The Instigator
Reese_G
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
A-True-Saint
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Can you be a Christian and believe in Evolution (the scientific theory)

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 499 times Debate No: 68171
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

Reese_G

Pro

Over the years, people on opposite ends of the science/ religion spectrum such as Ken Ham and Dawkins have created a harmful and unnecessary divide between religion and science. As with most issues, the radicals on the opposite ends of the spectrum are the loudest and most heard. However in this debate I will be giving voice and supporting the more moderate position; that one can be a Christian who believes in an all powerful God and an infallible Bible, without rejecting modern science and modern scientific theory's such as Evolution.

I wish my opponent good luck.
A-True-Saint

Con


My opponent asks if one can be a Christian and believe in Evolution. The simple answer to that is no. If you are a true Christian, you’d know that the Bible clearly states not to believe in any science, philosophy, genealogies, etc…


Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Titus 3:9-10 - 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;


1 Corinthians 2:13 - Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


1 Corinthians 2:6-10 - 6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:


7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:


8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


1 Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:



These are just a few verses/precepts to Colossians 2:8. The reason why true Christians should not believe in any science what so every is because it causes confusion and it causes you to doubt HIS existence. If you need physical proof that The Most High does exist, then you don't believe in HIM nor do you have faith in him. Hebrews 11:6 states, "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him." So if you do not have faith, you are not pleasing HIM. Science basically says there is no God. All science can give us is a bunch of predictions and guesses.



I ask my opponent this question.


Can you give me some observable evidence that Evolution is true? Something I don’t have to recieve by faith.


Debate Round No. 1
Reese_G

Pro

I would first like to point out to my opponent that this debate is about Evolution (the scientific theory) so any points made about philosophy or genealogy are irrelevant and meaningless.

However those verses could be applied when talking about the foolishness of people who reject everything about science. It is understandable that some people reject certain parts of science (evolution for example), but it is extremely foolhardy to reject science in its entirety. Science saves countless lives around the world every day and has facilitated the development of our society and the world. Without science we would be living in a constant fear of possible dying because of getting a small cut or a cold. Also, nowhere in the Bible does the Bible say to reject science.

As far as your assertion that science exists merely to prove that God does not exist, this is utterly false. While this "purpose" might be assigned to other fields such as philosophy, it is by no means the case in science.

I would like to make a clear distinction between the commonly confused Philosophical Evolution (Evolution as an all encompassing theory that needs no God) and the Scientific Evolution (which only seeks to explain what happened after a certain instance in time, The Big Bang, and not before then). The scientific theory of Evolution actually breaks down and reaches a singularity at the instance where time begins. Therefore it can not and does not attempt to explain what happened before this event or who/what put all the necessary conditions in place for the Big Bang to occur.

As far as your request for me to offer you evidence that Evolution is true, I believe this is not my responsibility as the burden of proof lies with you. It lies with you because 97% of scientists believe in the scientific theory of Evolution. (2009 poll by Pew Research Center). I will not try to prove Evolution is true because I am not a scientist. However I will turn to the experts on the subject to inform my decision.

Bringing the debate back to the main argument I would like to point out another somewhat startling statistic. Just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God (Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in May and June 2009). This evidence should speak for itself in showing how it is possible to both accept the scientific theory of Evolution and God.
A-True-Saint

Con

I would first like to point out to my opponent that this debate is about Evolution (the scientific theory) so any points made about philosophy or genealogy are irrelevant and meaningless.

(Evolution, philosophy, and genealogy are all part of science, which for a true Christians 1 Timothy 6:20 says to stay away from science. 1 Timothy 6:20 - O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called)


As far as your assertion that science exists merely to prove that God does not exist, this is utterly false. While this "purpose" might be assigned to other fields such as philosophy, it is by no means the case in science.

(Science actually does say that god does not exist and that the universe was created by evolution or the big bang.)

As far as your request for me to offer you evidence that Evolution is true, I believe this is not my responsibility as the burden of proof lies with you. It lies with you because 97% of scientists believe in the scientific theory of Evolution. (2009 poll by Pew Research Center). I will not try to prove Evolution is true because I am not a scientist. However I will turn to the experts on the subject to inform my decision.

(My opponent states that it is my BOP to provide proof that evolution is true. I am not the one who believes in evolution, that is the reason why I am CON/AGAINST in this debate. If my opponent cannot answer the question I asked and provide any proof or evidence that evolution is true, nor can scientist, then it is clear that evolution is not to be studied by Christians, as it is false. With no proof that evolution is true, it would indicate that it is false.)

Bringing the debate back to the main argument I would like to point out another somewhat startling statistic. Just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God (Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in May and June 2009). This evidence should speak for itself in showing how it is possible to both accept the scientific theory of Evolution and God.

