The Instigator
DamnDude
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Reeseroni
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

CSGO AWP Nerf

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Reeseroni
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/16/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,643 times Debate No: 73568
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

DamnDude

Con

This arguement will be about the nerfing of one of CSGO's well known weapon: the AWP.
The Pro will support the nerf while the con will not.
I wish my opponent a good fight :)
Reeseroni

Pro

I accept, and I would like to acknowledge that I, too am upset with the recent AWP nerf by Valve, but I have learned how it has drastically changed the game for the better.

The AWP is a one shot- one kill, and still is! The main perks of the op were that it had two scopes that will allow the player to see visibly in short combat, and the second scope was to allow the player to see farther distances away. The original AWP allowed the player to be the front end player of his or her team, causing the AWP to be a more offensive weapon AND defensive weapon. The scopes also were extremely accurate while moving or shift-walking.

With the recent changes the carrying speed of the AWP is much, much slower- causing the AWPer on the team to not be able to run nearly as fast as his friend with an m4a4, or ak-47. Also, the AWP's scopes now are steadier and more sensitive, causing it to take time to prepare to shoot. This introduces more of a sense of Quickscoping into CSGO just like its old friend, CS 1.6 where quickscoping was also common. When you turn while scoped in, the scope becomes very inaccurate for a short time, meaning that the player must stop completely to be as accurate as he could be. This also causes the AWP to be more of a defensive weapon, where players would have to set up and wait for the other players to rush in- then the AWPer would already be in position for a fight. Another thing that was changed was the AWPs accuracy while un-scoped. This just means that when people are standing within touching distance, there is a lesser chance to get them with a noscope. The only thing that this does to gameplay is influence the AWPer to equip his/her secondary of choice, and whip that out if they are in a bad situation.

The game of CS does not revolve around the AWP. Of course there are the gifted AWPers such as KennyS or JWonderchild, but there are many players that are just as good with all of the other weapons. Too many people claim to be great "AWPers" which should be a trait that one has to develop, rather than pick up the day they get the game. I have proof of this by a friend of mine who recently purchased CS:GO before the update, and he was already acquanted with FPS games, and the second he bought an AWP, he got atleast 2 or three kills on his first day. The next time we played was after the update, and he was surprised that it was more difficult to control than it was when he had just started. He was not frustrated, or angry- but just surprised.

I think that too many of us are worried about just "getting good" in the least amount of time possible. If you want to develop serious skill in a game such as counter strike, it depends on time and effort- not luck , and not easy and readily available weapons. This AWP nerf brought to attention to players that they cannot only depend on ONE weapon to do everything. While the AWP is still as lethal, it will take users much more practice before they can pick it up again with confidence.

My argument is as stated. I think that the AWP nerf was just, and I think that players should have to put more time and effort into the game to be able to master such a powerful weapon- which this nerf has done.
Debate Round No. 1
DamnDude

Con

Thank you for that pro :)

The AWP is one of the most powerful and controversial weapon in CSGO. It is an one-shot, one-kill weapons which is basically why people call it OP. First lets see the Pros and Cons of the AWP.

Pros:
1. One shot is an insta-kill unless shot at the legs.
2. It's long ranged weapon with a scope that can zoom twice
3. One AWP can change the whole course of the game.
4. You can easily defend huge places with just one AWP.
5. Ever since the 3/31/15 update, when scoped you make no sound while walking.

Cons:
1. It's bolt-action, making the Rate of Fire really slow.
2. It's heavy, making you move slowly(200 units per second when unscoped while the nerf made it 100 ups when scoped).
3. You need to stay still to be accurate.
4.It's really expensive ($4750) as it is one of the most expensive guns in the game.
5. The kill reward is really low ($100 per kill) giving you a lower economy when using it.
6. When unscoped it is inaccurate and compared to 1.6 quickscopes in CSGO aren't as accurate either.
7. The amount of time needed to be accurate when scoped is at least 0.4 seconds(giving enough time for Riflers to one-tap you) and firing immediately after reloading makes the shot inaccurate.
8. It's a situational weapon often discarded for a rifle in many cases
9. You can be easily flashed and overwhelmed if nobody is there to help you.
10.If you miss, you are probably as good as dead.

From what I just wrote you could say that the AWP is a High-Risk, High-Reward weapon as it is expensive and the kill reward is low, but in competitive the AWP serves the purpose to make teams guarantee victory as much as possible.

