The Instigator
General-Z
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
near
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Can Raito Yagami from Death Note outsmart and defeat Lelouch vi Britannia from Code Geass?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/21/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 982 times Debate No: 59357
Debate Rounds (3)
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Votes (1)

 

General-Z

Pro

Assuming the two are put in the same world, initially lack knowledge of each other's true power, but still have the power they had in the anime they appeared in. I believe Yagami would manage to triumph over Lelouch since Yagami has accomplished much more with fewer allies and fewer resources. Lelouch's strategies involve his armed forces or luck to save him most of the time. Con may argue that Lelouch can easily eliminate Raito from the start using Geass. However, Lelouch would be unlikely to perform this unless if he sees the potential threat/usefulness of Raito. Therefore, after quite a while of investigating the opponent, Raito Yagami, will be the one to triumph.
near

Con

I believe this is just for fun so let's have fun.

Challenge accepted.
Debate Round No. 1
General-Z

Pro

Continuing my previous argument, although Lelouch vi Britannia won against the Holy Britannian Empire and even became its emperor, the Lelouch would have accomplished so little if he didn't have the Geass power. In the end of Code Geass, everyone despised Lelouch, whereas Raito Yagami gained the major support from the world, even from the American president. So Raito not only wins in intellect, but popular support as well, which can lower Lelouch's morale.
near

Con

Pro had defined the limits of the debate: "Assuming the two are put in the same world, initially lack knowledge of each other's true power, but still have the power they had in the anime they appeared in."

First off, the definition of same world isn't very clear so I am assuming that pro refers this to be the actual world we live in because Lelouch and Light definitely have lived in different worlds (refers to the manga/anime universe) in the story and putting them together to create one world doesn't make sense since both of their worlds have different problems.

Second, pro only specified that both will retain the power they have in the anime. This is very ambiguous as pro actually failed to be very specific with the scenario we are talking about since Light Yagami can be also named as Kira and L while Lelouch is termed Zero. However pro did mention that, "Yagami has accomplished much more with fewer allies and fewer resources", then I presume that we will also retain both qualities of the characters . Thus, the scenario will be taken from the normal stand that Light is Kira and Lelouch is Zero.

Not counting Light's series of blunders after L's death, Lelouch still has the upper hand and will definitely prevail given the two would have the chance for a face-off.

1. Light needs Lelouch's real name - One weakness of the Death Note is the mere fact that the user needs the person-to-be-killed name. Light doesn't have the capacity to determine's one name with just looking at his face. Assuming that both of will have a face-to-face, Light cannot kill Lelouch.

2. Assuming that both will do an investigation of each other, Lelouch would still emerge as victor. - Lelouch never reveals his face and takes on the persona of Zero. Not being able to see his face nor know his name, the death note stands useless. Also Lelouch holds two false identities, Zero and Lelouch Lamperouge. Pro might argue that Lelouch is a prince, however his identity is kept secret. Nobody knows of Lelouch's real identity except the Ashford Family, Nanali's maid and Suzaku. Pro might further argue that Light can use the Britannia family but take note that the Britannia family themselves believe that Lelouch is dead and so mostly likely even if Light can find out that Lelouch exists, he will never come to the conclusion that zero is Lelouch.

3. Just because Light has accomplished more (this is an assumption on your part, Lelouch's work cannot be equated with Light as both lives in different scenarios), using lesser resources doesn't strictly support the argument that he can triumph over Lelouch. Given the fact however that Lelouch has more resources, he can immediately determine Light's identity. Thanks to his underground network which the the latter does not have.

4. "Con may argue that Lelouch can easily eliminate Raito from the start using Geass. However, Lelouch would be unlikely to perform this unless if he sees the potential threat/usefulness of Raito." - This is irrelevant given the fact that Lelouch and Light will face-off without even knowing each other. Lelouch same goes with Light will eliminate anyone who gets in his way thus, both of them doesn't care who is who and will mostly just remove that person out of their way.

5. " Lelouch would have accomplished so little if he didn't have the Geass power. " - Same goes with Light again in fact, Light would have accomplished nothing without the Death Note. One must not forget that Lelouch had already planned what he needed to do without even receiving the Geass. While on the other hand, Light wasn't explicitly stating that he had a plan before hand. Light became active when he received the Death Note by chance but prior to that, he wasn't even motivated to do anything as he didn't know where to start.

6. "In the end of Code Geass, everyone despised Lelouch, whereas Raito Yagami gained the major support from the world, even from the American president. So Raito not only wins in intellect, but popular support as well, which can lower Lelouch's morale." - This is correct but both of them died differently, one died with victory in his hands and one died in vain. It is very important to note that Lelouch was willing to do everything to achieve his plans which includes defamation of himself. Lelouch was also willing to toss over pawns in his game to get what needs. Thus, whether being despised or not, the conclusion will weight heavier than the methods.

Conclusion: Light Yagami cannot win against Lelouch vi Britannia in a face-off where both of them do not knows their identity.

Addendum: Assuming that pro will declare that this is not the scenario and that both of them only lives as Lelouch and Light without their alter egos then I shall save my arguments for round three.

Sources:
http://deathnote.wikia.com...
http://codegeass.wikia.com...
http://deathnote.wikia.com...
Debate Round No. 2
General-Z

Pro

1. "Assuming that both of will have a face-to-face, Light cannot kill Lelouch." This statement is inaccurate since Light still can kill Lelouch whether it be indirectly or directly.
2. "Lelouch never reveals his face and takes on the persona of Zero. Not being able to see his face nor know his name, the death note stands useless. Also Lelouch holds two false identities, Zero and Lelouch Lamperouge. Pro might argue that Lelouch is a prince, however his identity is kept secret. Nobody knows of Lelouch's real identity except the Ashford Family, Nanali's maid and Suzaku. Pro might further argue that Light can use the Britannia family but take note that the Britannia family themselves believe that Lelouch is dead and so mostly likely even if Light can find out that Lelouch exists, he will never come to the conclusion that zero is Lelouch." Actually, there is a possibility Light can access information by deceiving those around him using his acting skills and emotional strength (as seen in episode 12). Therefore, the possibility still remains that he can establish a connection with the Ashford family or Suzaku.
3."Given the fact however that Lelouch has more resources, he can immediately determine Light's identity. Thanks to his underground network which the the latter does not have." Actually, Light did have access to the secret police investigating him after defeating L. It should also be noted that in multiple cases during the several Knightmare battles Zero engaged in risked losing his "underground network", since he sent the entirety of his allies to the battlefield. Whereas Light Yagami managed to keep his own secret force until his downfall.
4. "...given the fact that Lelouch and Light will face-off without even knowing each other. Lelouch same goes with Light will eliminate anyone who gets in his way thus, both of them doesn't care who is who and will mostly just remove that person out of their way."
Regarding this statement, Light builds his outer appearance in order to seem like a useful person, which of course helped him get closer into the L's inner circle. Therefore, Lelouch is more likely to treat Light Yagami as another Tohdoh or Kallen. There were reasons why Lelouch did not use Geass on his most important troops/marshalls. To add on, Lelouch's emotional strength isn't as strong as Light's. Lelouch nearly let his emotions triumph over his desires if Nunally is in danger and after Shirley's death where he actively plotted to assassinate Rolo but failed, despite having control over him. Lelouch knew that simply eliminating Rolo would cause distrust among the Black Knights. It should also be mentioned near the end of R1 of Code Geass, Lelouch immediately left the battlefield simply over hearing of Nunally's kidnapping. This caused him to lose the battle of Tokyo (ending the Black Rebellion) and lose his Geass power as well (until CC restored it).
5. Valid argument.
6. " This is correct but both of them died differently, one died with victory in his hands and one died in vain. It is very important to note that Lelouch was willing to do everything to achieve his plans which includes defamation of himself. Lelouch was also willing to toss over pawns in his game to get what needs. Thus, whether being despised or not, the conclusion will weight heavier than the methods." All I have to say about this is that there are methods that need to be performed in order to reach conclusions.
Sources:
http://codegeass.wikia.com...
http://deathnote.wikia.com...
near

Con

To avoid redundancy, I will only state my rebuttals. Refer each number as accordance to each point in the arguments presented above.

1. Correct but the mere fact again that Light does not know Lelouch's real name will render the Death Note useless. Pro has failed to rebut this, I reckon that the user of the notebook needs to have the face and the name of the person to be killed and mere fact that Light does not know Lelouch's identity shows that he is incapable of defeating the latter.

2. "Actually, there is a possibility Light can access information by deceiving those around him using his acting skills and emotional strength (as seen in episode 12). Therefore, the possibility still remains that he can establish a connection with the Ashford family or Suzaku." That is correct, however even if Light does. What good will it make him? He would't go that far unless he is sure that Lelouch is Zero and that he is a hindrance and by the time Light arrives into such conclusion, Lelouch can simply control Light without even having the need to know his identity as Kira.

3. Light being all working in the dark? I wouldn't say so. If at that time, L and Near both just killed Kira, the case would have ended. Both the Wammy geniuses have already hunches that Light is Kira and yet decided not to do anything until a solid proof is found. Now imagine if Lelouch was there and his principle is not on proving Kira is Light but rather killing Kira. Remember Lelouch killed Clovis despite the fact of Clovis' innocence?

4. Light also has an emotional side in which he failed to kill his sister when Mello used her as a trading tool to get the notebook. It isn't a matter of having emotions or not, the case is why would Light kill Lelouch and vice-versa. You mentioned that Lelouch will only kill Light if he finds the latter useless or a threat, then I may ask the Pro and the voters, isn't it the same for Light? Unless Light can see Lelouch being a pain in the way, he wouldn't even bother mingling with he person.

5. No rebuttals needed.

6. You basically agreed with my point. Thus, it is not enough justification to say that a coercion with the US makes Light a better person than Lelouch because both used different strategies while one emerged victorious and the one died in humiliation.

Conclusion: Whether Light meets Lelouch in a face-to-face or not scenario, he would still not be able to kill the latter as he simply lack the idea and motivation to do so. Although apparently it's all about moving first, however given both scenarios, it is imminent that Lelouch has always the upper hand due to the limitation of the Death Note.

Sources:
http://deathnote.wikia.com...
http://deathnote.wikia.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
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1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
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Reasons for voting decision: 6:2 sources.