Debate Rounds (5)
This debate will be over the plant Cannabis. It will be about whether it's "safe" or not, what it's legal status should be, medicinal uses about it, etc.
I feel it is okay to use in moderation and has medicinal uses. Mathgeekjoe will be arguing against this.
Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Arguments only
Rounds 3-5: Anything else
Cannabis does around the same harm as caffeine does, possibly less. While the DEA may have classified it to being as bad as heroin, it is clearly not the case. Heroin addiction is severe, Heroin can cause halluciations, heart issues, collapsed vines, etc. The side effects of Cannabis are more comparable to caffeine. Millions of people drink Coffee which contains a lot of caffeine. However, caffeine's side effects are a faster heart rate, anxiety, restlessness, tremors, sleeping issues, etc. Cannabis's side effects include paranoi, uncoordination, disability to drive, alertness, etc. Why should caffeine be legal for a 4 year old to take but marijuana is only legal in 4 states and more strictly regulated?
Due to anti-drug movements and the criminalization a little bit ago, a lot of propaganda about drugs has spread around. Some may say that Cannabis can cause more lung damage than alcohol, cancer and other issues. There's even a myth about it being a "gateway drug." That being said, most drug addicts start by eating fried chicken. Should we neccessarily call fried chicken a gateway drug?
Cannabis has many medicinal uses. The main medicinal effect I will be getting into right now is it's anti-tumour effect. Cannabinoids have been tested in labs to kill cancerous cells while leaving healthy cells alone. Current cancer treatment methods such as chemo or radiationtherapy technically kill everything, not just cancer cells. Current cancer treatments can provide severe side effects. Cannabis has some effects but they are nothing compared to current cancer medicines.
Cannabinoids have been tested to kill cancer cells. Many people report success with getting rid of cancer with usage of cannabis. Smoking or vaping marijuana may not be the best method but using it orally usually has more success with medicinal uses.
Abuse vs Moderation
There is a difference between using Cannabis normally and abusing it. Smoking it every day or a few times a day without a proper medical reason may not be the best idea. However, occasional usage is not that bad. People drink alcohol, a drug way worse than marijuana in moderation. Yet, many alcohol users seem to be just fine.
Cannabis is also not physically addictive. People can argue that it's addictive but it's only about as addictive as going to parties. Heavy usage of cannabis may cause withdrawal symptoms while quitting. That being said, using it once doesn't risk you getting hooked the same way Heroin or Crack might.
If Cannabis is legalized, it can be regulated to make sure it's not cut up with other drugs. Black market marijuana may sometimes be cut up with other drugs. If it were legal, that could be prevented from happening.
Cannabis causes much more harm than caffeine. The active psychoactive compound in marijuana is THC. Recent studies have shown several negative side effects. Such as marijuana increases likeliness of mania symptoms. (1) It changes the structure of the brain. (2) It causes permanent loss of memory (3,4) It also is an immunosuppressant (5).
The Pro-marijuana movement's propaganda has spread a lot of myths. You hear that marijuana isn't addictive yet it has an addiction rate of 9%. (6) They claim it is harmless yet it causes several harms which I stated above. And they claim it isn't a gateway drug yet recent studies prove otherwise. (7)
Cannabis does have several medical uses but that doesn't excuse using it recreationally or medically without a doctor's permission. My opponent claims that it has an ant-tumor effect, this isn't true for all cancers and for the average cancer marijuana actually has a negative effect.(5) There are certain compounds in marijuana that can help with brain cancer but they work better when combined with radiation therapy. Opponent claims that we should replace radiation therapy with marijuana which is just plainly a bad idea. (8)
Tobacco is currently regulated but drug dealers still sell them to minors. If there is a black market for cigarettes then definitely there would still be a black market for marijuana. Legalizing marijuana causes another problem. With marijuana legal, more people would be using it with other recreational drugs, such combinations are dangerous, addictive and even lethal.
