent or mortgage.

Well I've presented my opener I'm still a little unsure how the site works but I implore you to comment or debate with me on this subject. Thank you for reading my arguement irregardless of whether you decide to debate or comment.

= Opening =
I must admit, this is a first for me to have the opportunity to debate some-one who legitimately supports bullying. That said, the fact that my opponent does support such a thing takes this debate to a completely different level; It means that this debate isn't one between two people of the same opinion, but a sincere clash of opinions.
I would also like to point out, that I as well have been bullied through my life-time, and I myself have considered suicide because of the bullying. Please note that this isn't an argument, I would never post a personal example as an argument, I simply wanted to point this out.

That said, I hereby make the statement; that bullying in school is an absolutely atrocious thing, to which there is no benefit.

= Arguments =
1. Mental Development-
My first argument will be that of mental development. For the sake of maximizing clash in this debate, I will assume that the realm of argumentation is restricted to the United States as both my opponent and I are Americans. From Examiner.com [1]"Brain research shows that the human brain goes through a slow maturation process between ages 10 through 25. The emotional make-up of a child is generally fully developed by age five... ...A Dartmouth College study reveals there is a significant shift in a person���‚��„�s brain after age 18, when the individual is emerging into young adulthood. The human brain reportedly becomes fully developed at age 25."
This point will easily extend across every area of this debate; first of it makes several constructive argument which only prove to strengthen the Con stance in this debate.

First, being that since these teenagers, and children's brains are not fully developed, their suicides are not fully rationalized nor thought through. to make such a claim that is sickens you that a child would kill themselves over this situation, is not only in and of itself a cruel and harsh statement; but it is invalid since these kids don't even have a full understanding of what they are doing.

Second, a person can only judge something based on what they know; meaning that a child or teenager who has lived in the same place their entire life, and who as been subjected to bullying their entire life, can only assume that their entire life will be that way. Factoring this in with the fact their brain has yet to fully develop enough completely weight the dire impact of their decision.

What we have to take this to mean, is not only the obvious fact that bullying is the cause of the loss of multiple human lives all around the world, but that also the impact my opponent tries to pull across (on bullying teach kids about "the real world) is invalid. First because it is an unjust assertion in regard to a person's mental development, second because in "the real world" people do not have to be subjugated to such treatment. Finally because the argument my opponent proposes is completely Nihilistic in the first place.

= Conclusion =
As of now I won't offer too many arguments, it would be too difficult for my opponent to respond otherwise. And since this is is only round one 1 I can't really ask for an Con vote just yet.
So I'll simply hand the debate back over to my opponent; here's to a fantastic round!

= Sources =
[1] http://www.examiner.com...

Thanks to my opponent for presenting me with an absolutely fantastic argument I see your logic (even if I disagree with it) and will attempt the best response that I can.

Well My first argument will tackle your first argument Mental Development now I will admit that has a huge impact on your decision making. This is illustrated time and time again by teenagers making impulsive or brash decisions and i can understand this I've done it and I see my friends do it constantly. However I think that a measure of a persons willpower is the ability to think through all of the hormones being pumped into your body. Another point I'd like to make about it is EVERYONE thinks of suicide at some point in life its natural curiosity we as humans feel the need dull pain or sadness. That does not mean however that all people who feel intense pain or sorrow should need to kill themselves. A great quote for this WHOLE debate would be "pressure causes some men to break and others to break records" I say all this in no way meaning offense to my opponent. At the same time saying anything other than what I've said would be betraying my opinions which is something I will never do. I also believe that our mental age and physical age can wilder differ take for example an American child and a child from a 3rd world country. Now I believe that the child from a third world country would be alot older mentally due to having actual life-threatening issues to think about. Instead of clothing or cars or one of our other petty concerns.

Now I will readily admit that very few people could see from the viewpoint of someone who's committed suicide due to bullying (for obvious reasons). Now another thing I'd like to say is that my opponents counterargument is completely wrong. People are subjugated everyday not only in America but worldwide not only in OUR time but since the dawn of man. What about Egypt and the Jews? Jesus and the Romans? not a big religious person? Civil Rights Movement? The Holocaust? Need a more recent example? Most Americans and Muslims! Saddam Hussein and the Kurds. I could literally make up an entire page of examples and those were just big examples, what about subjugation by an abusive parent or spouse! Or maybe just cruelty from a random stranger. Also this is not a nihilistic argument because nihilism is basically the advocation of anarchy or destruction. I support neither of these, I do not state anywhere in my argument that I support the absence of law nor the praise of destruction. I never said I don't think bullies should get away with their transgressions and I think the "bully" should be punished. My disagreement is more with the receivers reaction to the bullying.

Well I've made my argument the best that I can I'm truly sorry if I've made any misspelling or grammatical errors. Also thank you very much for an extremely challenging debate. I wish the best of luck to my opponent for his debate and all of you have a nice day.

= Opening =
I thank my opponent for their rebuttals!

As a brief road-map for what you can expect through-out the course of this debate, I will first present a few general arguments, I will then proceed to do a line by line of my opponent's case, and finally I will present a new argument before offering my conclusions of this round.
= Arguments=
PRO-
+ General arguments-
First, I would like to point out that my opponent's arguments are based completely on personal opinion.
Second, my opponent's lack of warrants or sourced evidence to back up their opinions.
And finally I would like to point out that their opinionated arguments do nothing to the effect of refuting the points I've presented thus far in this debate.

These three points should be extended throughout the debate on all areas and forefronts.

+ Specific arguments-
A1: "I think that a measure of a persons willpower is the ability to think through all of the hormones being pumped into your body"
R1: This argument does nothing to the effect of refuting mental development. It does however pose another constructive point for the Con; that being that teenagers and children along with not being fully mentally developed have to deal with hormonal imbalances.
Furthermore, there is no warrant here for this rebuttal on an argument I never made.

A2: "Another point I'd like to make about it is EVERYONE thinks of suicide at some point in life its natural curiosity we as humans feel the need dull pain or sadness. That does not mean however that all people who feel intense pain or sorrow should need to kill themselves."
R2: You're not covering the argument I'm making here whatsoever. While it is true that everyone thinks of suicide, not everybody considers suicide, and surely not everybody attempts suicide. The entirety of these statements are over-generalizations of the people in general based off of yourself.

A3: ""pressure causes some men to break and others to break records""
R3: children and teenagers aren't men, they're children and teenagers.

A4: "I also believe that our mental age and physical age can wilder differ take for example an American child and a child from a 3rd world country. Now I believe that the child from a third world country would be alot older mentally due to having actual life-threatening issues to think about. Instead of clothing or cars or one of our other petty concerns."
R4: Logically your argument may stand, but only on the surface. While you may have made a case for maturity, you've not proven anything on the grounds of mental development. Further more you offer no warrant for this claim in the first place; there is no reason to believe you in the first place as you only make a claim.

A5: ". Now another thing I'd like to say is that my opponents counterargument is completely wrong. People are subjugated everyday not only in America but worldwide not only in OUR time but since the dawn of man. What about Egypt and the Jews? Jesus and the Romans? not a big religious person? Civil Rights Movement? The Holocaust? Need a more recent example? Most Americans and Muslims! Saddam Hussein and the Kurds."
R5: And you're saying these are good things? You've only strengthened my argument all the more so. If you're going to compare these atrocities to bullying, than a simply logical syllogism makes a vote for the Pro impossible.

a. (insert all of the examples my opponent has presented) = Bullying
b. (insert all of the examples my opponent has presented = Bad
c. Bullying = Bad

A6: "Also this is not a nihilistic argument because nihilism is basically the advocation of anarchy or destruction. I support neither of these, I do not state anywhere in my argument that I support the absence of law nor the praise of destruction."
R6: First off, I would like to take a moment to extend my logical syllogism across. This disproves my opponent's initial claim. Second, it is in fact incredibly nihilistic as my opponent is advocating something he openly admits is bad, simply because it is something that occurs in "the real world".

CON-
+ Depression-
I feel as though this is a huge issue my opponent is missing entirely. Although depression is something that affects those of all age groups, the impact is something much much different when considering Children and Teenagers.
First as already prior noted their brains are not fully developed. Meaning that they do not have the capacity to fully deal with this wrenching emotion.
Furthermore, when depression a person's outlook changes completely. And becoming depressed is certainly the primary reaction of a child being bullied, their worldview is shaken, their self-respect destroyed, and their eyes darkened to any hope.
[2] "A child who used to play often with friends may now spend most of the time alone and without interests. Things that were once fun now bring little joy to the depressed child. Children and adolescents who are depressed may say they want to be dead or may talk about suicide. Depressed children and adolescents are at increased risk for committing suicide. Depressed adolescents may abuse alcohol or other drugs as a way of trying to feel better. "
"Early diagnosis and treatment are essential for depressed children. Depression is a real illness that requires professional help."
[3] "In England, 223,410 kids aged 11 and 16 were driven to the brink in the last 18 months. All because of being victims to bullying made their lives hell. 2.4 million kids which is 6 out of 10, have been bullied in the past 18 months. There"