Now what did the nerf do to the AWP? All it did was reduce movement speed while scoped(from 150ups the update made it 100ups). Is that really a big change? YES IT IS. What the nerf did to the AWP was prevent players from doing Aggressive AWPing(like what KennyS does best) which was a style of AWPing that was hard and takes months practicing since AWPing itself isn't an easy task and makes peeking corners even much harder. It makes the game even more CT sided since T's can't risk peeking with an AWP in most cases giving then T's a harder time getting into a bomb site. This nerf also makes the game more campy than it should be making people rely on doing it even more, "It's a sniper rifle, they're supposed to camp" is one of the points people make of this but what is more important? Realism or Gameplay? The AWP was never overpowered, in fact it was perfectly balanced before the update. If the AWP was so "OP" why are teams not filled with 4-5 AWPers? Why do people still use rifles if the AWP was overpowered? All this nerf does is benefit riflers, campers and changing the meta, for the worse.

"How does giving riflers a better chance of killing an AWPer be a bad thing?"
Let's compare it to a game we all played as a child: Rock,Paper,Scissors.
Rock beats Scissors, Scissors beats Paper, Paper beats Rock.
Now this is how it's supposed to be and should stay that way. An AWPer should always or usually beat the rifler, not the other way around, just like pokemon: Fire isn't effective to dragon while dragon is weak to it's own type.

Now the effects of the nerf is that it changes the meta of the game that even the maps are effected since all these maps were made with areas for peeking. The AWP is already a risk using and they make it harder to use. It also effects the professional teams since many are based on the AWP picks(like Titan,Fnatic,etc.) and many players(even the pros) were complaining from steam to Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com... and https://mobile.twitter.com... . Now many AWPers hard work practicing their aggressive styles have now been wasted thanks to this nerf. Seriously, just imagine that all your hard work just vanished within one update....

" This AWP nerf brought to attention to players that they cannot only depend on ONE weapon to do everything"
No one ever depended on the AWP in winning. It can help you win but it will never fully guarantee it. The AWP is not something you can just pick up for the first time and say "I'm godly with this weapon"(unless you're playing with silvers). AWPing takes a lot of practicing, there is a reason why JW and KennyS are the best AWPers in the world..... But not the BEST PLAYERS of the world. Most of the top players of CSGO are RIFLERS, such as GeT_Right, some other peeps. These guys are at the top since CSGO is a rifle-dominated game and get more opportunities on killing enemies while AWPers can only get an angle. Although JW's aggressive AWPing is OP, it is the player not the gun. The AWP is just a tool, only the player decides how to use it. He chose how and is good at it. You can't nerf something just because one guy is too good at it, you nerf it if it's unfair and easily done by anyone. The player is good, not the AWP.

What about an alternative? The Scout! You see, the scout is supposed to be a weaker and cheaper alternative of the AWP. That's all it should be.

But we could adapt from these changes and simply go on with our lives right? No, the thing is the nerf was completely
unnecessary, it's like fixing something that isn't broken. They could have nerfed the AWP in a less-game changing way such as diminishing the amount of ammo per magazine. It's just really sad that they made something that took skill to use into a campyty-camp pile of garbage. CSGO is a competitive-Esport game that takes skill to play. Valve shouldn't make it easy for everyone, since it's supposed to be hard in the first place. That's why we have professional players, because they practice and practice ti'll they got good at it.

Now if what I wrote does not content you, let me introducing someone:
This is Thorin, a journalist and an expert Esport historian. He recently posted his opinion on the update on youtube. I think you should watch it since he does bring up various good points(the video is at least 18 mins long): https://m.youtube.com...

That'll be the end of my arguement. I wish good luck to my opponent :)

"We need to have an Icefrog-ish dev team at CSGO :/"
Reeseroni

Pro

No problemo Pal

The Pros and Cons to the AWP that you have listed are entirely credible; however, to say "You can be easily flashed and overwhelmed if nobody is there to help you." is suggesting that the player weilding the AWP is not accustomed to using it, otherwise it may be the best weapon for him to use inside his comfort zone. It is not difficult to have a one-man hold on a site. This is very possible on A site of de_Nuke, where a CT can easily sit on rafters with his AWP, and watch squeaky, hut, mini, and ladder all from the same place. While I may have not pulled this off before (or well enough for that matter) it does not mean that others are incapable.

Yes the speed of moving and strafing with the AWP was reduced, but for a good reason. If you were running around with a 60 or 70 pound sniper rifle, you would not be running at 10 miles per hour, you would be walking or maybe lightly jogging. This just makes it more realistic, as there already is no account for stamina in CS:GO. You can run and jump to your heart's content- and you won't slow down a bit. Making the strafe time with an AWP less than it is now is more realistic and makes more sense for a fps game such as CS:GO.

