The Instigator
Inquistive
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
DarthVitiosus
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Burqas should not be banned in Western countries

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Inquistive
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/11/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 813 times Debate No: 66837
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

Inquistive

Pro

France and Belgium have already banned the Islamic covering called a burqa. Now other Western countries are considering doing the same. But if they were to be banned, it would mean many women would not have the freedom to wear what they please for religious purposes.

Many say the burqa is oppressive, but frankly, in these countries a women has a choice whether or not to wear it. She is not forced by law to wear it. But when you ban the burqa, you then actually end up oppressing women more. Now a Muslim woman cannot wear the covering she wants. You've taken away her freedom to do so.

Women wearing burqas often do not mind showing their face to a female officer, bank teller, etc. to confirm her identity. Anything you can hide in a burqa you can hide in baggy clothing. The burqa puts the woman in no harm, it actually protects her.

She is protected from the elements, ridicule and harassment. The burqa is seen as empowering to some women in Western culture.

The number of women who actually wore the burqa in France was in the 300's. With such a small number, how is that a threat that needs so much effort? The burqa is not oppressive or unsafe. It should not be banned.
DarthVitiosus

Con

I as Con will argue the burqa should be banned.

DEFINITIONS & ASSOCIATIONS:


Burqa:"A loose, usually black or light blue robe that is worn by Muslim women, especially in Afghanistan, and that covers the body from head to toe[1]."

[1]http://www.thefreedictionary.com...


INTRODUCTION & PREMISES:
The burqa is a tool for domestic abuse as I will show below. In the West, the burqa should be banned without question.

ARGUMENTS:
#1 The Burqa is a Tool of Oppression:
The primary point of the burqa is to hide physical abuse. I will show not only that the burqa is problematic in Afghanistan but I will also the abusive treatment of women in Islam. The point of the burqa is to hide abuse in Afghanistan and other places where the burqa is worn. If the burqa is religious that is more incentive for it to be banned without question. If we look at the figures below of Muslim majority countries where domestic violence goes unreported, we must come to the conclusion that Muslims condone or embrace domestic violence. Let us not be confused by my opponent's rhetoric hiding behind freedom. My opponent put the petty claim that women are "protected from the elements, ridicule and harassment." Which is worse to be ridiculed and harassed or to be physically beaten often within the home you live? Ridicule and harassment will never produce the fear that a physical beating does.

Afghanistan:"an overwhelming majority of women, 87.2%, experienced at least one form of physical, sexual or psychological violence or forced marriage[1]"

[1]http://section15.ca...

Algeria:"More than 1,000 sexual assaults on women are recorded per year in Algeria , according to the National Gendarmerie services. Experts say that these figures do not reflect the reality because many victims do not reveal what is considered to be a “shameful crime” in Algerian society in which Islam is the religion of almost all of the Algerian people.[2]"

[2]http://www.afrik-news.com...

Iraq:"Out of the total number, 77 women were seriously burned, 26 were victims of murder or attempted murder and 25 were cases of questionable suicide[3]"

"The WHO study found that 21 percent of Iraqi women – out of the country's population of 30,747,000 – reported being victims of domestic violence in a survey taken in 2006 and 2007, the latest data available[4]."

[3]http://www.fgmnetwork.org...;
[4]http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Qatar: "Qatar has no law specifically criminalizing domestic violence, and the government currently publishes no data on incidents of domestic violence.[5]"

[5]http://www.hrw.org...

Saudi Arabia:"There are no reliable statistics regarding domestic abuse in Saudi Arabia, and it is probable that the vast majority of cases go unreported, given the isolation of victims and difficulty of reporting and seeking redress. Saudi women and migrant domestic workers who report violations such as rape sometimes face counteraccusations of fornication, leaving them open to criminal prosecution. Parents can pursue criminal prosecutions against their dependents on the charge of `uquq, or “parental disobedience.[6]”

[6]http://www.hrw.org...

If so many women suffer from so much under reported domestic violence in Muslim countries, it definitely should not be considered acceptable in any western country to wear the burqa since it is a tool to hide oppression and violence and an excuse to beat women and get away with it. Some of these Muslims countries don't even have laws to combat domestic violence. The facts don't lie but people do. It clearly is not an expression of freedom but an expression of oppression and domestic violence.
Debate Round No. 1
Inquistive

Pro

The burqa may hide signs of domestic abuse but ultimately, can't long sleeves conceal scars and bruises? As for the face, can't makeup? If you were to ban burqas for that reason, then you should as well ban anything else that could conceal the violence. We are talking about Western countries, not Saudi Arabia, Qatar or Afghanistan. Yes, there may be violence and women are oppressed in those counties because they have no choice but in Western culture, you should have a choice Taking away the freedom of being able to wear what you want to express your feelings and religion should be your choice.

The burqa is meant to protect a woman from the elements and perverted eyes. Not to hide abuse. People may have brought that on in Islamic countries but that is not it's true purpose. Abuse can be hidden in many ways. The burqa was not proposed to hide away abuse, it was meant to conceal and protect. And some women find that empowering in Western countries. Yes, women are oppressed and hurt in other countries but that is not the topic of this debate. I will completely agree with you that it can be oppressing and used to hide abuse but in Western countries, a woman should have the choice.

As for Islam condoning abuse, if you read the Qur'an then you would know that Muslims are extremely against abuse and hurt. People who try to say that women are nothing in Islam are ignorant. Islam gave women the right to vote thousands of year before Western civilizations did. Islam understands a woman, as well as all human beings deserve to be treated kindly and peacefully no matter what. people who try to pass of as true Muslims and kill in the name of Allah are not living by Islam.

Burqas should not be banned in Western civilizations.
DarthVitiosus

Con

"The burqa may hide signs of domestic abuse but ultimately, can't long sleeves conceal scars and bruises? As for the face, can't makeup? If you were to ban burqas for that reason, then you should as well ban anything else that could conceal the violence. "

It is not the clothing that is the problem. The problem is with the people who wear burqas, Muslims. In the West, is domestic violence ignored? No. People are are encouraged in the West to get away from their abusers. That is not the case in Muslim countries. Many Muslims come to Western countries and they should not be allowed to practice the same way as they did in Muslim countries. The burqa should be banned.

"We are talking about Western countries, not Saudi Arabia, Qatar or Afghanistan."

Those are Muslim countries. Is it not Muslims who wear burqas? Are there Muslim men that beat Muslim women? Do Muslim women report domestic violence? Simply, "Yes" or "No" questions.

"Yes, there may be violence and women are oppressed in those counties because they have no choice but in Western culture, you should have a choice Taking away the freedom of being able to wear what you want to express your feelings and religion should be your choice."

No, there shouldn't be a choice when it is well known that domestic violence is prevalent in Muslim majority areas. The West, should not tolerate the wife beaters by allowing them to hide their wives' bruises and cuts. To even attempt to defend the practice of wife beating is abhorrent.

"The burqa is meant to protect a woman from the elements and perverted eyes. "

How is it protecting women when they are getting physically beaten by their husbands and the burqas hide the cuts and bruises? How do you think the father or the brothers or the cousins of that woman behave if they saw the physical damages dealt to her?

"People may have brought that on in Islamic countries but that is not it's true purpose.....The burqa was not proposed to hide away abuse, it was meant to conceal and protect. "

Intentions don't matter as well as the purpose of it doesn't matter. What matters is how it is used.

"And some women find that empowering in Western countries."

I will believe what the Muslim women in the West have to say when they are not threatened to be beaten by Muslim men. Until then, there is no point about empowerment because domestic violence is prevalent amongst Muslims and it is underreported.

"I will completely agree with you that it can be oppressing and used to hide abuse but in Western countries, a woman should have the choice."

There is no choice when it really is coercion.

"As for Islam condoning abuse, if you read the Qur'an then you would know that Muslims are extremely against abuse and hurt. People who try to say that women are nothing in Islam are ignorant. Islam gave women the right to vote thousands of year before Western civilizations did. slam understands a woman, as well as all human beings deserve to be treated kindly and peacefully no matter what. people who try to pass of as true Muslims and kill in the name of Allah are not living by Islam."

We don't pave roads based on intentions. We pave roads based on the materials we have. The Qur'an does condone abuse. read Sura 4:34, "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand[1]."

[1]http://quran.com...

Men have a right to be over women as well as tell them what to do in Islam? Is that not right? Last I checked, it was in southern Iraq, where the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant killed Sunni women for trying to vote and attempting to get an education. Last I checked, it was in the hills of Northeastern Afghanistan where women were beat severely for even attempting to educate themselves. Last I checked it was in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood tried to forsake Gamal Nasser by telling him to force women to wear the hijab.There is nothing free about any of these.
Debate Round No. 2
Inquistive

Pro

Again, we are talking about Western countries here, my opponent is persistent to include things that happen in Eastern countries when that is irrelevant to the topic. People should have the choice to express their own beliefs and not be judged or assume the purpose is terrible.

