The Instigator
AtrueloveforGod
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
redwings17
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Can we believe the bible?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/10/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 832 times Debate No: 35484
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

AtrueloveforGod

Pro

Do u think that we cannot believe the bible? Join me in a debate of contradicting opinions and facts and be challenged to the edge of your seat.
redwings17

Con

We as humans can believe whatever sacred text we choose to, considering we have a free mind to do so; but i'm assuming that's not what you meant. As a collective race and individually, essentially every human being seeks to entertain two goals in life: survival, and a high quality of life (through subjective means). If we choose to believe in the bible, these two things cannot come to fruition, especially in the utilitarian sense. This is true for three reasons: The bible promotes hate, murder, and ignorance.

1. As far as hate goes, there are numerous examples of it throughout the bible, for example the condemnation of homosexuals:

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

2. Murder is everywhere in the bible, not only on a petty, individual scale:

"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death." (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

But also, on a mass scale:

"This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)"

3. Ignorance comes in many forms in the bible, but more specifically to science, for instance the story of Noah's Ark which is pragmatically impossible. And even if you take a story like that as allegorical just the very premise that an all powerful being created the universe in 6 days is entirely unsupported and absurd.

So if our interest as a race is survival and a high quality of life, subscribing to the horrific ideas of the bible is not a good plan and therefore we can't believe in it, at least not justifiably .
Debate Round No. 1
AtrueloveforGod

Pro

When you walk outside in the morning and you feel the wind hit your face but you don't see it you never seem to think about the fact that you feel it or you know it's real but yet you can't see it or nor do you have physical proof that you can hold in your hand and 100% prove that it is wind. But why when you read or even listen to anything about the bible you never think about how true it is. No you were not there when the events happened and you cannot see them with your own eyes. There is the book, the words that GOD spoke himself are there ready for u to hold in your hand and touch and understand and study. So why when you feel the wind you believe it is true and you can feel it, but when you read or listen to something in or about the bible you do not believe it. Yet there is EVIDENCE; even physical that it is true and real. YOU CAN EVEN HOLD IT IN YOUR HAND AND READ IT AND STUDY IT. Why?
redwings17

Con

Just want to note that nowhere in your blurb did you address any of my arguments or claims which indicate you either didn't read it, or you has no counter arguments, both of which are detrimental to you in this debate so i'm good with it.

As for this wind analogy, it is completely ridiculous. The "wind" you feel when you walk outside in the morning is oxygen (at least I hope so), a scientifically well understood gas, we know where it comes from, and why it is there (air currents). The bible, however, is an ancient text written by iron age peasants who were extremely ignorant to science and the world. The claims made in the bible are unsupported by any evidence whatsoever,as is the existence of God. So how can you compare the wind which we know exists to the bible which is just simply a book? Also not being able to "see" wind with the naked eye doesn't mean it's existence isn't provable, atoms, cells, bacteria are all things we cannot see with the naked eye and are proven to exist.

Also, you can literally make that argument about ANYTHING by just replacing the subject of the sentence with something else, here let me modify your previous post:

"When you walk outside in the morning and you feel the GAMMA RAYS hit your face but you don't see it you never seem to think about the fact that you feel it or you know it's real but yet you can't see it or nor do you have physical proof that you can hold in your hand and 100% prove that it is GAMMA RAYS. But why when you read or even listen to anything about the GOOSEBUMPS BOOK you never think about how true it is. No you were not there when the events happened and you cannot see them with your own eyes. There is the book, the words that R.L.STINE spoke himself are there ready for u to hold in your hand and touch and understand and study. So why when you feel the wind you believe it is true and you can feel it, but when you read or listen to something in or about the GOOSEBUMPS BOOK you do not believe it. Yet there is EVIDENCE; even physical that it is true and real. YOU CAN EVEN HOLD IT IN YOUR HAND AND READ IT AND STUDY IT. Why?"

That argument with my words subbed in is every bit as valid as your previous one. What makes the bible special? NOTHING, just because the book that says it's right and it's god's word doesn't mean that it actually is. With your logic I could write a book saying that it is the word God god that we must all kill ourselves, and you would have to do it. Saying you're right doesn't make you right, so no, "feeling it" isn't good enough to make one believe in the bible.
Debate Round No. 2
AtrueloveforGod

Pro

You want me to address your debate? Okay! You just keep quoting the old testament. You say the bible "Promotes hate, ignorance and murder. But never did you quote his ten commandments or John 3: 16.
You quoted Exodus 21:15. One of God's ten commandments is to honor thy father and mother. Another one of the ten commandments is "Tho shalt not murder." So if you murder your father and mother which is not honoring them then you shall be put to death. That is not murder, it is punishment. Also in the bible God talks about how having sexual relations with a person of the same sex is wrong. So if you break that law he has given you on purpose, then you need to be put to death. And God says that he loves everyone even the homosexuals but he hates the sins he commits. It is not hate. They are disobeying God's commandments. And there is a verse in the bible that talks about how anything is possible through God. God commanded Noah to build the ark and through God's power, Noah created the ark.
redwings17

Con

The New Testament is full with equally horrible things, we can cherry pick good verses and bad verses from the bible all we want but at the end at the day it does have some good things in it, but it also has a lot of horrible things and if you've actually read the bible there's no denying that.

Murder is defined as premeditated killing of one human being by another. You have done a great job at pointing out one of the many glaring contradictions in the bible, because one of the commandments is not to kill, yet as "punishment" for other more petty commandments being broken you are permitted to kill. Seems a little messed up doesn't it? And don't tell me that it is just simply punishment, what so if I go and kill a child because he/she looked at me funny then it's not murder right? It's just punishment isn't it? I mean the kid looked at me in a way in which I did not like so it's his own fault. NO, god tells you to never engage in premeditated killing but then permits you to do it, which is completely inconsistent.

Well obviously God doesn't love the homosexuals, if he is making it his command that what they are doing is a sin and they will be sentenced to hell where they will burn and die and suffer in pain for all of eternity, that doesn't sound like love to me. Also if God created everyone and since homosexuality is something you are born with, why bother to create them in the first place? If they are committing some horrible sin why create them in the first place? Seems pretty sick and sadistic to me, but that's God for you.

Just saying that "Noah created the ark." doesn't prove anything. Something like that is impossible and you can't convince anyone in their right mind it happened just because "anything is possible through God", well that means nothing because there is no evidence for God's existence in the first place, so how can I trust that? Provide me with evidence for God (which is impossible) before you start using his omnipotence as an argument for which something happened.
Debate Round No. 3
AtrueloveforGod

Pro

If you are a homosexual that is a sin but if you will not go to hell for that. God hates that sin you are committing but you will not be sent to hell for it. If you admit to God u are a sinner and you understand he died on the cross to save you from your sins and u ask him to come into your heart then you will not go to hell. You will enter the gates of heaven. When u sin you do not go to hell. When you rebuke God you go to hell. And there is proof God is of existence. What do u think a monkey created u, or a big boom sounded and u appeared. When u lived (or u still do) with your parents they set rules for u, correct? Well those rules came based off what they thought was best for you. And God made rules to help guide u thru life. If there are rules their has to be a creator of the rules and the creator of the earth and rules is God. And to be honest, Christians are no more better than u. We all, EVERYONE deserves to go to hell yet God loves us so much we don't have to. And you believe in hell but not in heaven, who created hell then? And it is true, whether you believe it or not, everything is possible through God. Who do you think told Noah to build the ark? How did all the animals and people survive it?
When God comes at the end and a trumpet sounds God says every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is lord, Christ the savior.
redwings17

Con

redwings17 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
AtrueloveforGod

Pro

AtrueloveforGod forfeited this round.
redwings17

Con

First of all sinners go to hell, that is the entire point of hell, if you break god's rules and disobey his law and "sin", you go to hell as punishment. Homosexuality is regarded as a sin in the bible, and from my quote earlier in the debate is supposedly something one should be put to death for. You may not think homosexuals should go to hell which is good, but don't try to twist things around because the bible does think they should go to hell.