= Conclusion =
Bullying in schools is an absolutely atrocious thing, that under no circumstance is ever warranted.
Bullying adversely effects the mental health of children and teens.
Bullying takes the lives of far too many children and teens annually.
Bullying perpetuates an endless cycle of nihilism and pain.

Further more, my opponent's only arguments to support bullying are baseless and directly based on his own opinions. He offers absolutely no reason to support such a heinous act, and instead makes arguments which only further the con stance.

I urge an Con vote in this debate.

= Sources =
[2] http://www.aacap.org...
[3] http://www.addicted.com...

Well this has been an excellent debate and I really honestly thank my opponent for offering his pointe if view. Not to mention actually having something to back it up with! I very intentionally made this debate knowing the lack of evidence in my favor merely to test my personal opinions weight (turns out they are very light!) I will simply submit this round knowing the odds are not in my favor and I will not ask for a pro vote. I for one an just having a blast with actually debating people more learned than me so that I may become well learned in turn. But enough of my pretentious ramblings. I'll simply use this round to defend some of the pointe ive made

First of all yes my points have been opinionated in the extreme I know this and honestly didn't even attempt looking up facts to support it. (if there are any to find) I would also try to say that I an by no
Means a wordsmith of any sort and have attempted to the best of my ability to dispute my opponents counter claims. Though I must admit my opinion in the subject has not changed I applaud my opponent for the points he made and if I hadn't already picked a side on this issue I might even be tempted to side pro based on his debate!

Hormones may not have been the best example of impulsiveness I could've written down but it was what I wrote and I'll defend it the best I can. mental development and hormones both have a large impact on decisions of youngsters now the only real point I'll relate between the two is that as the body grows older your thinking becomes clearer due to A: mental development and B: many hormones decrease in production as we age. now I believe that hormones have a great deal to factor into the thought process and as we age our minds (hopefully) become clearer.

I truly believe that an extremely large majority of people have considered suicide. Even if just for the briefest of moments I believe many many humans have considered ending it all, and yes this is based off of personal opinion my entire argument is I never stated that it was based on fact of any sort.

Yes this was an admittedly poor analogy especially when our context deals with humans who are not men at all but teens and children I apologize for adding a forced and unnecessary quote in my argument.

Again I never stated it was a fact merely a personal opinion that I hold. I also think that maturity would most likely be a large factor in decision making skills.

I never said it was right I said that acts of that nature happen everyday. It is only one of many harsh realities of the world we live in and the way I see it you have two options to consider you can either become a hitler, or a Stalin, or a Saddam. Or you can see men like these for what they are because denying a fact does not make it disappear. There has and always will be evil l, god has to have a devil etc etc.

Again I disagree that this argument is nihilistic I agree that bullying is bad but where I believe we truly disagree Is to whether it Is neccessary. Perhaps a better debate title would've been "the necessities of bullying" but I digress. If you truly want an answer I believe that bully's have a great purpose as an obstacle that people should need to overcome. My contempt is simply held for those who decide it's easier to give up than press on. Clearly someone who doesn't value their life enough to fight for it doesn't belong in our world. (and no I do not mean physically fight)

Depression is a serious thing and that's another thing that I believe many humans have felt that overwhelming sadness.The kind where you just know it's never going to get better I'm decently sure many of the people reading this article may have felt it in some way at some point. That still does not account for giving up part of being a human is struggling on when things are at their worst. Yes depression can lead to alcohol abuse, drug abuse, Suicide depression leads to many thing but only when you let it consume you when you let it eat at you like a maggot in a festering wound. No I'm not saying depression is a choice but giving up is definetly a choice and it's one I despise.

6/10 how many of those kids came back? Getting pushed to the brink isn't a choice either but once you get there you have an ultimatum let your antagonist guide you over the edge as you jump or push back. I think that those who push back those who return from that brink are outstanding for not letting the world defeat them... But those who let themselves be pushed over? I have no pity for them. As far as I'm concerned they are simply bodies to put in the ground and forgotten.