The so called mania cannabis causes might not be entirely true. Many intelligent and influencial people whom used marijuana never experienced any of these symptoms. While it may increase the chance by a little bit, there are many upsides to cannabis aswell. People have used this drug for thousands of years mainly in China and other surrounding countries. The so called "brain changes" may not be negative changes. The study had clearly confirmed why these brain changes are bad. Your brain rewires and changes itself all the time. Even if they were bad, it was a study done on 40 people. The study had basically took 20 non-users and 20 users of Cannabis. While this may hint at some things, the study can't be taken entirely seriously. Those were just a few people as there are millions of others. Studies that take a few people and examine results are not entirely accurate. There could easily be other factors impacting the cannabis users. 20 cannabis users may not entirely represent everyone.
The next two claims you made about permanent loss of memory likely apply to heavy cannabis users. The summary of the study clearly stated "Teens who were heavy marijuana users" in the 3rd source. In the fourth source, the title cleary stated "Heavy marijuana users." There is a difference between casually using marijuana and binging on it. There are people whom use alcohol occasionally and then there's alcoholics. I'm not saying marijuana is completely harmless, i'm not denying there are people addicted to it either. I am just saying that you can't assume everybody whom uses marijuana uses it several times a day.
There are people whom are addicted to it but marijuana itself is not physically addictive. Marijuana is in fact far less addictive than caffeine. The gateway drug myth has been debunked several times. Alcohol is more of a gateway drug than marijuana.
I have included a reliable source on Cannabis's anti-tumoural effect. The source that mathgeekjoe is not as reliable. It also seems you have only pulled sources from one website. The source I included on the anti-tumoural effect in this round is more reliable than sciencedaily.com. There are in fact people whom have ditched radiation/chemo therapy and used cannabis oil instead. I included one source about a 24 year old whom ditched chemotherapy and used cannabis instead.
Tobacco is not really regulated by the government because tobacco companies put thousands of chemicals in cigarettes. Most of the stuff in cigarettes isn't even tobacco in the first place! Legalizing marijuana would not increase usage. USA has one of the highest drug usage rates even though they criminalize drugs more than any place in the world. Marijuana usage in the Netherlands for example is way lower than in USA.
Geniuses that used Marijuana
Clearly marijuana can't ruin someone's life if many geniuses have used marijuana casually. People like Usian Bolt, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Shakespeare and some other people have all used pot ocassionally.
While there may be downsides to marijuana, remember there are also health benefits. It has therapeutic benefits, it can treat depression, enhance creativity and etc.
This statement is logically incorrect. It states that cannabis may not cause mania because "intelligent and influencial people" used it. This is just as illogical as someone claiming the arctic isn't warming because it is cold. Just because the arctic is still cold and the people who take marijuana don't suffer from mania, doesn't mean that the arctic isn't warming and marijuana users don't suffer from increase mania.
Quote-Even if they were bad, it was a study done on 40 people. The study had basically took 20 non-users and 20 users of Cannabis. While this may hint at some things, the study can't be taken entirely seriously. Those were just a few people as there are millions of others. Studies that take a few people and examine results are not entirely accurate. There could easily be other factors impacting the cannabis users. 20 cannabis users may not entirely represent everyone. -end quote
I agree with my opponent that a study of 20 users isn't enough. I believe more research should be done on the effects of marijuana in the brain. But for the time being, this study gives ample warning that marijuana could be very harmful for the brain.
"The gateway drug myth has been debunked several times. Alcohol is more of a gateway drug than marijuana. "
This comment contradicts itself, he claims that marijuana isn't a gateway drug then he claims alcohol is more of a gateway drugs than marijuana. I have shown evidence that marijuana increases impulsive behaviors thus is a gateway drug.
Quote-I have included a reliable source on Cannabis's anti-tumoural effect. The source that mathgeekjoe is not as reliable. It also seems you have only pulled sources from one website. The source I included on the anti-tumoural effect in this round is more reliable than sciencedaily.com.-end quote.
My opponent has claimed that my source was unreliable. Sciencedaily.com is a news site for recent scientific studies, the info on the site is from actual studies. For instance an International team of immunologists led by Dr Prakash Nagarkatti from the University of South Carolina research why marijuana may cause a person to be successable to 'certain' cancer and infections. In addition specialists at St George's, University of London found that the most effective way to treat cancer tumors was certain marijuana compounds alongside radiotherapy treatment.
