The Instigator
jo021698j
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
KhalifV
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points

Can a homosexual be a christian?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
KhalifV
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/19/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,557 times Debate No: 59202
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)

 

jo021698j

Con

No. A homosexual cannot be a Christian. The only way for a homosexual to inherit the kingdom of God is repentance. Repentance from his/her ways. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." This is one verse that clearly states that homosexuals will not inherit heaven and the Holy Spirit. Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." Again, another verse that condemns homosexuality. What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah, two cities that had practicing homosexuals? Were they rewarded for their acts? NO! They were destroyed!
KhalifV

Pro

Con has made a number of unsubstantiated assertions:
1. Homosexuals can't go to heaven(assuming heaven exists)
2. Homosexuality is immoral
3. The bible is true.
I'm not going to deal with these, but notice how his view is influenced by these presuppositions.
I wonder if Con really thinks homosexuals deserve death. Such a view is laughable.

Well since con didn't give any real arguments, I'm not going to overkill the argument

1st Point: Omnipotence:

In Christianity god is omnipotent.

Omnipotent:"(of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything."
So if it is the case god is omnipotent, he can do anything, including allowing homosexuals into heaven:

P1: An omnipotent god exists
P2: There is nothing an omnipotent god can't do
C: An omnipotent god can allow gays into heaven.
(This is purely on the basis of omnipotence, however if con can effectively tackle the prior syllogism, I will add in omnibenevolence and I will win 100%/).

Nature:
P1) If an omnipotent god exists and created the universe(natural and super-natural), he created it according to his will.

P2) All natural occuring events (in regards to natural laws and natural events), happen to his will.
P3) If homo-sexuality occurs naturally, it happens of god's will
P4) Homosexuality is natural
C) Homosexuality happens according god's will,and wouldn't penalise them.(True by virtue of omnibenevolence)

Defense of P4:
I don't have to even defend it in regards to humans, it shall be more effective in regards to non-humans.
Animals that do not pass the mirror test are not self-aware, so there acts are natural, by default.

Animals exhibiting honosexuality:
1. Rams
2. Laysan Albatrosses
3. Barn Owl
4. Koala
5. Lion
6. Brown Bear
7. Anole
8. Wood Turtle
9. Dog
10. Bison

These are 10 non-self aware animals that display homosexuality. I think this is a good basis for thinking homosexuality occurs naturally. There's no reason to think it is selective in humans and natural and all other animals.

Semantic Argument :):
Christian:A Christian (About this sound pronunciation ) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
(
Technicially I can just find 1 gay follower of jesus, I win, but that's too easy)

What did jesus say about homosexuality?:

“Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12)


Eunuch has a different meaning in this context. ." This terminology ("born eunuchs") was used in the ancient world to refer to homosexual men.

Argument from politics and biology:
P1)Babies who have a parent in the church are counted as christian.

P2)If homosexuality is natural, some of these babies are homosexual.
C) If they are homosexual via genetics and christian by P2, then the baby is homosexual and christian.

Sources:
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 1
jo021698j

Con

I'm sorry I haven't responded. I have been delayed because of certain responsibilities. First of all. In response to the omnipotence claim. God is omnipotent, but also omniscient, meaning ALL KNOWING. He knows all things. The way they are and the way they should be. Explain this to me. If God clearly states in HIS word that homosexuality is a SIN, then why in the world would he just give up on this statement and say, "Oh, well, I will abandon everything I have ever taught my children, and let them live their life." Here's a question. If a murderer attended church, and claimed to be a Christian, but kept on murdering people and got away with it, would that truly make him a Christian? I mean, God clearly states murder is a sin, and people don't like murderers. But for some reason, homosexuality is a big sin just like murder, but people are ok with it. It makes no sense. Homosexuality is not normal and natural. God states in his word that it is a practice. And in regards to your statement about "homosexual animals", I say this. Even if there are homosexual animals, which I haven't even heard of, we are humans... Not animals. And if you believe in evolution, well that is a whole other topic. But God created animals with certain qualities, and us with certain qualities. I mean, I'm not a giraffe or lion. I'm not even closely related. They're another SPECIES! That doesn't mean homosexuality occurs in men and women! And in regard to your eunuch statement. DO YOU KNOW WHAT A EUNUCH IS? A Eunuch was created in a king's palace because he didn't want men going around sleeping with the women of the castle! They weren't homosexuals! The verse "and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.", is stating that men who wanted to abstain from sexual intercourse with women because of certain temptations, became eunuchs so that they would never fall. Again, homosexuality is a practice, not a natural thing. Where is your PROOF of homosexuality being normal in humanity?
KhalifV

Pro

Responses: Con did not respond to my political argument.
My omipotence point was that god could let homosexuals into heaven.
P1) God can do anything (True by virtue of omnipotence)
P2) Only Christians get into heaven (Asserted by the bible)
P3) God can let somehomosexuals into heaven (True by virtue of omnipotence)
C1) some homosexuals are Christian (Natural consequence)

Con Says:
"God is omnipotent, but also omniscient, meaning ALL KNOWING. He knows all things. The way they are and the way they should be. Explain this to me. If God clearly states in HIS word that homosexuality is a SIN, then why in the world would he just give up on this statement and say,"Oh, well, I will abandon everything I have ever taught my children, and let them live their life."


This isn't a does god exist debate? But for the record god can't actually be omnipotent or omniscient. Well all that means is that the bible is non-sense. It contradicts itself. However according to the verse I quoted, you're commentary is inaccurate.

Homosexuality is natural:
This seems to be con's main contention. He states:" Even if there are homosexual animals, which I haven't even heard of, we are humans... Not animals. And if you believe in evolution, well that is a whole other topic. But God created animals with certain qualities, and us with certain qualities. I mean, I'm not a giraffe or lion. I'm not even closely related. They're another SPECIES! That doesn't mean homosexuality occurs in men and women!"


Well first I should have to say you have not studied any ethology ever. So you're saying because you're not really closely related to those animals, you can't be naturally homosexual? Ok I'll except that but what about the Bonobo? We share 99% of their DNA. So is there homosexuality in Bonobo's?
A female-female pair of bonobos interact sexually (c) Zanna Clay for Amis de Bonobos du Congo

YES.
High ranking female Bonobo's invite low ranking Bonobo's to have sex. [Sex] is used to reduce stress and competition, develop affiliations, express and test social relationships and for reconciling conflicts and consoling victims in distress.
So you are extremely closely related to these homsoexual Bonobo's.

Factors Of Human Homosexuality:
The size of the INAH3
Xq28 gene:An analysis by Hu et al. duplicated and refined the prior findings. The study revealed that 67% of gay brothers in a new saturated sample shared a marker on the X chromosome at Xq28.
Hormonal fluctuations. Increases in stress correlated to increased homosexuality.
. In 1990, Dick Swaab and Hofman reported a difference in the size of the suprachiasmatic nucleus between homosexual and heterosexual men.

Conclusion: It seems to be the case that homosexuality is natural. So why would a god outlaw homosexuality eventhough it's natural. But it seems jesus(the central Christian figure) doesn't say much about it. This is why Christianity is almost untenable. This is what I feel I'm looking at, when studying Christianity: Convoluted Rube-Goldberg Machine -.-



http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://news.sciencemag.org...
http://www.bbc.co.uk...

Debate Round No. 2
jo021698j

Con

jo021698j forfeited this round.
KhalifV

Pro

FF.
I proved homosexuality was natural.
Also to suggest homosexuals can't be Christian because they sin, is to suggest Christians don't sin, which is false.
Homosexuality is perfectly fine. :)
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by CountCheechula 2 years ago
CountCheechula
God created Homosexuals, it is a natural thing where a liquid is missing in the brain. God said in Exodus to force gays to reproduce and keep a strong healthy Jewish society. God accepts gays, as long as they have faith in him. You can be forgiven of all sins and homosexuality is not a sin.
Posted by jo021698j 2 years ago
jo021698j
In response to Exrey... Your last statement is very true. If all of us lived in sin without repentance, then none of us will inherit the Lord's kingdom. But I do have a question for you. Do you think that homosexuality is naturally given in birth?
Posted by KhalifV 2 years ago
KhalifV
Why would god make more problems for someone? Homosexuality is natural.
This is why the Abrahamic god is incomprehensible
"In Abrahamic contexts, sin is the act of violating God's will."
Well if everything naturally acts according to god's will and homo\sexuality is natural, then homosexuality is in accordance with gods will. It's just so convoluted. It's a damn rube goldberg machine!!!!
Posted by Exrey 2 years ago
Exrey
Anyone can be a christian, gay, straight, murderer, addict, whatever. The criteria is not what you are when you come to Christ, but what you become IN Christ; a child of God. It's a matter of whether you are willing to recognize yourself as a sinner of some kind or another, and give that up for His sake. We are all sinners, children of wrath, and gays are no more condemned than the rest of us. They may have a harder time dealing with it, as homosexual behavior is explicitly forbidden, but the basic attraction is just an aspect of the fallen nature. Love and sex are tied so intimately to marriage that it's understandable that they would fight to reconcile faith with their orientation. And debating whether it's a choice or a genetic trait is irrelevant. Besides, even if they weren't gay, they'd still be sinners in one way or another. It is not helpful to focus so narrowly on that one aspect of a person. We all have things to repent of. I know that the laws are changing, and public opinion is quickly turning toward acceptance, but unfortunately, God's mind will never change on this topic. So whether a homosexual can be a Christian is really tied to their view of themselves and God. If they are willing to forgo homosexual activity and relationships for a relationship with God, then yes, they can be Christian, whether their orientation changes or not. But if they think that God will accept them while practicing a homosexual lifestyle, they will be sadly mistaken.
Posted by Brendan_Liam 2 years ago
Brendan_Liam
bibically, sodomy means being 'impolite to outsiders' thats what they were guilty of. And this offense called 'sodomy' ranged from failing to say 'hello' to a visitor, to anally raping them.

But a sodomite is a person rude to strangers/outsiders, that's what it really means if you actually studied the bible=-most christians can't argue 1 point about the bible, it's frightening.

With the correct definition of 'sodomy' in place, i'm sure we can all agree that the true sodomites, are of course chrstiians.

Also, matt, mark, and lluke all reveal that chrstianithy only has one rule-it's the easiest religion in historyy ot practice-pehraps why it's also the most immoral philosophy ever. theres only one rule you cant break and you hear it in their words, in between their sophistry and lies-you must accept the zombie god as the one true god and your savior-if you dont do that, you go to their hell, whichc is fine as it's the only alternative to hanging out with the sodomites for all eternity. But sorry, gays won't be punished, only non-christians.
Posted by KhalifV 2 years ago
KhalifV
He scared! lol
I'm 3 good at debating <3
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
Good one, khalifv

I will vote on this btw
Posted by guylaquit 2 years ago
guylaquit
This is a ridiculous debate. Of course a homosexual can be a christian if he doesn't mean to be homosexual. God doesn't hate homosexuals, he does however state that no one should perform homosexual acts. Perhaps a homosexual is chosen by God to live a solo life. If a gay were to perform a homosexual act, then it would be a sin like any other that could be repented and forgiven, but homosexuality itself is not a sin.
Posted by KhalifV 2 years ago
KhalifV
Lol that's exactly what I was gonna say. It's biological and I was catch him on the family technicality
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
Take my other comment, KhalifV!
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by YaHey 2 years ago
YaHey
jo021698jKhalifVTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: FF.
Vote Placed by I-AM-AWESOME 2 years ago
I-AM-AWESOME
jo021698jKhalifVTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: jo021698j's argument is poor.