The Instigator
rp3galla
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
labarum
Con (against)
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0 Points

Can you be gay and Christian?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/28/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 792 times Debate No: 55613
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

rp3galla

Pro

Is it possible to be gay and Christian? The homosexual agenda is a movement that has become in a way... a religion in its own right. The pride center has come to be the churches. The pride parades, have become the holidays. The gay people it's congregation. But on the other hand there are Christians and also with in the Christian faith there are a number of gay people in the church on both sides of the issue. There are ex-gays who claim to have freed themselves from the jail cell that is the sin of homosexuality. There are also those with in the church that have said yes to same sex relations, yes Pastors, Priest and Bishop. The question here isn't whether being gay is a sin or not. The question here is sin or not set aside, is it possible to be gay and Christian.
My first point of contention revolves around the most renowned bible verse in the world. John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He sent is only begotten Son so that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but receive everlasting life.' I believe that this verse holds all the required criteria to be a Christian. First of all, lets ask a question. What is this verse telling us to do? That's easy. To believe in Jesus. What action did Jesus do? Die for our sins. There are no exceptions in this verse. God so loved the WORLD. This is a general term meaning all of us. But this verse isn't about us though it's about Jesus. It's what Jesus did for all of us and that we believe that He is who He said He is that makes us thats with a lower case us that makes us Christian. Nothing that we did. Therefore because of this truth it is possible to be gay and Christian.
labarum

Con

To clear something up, by gay, do you mean they are gay and do gay things but are still a christian; or they are gay but do not do gay things and are christian?
Debate Round No. 1
rp3galla

Pro

Does it matter? You're asking if they are gay and they still sleep with the same gender? Because you could argue that just by a man crossing there legs like a woman that is a gay thing. Or if a boy likes rainbows that is a gay thing and a lot of people will even say that this is gay. But it doesn't matter really. Because deep down we all sin on a daily basis. It's not difficult to fall under a sex fantasy. That is lustful and lust is a sin. Don't lie we all do it. The good thing is that even while we sin God is merciful and graceful enough to still bless us with the gift of our lives. He still breathes his own air into our lungs every second of every day. Romans 5:8 'But God demonstrated His love for us in this, while we were still sinners Christ died for us.' We are the antagonist in this verse. But God still loved us enough to send His only Son to die for us. While we were still committing fornication and pedophilia and murder and left and lying. Just the simple fact of knowing that Jesus came for us is the only thing that makes us Christian.
labarum

Con

Well yes it does matter. Also, when I said "They do gay things" it was pretty obvious that that meant gay sex. men crossing their legs isn't gay and neither is a boy liking a rainbow. That is just something associated with the current movement. To be gay but not commit the act of romantic intercourse in the same sex or attempt, is far different than to be gay and to commit the act of romantic intercourse of the same sex. The former would be an act of adultery and fornication, both of which are spoken against in "1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," This former kind of homosexuality is not permitted, the latter and abstinent is.
Debate Round No. 2
rp3galla

Pro

I am rebuting to both the argument posted my the contender and the argument posted by forgiven also. The question isn't whether homosexuality is wrong. Or if gay people will go to heaven. The question posted is it possible to be gay and christian? The question also was not is there such a thing as gay Christians. Yes, through your scriptures there is no doubt that homosexuality is a sin. That is; the act of homosexuality is a sin. Question to those who read this argument? Have you ever looked upon a man/or woman and had sex fantasies about them. Or maybe just out of the blue? Matthew 5:8 "For I tell you that any man that looks upon a woman with lust has already committed adultery in his." The British Sexual Fantasies Research Project reveals that 96% percent of adult males fantasize about sex while 90% of adult woman fantasize about sex. You may say well I never fantasize about sex!!! You may be lying but I can't read your mind so I would have to take your word for it. Speak of the devil, this is one that none of us can deny that we do on a daily basis. This statement was also made by the one commentary "I don't call myself a Liar Christian?" For this portion of the argument, I am going to be referring to the Book of Acts specifically Acts 5:1-11 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife"s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles" feet. 3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn"t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn"t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God."5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. 7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?" "Yes," she said, "that is the price." 9 Peter said to her, "How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also." 10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events." I will be honest I copied and pasted this from bible gateway.com and this is from the NIV as is Matthew 5. Now this passage of scripture, this couple was doing as all the disciples and followers of Christ were doing at that time; as directed by Jesus himself in Matthew 19:21 to the rich man "Sell all you own and give to the poor, then come and follow me." Ananias did this kind of. He sold all he owned and gave most of the money to the poor. Peter knew that he was lying when he said that he gave all his revenues to the poor. When Peter wasn't mad at him for not giving all he owned to the poor he was mad at him for lying. The interesting thing is the statement Why would you do such a thing? In the NLT it's put in this way Why would you lie about that? Peter also said you weren't just lying to men you were lying to God. Then Ananias heard this and dropped dead. So my next question, have you ever been asked how you are and replied fine when your really not fine. Or maybe even replied to a woman who asked if I look okay and told her yes when she really didn't look that great at all. "Well those are just white lies." According to this passage the bible doesn't differentiate. Now my point by pointing out all these sins. We all do commit these acts in our daily lives whether we realize it or not. When we talk about homosexuality the common set of mind in this decade is to love the sinner and hate the sin. This is the only topic in which we use this phrase. We rarely talk about this when it comes to an alcoholic or a fornicator. When we think about a gay person coming into the church, we expect them to stop all acts, thoughts, and reasons right then and there BEFORE coming to Jesus. Yet there is forgiveness of sin when it comes to relapses with a drug addict. I will refer back the scripture in my last contention. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Our faith rests on Jesus not by our works but His. And by first believing that Jesus died for our sins that is the moment that salvation arrives then the journey for freedom begins. This ends my rebuttle and final statements.
labarum

Con

labarum forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Forgiven 3 years ago
Forgiven
rep3galla, "Maybe it takes a while for it to sink in that his lifestyle is a sin. " While I could see a very short amount of time that he would not know, I don't think that it is hidden within the Bible that homosexuality is a sin. From what I could tell, this man doesn't seem to be a new Christian. I feel like he should probably know...I didn't know that about the United Methodist Church or Episcopalian (I don't know much about their beliefs). I don't understand why they would support it, because like I said, it's not hidden that God says it is wrong. The part I really don't understand it, "Maybe God hasn't yet revealed the truth under what seems to be the truth but isn't." I have a hard time following what that means.
Posted by rp3galla 3 years ago
rp3galla
Maybe it takes a while for it to sink in that his lifestyle is a sin. They could be growing up in the United Methodist Church or even Episcopalian. They support same-sex relationships. Maybe God hasn't yet revealed the truth under what seems to be the truth but isn't. Ever think of that?
Posted by Forgiven 3 years ago
Forgiven
rp3galla, I looked him up, but most of the stuff just about his divorce with his husband, so it wasn't very helpful. I have a problem with the way you worded your comment, though. When you say, "just so happens to be gay," you make it sound like a coincidence or something he can't control. It sounds weird to say that someone is a Christian, who just so happens to be a murderer. They are both sin, so they morally are the same thing. It seems that this man is a comfortable homosexual. He embraces his sin. I don't think that is right or something that a Christian would do. I don't really believe that it's our position to judge. However, I do question how he can live a life of sin willingly and still claim to be a Christian. It's like a thief who comes to Jesus, but he just so happens to be a thief so that's what he does (steals things). Has he really accepted and understood the gospel? Does he know that he is living in a way that his Savior doesn't want him to live in? Does he realize that he is accepting what brought an innocent man to the cross? I just can't wrap my mind around that being true repentance. It makes no logical sense that we would turn our lives around for Christ, but hold on to a specific sin of ours as if it isn't wrong if you do it because you're a Christian. I don't think that a true Christian would be identified as gay because that is directly against God. I wouldn't consider myself a liar, though I have lied. I am against lying! I know that that it's not right! I try to not do it. I try to resist temptation of it. That's why I wouldn't say I'm a liar, because giving myself that title is accepting the role of being one. I think that this entire debate may be hypothetical! Perhaps I am still confused on being gay and Christian. It makes no logical sense to be a murderer and Christian or a thief and Christian. It's just Christian. Just a forgiven sinner who knows what they have done is wrong, and tries to live the right way for the King.
Posted by rp3galla 3 years ago
rp3galla
A person is a Christian, who just so happens to be gay. Such as Bishop Gene Robinson.
Posted by Forgiven 3 years ago
Forgiven
rp3galla, You say, "But yet then even if they become straight. They'll fantasize about the opposite sex with still is a sin." You are referring to lust, correct? You are saying that no matter what gender a person is attracted to, they will not be able to control themselves. That's not necessarily true; everyone has different struggles. I may be more tempted to murder, while you may be more tempted to steal. We're different. Back to lust, though. If a person cannot control their lust, then their answer is found in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 7:9 says, "But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." It's better to marry than to lust is what it is saying (I do believe). I'm not saying that nobody ever lusts or that there is an easy solution to every sin. However, we should flee sin! We shouldn't accept it like, "Oh, I was gonna sin anyways, so who cares?" We should try our best to prevent it. A lot of your response I either didn't understand the reference, the relevance of, or I had a hard time understanding it grammatically (and I apologize for all that). However, I'm pretty sure that we still haven't reached an agreement on what, "gay and Christian," means. So once again, I ask you to define it.
Posted by rp3galla 3 years ago
rp3galla
But yet then even if they become straight. They'll fantasize about the opposite sex with still is a sin. What about denominations that believe that the bread and wine is just a symbol? Or that believe that women are aloud to serve as leaders of the church. Or believe that men aren't the head of the woman? What about a denomination that doesn't believe and birth control? No one pays attention to these things that the bible clearly points out. Or does it? Then this one thing that everyone is so against you cannot simply be to love Jesus. It's not Gay Christian. Its gay and Christian. Rather a Christian who happens to be gay. Loving Jesus, is the only criteria that needs to be met.
Posted by Forgiven 3 years ago
Forgiven
rp3galla, I just read your most recent update. Can you please define what being "gay and Christian" means? I can't speak for others, but I feel like maybe we aren't thinking of the same things. The way it sounds is that they are dwelling in their sin and accepting it, which I don't believe follows the true characteristics of a Christian. If you could outline what it means to be gay exactly. Like I said, it sounds like they would be embracing this homosexual life style and still claiming to be Christians. I find this contradictory because if a murderer who embraced and accepted his role as a murderer, no intentions of giving it up, identified himself as a Christian, I believe that he would be giving Christians a bad rep. I don't believe that Christians are perfect, I believe that Christians should know that they are NOT perfect! I believe they should be willing to admit they aren't perfect, and should try to overcome their life of sin. A life of sin is not one that God wants us to be living. When Jesus saved the woman from being stoned in John 8, He told her, "Go now and leave your life of sin." I think we should be WILLING to put forth our best effort in giving up our life of sin for God. Identifying someone as, "gay and Christian," to me, just doesn't sound like someone who is doing that. That shouldn't dwell in homosexual behaviors or thoughts (as best they can).
Posted by discomfiting 3 years ago
discomfiting
I know many people who are gay and don't reject their sexuality because of their religion AND are Christians. Can they, yes. Saying they can't because they sin would mean nobody is. Everybody sins, you can't have an absolute morality on one sin you're not urged to commit, but have relative morality for ones you do; like swearing, lying, eating shellfish, pork, and other things.
Posted by Forgiven 3 years ago
Forgiven
It does matter if they are openly gay and are accept the fact that they say they are attracted to the same gender or if they just have homosexual desires. Remember, Jesus was tempted, yet never sinned. So it's whether you act on your temptations or not. I may have a temptation to lie and tell my mother that I did my homework, but if I tell her the truth, then I have conquered my temptation. I have NOT sinned (in this scenario)! Also, I wouldn't consider myself a liar Christian. I wouldn't say that I'm a murderer Christian, either. So why do we say there are gay Christians? For a Christian to be gay, and okay with that, though...I have a hard time believing that they truly understanding what Jesus has done for them. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong, so why do we believe we can be open about it and say it's not? That's like saying...well, I'm tempted to sin everyday, and Jesus loves me, so I might as well sin everyday. I don't think that's a good way to spread the gospel nor a smart way to live! Sin disappoints God, so why should we say that there's no problem with living in sin willingly? I'm not saying any of us are perfect, I just don't believe it is okay to "settle" or "get comfortable" with our sins. The Bible says flee sexual immorality! I don't believe that there is any sin that God can't help us overcome the temptation of if we truly try to with Him. Homosexuality goes against God, and we should strive to follow God! We don't get to decide what's right and what's wrong. If God didn't mind homosexuality, He wouldn't be against it! But He says that it is wrong. That should be enough for us. I have nothing against homosexuals, just homosexuality. No sin is too bad to be forgiven, but if we truly accept His forgiveness, I think we should be willing to give up our old life of sin for the King!
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