"Tobacco is not really regulated by the government because tobacco companies put thousands of chemicals in cigarettes."
This statement is wrong since there are significant government regulations on tobacco.
"USA has one of the highest drug usage rates even though they criminalize drugs more than any place in the world. Marijuana usage in the Netherlands for example is way lower than in USA."
The US isn't the Netherlands. Lower drug rates aren't the only thing Netherland has lower than the US, they also have a 5 times lower homicide rate. Clearly the two have a lot more different than just a drug policy causing these differences.
"Clearly marijuana can't ruin someone's life if many geniuses have used marijuana casually. People like Usian Bolt, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Shakespeare and some other people have all used pot ocassionally. "
This statement makes a great error, it assumes that if some people use it and don't have their lives ruined then it can't ruin lives. That I like me saying that Person A, B and C, survived getting shot in the head, so getting shot in the head can't kill you.
"While there may be downsides to marijuana, remember there are also health benefits. It... enhance creativity..."
Research by Leiden psychologists Lorenza Colzato and Mikael Kowal shows that the opposite is true.
That study about marijuana causing mania is not clear. It mentioned individuals whom experienced symptoms and talked about mania. However, it never specified how often the individuals use marijuana. The people whom suffer from that mental condition could easily be people whom binge on marijuana. Like I mentioned before, there is a clear difference between moderate and heavy consumption of marijuana. People can use marijuana in moderation and be fine.
Many people use alcohol and are fine. Alcohol is a socially acceptable drug to many, but that drug is more harmful than marijuana. A mroe recent study actually suggests marijuana's risks are exaggerated. (1) Like many other studies, it also mentioned that alcohol is in fact far worse than marijuana. Certainly, a drug far safer than alcohol must cause lots of damage to the brain.
Alcohol "increases the chance" of using harder drugs more than marijuana does. (1) However, the gateway drug theory is still flawed. Drug addicts may start with milder drugs like Marijuana. Certainly nobody would just go shoot up heroin like that, they might want to experiment with milder drugs at first. I also included a source (2) which helps to disprove the gateway drug theory.
One study claiming marijuana causes cancer when others claim it cures cancer doesn't mean it causes cancer. I have included a link which shows 43 studies that prove cannabis cures cancer. (1) While tumors may shrink faster under cannabis and radio-therpay combined, remember radiation therpay has severe side effects. Cannabis alone can fight cancer pretty well, it's side effects are lesser than radiation-therapy.
Tobacco regulation really doesn't seem to be working that well. Cigarettes have thousands of chemicals in them, who even knows how much is actually tobacco? (1) Cannabis should be regulated well to make sure it isn't cut up with other drugs. Black market marijuana may not be that pure and could even be laced with meth.
Correlation vs Causation
Marijuana use has actually been increasing in USA despite the increased drug control spending. Marijuana usage is especially increasing among high-school students. (1)
Marijuana should be legalized because so many people already use it. Black market marijuana is easy to obtain and many people are aware of this. Legalizing it will not have much of an impact among usage. Legalizing it like I said before means we can regulate it. Black market goods can be more risky in general for anything because there's no laws preventing scamming or whatever.
The study on mania clearly research whether the correlation was caused by people with mania symptoms or if marijuana caused the symptoms. Quote-Previously it has been unclear whether cannabis use predates manic episodes. We wanted to answer two questions -- does cannabis use lead to increased occurrence of mania symptoms or manic episodes in individuals with pre-existing bipolar disorder? But also, does cannabis use increase the risk of onset of mania symptoms in those without pre-existing bipolar disorder?"-end quote. (1)
Then they said the results of the research, Quote-The observed tendency for cannabis use to precede or coincide with rather than follow mania symptoms, and the more specific association between cannabis use and new onset manic symptoms, suggests potential causal influences from cannabis use to the development of mania. It is a significant link.-end quote.(1)
My opponents link that my opponent claims helps disproves marijuana as a gateway drug, the site itself claims that the research doesn't disprove the gateway drug theory. Quote-The research does not disprove the gateway theory; it merely shows that another explanation is plausible.-end quote. (2)
The research I showed in a much more recent study (2013 opposed to my opponent's 2002) and showed that marijuana increases impulsive behavior, this impulsive behavior can cause users to move to harder drugs.