(This does not say that The Most High says you can believe in Evolution or any Science, et cetera. If my opponent can provide proof of his claim the Christians can believe in Evolution, then I would agree with him/her. With no proof or evidence, I cannot agree.)

Because my opponent is PRO/FOR Christians believing Evolution, it is my opponents BOP to provide evidence or proof, that Evolution is true. So I ask the question again.

Can you give me some observable evidence that Evolution is true? Something I don’t have to recieve by faith.

Debate Round No. 2
Reese_G

Pro

Regarding the verse you have repeatedly brought up 1 Timothy 6:20, I think that you are understanding the last part of the verse wrong. Rather than it instructing you do disregard all of science, it means that "Religion has nothing to fear from true science, and the minister of the gospel is not exhorted to dread that. Real science, in all its advances, contributes to the support of religion; and just in proportion as that is promoted will it be found to sustain the Bible, and to confirm the claims of religion to the faith of mankind" (Barnes' commentary)

By the way, without science we would not be able to be having this debate so if you so strongly oppose science you should probably not be on this debate website anymore.

As far as proof that you can be a Christian who accepts science and Evolution (the scientific theory not the philosophical one without a God) a perfect example is the pastor Tim Keller. Timothy J. Keller (born 1950) is an American pastor, theologian and Christian apologist. He is best known as the founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City, New York, and the author of The New York Times bestselling books The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism,[1] The Prodigal God,[2] and Prayer.[3] ( http://en.wikipedia.org... )

Although you so desperately want me to prove that Evolution is real, this is not the purpose of the debate. The debate is whether or not you can believe in Christianity and Evolution, regardless of whether Evolution is true or not. However I would think that the fact that 97% of scientists believe in Evolution would be substantial proof and evidence.

While I respect my opponents views and arguments, I think that it is obvious that I am the winner of this debate. While I refuted my opponents only evidence and support for believing that you cannot be a Christian and believe in Evolution (the scientific theory) Timothy 6:20, by explaining how he simply misunderstood the verse, my opponent was not able to refute any of my contentions and arguments. Mistakes made by my opponent such as saying that "true Christians should not believe in any science what so ever" and consistently getting off topic and sidetracked by arguing about whether or not Evolution is true also contributed toward my opponents defeat and my victory.

I would like to thank my opponent for being willing to participate in this debate and I hope that I may have possibly shed some light on this matter, giving a voice to the desperately under heard moderates in this debate.
A-True-Saint

Con

A-True-Saint forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by UndeniableReality 2 years ago
UndeniableReality
Oh I see. It's a more correct way to say elohim? I though that was a plural term, gods, in Hebrew.
Posted by A-True-Saint 2 years ago
A-True-Saint
That is correct. Christians claim there "God" is of the Bible, but there "God" is an all loving "God" the ALAHYM of the Bible, is not an all loving ALAHYM, yet HE allows salvation for the gentiles.

ALAHYM is Hebrew for "God"
Posted by UndeniableReality 2 years ago
UndeniableReality
"Catholics as all religions have their own gods. They don't have the ALAHYM of the Bible."
- Therefore Christians also have their own god, no? Also, what's an alahym?
Posted by A-True-Saint 2 years ago
A-True-Saint
The Pope's people are demons. Look at it, Catholics as all religions have their own gods. They don't have the ALAHYM of the Bible. Where in the Bible does it say it is ok for a priest to molest children!? They are wicked and evil as hell. The Pope himself looks like a devil.
Posted by Stocker 2 years ago
Stocker
Even the Pope believes in evolution
http://www.newsweek.com...
'
Posted by Esiar 2 years ago
Esiar
Well, wherever I made a mistake, I was saying this:

This is not Biblical: http://i.telegraph.co.uk...
This is Biblical: http://www.halleethehomemaker.com...
"

"
Posted by Reese_G 2 years ago
Reese_G
That is not true. You are confusing the Scientific Theory of Evolution (Darwin) with the All Encompassing Theory of Evolution (philosophical)
Posted by Esiar 2 years ago
Esiar
It depends on how you define Evolution. Evolution is Biblical in the sense of changes over time and micro-evolution, but Darwinian Evolution is not Biblical.

Genesis 1:24 says, "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.". Biblically, living creatures only bring forth after their kind (Micro-Evolution).

Is it Biblical? Yes for Micro-Evolution, no for Darwinian Evolution.
Can a Christian believe Darwinian Evolution? Yes, but they would be wrong in the Biblical sense.
Posted by A-True-Saint 2 years ago
A-True-Saint
I would also like to thank my opponent for hosting this debate, and good luck to you as well sir/ma'ma :)
Posted by thinkingofall 2 years ago
thinkingofall
This is a favorite topic of mine, unfortunately, I have formed my views fairly strongly on the pro side of the argument. I assume the pro side of the argument is that one can be a christian and believe in evolution
No votes have been placed for this debate.