The Instigator
rock022
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Jokerdude
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Can we change the vote???

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/18/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,011 times Debate No: 2767
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (6)

 

rock022

Pro

In short.... if all the votes go to one person...... Why have so many diferent, primaries and caucuses??? Would it be better if the US would have one primary for the presidential candidate, and one election for the president, Having the popular vote win? In a little note: How can we the people change this electoral voting system? Because I do not know!
Jokerdude

Con

I'm going off the fact of you wanting to change the system, let me know if I'm wrong but here we go

1. The main reason we have the system we do goes back to the colonial days and the founding fathers wanted to prevent mob rule. Mob rule is when the popular group of people are temporarily swayed one way only to choose a different side shortly later. This is a problem during the elections because people may pick a candidate who is appealing but might not have the best policies.
Ex. If Paris Hilton or someone of that nature runs, everyone loves her so she would be elected

2. Also a vast majority of voters are uneducated on politics so to have a popular election would be bad too, this kinda ties to the point above

3. In general Primaries are more effective than popular votes it is what helps shape our democracy and seperates us from other countries.

Ill get to some arguments later but I have like a minute until I forfeit so sorry
Debate Round No. 1
rock022

Pro

You are absolutely right. However the method was established before TV, Radio, Telephone and Internet.

Article II of the Constitution:

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector."

And it wasn't until the early 1800's that the Electoral College was establish, and many people in power where grandfathered in just because they were white.

Today we still use the same system. Amendments have been made to clarify who is eligible to vote, and nothing on how to ensure every vote counts.

Take the 2000 elections for example…

Stay with me on this numbers.

The popular vote difference between Gore and Bush was 543,816. But the electoral vote difference of 5 made Bush the president. That means each electoral vote counted for 108,763 people. Between both Bush and Gore there were 537 total electoral votes, and a total of 101,464,036 votes counted. If you divide electoral to popular votes, you get 188,964 people per electoral vote. Going by this numbers, the electoral vote should have been Gore 269 and Bush 267.

Now my point is:

The whole nation is voting on one person to represent the United States of America. Why do we not count every vote? If Paris Hilton where to run for the white house, the media would burn her. I do not think she would make it, but that does not make Gore an ignorant person to run the nation. For the record I am a republican, the statements I made are not to defend the Democrats, but the rights of freedom and to get our voices heard. Every Vote should count!
Jokerdude

Con

So out of that entire monologue I got this

"Everyone should count"

Starting on that

1. Everyones vote does count, in the system we are in it augments each individual vote in order to proceed with more ease. For instance it is to balance states like Wyoming with the least number of people and California with the most, it is a way to try to fairly balance the people in the US

"However the method was established before TV, Radio, Telephone and Internet"

2. This is totally irrelevant and if you believe otherwise please divulge

I'd also like to pull across all the other augments made above which were dropped
Debate Round No. 2
rock022

Pro

Ok on your first round views:

1.The means of communication at the time the system was invented was very slow, and of course it was carried. Just think of the many ways vote fraud could have been achieved? Mob Rule! And don't forget the people who could not vote. Yep, it was not perfect but a good system for the era.

2.The un-educated vote happens at all levels. People vote on the issues and knowledge on the subject. Even in congress, by only stating the facts needed and just not reporting the whole information a vote could be done by pure ignorance. However today many people are interested on the vote. They get the information trough TV, Radio and news papers. That was the only reason I pointed this in the earlier round.

3.General primaries are a joke. Come on, how many times do all states have their voice heard? Let' see… Nope nothing comes to mind because after the first states, usually the nominee is captured. Now, if the primaries would be done just like the main election, every vote would count. Just by changing the primaries to a one day event, yep it would be a less debatable subject.
Should candidates have more "air" time just because the polls say they might win?

Rudy Giuliani was the front runner for many months, what happened? People started to vote!

But how much time did the media spend preaching on how good or bad Giuliani would be as president. Media bias!!!! I do not know, but the last republican debate on CNN should have been called >>>"The McCain/Romney interview"<<< I thought there were four candidates on the stage, and it was just an argument between McCain and Romney, I wanted to hear more on how they plan to Fix the issues if they where president, not why they think they are better qualified. To be a candidate on any of the political parties, they all qualify for the job; it is up to the people to choose the one they want.

By having delegates then the votes do not count. It is not about who won it what state or not, it is about who won the nation since he will be our representative. You mention Wyoming with their 3 delegates. Ok so if the Democratic Party won the state, what happened to the republican votes? They lost; they do not need to be heard?. They will be heard if you count every vote as a total.
Jokerdude

Con

"Travel was slow and that mob rule is a joke because of fraud

1. Travel is the most irrelevant thing but if you want to debate that then by all means. Even though travel is faster it still doesn't detract from my original point that mob rule is always a possibility especially in todays world of pop culture. If someone has enough fame then they would always be a candidate.

"Uneducated votes happen and people without all the info are ignorant"

2. Yes uneducated votes happen at all levels same with a lack of information and this is why I pointed out why a popular voting would be an even worse choice. This ties in above with pop culture because most people would vote for someone they thought was cool not based on policies. Ex. Hilary Clinton- women

"States never have their voices heard:"

3. Really so that would be why we created the house of representatives and the senate. The states get their voices heard in many ways. The way we do things allow smaller states to be heard at an equivalent level to those of larger states.

4. Just to knock on the idea, over 31 million people voted on American Idol last night and 61 million voted in the 04 presidential election. This feeds to my points above. http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Really long monologue" Ill address with my own really long monologue

5. In the origin of presidential elections they used to announce their candidacy 3 months before the election. This was in order to allow fairness for all and made it easier for everyone in the country. In todays world candidates announce their candidacies as soon as the previous election is done. Since this is the way things work people do choose their candidate much sooner than in the past. And I'm sorry your front runner lost so quickly but thats no fault of our system.

6. As a final note I'd like to point out how my opponent hasn't given any reasons why the current system is bad just how he is advocating for something different and if somethings not broken why screw with it?
Debate Round No. 3
rock022

Pro

rock022 forfeited this round.
Jokerdude

Con

Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame Lame

Vote fore me for the reasons above and due to his tardiness
Debate Round No. 4
rock022

Pro

rock022 forfeited this round.
Jokerdude

Con

Still not answering Still not answering Still not answering what a waste of time to do this and my time is valuable
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by rock022 9 years ago
rock022
Apologies, I was exhausted yesterday.

In short, I disagree with the vote system we have in the United States of America.
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
I'm not quite sure what you are advocating here. I would like to take it, but not really sure.
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Vote Placed by PreacherFred 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by smith76 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by blond_guy 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by birdpiercefan3334 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Jokerdude 9 years ago
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