"It makes the game even more CT sided since T's can't risk peeking with an AWP in most cases giving then T's a harder time getting into a bomb site." Actually, does it? Sure the AWP is now a CT sided weapon now(also debatable), but lets be honest. The terrorists have overall a better loadout that the CTs. Lets take the ak-47 for example. It is a one shot headshot- and is a very accurate gun, which will shoot wherever you aim. This is like all other guns, don't get me wrong, but you can rely on the ak-47 more than your CT counter part-> the M4a4 or M4a1-s. Both main CT rifles are two hits, and they do not deal a one shot headshot like the ak-47 will. Pistols? The usp-s and p2000 have small mags, and are less accurate than the glock-18. Might I mention that the glock has a burst-fire option? This means that if you are right next to a CT and you have to reload your primary, pull out your glock on burst- and blow his brains out. If you aim towards the chest you will get a headshot from the recoil- simple trigonometry. Also, the tec-9 is a very good 2nd round buy or small budget buy. It is superior to its CT counterpart of the Five SeveN, because of the accuracy and power behind it. I will not mention the CZ as it is an option for both sides. Overall, the Ts just have better weapons. With their new disadvantage to the AWP for aggressive bomb-site taking, they will suffer a hit, but it is not a strong one. When taking a bomb-site, a T should not need an AWP. While holding a bomb-site while it's got a bomb set- an AWP can come in handy which will tie the gap of T-aggressive AWP and CT protective AWP. The CTs cant rush into B site now that the Ts are watching with AWPs can they? The AWP is a weapon more for strategy rather than just willy-nilly pushing site.

"If the AWP was so "OP" why are teams not filled with 4-5 AWPers? Why do people still use rifles if the AWP was overpowered?" Simple, not everyone is skilled with an AWP. An AWP was a very easy weapon to pick up and use pre-update, but now it takes skill and practice (more than normal). A team of 4-5 AWPers is a joke, as there is all power and no consistency here. Unless they are all highly skilled at using the AWP, it should be a very close game.(Counting on the idea that the other team has aks or m4s. To be honest, the AWP is not OP, it is just a very powerful weapon, and is meant to be. People would not give it up just because it is a fast kill.

"An AWPer should always or usually beat the rifler, not the other way around, just like pokemon: Fire isn't effective to dragon while dragon is weak to it's own type."
An AWPer will should not always beat a rifler. It is a pretty close 50/50 chance. Rifles are capable of prefire around a corner, or shooting multiple bullets from a mag, rather than the AWP which has a reload time that is crucial to gameplay. The AWP player would need to be able to see where the rifler is coming from, to be prepared. If a rifler already has a good idea on the AWPers position, while the AWPer is clueless, it may be a crucial fact for them both. The rifler could easily flash the AWPer if he does not know where the flash is coming from, or the rifler understands the CS:GO trigonometry (nade physics)- which could lead to the rifler getting the final frag on the clueless AWPer. It should depend on timing, skill, and preparation. "These guys are at the top since CSGO is a rifle-dominated game and get more opportunities on killing enemies while AWPers can only get an angle." You state it here yourself^.

"The Scout! You see, the scout is supposed to be a weaker and cheaper alternative of the AWP." The scout is actually a one hit to the chest without armor, and a 70 hit everywhere else (besides head), which is by far NOT a weak weapon. The scope is just more sensitive because of the lighter weight, which makes it a faster and well suited weapon to closer combat.

"They could have nerfed the AWP in a less-game changing way such as diminishing the amount of ammo per magazine." Actually, reducing the ammount of ammo in a magazine would be more diminishing to the AWP. A regular player should not need to go through more than maybe 20 ammo a game. By reducing the overall ammo in an AWP, you would reduce its usefulness and change it to worry. If a player has to monitor the amount of ammo that he had available to use, so that he does not go over, it would change the gameplay even more than just making it suited to one side of the game, rather than the other. You are suggesting a more in depth change to the game that would be more difficult to deal with, which basically nullifies that thought.

Thank you, and I look forward to your next arguements.
Debate Round No. 2
DamnDude

Con

DamnDude forfeited this round.
Reeseroni

Pro

I extend all arguments for the sake of Forfeiture.
Debate Round No. 3
DamnDude

Con

DamnDude forfeited this round.
Reeseroni

Pro

Pro forfeiture proves poor conduct.

Vote Pro!
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by iOS 2 years ago
iOS
Juan Deag.
Posted by alexng30 2 years ago
alexng30
As Thorin put it, CS:GO is a game, a game is not supposed to the the developers world where they can play god, its supposed to be a toolkit in which the players are provided with tools to do cool stuff. Aggressive awping is among that list of "cool stuff." It is not up to you or the devs to decide how WE as consumers and gamers should play our game. Frankly, the AWP is always superior as a defensive weapon when in the hands of equally skilled players, if a CT is holding a corner and a T peaks and they both have awps, the CT is virtually always at an advantage; this falls into line with your idea of how the AWP SHOULD be played. My personal playstyle is aggressive awping; however, I put in the time playing casual matches and DM to train my aim, game sense, and reflexes. Frankly, I believe I should be rewarded for my work, not have it all for nothing because Valve is so out of touch with both the pro players and their general consumers.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
DamnDudeReeseroniTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Mikal 2 years ago
Mikal
DamnDudeReeseroniTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff