The Instigator
swimmer825
Pro (for)
Losing
14 Points
The Contender
Tatarize
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

California Prop 8 supreme court should repeal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/22/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 881 times Debate No: 8389
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (5)

 

swimmer825

Pro

I believe that California Proposition 8 should be repealed by the supreme court on the grounds that it is unconstitutional. My evidence is the following excerpt from the California State Constitution:

"CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy."
Tatarize

Con

While I am absolutely in favor of gay marriage and gay rights and was very disheartened when prop 8 passed, your argument is completely wrong. You cannot declare a constitutional amendment to the California constitution unconstitutional. By definition prop 8 is constitutional as it was added (by proposition) to the California constitution.

In a few days or so there could well be a ruling on a legal matter as to whether the passing of Prop 8 was constitutional, but that argument could easily fail and by your opening statement is not addressed. That cited bit of text is the reason why gay marriage in California was struck down in the first place, but if you add it to the constitution it's constitutional... even if it's nothing more than simple minded bigotry.
Debate Round No. 1
swimmer825

Pro

My position Prop 8 is that it would fundamentally alter our state constitution's provisions of equality. If the Supreme Court were to allow Prop 8 to remain then it would mark a tragic day in history when seven people took away the rights of a group of people because of their sexual preference. In the case that the supreme court rules that it is constitutional then i would change my view to be that Prop 8 is purely based on religious views and not what is right.
Tatarize

Con

It does. It writes bigotry into the constitution. However, one part of the constitution isn't declared unconstitutional by another part. If an amendment is passed the new amendment either repeals or forces allowances of the old language. In this case Prop 8, partially nullifies the fundamental provisions of equality. I'm not saying that's a good thing or making judgments, rather I'm pointing out that it is what it is. Prop 8 is still constitutional by virtue of being in the constitution. The provisions of equality must make way for bigotry if passed later. The only thing which could nullify Prop 8 is if it violated the US Constitution or the proposition was passed in ways no allowed by the California constitution. The provisions of equality do neither.

Further, at this time I would like to add another inherent objection to the topic. The supreme court of either the US or California does not repeal laws. That is done by the houses of the various bodies. Rather the courts strike down and declare laws unconstitutional. This isn't repealing. It's like saying you think the Congress should pardon inmates or the president should levy a few taxes. It simply isn't something that that branch of government does.
Debate Round No. 2
swimmer825

Pro

swimmer825 forfeited this round.
Tatarize

Con

The California Supreme Court looked at the arguments against prop 8 and found it consistent with the California constitution. While I am firmly in favor of gay marriage the argument on the legality is thusly negated.

Arguments continued.

Thank you for reading.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
As I have time. I'm going to wait until after 10 tomorrow to post my final reply. The California Supreme court is about to repeal prop 8 as of 10:00 AM Tuesday, so I probably should take that into account.

Though, none of the arguments used in Swimmer's argument are part of that lawsuit.
Posted by Tatarize 8 years ago
Tatarize
I wonder is swimmer timed this so the end of the debate and most of the voting would hit just before the California supreme court decision is due out.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
swimmer825TatarizeTied
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Vote Placed by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
swimmer825TatarizeTied
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 7 years ago
Tatarize
swimmer825TatarizeTied
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Vote Placed by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
swimmer825TatarizeTied
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Vote Placed by untitled_entity 8 years ago
untitled_entity
swimmer825TatarizeTied
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