The Instigator
Tminusfour20
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
BoggyB
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Can anyone justify 2 Kings 2:24 ?

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
BoggyB
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/6/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 557 times Debate No: 69561
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)

 

Tminusfour20

Con

Read the verse and accept my challenge if you have a moral justification for what the verse reads.

I am under the impression that someones feelings were hurt and they used the power of God to maul 42 children.
BoggyB

Pro

Hello, I accept and will justify and explain to you this verse. Let's start with this: 2 Kings 2:24:

"He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys." (2 Kings 2:24 NIV)

Let's start a little before this and examine who Elisha was. Elisha was a prophet and man of God who was taught by Elijah. Elisha sucessed Elijah when Elijah was taken up into heaven by God in a chariot of fire. After this occurred, Elisha remained a prophet and traveled many places. [1]. Not too far off from Elijah's departure is when 2 Kings 2:24 occurrd. Elisha was entering Bethel when he was heckled and verbally abused by a group of 42 boys. According to 2:23 it says they yelled "get out of hear baldy." Other translations say "go on up bald head." So let's recap, Elisha is entering Bethel when a group of more than 42 people show up to greet him. there is dispute to the age of the boys, but it is likely they were young men, or juveniles. This could be from 13 to 18, of all shapes and sizes. For the over 42 people to group together as a mob to heckle a specific man, it is unlikely they were just children goofing around. These where young men who knew what they were doing and were malicious and hostile. This mob was mocking the prophet they knew Elisha to be, by calling him a bald head and telling him to go on up. Go on up was referring to Elijah's departure into heaven. They wanted Elisha gone and never to be seen again, because he was a prophet and believed in God. They may have been implying for him to go die. When call him bald head it could mean more than just being physically lacking hair. We don't know for sure, but it is very likely it is an insult derived from the lepers who had shaved heads. [2]. It could have been actualy baldness, but for over 42 young men to gather and berade a man for being bald is ridiculous to be frank. Now we know the context of the situation: Elisha entering a Bethel, hostile group/mob insulting him for being a prophet, and at the same time insulting God. Elisha recognized they're lack of respect and fear for him or God, and called down a curse on them. Now, we all know that Elisha isn't God, and cannot being down a curse directly on to the group. Elisha merely called for it. It is unlikely that Elisha specifically said some phrase that called for bears to come out, but rather condemned the young men for their despicable actions of hate. God was the one who summoned the bears out to then kill 42 of the group. God is all knowing all powerful. He created the world and all that is in it. He created man in his own image. "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:27 NIV)." God commanded man not to sin, but Adam and Eve sinned and brought it into the world. All men became sinful after this, but they where without excuse. "For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Romans 1:20 NIV)" He gave man the Ten Commandments and commanded to obey them and to obey him. He layed out the penalty of sin and neglect to obey Him. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23 NIV)." God created man and had authority and gave commandments. The penalty of disobeying the commandments and neglecting God in your life is death, as described in Romans. God has the ability and power to take life whenever he pleases, and Is just in doing so, for he created man. God doesn't need any other reason other than sin and lack of repentance to condemn anyone. God was just in killing the group, regardless of what they did, but it is easier to understand after I have given you the context of the situation. For whatever reasons He may have, God justly brought death upon the group at that moment in time rah tree than later in their lives. Either way he was just in what he did, for man is without excuse.

[1] http://m.chabad.org...

[2] http://www.gotquestions.org...
Debate Round No. 1
Tminusfour20

Con

Tminusfour20 forfeited this round.
BoggyB

Pro

Con forfeits and fails to make any arguments or refute any of mine. All arguments extended.
Debate Round No. 2
Tminusfour20

Con

Tminusfour20 forfeited this round.
BoggyB

Pro

Con forfeits again, and concedes. All arguments extended, please vote pro. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by rextr05 2 years ago
rextr05
I'm not the opposing debater & I thought that's what the comments section is for. I just responded to your "So when god kills it is ok? I don't buy that," & thought I'd explain your misconception since you were so one sided & mistaken regarding some of your comments & evidently your ideas.
Posted by BoggyB 2 years ago
BoggyB
T-420, this could be debated in the actual debate, not the comments. It's what this website is for, is it not?
Posted by rextr05 2 years ago
rextr05
T-420, & know that the dude called out the curse to bring the she-bears out. It's not told as God just had done this on His own. Yes, Elisha cursed the teens in the name of the Lord & God most likely responded with the bears, but it may also tell us to be careful for what we wish or ask for, cuz the results may be more dire than we anticipate. Man initiated the curse, that's an important aspect of this story. & also it may be an allegory to teach on many levels.
Posted by rextr05 2 years ago
rextr05
T-420, did you even read my comment to you b4 replying? Where did I say I condoned anything? I even stated that it may just be a story (allegory) emphasizing my last 2 sentences. Or do you just like to antagonize to make your point?
If it were a true story, then it's not up to me or you to say it's right of wrong. I am sure neither one of us likes what is depicted here. If true & literal then God had His reasons & I do not attempt to fathom His reasoning cuz ............ just say there is a God & He had the means to create the universe along with all the physics that control everything & He had created all that with the one Big Bang with just thinking it into being. Oh yeah, an entity as omnipotent as that & I'm going to say He's got it wrong? & I'm not asking you to believe, I'm asking you to think just for a sec IF there were such a being ...... are you going to question His motives?
Posted by Tminusfour20 2 years ago
Tminusfour20
So when god kills it is ok? I don't buy that.
Posted by rextr05 2 years ago
rextr05
There are many passages in the bible that are used to teach & reflect upon for the ages. Some are literal & some allegories. We don't know the real from the metaphorical ones for sure. & some interpretations of this say they are young men, late teens & probably more than 42 of them. The kids that were mauled were not only mauled for their disrespect & probably more than just verbally abusing him, they were also killed to show that the parents were lax in bringing their kids up as disrespectful & malicious. Thereby advising the reader not only to act with respect to others, especially elders, but to make sure parents bring their kids up in a proper way.
Posted by Tminusfour20 2 years ago
Tminusfour20
@fasttrack I don't think it's very nice for god to call on a bear to kill 42 children. I would feel better if the man did it but why would God do such a thing? Why would I want to worship someone like that or respect the people who he protects in that way just for being made fun of by children?
Posted by fasttrack 2 years ago
fasttrack
Whoever is using that to justify their actions is wrong. The Bible just says the man called a curse down. Then two bears came out. God let the bears come out, not the man.....
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
Tminusfour20BoggyBTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit