The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
futurepast05
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

But why would god kill innocent children when it's the grown-ups who were acting stupid?

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
futurepast05
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/5/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 473 times Debate No: 103429
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (26)
Votes (1)

 

backwardseden

Pro

A 10 year old daughter asked of her father, leaving him dumbfounded and will with you as well, that is if you have a conscious, unlike nearly all who are religious and believe in god... "But why would god kill innocent children when it's the grown-ups who were acting stupid?" Actually why would god kill or send his armies to kill........... period? If god is god, there would be no need or requirement for killing. And since he can kill, why doesn’t he, rather than man having do his dirty work for him? After all, god most certainly did kill a lot in the old testament. Then POOF, he suddenly stopped and he suddenly had no more armies to kill for him. So tell me god, with all your wisdom of mass killing, why did you suddenly stop?

Roughly 9 million children under the age of 5 die every single year due to famine, disease, war, abuse or whatever. So where is YOUR god to protect them in which children should be protected? That's one precious child every 3 1/2 seconds on average, and most of them have parents who are imploring that god spare them. Where is god during all of this? God is nonexistent. But oh yeah, god knowingly creates children to suffer. AND he obviously loves it OTHERWISE he would not create it.

god truly hates children…
A weeping 12-year-old Philippine girl, Glyzelle Palomar, put forth to the pope a few years ago: "Many children are abandoned by their parents. Many children get involved in drugs and prostitution," continuing "Why does God allow these things to happen to us? The children are not guilty of anything." She's fricken right.
The pope responded "She is the only one who has put a question for which there is no answer and she wasn't even able to express it in words but in tears," the pope told a crowd that organisers said reached 30,000.
In other words, god truly hates children which is a truly "duh "situation. The bible proves this time and time again with verse after verse showing how god truly hates children AND from his maw nonetheless. Also notice how children do not get to say a single sentence in the bible? Not one. Its like having your mouth glued shut for your entire childhood. That's the worst form of child abuse there is - to be neglected and ignored. And the bible does it so well. Sure god and jesus have stated that they love children or whatever, but that's not the same thing. Not by a long shot. How would you like it if someone spoke for you for your entire childhood and you could not say a single word on your behalf? Well, you'd naturally hate it. Also the bible is surely incomplete because there are no voices of children, there are no children talking or singing, or voices of them playing, when it is most assuredly required.
How would you like it if you as an adult, who worked so hard for your children, as well you should, and they should always be the center of your life, were to find out that they were left out of your life? Well, once again you'd naturally hate it. And that's exactly what the bible and god has done in leaving children completely out of "their" most supposed sacred book of history that is supposed to engulf everything that was known within their supposed surroundings up until that special moment in time, and yet it completely ignores and neglects children. Well good job for the men who wrote the bible. Not to bright.

And quoting someone else "And If god intended to unify mankind he did just the opposite when he allowed prophets and religions to flourish everywhere on Earth." In other words god loves conflict, otherwise the human race would have been unified long ago. So what is god waiting for? For man to continue to FURTHER hate each other?

Mark Twain - “Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion — several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven.”

Ludwig Borne - “Getting rid of a delusion makes us wiser than getting hold of the truth.”
Quoting someone "christians will tell you their god works in mysterious ways. They don't factor in the failed hypothesis that there is no loving god."

And in quoting another "Please remember that a good percentage of the bible was written by rapists, pedophiles, war-mongers and slave-owners"

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror." - Richard Dawkins

Now some verses from the cuddly warm fuzzy bible...
2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. From evilbible.com [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

Deuteronomy 2:34 “34And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:”

Leviticus 26:21-22 “And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.” Rob you of your children?

Hosea 13:16 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”

Exodus 21:14 -17 "But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die. 15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. 16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. 17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”

Isaiah 13:15-18 "Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children."

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. 29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.” Yummy cannibalism!

Jeremiah 11:22-23 22 “Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine: 23 And there shall be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation.

Jeremiah 19: 7-9 7 “And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth. 8 And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof. 9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them.”

2 Kings 2:23-24 “And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

So you see, there is no mercy from god. Only raw arrogance and violence and especially a destructive force at its finest. One can not forget about a super “ego” complex as well. So why would I or anyone want to find mercy from that? Yeah god is 100% pure evil. After all, he's got anger, wrath, jealousy of all things, vengeance, rage, fury and those terms are quoted of him in YOUR bible. Now why would an imperfect god require those imperfect emotions? And then even worse, to pass them down to man? That is pure unadulterated hate. Who would want to - ever - believe in god like that? Certainly no one who is in any way sane.
futurepast05

Con

Opening-


While I don’t appreciate your hatred toward us Christians, I say these things in defense of myself and other Christians, regardless of how many see this. In the way you used Bible verses to attack us, I will use them to defend us. As a Christian (and a sane one at that) I believe what I believe because of what I have experienced in my life. I do not hate my opponent, regardless of how many words of hatred he throws at me or my fellow Christians.



Response-


First off, I would like to say that God thinks of all of us as his children. 2 Corinthians 6:18 (NIV), “‘I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters’ says the Lord Almighty”. So, it is more than the Children of this current generation, while my opponent is trying to gain sympathy and hatred for God by using them as an example, it is all of us children that go through these struggles. But why do we have struggles you may ask? Well, let’s go to the FIRST struggle.


In Genesis 2 and 3, we have the well known story of Adam and Eve. Eve gave Adam the fruit from the tree of knowledge to eat, and it broke God’s covenant with humans, causing a separation that lasted until the death of Jesus. “Sin” then entered the world since creation betrayed the creator. Many would ask why God would put that tree there if he did not want them to eat of it. Seems stupid right? This is where free will comes in. God created humans with free will because if he didn’t, then all people would be like robots, who don’t live as we know it, and are incapable of relationships, since they take free will. God made humans for a relationship with them, and relationships work when two people willingly choose to be friendly or mean to them (depending on if it is a nice or antagonistic relationship). Humans have free will, and we chose to eat of the tree. Sin is not God’s fault, it is our own. The reason sin is here and humans were cast out of the garden, was because we desired to be like God, so we were deceived when we became selfish. We were cast out because sinful people could not be allowed to live forever in that place, so, in a sense, all the “disease, death, war, abuse, and whatever” is really our fault. These things happen because of our choice to transgress God’s law and become sinners. It’s not just the children that live through poverty.


Now, with that in mind, there are some things you have missed in your rush to hate on us Christians, I don’t hate you, but I must let you see a few things.



  1. As I have addressed, God did not create suffering. When he made the Garden of Eden, there was nothing of disease or violence. When we chose to listen to the serpent and become selfish to be like God, we chose Satan over God, darkness over light, wrong over right. Then, because of that choice, he had to allow these things to happen to ALL people. He doesn’t love the actions of suffering, war, etc, but we CHOOSE to do these things out of selfish desires. So, why did God have the Israelites kill in the Old Testament? Because that was how man decided victory, who lived over who died. Now, in the Old Testament, many sacrifices had to be made, why? Because innocent blood had to be shed for guilty blood, for blood of the killers (Which is why the blood of Jesus on the cross saves anyone who chooses him to this day, which was God’s showing of LOVE. John 3:16, God sent his one and only son to die, so that who believes in him would be saved. Jesus’ innocent blood was shed for us, so that our sins would be covered, just like the sacrifices in the Old Testament happened, so we could live in eternity (see Colossians 2:13-14 for the proof of this)).

  2. In reference to the story you used with the 12 year old, and how she said the children aren’t guilty of anything, this simply isn’t true. I point to Romans 3:23-24 (NIV),”for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, (verse 24) and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.” This does not exclude children, it says ALL. All have broken the law of God, all have lied or stolen, or fallen into temptation at least once in their life, I am the same way. I am no better than any of you. But those who TRULY believe Jesus is Lord are justified by his grace. They are freed by his sacrifice. I tell you God does not hate the Children, Jesus (who is Lord) himself accepted them with open arms. But I tell you, they must choose to run to him. The Bible says that even the righteous go through trials, so we all go through hard times. Our sin, war, poverty, and anything else, is our fault, and we put this burden on the children. If we see a child in poverty, why don’t we give him money? Or let him live with us? How come WE don’t help the children? Why do we blame God for their trials, yet are too selfish to help them? It doesn’t take God to help the less fortunate, it takes us. Yet, going back to the story of Adam and Eve, we are too selfish to do what is right. Their poverty is our fault, not for getting them there, but for not getting them out.

  3. You bring up the point that children have no say in the Bible, and maybe not directly, but they are seen. In Luke 2, Jesus was speaking in the temple courts as a BOY, at the age of twelve. In 1 Samuel 16, David was anointed to be king, and he was the YOUNGEST of his brothers (not to mention at his young age, he killed the Giant Goliath). So, these are two examples of boys who are in the Bible. But why aren’t there more? Be realistic. How many Children do you see running the country or waging war? None. Children were not trusted with writing the Bible just as they are not trusted with driving a car. They are simply not mature enough to do so. The righteous, anointed, mature, and eyewitnesses were trusted with writing the Bible(The New Testament is written by eyewitnesses of Jesus’ life, and they wrote their testimonies in the Gospels[written as early as 20 years after, which shows the events are accurate considering Homer’s Iliad was written about 4-5 centuries after the events in the story and are taken for some truth] and the other books all were written somewhere within the first half to full century after Jesus’ death). So, the children did not write the books because then the books would not be reliable, since nobody would take it serious, since it was written by kids. Would you trust a book about managing finances if it was written by an 8 year old? No? Same thing with the Bible. The authors had to be reliable to be included, and it was this way for historical accuracy.

  4. In reference to other religions, there is this little thing in the Bible called idolatry, only punishable by death in the Old Testament. Such actions included making and worshiping false idols, in the image of man, and perverting the holiness of God. Also, I would like to point out Satan is still a factor in life. In fact, even the Bible acknowledges this, but tells those who would listen in 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (NIV),”Test everything. Hold onto the good. Avoid every kind of evil.” This shows things CAN come from Satan (violence, poverty, abuse, prostitution, etc.), and for the righteous to TEST what was going on or what they are going to do, and do what is GOOD, and to avoid what was not of God (or of evil). If evil was from God, why is he telling us to avoid it? Hate is not of God, why do you think he says in 1 Corinthians 13:13 (NIV),”And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.” Why would Hate be from God if he not only tells those who listen to test everything, avoiding the bad, AND for the greatest thing to be love? This shows hate is not of God, neither is the disease or poverty and what not, but of Satan, because he tells those who listen to love. Matthew 7:12 (NIV)[Jesus is speaking],”So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” God does not “allow” for other religions to happen and prosper, it is the people’s choice to listen to God or Satan.

  5. Now, I bet you have never actually read the Bible, because it provides a reason for why the people killed all and destroyed completely many cities they came across in their conquest. Often in the first five books, but especially in Deuteronomy and Joshua, as well as following Old Testament books, the people were told to kill all, but not EVERY time. In these books, the reason provided was so that the people of Israel would not be corrupted by Idolaters, and were told to kill them off because, in the previous books, you would see that idolatry practiced in the Israelite nation had disastrous consequences (plagues, famine, etc). Why? Because God lifted his hand of protection, and allowed these things to happen to the people that were guilty of transgressions. He destroyed those who DISOBEYED him (which can be tied to that people who do not believe in Jesus are said to go to hell, while those who do go to heaven. Oh, and about Isaiah 13:15-18, which seems especially cruel, you DO know that is a prophecy about judgement day? Start in Isaiah 13:9, “See, the day of the Lord is coming- a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger- to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.” This is the wrath to come, after centuries of us disobeying and mocking his word and ways. He won’t have mercy on people because by that day, he has given chances for repentance, but people chose not to listen. So, in reality, it’s what we’re doing to our kids, and so it would be our fault they would be dashed against rocks, and those who did not repent would be slaughtered too, since they did not know Jesus, or teach their kids of his love. Whoever disobeyed God in the Old Testament got the punishment. Past, present, and future, this is the case.



So you see, there actually is mercy from God. He gave his only son for us on the cross 2000 years ago. God loves us all, but by choosing to mock him, break his law, and be selfish, we cause these things on ourselves.

Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Wow. Laughter on the stake. That’s a good one that you can actually use rape, murder of children, cannibalism, starvation, hate, war, genocide (deliberate genocide I might add by YOUR god for absolutely no reason), to have little kids be devoured by bears which was put into effect by none other than your holiest of masters, namely your god for no reason, lotsa and lotsa children being run through with the sword for no reason. And you have the audacity to state “I will use them to defend us”. Sorry. There is no defense for it. None. And if you were to use any kind of excuse like that while you were on the stand, guess what? With the crimes of those verses, here in this nation, you’d be strung up, the key would be thrown away and you’d be given the chair by any jury, and there’s be no questions asked.
Oh but wait its only christians that think differently. Too bad, you guys are on your own.
“First off, I would like to say that God thinks of all of us as his children.” Really? According to what? You? How would you know? What grade of vinaigrette laundry salad have you passed to make such an assumption? I guess you must know god better than he knows himself. Wow. So, I mean wow. So I mean gee. Umm. Hmm. Duh. Um. Huh. Oh oh yeah. The bible in which has been rewritten so many times in which there is no original WHATSOEVER and there are copies upon copies upon copies and translations upon translations upon translations and if god thought of us as children, you’d figure that this world would be a much better place to be in without all the hate, disease, war, anger, evil, vengeance, rage, jealousy, poverty, suffering, anguish, pain, etc etc etc. But no. That’s not how things are. Its because YOUR god relishes in those emotions and for some of them they are a part of him which proves he’s not a god at all because they are imperfection in which no god would ---ever--- require, need, want, or use. Period.
“it is all of us children that go through these struggles.” Really? According to what? You? How would you know? I’m really trying to be nice here, but you haven’t even experience an aphid spit of life. So really what do you know about life and struggles? You---know---nothing. You have 0 idea what true suffering is. Oh yesh, I could tell you some true stories that would turn your soul black and then I would tell you about me.
Now if you make one more winging it from the hip without knowing one g.d. thing, and it is so obvious that you don’t. I will end this debate.
“But why do we have struggles you may ask?” Um no I don’t have to ask because if god is god and he’s kind caring, and considerate and loving, in which he is clearly not, then there wouldn’t be ESPECIALLY FOR CHILDREN you frosty man ape who in absolutely no way understand what suffering is. But your god as sick and as diseased and as demented as he is, he knowingly creates millions of children to suffer per year. Oh but wait, thankfully YOUR god does not exist.

OK let’s get to YOUR idea of what a struggle is. I 100% guarantee you that you have no idea what one is. Ehhh ehh ehh there you go using the bible. Bad example. That’s not a struggle of any kind because god did NOT give any kind of a chance to Adam or Eve before they took a bite and made a choice. So your first struggle is null and void. But let’s look at it this way also… If god is god, he knows full well what Adam and Eve are going to be doing before they do it, quadrillions of years in advance, hence they have no choice. Also god knew what they were going to be doing before they were created, then that makes god ultimately responsible for them, just as it makes god responsible for everybody and everything everybody does hence no free will. And no matter what you say or do, you cannot squirm out of the free will issue. If you believe in god, you have no Free Will. None.

Oh but you were stupid enough to mention “sin”... so let’s pin the nail on the idiot, namely you who thinks he knows so much in which case he doesn’t…
Does every man sin?
Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)
No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)

Now in my discussions with religion, I always miss a few things. That’s because there’s far too much hatred that your god spews within his little seedy racist, diseased, anger ridden, violent (and there’s no reason for it which is something you---don’t---get) book.

Oh absolutely god did and does create suffering, if you believe in him. And I really don’t care what you think. If you don’t like it too bad. Here’s some examples of YOUR god’s genocides. Since when are genocides NOT of suffering? Oh and oh yeah, some of the verses that were in RD1 were from those genocides.
Here’s just the bodies piled up caused by YOUR god.
Indeed god is far far far worse than Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan combined. Here's some examples... 3,000 EX 32:27-28, 14,700 NU 16:49, 24,002 NU 25: 1-11, 12,000 JOS 8: 1-25, 10,000 JG 1:4, 120,000 JG 8:7-10, 42,000 JG 12:3-6, 1,000 JD 15:14-15, 3,000 JD 16:27-30, 25,101 JD 16:27-30, 1 SAM 4 34,002, 1 SAM 6:19 50,070, 2 SAM 8 65,850, 1 KI 20: 28-29 100,000, 1 KI 20: 30 27,000, KI 19 35 -37 185,000, 2 CHR 13 17-18 500,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 CHR 28:6 120,000, Esther 9:5-18 75,813 etc etc etc Yeah god is really so moral huh? There’s no such a thing as “love” within any genocide. Don't try to wire yourself around them, you can't and it will do you no good.
OK here’s one thing that I will absolutely NOT deal with. DO NOT state “we”. K? Um no. Its you. You are in this mess and you alone. I have the intelligence to not believe in a god who hates children, gays, women, loves raped women hey that’s practically half the planet… who commits countless DELIBERATE genocides as proved above, loves anger, wrath, rage, fury, evil, jealousy and has freely admitted to them. Oh but wait, you are not going to take your god’s word when he states that he is those things? Wow. So I guess you must have no friends as well. After all if you can’t take you god at his word, how can you expect friends to take you ate your word and vice versa?

Oh absolutely your god does love the actions of suffering otherwise he would not knowingly create it. Period. Simple. Easy. Done. Do not make excuses for your god when you cannot POSSIBLY get into his head, K? DO NOT even try to pretend you can either. And if you invent another excuse and or flat out lie, I shall end this debate. I really hate it when people like you invent excuses from something in which they CLEARLY know nothing about and yet they try to pretend that they do. Especially when you do not even have the faintest conception as to what true suffering is.
“but we CHOOSE to do these things out of selfish desires.” Yeah? And guess what snookums? YOUR god is in the thick of it nearly every---single---fricken---time. Strange isn’t it that in comparison that the Inca, many of the native American Indian tribes until your white man greasy sweaty racist pig christian wiped them out, the aborigines, Hindu’s, Gaia Mother Earth, Buddhists etc etc etc they do not practice nor preach nor go to war over their religions, not anywhere close to the evils nor hate that the christians do nor YOURS. Now why is that? And yet according to your god worshiping other gods is considered to be the most evil thing there is, and you should be stoned to death for it. So you follow your lord’s orders and you come on down here and stone me to death. Whatsamatter? You are not going to follow your god’s orders? Why? Why not?
“So, why did God have the Israelites kill in the Old Testament? Because that was how man decided victory, who lived over who died.” That’s a s--t reasoning. One of the worst of all time in my doing this for 40+ years and having talked with 25,000 or so. If your god is god, he could have simply said POOF “no” and reigned in and era of peace. So---stop---inventing---excuses. But YOU like your god loves war and the agony of war and the hatred it brings.
Um no. No sacrifices had to be made. Its simple. If god is god he can make peace. But no, he chose genocide. See all the genocides above. I don’t need to see the pathetic verse you posted.
“Which is why the blood of Jesus on the cross saves anyone who chooses him to this day,” Well that’s absolutely 100% false in which you cannot prove in any way. But I can. Now you show me anywhere in your bible where YOUR god grants YOUR christ the ability to break any of god’s laws, rules and regulations and there are many. In fact YOUR bible does not state that. Not anywhere. So christ is false. The NT is false. christianity is false. The jews have it correct and they are still waiting for their messiah to come.

Oh that’s a good one… a god is going to send someone to suffer and be horrifically tortured beyond anything anyone can possibly imagine… oh but wait abused children go through one helluva lot more than your pathetic christ ever did, sometimes for decades and your christ went through 17 hours tops, you have no idea what child abuse is. Now how are children supposed to grasp what suffering is? If you’ve answered “nothing”, you’ve answered correctly.
Buddhism teaches the “end” of suffering. Your sad pathetic christ teaches the beginning of suffering. Oh gee I just cannot possibly imagine which one I will pick.

Am out of space.
futurepast05

Con

I would like to say a few things,


First and foremost, these atrocities you describe, I have already told you in my previous argument, they are not of God because they do not match his character. He is a deliverer of those who believe in him and are his chosen people. In the Old Testament, his chosen people were the Israelites, and in the New Testament, it is anyone who believes and lives out the words of Jesus. The people who died in the Old Testament were not killed ruthlessly for no reason. If you read the Bible, you would pick up that there were doing things that were despicable in God’s eyes. Notice, not ONE place in the Bible does God say he hates ANYONE. Let’s take Sodom and Gomorrah for example in Genesis 18 and 19. You can read the whole story there, but in summary: Abraham pleads with God for him to space the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, God says he will spare them if he finds as little as ten righteous people in the entire people. Note: RIGHTEOUS, meaning if their actions are ok, NOT because of who the people are, but for what they had DONE. A man named Lot is the only righteous person found in the two cities, as the rest were perverted and had done great sin against God. God sends two angels who tell Lot to leave, and to warn his family. Outside his close family (sons and daughters, wife, etc.), none listened. He and his families left, and the two angels destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. So, you see, it was by their deeds against God that they were killed. Lot and his family escaped with their lives, but none others did. Why? This is an example of God’s judgment. He was angry with the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah, but the Bible says he REMEMBERED Abraham, and brought those who were righteous out of the way of judgment. To summarize this point, the people were killed because their actions against God, which they chose to do, and God judged them by their actions, and since none other were righteous, none were saved. But for those who ARE righteous, they will be spared of God’s judgment( I would like to say if you visit the ruins of Gomorrah today, they are covered in 6 inches of ash. Just saying.). These people who died in the Old Testament were not murdered in cold blood, but they were receiving justice for their actions against God.


Next, thank you for the compliment about audacity, I am trying to be audacious and speak out for light. I am willing to fight for the truth.


Third, we Christians do think differently. We believe it is by faith we are saved, and not by good works as every other religion believes (except for atheists who believe in nothing). We aren’t alone, we are unique. I’ve seen the light touch so many lives. Lives transformed. People weeping because they see what have done and how disgusting they were. I’ve done it myself. God is for us and is with us, us being those who listen and live God’s word. I’m not alone. I have a community. I have a supernatural defense. Your insults that you fling at me in hate, they bounce off like rocks at a tank. The hate you show me, it has no effect. I have nothing but love for you sir, I don’t hate you, even if you think the world would be better without us. I am audacious because I walk into the fight with no fear. Just so you truly know what you’re up against (oh, and if you forfeit, I’m taking this debate as a victory because It is assumed you have no argument left, forfeiting to the truth.)


Enough ranting, now the real argument-


First off, how do I know I am a child of God? Did I not provide you 2 Corinthians 6:18 (NIV) which clearly states,”’I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.’” So how do I know? Because I am told by God that I am. I don’t assume it. I know it. He told me, so I don’t know God better than himself, because he TOLD me I am.


Second, in reference to the Bible being rewritten, you do know you could line up modern text with the original Greek manuscript? As well as the original Hebrew manuscripts? The Dead Sea scrolls? Sir, I know we are Christians, but that doesn’t make us dumb. Each translation comes from the original text, based on the language and meaning of each Hebrew and Greek word used in the ORIGINAL eyewitness accounts. The manuscripts don’t build off each other, they build off the original. So if anybody challenges the credibility of the Modern Bible, do the research. Look at the original manuscripts, and show me the inconsistencies. Show me where translations change the character of God or Jesus or anything in the Bible.


Third, yes, you are right. It is a much better place without all of that. It was called the Garden of Eden. There was no evil like that in the Garden because everything was perfect. There was no sin. But when Adam broke God’s covenant, this is the world you get. Selfish desires brought about all of these things. God doesn’t relish in these things. If he did, then why does he say in 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (NIV), “Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.” If he relished is war and death, why does he tell us to avoid every kind of evil? The thing is, God is perfectly pure and JUST. Justice comes for those who transgress the law. Therefore, Justice came to the transgressors.


Fourth, I’ve seen as much life as you. You’ve lived longer yes, but I still see and understand the state this world is in today. Not only this, but I have a hope. Why? Because I have seen God working in other people’s lives. I’m not just saying that I see people raise their hands in church, but I have heard and seen the testimonies. The stories of people that lived through medical IMPOSSIBILITIES. Blind people seeing, mute people talking, deaf people hearing. I have seen people be healed, all because of a simple plea to God. Impossible? Not at all. You could tell me so many struggles about you, but I would ask how you dealt with them. Drugs? Maybe. Alcohol? Maybe. Sex? Maybe. Darkness? Definitely. Your actions led to your consequences, which then you shook your fist at God and said, “How could this happen to me?” When you really did these things to yourself. Sir, I know what struggles are. I have been through them. I have seen them. But I have seen people overcome them in righteousness. I have overcome them too. I know what’s going on today sir. The poverty, the war, the hatred. But I ask, what are you doing about it? Nothing. You’re just letting it happen. Not the Christians. As an FYI, my church has a team in Zorange, Haiti, building a medical clinic, a school, fresh water wells, all with the funds people give out of their hearts for the less fortunate. Our church supports people in Africa doing the same thing. I have friends (yes, friends) that go to Nepal once a year, to help. What are you doing? I have given my money, my time, and my time, to serve those who need love and hope. All because Jesus did the same thing for me. I ask you again, what have you done to help those who need it? Nothing? Then why do you try to bring hatred on those actually helping? We do these things because we love people as Christ loved us, and shed his innocent blood for us, setting an example for us, and providing a way to heaven. I know what struggles are sir. I found myself one day long ago holding a knife and looking at my arm, ready to cut. I know what it feels to be lost. But I was found, and I came to Christ, and I no longer to violate myself, or think I’m not good enough. Sir, you have no right to bear the sword against me. You are doing to me what you claim God does to us. But I ask you, and the readers, who really is hating here? The attacker of Christianity? Or the Defender, who is trying to show love in the face of insults.


Then, Adam and Eve was not my first struggle, but the first struggle, so it is not null and void since it is an example. And we do have free will. If I wanted to, I could fling myself off a cliff or drive 120 mph on the highway, or do drugs or drink alcohol, but I don’t because I express self-control over things that ultimately will harm me. Why? Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV):”But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” Simple. We have free will, but it comes down to who does and who does not express self-control, and other traits such as these.


Next, I said every man sins, I don’t know why you provide me with more verses that prove that, but thank you. Romans 3:23 says it all though.


Now, I would like to say first I admitted that I had sinned previously. I am not ashamed of that. But there is a little confusion you have of 1 John, let me clear it up for you. One, you are providing incomplete verses, as 1 John 5:1 actually reads (in the NIV),”Everyone who believes in Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.” While it may SEEM unimportant, please finish your verses. Second, get the context of 1 John 3:9. John was speaking of PURPOSEFUL sin. Just see Hebrews 10:26(NIV),”If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,”. Also, you contradicted yourself here by calling Christians children of God when earlier you asked according to what I called us that.


Now I am running out of space, but I want to say that those who took to the sword against the Mayans and such, I’m in no position to judge, the sword was never theirs to take. They have been judged by their actions, which did NOT line up to Jesus’ teachings. How could they be Christians if they did not live out the word they preached? James 1:22(NIV),”Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.” I have so much to say, but not enough space. One last thing. If you want to arrest me or kill me for believing with all my heart, soul, and mind that Jesus is Lord, consider me guilty.





Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

Oh---yes---the---atrocities---mentioned---are---most---certainly---of---god---mentioned. Who are you, who CLEARLY has not read his bible to think that they are not, especially of the OT?
These people that are about to be quoted knows one helluva lot more than you BY FAR than you will ever hope to about YOUR god, religion and bible. Now since you are a mere 16 years old, there’s ab-so-lu-te-ly no way whatsoever that you can possibly know and understand all of what you have posted to me. In me stating that, it is so crystal clear that you are subatomically brainwashed. Now what do I mean by that? If someone were to come up to you and he or she were to agree with EVERYTHING and ANYTHING you were to say with that person, you would still manage to find fault with that person.
Now I am going to ask you a simple 2 little questions in which I 100% know that you will avoid at all costs because I know you will B.S. me… 1. “Where and how” do/ did, (in other words who taught and or who teaches you?) you get your interpretations from because after all its not from your brainy manage little self? 2. And I want you to show me that information so I myself can look it up online with the exact links. K? IF you do not present this information to me it simply means that you are an absolute 100% fraud just like your supposed god and so so so many of your fake christian brethren.

Now to the quotes in which YOU cannot refute. Since you think you are so smart then you talk to THEM if you think they are wrong, got it? K? Good. You do not talk to me.
.
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror.” - Richard Dawkins

“Stop making excuses for your holy book. It is an abomination. It encourages abomination. And the more you sacrifice your humanity and morality to make excuses like ‘well god really wanted people to love each other but they just wouldn’t so they just wanted to nudge them in the right direction by saying you can own people but don’t beat them too damn much.’ Its still a weaka$$ immoral god. And YOU are better than that. Stop making excuses for the immorality. Take responsibility for your life and realize that if a GOD tells you that you can own somebody, that GOD is a piece of s--t.” Matt Dillahunty

Don Baker “Let’s just take one quote for example “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”. That’s a quote in the bible. That’s a direct commandments from god. And hundreds of thousands of people have been killed for that quote. And its reprehensible. Its horrible. And I can think of no good reason for it. And if a god really did really write that he’s really f stupid for saying ‘hey btw, there’s no witches” Then laughter proceeds from Don. Gee. Golly. I just can’t imagine why.

“Now I am absolutely convinced that the main source of hatred in the world is religion and organized religion. Absolutely convinced of it. And I think it, religion, should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.” Christopher Hitchens

“Not lets appear to the Chinese where people can read and write and study evidence and have a civilization, lets go to the desert and have another revelation there. This is nonsense. It can’t be believed by a thinking person.” Christopher Hitchens

“So when I say that religion poisons everything, the subtitled of my book, I’m not just doing what publishers like and coming up with provocative subtitle. I mean to say it infects us in our most basic integrity. It says we can’t be moral without big brother without totalitarian permission. It means we can’t ben good to one another without this. We must be afraid. We must also be forced to love someone who we fear. The essence of sadomasochism”. Christopher Hitchens

“If you try to get clarification, if you try to get what the christian orthodox view is on the law, you're not going to find consensus. You’re not going to find christians ‘oh here’s what christians think about’ they’re all going to have this concept of this different thing now. But as far as it applies and why and what to do with it, they’re all different. Its going to be a hard argument because most have different ideas about it and most are going to change their ideas and start tweeking them as soon as they have to start answering questions because they haven’t looked into it before most of them.” Tracie Harris

Tracie Harris “If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your god. He watches and shuts the door and you go ahead and you rape that child and when your’re done I’m gonna punish you. If I did that people would think I’m a freakin’ monster.” Caller “(sounds like) Truthfully (continues) you portray that little girl as someone who is innocent when she’s as evil as…” CLICK Matt “Goodbye you piece of BLEEP!!!” Yes there are some sicko’s out there.

Caller “There are two entities. You have a fallen angel named Lucifer.” Matt “Then he’s more powerful?” Caller “No.” Matt “Then why doesn’t god get rid of him?” Caller “Because that’s not god’s character.” (laughter ensues in the studio because obviously its a stupid answer) OK, well then we have yet another thing where I am morally superior because if I created a bunch of things and I wanted and I loved and cared about these people but something else that I created was screwing up their lives, I’d get---rid---of---it. That’s in my character. That’s morally correct. Your god’s an a$$.” Matt Dillahunty

Now I really don’t care what YOU have told me of your previous argument. It happens to be 100% false. If you don’t happen to agree with it, that’s simply your problem as proved in the well coordinated quotes above. And there are of course many more.
Oh ab-so-lu-te-ly the verses presented do indeed match YOUR god’s character. My god, wow, you haven’t read your bible at all now have you. There you go again inventing excuses from something in which you clearly know nothing about. Now be honest, how much of the bible have you actually read to make such a truly ignorant assumption? Ahhh I get it now, you have not even scratched the OT. But you cannot have the NT without the OT. That is of course unless the god of the OT is not the same as in the NT. So then creation as in the OT did not take place, Exodus, the 10 commandments, the 10 plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, and hey here’s a good one for yah how’s about the great flood where your god according to you who does not exist because you do not believe in the OT AT ALL, he who in which god wiped out EVERY living thing, aka the WORST genocide of all time oh but wait, that’s NOT in YOUR god’s character? Are you fricken kidding me? Of course it is. But then again, sorry, Noah’s ark didn’t happen by ANY scientific method. And you know what? Neither did the great flood as this planet was never flooded at the same time, so none of it is true. Sheesh are people like you truly naive and pathetic. .
“It is anyone who believes and lives out the words of Jesus.” What moron would ---ever--- want to?
Tracie Harris “In the bible the only reason why people had to die was because god set up this system of sacrifice which is really weird.”
Don Baker “So he’s killing himself to appease himself for a rule he made up. What a bunch of bulls--t.”
Tracie “He could have just said ‘treat people well and I will judge you on that instead of people must die’. Let’s be clear on this. Nobody had---to---die."

Don Baker ”I would love it if christians would worry more about the suffering they’ve caused to other people in the world. Christians have tortured and murdered jews and burnt witches and all these things and they’ve cause FAR MORE suffering than jesus ever went through.”
Tracie “If jesus went through any.”
Don “If jesus even existed.”
Tracie “I guess my whole thing is I don’t get this suffer porn thing.”

“that were despicable in God’s eyes.” Worshiping false god’s Deuteronomy 13 talks all about that one. I especially like verses 9-10. “But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.”
There’s also Deuteronomy 17: 2-5 which REPEATS the same thing. They are so wonderful and as soft as cushiony down. Since you are ever so wise, you come on down here and stone me to death and billions of others who do not worship YOUR totally insane stupid little nothingness diseased mental case god who truly hates the human race as proved right here because he is a little goo goo ga ga baby because others want to worship as THEY CHOOSE and not as YOUR god does not wish OTHERS TO WORSHIP other gods. So you come on down here and stone me to death as YOUR god has ordered you to do. Whatsamatter? You are not going to do it and thus break your god’s totally berserk laws? Why not you total a$$?
If that isn’t direct HATE and pure 100% EVIL, then what is? And if you say “no” to it, and you think that these people deserve to DIE because they worship different gods, then perhaps you should die for worshiping a false god whom in which you cannot even prove even exists.

Is murder evil? Y____? N____? Is slavery evil? Y____? N____? Is rape evil? Y____? N____? Is hating gays to stone them to death evil? Y____? N____? Is deliberate genocide evil? Y____? N____? Is hating children evil? Y____? N____? Etc etc etc All of these your god has freely admitted to and participated in. Look it up!

Am out of space.
futurepast05

Con

Who are you to say anything?

I very much so HAVE read the Bible, and that is all I have quoted so far during this debate. You have not listened to a word I have said, and you keep saying they are of God. Sir, I ask you to stop asking questions that I have already answered twice before. Give me an answer sir to this question. How could these atrocities be of God is he tells the Christian in 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (NIV),”Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.” Sir, I even quote the version of the Bible I use. I do not see you quoting the version you have used, and you have quoted out of context verses, as well as incomplete ones. How can your argument be trusted if your evidence against me is incomplete?

Next, I would like to say, who knows more about their religion? The one who hates it and is 100% against it, or the one who practices it daily, requiring them to know the ins and outs of their religion.

Third, I am not brainwashed, I simply lived through what I believed. I wholeheartedly believe what I do because I lived through it, and the evidence was made clear to me through God’s work, not only in my life, but the people around me. My family and my friends, I have seen what God has done. It took trials (John 16:33(NIV):”I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” The Bible says we will go through troubles and trials in our life. I too have gone through troubles, it is you that has been avoiding my questions.)

Answering your questions:

Since I’ll “100% know that you will avoid at all costs”, I’ll answer your questions, sir.



    1. 1. I was taught the Word of God by many people, mainly the righteous people, and my understanding of the Bible and its contents come from Pastors and Evangelists who have a greater knowledge of the Bible than even I. For example, I bring Robert Breaker into view. He is a pastor and has a Youtube channel of the same name, I encourage you to check it out, and he analyzes the Bible as it was written, and I observed. My Pastor and traveling pastors I have heard have taught me this knowledge. But sir, I do not believe what I believe because the word says so. I believe it because people lived it out in my life, and showed me love. Love was all the evidence I needed. Also, about the interpretations, they are my own. But tell me, how many interpretations can you get out of John 3:16(NIV),”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”? How many interpretations can you get out of the verses I have Posted? Romans 3:23(NIV),” for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”? John 16:33? 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22? How many interpretations can you get? I use the verses exactly as they are written. They do not contradict my statements. The evidence I present is straight from the Bible sir, I don’t need any “experts” of this world to provide evidence for this. In fact, when talking about the Bible, we should be getting ALL our evidence from there because you are giving me atheist opinions on my religion, which means nothing to me because they are not the word of God. It is no evidence to me. I tell you sir, I am still young, but this is my specialty. I do this to show that God does not hate anyone. He never said he did, and he never will. The atrocities are from Satan, and I know because I know the character of God and Satan as described by the Bible, and the atrocities you keep bringing up do not match up with God’s character; therefore, they can not be of him. Again, HOW could they be of him when he tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22(NIV),”Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.” Answer that sir. Don’t go around it like you did before, as well with every question I have asked. You have no right to say I don’t answer your questions when I clearly do, but you do not answer mine. Perhaps you have no answer to it?
    1. 2. I don’t need links sir, this information I am telling you these things because they are from my heart and brain. This argument is typed with two resources, my brain and my Bible. Why? I don’t need anything else. Who needs the internet? Look at your Bible, if you have one. Pick it up and read it with an open mind. Focus on the Love. Not the hate. There are no links to what I am telling you. This is my witnessing to those in darkness. Why do I do it? Because I care about what happens to people, and I do not want them to stay lost in darkness. I have a brotherly love for you, and anyone who reads this. That is why I do not insult you. That is why I speak of love and not hate. There are no links. It is simply telling of the Love of the Gospel.


About the quotes sir, I will not combat the quotes, but the people who said these things. Richard Dawkins is a well known atheist, and has combatted christians for years. Why should I take his word over the word of God that tells me my God loves me and is for me, and that “I can do everything through him who gives me strength.”(Philippians 4:13 (NIV)). Why should I listen to Matt Dillahunty, well known atheist and the president of the Atheist Community of Austin? Why should I take his word over the word of God that tells me “and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”(Matthew 28:20(NIV)). Why should I listen to atheist Don Baker, when the word of God tells me “ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16(NIV)). Why should I listen to atheist Christopher Hitchens, when the word of God tells me “ My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:12-13). Why should I listen to atheist Tracie Harris, when my God tells me,”’For I know the plans I have for you,’ declares the Lord,’ plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.’”(Jeremiah 29:11(NIV)). Tell me someone, why I should listen to these quotes about having hate for God and how bad he is by, not even christians, but atheists who do not know the workings of our religion? I will not listen to their hate when the Lord tells me otherwise.

I can tell you don’t care what I have to say in my previous arguments because I have had to spend almost the entirety of this argument restating the answers I have already given. Also, how can you say you have good coordination when not only do you bring up answered questions, but you CONTRADICTED yourself in your last argument. Listen sir, don’t give me hate quotes from atheists, they bounce off like rocks on a tank. All of the people you mentioned hate Christians and Christianity, and can NOT be used as evidence against God because YOU STILL HAVE YET TO GIVE ME ONE VERSE WHERE GOD SAYS HE HATES SOMEONE. Don’t give me a body count. Give me a verse that God says, “I hate you” or “I hate this person”. I guarantee you will not find one, the closest one you may find may be Genesis 18:20-21 (NIV),”Then the Lord said,’The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin is so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.’” Every time someone is destroyed in the Bible, it is for their TRANSGRESSIONS AGAINST GOD’S LAW. That is called JUSTICE, not MURDER.

In reference to the Old Testament accusations, did I not mention Adam and Eve in Genesis, Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis, Achan in Joshua, Isaiah’s prophecy of judgment day in Isaiah 13:9, the story of David in 1 Samuel. I clearly mentioned these in my past two arguments. I have used them. Do not accuse me of false things.

God of the OT is the same as the one in the NT, just look at all the stories of mercy and grace, and stories of overcoming. Israel was the weakest nation, that is why they were God’s chosen people. They overcame their enemies in the Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Joshua; David killed a Giant, and eventually became king through his faith; Job lost it all when Satan took everything from him, but by his faith in God, he was blessed tenfold in the end; Isaiah 9:1-7 prophecies the one to come (Jesus) and what he would be called. I tell you he is the same God, because if you look at the complete stories instead of the process, the righteous rise above and overcome those who choose to defile God’s law in the OT. In the NT, it is a different way to do the same thing. Those who choose to love and believe in Jesus’ sacrifice will be saved and enter heaven, and those who do not, have an eternity in the darkness they chose to run to. I believe in the OT sir, and about Noah, did you read Genesis 6:9-12? Genesis 6:13 God says he will destroy the people of the earth because the earth was filled with violence because of them. Genesis 6:11(NIV),” Now the earth was corrupt in God’s eyes and was full of violence.” God provided his reasoning for destroying the earth! READ THE FULL STORY!

I am running out of space, but you do know the scientific method comes from the Bible? Why do you think the scientific revolution came out of the Protestant Reformation? Also, about worrying about suffering, we do it too. You put us through it. Just saying. Now, as Jesus did with the woman caught in the act of adultery (John 8:1-11), I will not cast a stone because judgement is not mine to give. Finally, with your questions, notice how all of these are actions. You use evil a bunch, but I simply go back to 1 Thessalonians 5:22(NIV),”Avoid every kind of evil.” God did not participate in these actions, the people CHOSE to disobey God and his laws and they were punished accordingly. These things you bring up are HUMAN actions. People did these things, not God.

Debate Round No. 3
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 4 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: dsjpk5// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 point to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: Pro called Con an "idiot" in round two. This is poor conduct.

[*Reason for non-removal*] While I understand that this particular voter has cast similar votes on several debates that one of these debaters has participated in, that is not sufficient reason for removal. The vote meets the standards, explaining why he decided to award conduct based on what was stated in the debate. If the debater(s) wish to exclude this voter in the future, they may include a rule stating that he may not vote.
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Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
@dsjpk5 - Yes I have had a few poems published.
Most christians do not have "genuine" friends. BIG difference. And most in the WORLD do not have one friend for 40+ years much less for 16 or 15 years. So your pathetic little nothingness attempt at a barfing insect insult didn't work.
Yes I am always looking for something new and different. You ever look at my profile? Its as new and as different as it gets. I'm interested in a lot of things.Religion isn't the only thing that I am interested in. Film and music especially. Some of the stuff I listen to and watch is so far gone that people would simply not be able to stuff themselves inside of a thermal radioactive meat locker and remain sane. Is that descriptive enough for you?
Posted by dsjpk5 5 months ago
dsjpk5
You're a writer???? Have you ever had anything published?

I see you have friends. Good for you!

I find it humorous that you say you're always looking for something new, but only debate about one thing.

I really don't know how to respond to the rest of your comments. As you're prone to do, you've created a giant word salad, full of insults and gibberish.

Good luck to you!
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
@dsjpk5 - Because I'm a writer and I love to splatter my guts on the pavement. Especially when I happen to be right. Proving a point doesn't necessarily mean I care about proving that point now does it? After all I can walk away from it at any time. And I can unlike most. I can also freely admit that I am wrong unlike most. And when I am wrong I---will---apologize. I am also brutally honest and the only time that I lie, well actually its called bluffing is at the poker table. I've kept 4 friends for 40+ years because of it. I've also got one friend for 16+ years and one for 15+ years. And we don't B.S. each other.
I mean look at what-its-face who MUST prove his god exists every-single-second-of-every-single-day-he's-breathing who doesn't even take the time out to eat his bran flakes and split his coffin in half with his squeegee muffin top. He like so many here have no friends or loved ones. None. And they are so easy to spot. That's their extreme weakness is because they take their invisible negative violent god who truly hates children as their bibles clearly specifies and they live their lives out in solitary confinement with a little blank black book. And the thing about it is, they like everybody else on this planet, is they can't even prove that their god exists. Go figure. Oh yeah gullibility.
I always look for something new. I always look for something fresh and unique. Not to them. How can they? Their bible's are the same from bookend to bookend. Oh but wait, no they are not. Not from translation to translation, from copy to copy and they have no idea what they are reading because of it and no way to trace it back to the original. So how on earth are they supposed to know what they are reading is correct?
They have no idea how to breathe fresh air, how to be at one with the planet, how to hug a hundred year old or even a thousand year old tree and respect that tree, that nature has its place.
I also always make sure I get plenty of rest and sleep.
Posted by dsjpk5 5 months ago
dsjpk5
If you don't care, then why offer one of your treatises on the subject? And conduct is only worth one point, while arguments are worth three points, so they don't have equal "pull".

"you"d be a little smooggy in the cabbage batbrain as well."

See what I mean when I say your arguments are confusing? That's pure gibberish.
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
@dsjpk5 - You don"t have to apologize for the delay. But why would I blame myself for anything? I---don"t---care about conduct. That"s the point. Its a completely worthless subject and should not even be something to be voted on. Its a completely worthless useless gesture and in no way should have the value nor pull as "more convincing arguments". If people want to penalize me for it, let then. Its fine. I"m not going to change for someone"s lack-there-of intelligence or edumacation. Indeed I prefer someone who is intelligent and has an education. However with christians, especially here, that is ever so especially rare. Well sorry, what I state in my arguments or posts in regards to religion, that"s not an opinion. All it takes is thinking, reasoning, rationalizing, common sense, and logic in which god, the bible, and religion has none. And hey that"s all right there in the bible for you to read. Maybe you ought to pick it up and read it sometime. After all it is the most violent book ever written. I don"t believe in that crap.
Yeah I"ll be the first to admit, I"m a strange person and not your average cream of the crap. I mean why create the same ole boring debate that one big ole snore in the sneeze rags? But then again if you"ve been through what I"ve been through and go through, and I know of others who have been through far worse and I could tell you some true stories that would turn your soul black, and no that"s not the reason why I will ---never--- believe in god, you"d be a little smooggy in the cabbage batbrain as well.

But you on the other hand are a dead giveaway...
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
Well goodie for me. All the more reason for me to not believe in christ and NOT get to heaven.
So don"t talk to me about "love" when you are far too young to even have the faintest concept of what true love is.
Love is described in billions of books, through billions of people talking about it every---single---day. There"s nothing special about YOUR christ who is a false savior to begin with.
There"s no evidence of answered prayer. Google it smarty.
Oh that cyst and a baby was born just fine on your end, you could have taken her down to Botswana or spoken Swahili and achieved the exact same results. Not only that, but truly how naive are you that here"s you "There"s no explanation, therefore god!!!" That"s why I cannot respect you under any circumstance. And that is why you are completely and totally unintelligent and totally uneducated.
Oh and btw, my dad is one of the most famous pathologists in the world and has seen everything there is to see medically.. And my mother died to bone cancer you f--k. And I"ve known 3 other that have died due to cancer. So don"t come up with your trash that you know nothing about. And I"ve seen EVERYTHING that you cannot possibly imagine. You"ve seen nothing and cannot possibly know what suffering is.
Again, who says that all those medical survivalists whatevers, - well you prove that its your god that saved them? You can"t just go around and state "Wow, I don"t have any explanation for their survival whatsoever, therefore POOF it MUST be god."
Over and out dimwit.
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
And she"ll say "yes." And so you are basically saying "you"ll have free will in heaven?" So you have free will in heaven and no one is being hurt, raped, so you can do anything you want and no one gets hurt. If god has that power in heaven, he must have that power on earth. So he"s chose not to set that condition/ toggle switch which means he"s a dick. Phil Ferguson

"You say God did it to them, but you do nothing about it." So according to YOU, your god is so cute and cuddly about Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Hong Xiuquan, Stalin, all serial killers, all rapists, all torturers, all, sodomizers, etc etc etc because he is not in control of them and does not know what they are going to be doing. So who"s more evil? YOU for not being able to figure it out that god creates these situations? Or your god for creating these situations?
Now let"s get right---down---to--business. And pay close attention here because you cannot help people like that. A perfect example is a rapist and a murderer of 6 five year old girls. Suppose that you know that you have this person in custody. Oh I get it, according to YOUR sickened bible and christ, you"d forgive this person and set him free! Um no, you lock him up and you throw away the key and you give him the chair. Period. So---why---should---god---be---treated---differently? He shouldn"t. Your god after all created Hitler, Mao Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan, all serial killers, all rapists, all torturers, all, sodomizers, etc etc etc and this god of YOURS knew who they all would turn out to be before they were even born, that is if god is god, quadrillions of years in advance. So he is responsible for them. Oh and even better "Man is created in god"s image." Seriously? So absolutely YOUR god is guilty and as usual YOU cannot slither your way out of it.
Oh but wait by gum these people if they are all to believe in christ are to get into heaven. And you know something? I will not because I will not because I will not believe in christ.
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
I also know for an absolute fact that you didn"t even look up the verses that were in my arguments to absolutely show that god has committed his atrocities and massive genocides and one of them were he murdered 500,000 Isrealites for jeez sakes his supposed chosen people, wow what a hypocritical contradiction one of a thousand or so in your bible which truly makes it unreadable. So much goes for you being able to study it.
Ah yes, the poverty stricken. You have no idea what poverty is like. The poverty stricken, And don"t you dare pretend that you do. Absolutely your god creates poverty and its clear without question that he loves it. If not then he"s simply not all knowing and all powerful to get people out of poverty stricken areas. Oh but your tinsel mind can"t even reason out of that. And if you do as such it also means that your god is NOT is control of everything, that he does not know everything, that he is not omnipotent and he most certainly is not perfect. So which is your punk a$$ kid who has to invent excuses for something in which he clearly knows nothing about.
Now here"s something more for you to slaughter your pathetic way of thinking which shows just how YOU do not have the ability to think, reason, rationalize, use common sense, nor use logic and that because YOUR god, religion, bible does not require a single ounce of it. Ready? Oh but wait you are going to ignore MORE Evidence. Good going you. Keep it going!
"Could god have made the world and not suffering? And if they say "no" then he"s not all powerful. If they say "yes", then why didn"t he? Its a constant thing. There"s multiple ways to come at it." Phil Ferguson
Now here"s an interesting premise/ question for you for you to wiggle out of in which you as usual can"t" When she dies does she get to go to heaven? If she gets to go to heaven will she be happy? And she"ll probably say "yes". And you say "Will you be able to choose and do anything you want while you are in heaven?"
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
Oh and I most certainly DO NOT try to convert your a$$ to atheism. Because there"s no book on atheism. There"s no guide to atheism. Just be you. In other words there"s billions of ways to be an atheist. There"s only one way to believe in god. YOURS.
"There was a purpose behind the pain you do not see." There"s NO PURPOSE TO PAIN you total dolt. How do you teach pain and suffering especially to CHILDREN who know NOTHING about pain and suffering especially when daddy is sticking his you know what inside of them as an example from age 4 all the way up until 17 sometimes twice per week while punching his daughter in the face? And YOUR god knowingly creates these kids by the millions per year to KNOWINGLY suffer like that and that"s only a small example. god BLAST you.
I listen to love. We both listen to love. So? Love is an emotion. What is that? You don"t need god to have love. Nobody needs god to have love. Now pay attention to someone who is just as brainwashed as you. But I know you the true coward that you are WILL NOT because you are a coward.
https://www.youtube.com...
See? I can provide rock solid evidence to back up what I say. You can provide no evidence. Nothing. Your bible is NOT evidence. You can"t even have proof that YOUR god even exists.
Hate? There are only 2 things I hate. 1 Your god because he hates children in which was unquestionably proved to you through numerous verses. Just because you happen to go into massive denial, that"s not my problem, that"s yours. 2. Those that abuse children. You hate everything that doesn"t agree with your god. And if you don"t you are a flat out liar because that is what your god ORDERS you to do. Deuteronomy 13 and Deuteronomy 17: 2-5 instructs you to kill me and EVERYBODY else that believes differently from you to be killed. That"s absolute HATE and sorry there"s no way you can snake your forked tongue out of it.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 5 months ago
dsjpk5
backwardsedenfuturepast05Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro called Con an "idiot" in round two. This is poor conduct.