Yes, Muslim women are beaten by Muslim men but the burqa is not there to hide it in all cases. Yes, it may hide it but ultimately, if a woman is abused she should come out and say it. Many women are beaten and hide it for fear or being ridiculed or shunned and they're not Muslim. Being Muslim doesn't mean it's automatically happening.

Some Orthodox Jewish women shave their heads and wear a wig when they get married. I would see that in a way oppressing and making the man have more power but why don't we ban that action? Because it's one's own choice in belief and action. Your personal beliefs or fears should not dictate the lives of others. If you face it, men have been controlling over women for thousands of years. Men have beat women for years and hidden it, why are we focusing on it now?

Because of Islamophobia and people being too scared and blind. People just want to make up excuses to get rid of what they fear. We all do it. If it's such a big issue, why address it now? Because people are scared. Not being able to see the woman's face makes them uncomfortable and they want to ban something that is of no harm to anyone. A burqa hiding a abuse is not the fault of the burqa but of the man beating a woman.
DarthVitiosus

Con

My opponent has made these debate about freedom. It is not about freedom. I say this debate is about Muslims and domestic violence. Muslims do have a tendency to ignore domestic violence. My opponent has not refuted that once in this debate. He knows he can't either. Instead he keeps saying what happens in Muslims countries is irrelevant to this debate. But this is simply not true. The Muslim countries are representatives of Muslim majorities. The Muslim communities in the West would engage in the same actions. The burqa allows domestic violence to prevail.

"Yes, Muslim women are beaten by Muslim men but the burqa is not there to hide it in all cases. Yes, it may hide it but ultimately, if a woman is abused she should come out and say it"

How can a woman who lives in fear come out and say anything? Women who suffer from domestic violence often attempt to keep it to themselves out of fear of retirbution. How does the Muslim community handle domestic violence? As I have shown, they don't handle it. They ignore it.

"Many women are beaten and hide it for fear or being ridiculed or shunned and they're not Muslim.Some Orthodox Jewish women shave their heads and wear a wig when they get married.I would see that in a way oppressing and making the man have more power but why don't we ban that action? Because it's one's own choice in belief and action."

This is a deflection tactic. We are discussing Muslims, not anyone else. It is Muslims who ignore domestic violence. This is a strong tendency that can not be denied no matter how much my opponent wishes to ignore it. notice, how he clearly states, Orthodox Jewish women shave their own heads. How is that relavent to the topic at hand? We are talking about situations where abusive husbands attack their weak wives.

"Your personal beliefs or fears should not dictate the lives of others. If you face it, men have been controlling over women for thousands of years. Men have beat women for years and hidden it, why are we focusing on it now?"


Why are we focusing on it now? Simply put, it is unacceptable in the West to beat women now. It would seem my opponent is intent on rationalizing domestic violence or ignoring it. It is not a matter of my beliefs, it is the tendency of Muslim men to beat women and get away with it. In the West, we find this unacceptable.

"Because of Islamophobia and people being too scared and blind. People just want to make up excuses to get rid of what they fear. We all do it. If it's such a big issue, why address it now? Because people are scared. Not being able to see the woman's face makes them uncomfortable and they want to ban something that is of no harm to anyone. A burqa hiding a abuse is not the fault of the burqa but of the man beating a woman."

My opponent is attempting to throw more petty distractions. We are attempting to address it now because Muslims are migrating more to the West. How can we deal with a problem that before that was non-existent and inconsequential?

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Rubikx 2 years ago
Rubikx
InquistiveDarthVitiosusTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Both arguments where strong, but Con focused almost entirely on abuse in non-western countries. Which wasn't the topic of the debate. So ultimately my vote goes to Pro.
Vote Placed by TheNamesFizzy 2 years ago
TheNamesFizzy
InquistiveDarthVitiosusTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: I found Cons arguments pretty interesting, but ultimately, not very convincing. The argument laid on the presumption that because A is discriminated against in one country with this clothing than therefore, no one can wear it anywhere. It doesn't really hold a lot of ground for me. Pro, on the other hand, upheld Freedom and laid his foundation on that value, which was pretty effective.