As for bullying taking lives...bullies don't kill them. The bullies dont load the gun or tie the noose that person the second they slip on that rope or stick that barrel to their head Thats deliberate. It's their own choice you could right down any number of facts, figures, or studies that say I'm wrong. But after all Is done which one pulls that trigger the bully or the victim?

I'll conclude my argument now with the fact that I did not use any other information for this debate other than what I already knew or believed. I'm not asking anyone for votes vote for whoever you think is right in the situation. I don't feel the need nor do I expect to win this debate but it has been a great one if I may be so bold. Many thanks to all of you especially my opponent who had given my mind enough to chew on for a few days. Also thanks to anyone who viewed or learned something from this formal exchang of ideas and facts.

I thank my opponent once again for this debate!

I will be brief here, and spare every-one the useless re-iteration of the round thus far.
I could reimply re-phrase all of my prior arguments in this round, as every single one of them still stands and extends across as an applicable argument.

My opponent himself said that he wasn't going to attempt to ask for a Pro vote, and openly admitted that his arguments where simply his personal opinions. This means that they are simply claims without warrant and are not even viable arguments.
This means that the entirety of my opponent's last round is also unviable as he has done the exact same thing. Made claims without any kind of warrant to back them up.

Finally before I conclude this round I would like to respond to one of my opponent's claims made as of last round.

"As for bullying taking lives...bullies don't kill them. The bullies dont load the gun or tie the noose that person the second they slip on that rope or stick that barrel to their head Thats deliberate. It's their own choice you could right down any number of facts, figures, or studies that say I'm wrong. But after all Is done which one pulls that trigger the bully or the victim?"

Simply put; for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. To say that the bullies are not to blame for this tradgedy, is to assume that the end reaction had no prior action. It astutely violates basic scientific law, and turns a blind eye to the abuse of children all over the world.

When we do not recognize the problem we can never solve the problem. We fall into nihlistic apathy, and simply try and make the claim that only the strongest deserve to survive. At that point we reject compassion, and all that defines our humanity. For that very reason there can be no other vote in this debate except for the Con.

Another great round from my opponent!

I refuse to offer proof of my arguments. The only thing I will offer as a reason you should believe my side is any logic you can gather from reading my opinions. If you get a new look on an age old topic from either me or my opponent then I'll consider this a successful debate. My opinions on this subject have not been changed however my opponent has presented an extremely viable stance on the subject and I applaud him for it. I digress... As for the actual debate I'm with my opponent on not rehashing old arguments. The only things I'll add in is the point my opponent made about the scientific law... "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" this is a fact in dealing with physical things. But I don't think it would neccasarily apply to this situation. I propose that bullies push "victims" to the edge but only the victim chooses to jump off (metaphorically speaking). As for the argument about a lack of compassion I would agree that I have on I feel no pity for these so called "victims" they simply didn't make the cut. Many people would regard this as inhuman like my opponent. Unfortunately I'm human my opponent is human and the argument of a loss of humanity is not applicable here or anywhere. Hitler was just as human as ghandi and evil is just as human as good.

I'll end my part in this debate on that note I've lain my cards out for all to see this has been an absolutely wonderful debate and I thank all involved.

"The only things I'll add in is the point my opponent made about the scientific law... "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" this is a fact in dealing with physical things. But I don't think it would neccasarily apply to this situation. I propose that bullies push "victims" to the edge but only the victim chooses to jump off (metaphorically speaking)."

I'll use this last round to cover this point.
My opponent admits that bullies push their victims to the edge. That's not true, they don't just push them to the edge and stop; the push them all the way over. A bully doesn't stop picking on their victim once they've felt the victim has "had enough" they keep pushing, and picking.
The moment that a child has taken so much grief that they decided death would be better; that is not a personal conviction, or an inward desire that drive them to pull the trigger, swallow the pills, or jump off the building. It is the image, the thought, the memory of the one who drove them to that point which kills them.

In the end even if we want to have solely logical argument, even if we want to look at this issue in a larger scope than just in school; there is absolutely no excuse for bullying. There is never a reason or a justification for on person violating the security of person of another; Whether physically, emotionally, or mentally, bullying kills.

I won't bother asking for a vote in this round, the warrant for the Con has already been show throughout the previous rounds. Instead I will simply offer my mournful condolences at my opponent's steadfast affirmation of such a terrible thing.