Quote-It had previously been argued that this increased impulsivity after cannabis administration was only experienced by occasional users, but that regular users were no longer affected in this way. Published in the British Journal of Pharmacology, the results provide evidence for how drug use may trigger addictive behaviours.-end quote. (3)
In the study I gave about marijuana can cause cancer was a study done in reaction to it already being known that marijuana can increase the likeliness of certain types of cancer and infection. Quote-An international team of immunologists studying the effects of cannabis have discovered how smoking marijuana can trigger a suppression of the body's immune functions. The research, published in the European Journal of Immunology, reveals why cannabis users are more susceptible to certain types of cancers and infections.- end quote.
Claiming that marijuana can not cause some cancers and infections complete ignores not only previous studies but it also ignores the research that says how it causes these problems.
My opponent then provides a highly bias link that claims that these 43 studies show that marijuana cures cancer. If one were to go to the actual studies, they would notice two things. One, none of these studies say the cancer is cured, it is only reduced. Two, the studies don't deal with marijuana itself but specific extracted compounds from it. The reason why this matters is that the benefits of individual compounds does not justify the use of the whole plant which has harms.
Correlation vs Causation
My opponent claims that marijuana legalization doesn't increase marijuana usage. Yet marijuana usage spikes up in any state it is legalized.
Quote-The average reported past month marijuana use for young adults (ages 18 "" 25)
in Colorado has increased from 21.43 percent in 2006 to 27.26 percent in 2011.
That is a 27 percent increase.-end quote.(4)
Quote-The average reported past month marijuana use for adults (ages 26 ) in Colorado
has increased from 5.32 percent in 2008 to 8.19 percent in 2011. That is a 54
percent increase.-end quote (4)
Marijuana legalization has even had a slight increase in children use.
Quote- In academic school years 2008 "" 2010, an average of 20.75 percent of
Adams County high school students surveyed indicated they were current
marijuana users (at least once in the last 30 days). That number increased
39 percent during academic years 2010 "" 2012 to 28.85 percent.-end quote.(4)
Quote- In the academic school years 2008 "" 2010, an average of 5.65 percent of
Adams County middle school students surveyed indicated they were
current marijuana users (at least once in the last 30 days). That number
increased 50 percent during academic years 2010 "" 2012 to 8.5 percent.-end quote(4)
Clearly legalization increase marijuana use dramatically compared to when it wasn't legal.
While there may be a link, it's not certain that everybody suddenly gets mania from using cannabis. Cannabis also has a lot of positive effects. Like I mentioned before, it never mentioned anything about how often the people use cannabis. This is also just one study, what's considered true in science and confirmed is when multiple studies point toward that direction. Con is just quoting the study and 90% of their argument is a bunch of quotes and disorganized.
Con has failed to prove why marijuana should be illegalized and alcohol should be legal. None the less, the gateway drug theory is flawed. Researchers are in fact using marijuana to help people like crack addicts to cut down on their use of crack cocaine. There are millions of people whom has used marijuana in their life, yet why aren't there so many meth and heroin users? The idea that using cannabis leads to harder drugs is called the "Gateway theory" which is a trick used by anti-drug war propaganda artists. (1)
Your source for marijuana causing impulsive behavior included cocaine in the study. Cocaine is known to have some of these effects and cannabis isn't.
Just because there is one study that may say something wouldn't mean it's true if other studies go against it. While the link I included may be a little biased, it included a lot of studies to prove of hemp's anti-tumoural effect. They actually said that cannabis can fight cancer, it never said it only reduces it's effects like con is saying. The study is talking about compounds, that is true but that doesn't mean herbal cannabis can't cure cancer. Herbal cannabis is cheaper and more effective than synthetic extracted compounds. Another study also shows that it can in fact stop the spread of cancer by disabling a gene linked to cancer spread. This would mean the cancer cells would eventually die out.
Cannabis can also help with other things, It can cure pain, and also help with epilepsy.
Correlation vs Causation
It is very easy for the youth to get marijuana thanks to the growing and common black market for marijuana. And the increasing use of marijuana if anything is another reason to legalize it. It's been illegal and the usage rate is still growing. Also, the rates of increase is only by a small percentage. It really isn't valid to arrest a very small portion of marijuana users to try to get people to stop. It is also costing money and decreasing economic growth.
You can talk about the negatives of marijuana all you want but there are positive effects as well. It can lower obesity, anxiety and depression. It can help with opiate addiction and etc.
http://www.auburn.edu... that is so out dated that majority that the info in it is presently known to be false. My opponent then criticizes my source for marijuana's impulsiveness for also studying cocaine. If my opponent would have read through the source he would have realized that cocaine and marijuana were tested separately for impulsiveness.
My opponent has made overgeneralizations of marijuana's anti-cancer effect. He fails to realize that the studies are not conflicting. Marijuana is shown by actual research that it can worsen certain cancers, despite having compounds that help with other cancers. Not only has there been countless studies showing that, but science has even found the mechanic for how marijuana can worsen cancer and increase likeliness of infection. Such overgeneralizations of marijuana's benefits promoted by pro-marijuana campaigns often can cause people to self medicate in situations where it is harmful and sometimes even lethal to do so. (Oh woops, the marijuana worsen cancer in your situation, sorry that we didn't mention that marijuana worsens certain cancers. Oh woops, you got an infection because you were self medicating on marijuana, sorry that we didn't mention that marijuana is an immunosuppressant, in fact we just dismissed that as drug war propaganda.) How about instead of giving overgeneralizations of marijuana, you recommend people to consult with their doctor first so they don't do something that may end up harming or even killing them.
My opponent claims that "the increasing use of marijuana if anything is another reason to legalize it." By this logic, if something like cocaine or heroin had increasing use among youth then it would be a "reason to legalize it". The logic that an increasing use among youth is reason to legalize it, is flawed on its most fundamental level. But there is one thing I agree with my opponent on, arresting users has negative effects. Instead I prefer higher fines and less jail time. The higher fines are a stronger deterrent to marijuana use than arrest and it doesn't increase the prison population.
My opponent source http://mic.com... doesn't mention anything about lower obesity. As for everything else mentioned in the source, these are merely reason for medical marijuana, and as such have no reason for recreational marijuana use. I would like to make it clear that I am not against medicines that use marijuana, I merely believe it should only be prescribed by a doctor since marijuana is harmful. Something being harmful doesn't mean it doesn't have a medical use, horrible poisons and venoms are being used currently to make drugs and fight cancer, yet this doesn't justify people eating poison or injecting themselves with venom. My opponent has failed to give any good reasons why marijuana should be legalized recreationally.
In conclusion, marijuana has many medical properties that should be research and used in medicine. This medical marijuana use however does not justify recreational use. It is proven in the states like Colorado that legalization of marijuana increases use, and with that increase there will be more people harmed by marijuana. This harm is very real and more is learned about it each day. This harm is proven by science and affects people who use it. This harm outweighs any benefits of legalization, and is the primary reason why I don't support the pro-marijuana campaign. I feel that I have proved my reasoning and that there are real reasons to be against recreation marijuana.
With that I conclude this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Kreakin 2 years ago
|Who won the debate:||-|
Reasons for voting decision: An interesting quick fire debate. Whilst Pro raised some interesting points some of his other points are plainly not sensible. Saying changing an otherwise normal persons brain structure with a drug may not be a bad thing is just bizarre. Arguing Cannabis is about as addictive as going to parties isn't quantifyable either. Cannabis can trigger psychosis and is addictive as Con pointed out. Con provided referenced sources, Cons spelling and grammar was also better.
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