Secondly, you use the fact that rules exist as a proof for good which makes no sense at all. "God's rules" did have a creator, and it was people that made them up. There has been thousands of gods throughout human history, what makes yours special? You could replace your christian god with Allah and be referencing the Quran in your arguments and everything you have been saying would be equally valid.

Also no, I don't believe we were created by monkeys. That is not evolution that is a complete straw-man. Evolution is a scientific fact so it is already proven that all of this can come about without a god, and I suggest you learn about it because you decide to talk about it. There is no material evidence for god and there's plenty for evolution.

I'll shortly address the rest of your stupid claims:

"And you believe in hell but not in heaven, who created hell then?"

I'm not sure where you got that from I never once said or even hinted at that, I don't believe in either heaven or hell.

"And it is true, whether you believe it or not, everything is possible through God"

Where's God?

"Who do you think told Noah to build the ark? How did all the animals and people survive it?"

Again, we're working under the assumption that god exists which there's zero evidence of. Even so, the story of Noah's ark isn't even meant to be taken literally, it's an allegory. But even if you did take it literally, it's completely impossible. Get owned
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by redwings17 3 years ago
redwings17
I was gone the past few days so I wasn't able to respond to your last post so I will a bit here.

First of all sinners go to hell, that is the entire point of hell, if you break god's rules and disobey his law and "sin", you go to hell as punishment. Homosexuality is regarded as a sin in the bible, and from my quote earlier in the debate is supposedly something one should be put to death for. You may not think homosexuals should go to hell which is good, but don't try to twist things around because the bible does think they should go to hell.

Secondly, you use the fact that rules exist as a proof for good which makes no sense at all. "God's rules" did have a creator, and it was people that made them up. There has been thousands of gods throughout human history, what makes yours special? You could replace your christian god with Allah and be referencing the Quran in your arguments and everything you have been saying would be equally valid.

Also no, I don't believe we were created by monkeys. That is not evolution that is a complete straw-man. Evolution is a scientific fact so it is already proven that all of this can come about without a god, and I suggest you learn about it because you decide to talk about it. There is no material evidence for god and there's plenty for evolution.

I'll shortly address the rest of your stupid claims:

"And you believe in hell but not in heaven, who created hell then?"

I'm not sure where you got that from I never once said or even hinted at that, I don't believe in either heaven or hell.

"And it is true, whether you believe it or not, everything is possible through God"

Where's God?

"Who do you think told Noah to build the ark? How did all the animals and people survive it?"

Again, we're working under the assumption that god exists which there's zero evidence of. Even so, the story of Noah's ark isn't even meant to be taken literally, it's an allegory. But even if you did take it literally, it's complet
Posted by mrsatan 3 years ago
mrsatan
Gotta love some good ol' fashioned fear mongering...

I'd like to believe there's a heaven, but to believe a god, who is supposedly all sorts of good, would send people to burn in hell for all eternity, simply for not worshipping said god... Well, that's just silly.

Do you not realize that whole concept basically amounts to calling your own god EXTREMELY petty? Not really a godlike trait, now is it?
Posted by AtrueloveforGod 3 years ago
AtrueloveforGod
Really? You do not read the bible to get entertainment or a laugh. You read the bible because it is the truth and when the world ends and Jesus comes. Unless u can say u actually read and believed and trusted the bible then u are going to HELL!!!! The end of the world will come and God says that "every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is God."
Posted by brandoncheatem 3 years ago
brandoncheatem
No. The bible in not a reasonable reference source. During the time of its creation/ author little was known about the actual world. It is mostly bronze fairytale, with no real applicable or concise substance, morale or wisdom. Also has very poor entertainment quality.
Posted by sweetbreeze 3 years ago
sweetbreeze
Yes, believe the Bible.
No votes have been placed for this debate.