The Instigator
jingzhezhang
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points
The Contender
luk443
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Capitalism in practice does more harm than good

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/25/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,529 times Debate No: 12414
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (8)
Votes (5)

 

jingzhezhang

Con

I give many thanks to the one that accepts my debate.

I will start my argument.

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The advantages of capitalism are:

1. It increases the overall wealth of a society. The economic well-being of a populace is best measured by how many people are lifted above mere subsistence. Capitalism is best at doing that. The most economically prosperous economies, except for a few oil-rich authoritarian regimes and similar special situations, are the countries that have capitalist economies.

Data on per capita income http://www.success-and-culture.net...... for 208 counties around the world reveals a strong correlation between how capitalist he country's economy is and how prosperous the country. The top 25 in income are Luxembourg, Bermuda, United States, Norway, Liechtenstein, Channel Islands,Switzerland, Denmark, Ireland, Iceland, Canada, Austria, San Mariano, Cayman Islands, Belgium, Hong Kong, Japan, Netherlands, Monaco, Australia, United Kingdom, France, Germany, Finland, and Italy. There are some anomalies on the list; Monaco is a monarchy. Nonetheless, overall it is clear that the capitalist countries are the most prosperous. The socialist states and dictatorships are all well down on the list.

Lest this be attributed to coincidence or an accident of history, we have many good test cases for the economic effect of capitalism. East Germany and West Germany were comparable in all respects except for the economic system. West Germany prospered and East Germany did not.

North Korea can be compared to South Korea. "Four decades ago, GDP per capita was comparable with levels in the poorer countries of Africa and Asia. In 2004, South Korea joined the trillion dollar club of world economies, and currently is among the world's twenty largest economies." https://www.cia.gov...... "North Korea, one of the world's most centrally directed and least open economies, faces chronic economic problems. Industrial capital stock is nearly beyond repair as a result of years of underinvestment and shortages of spare parts. ... Large-scale international food aid deliveries have allowed the people of North Korea to escape widespread starvation since famine threatened in 1995, but the population continues to suffer from prolonged malnutrition and poor living conditions." https://www.cia.gov...... The GDP of South Korea is abut 35 times that of North Korea. [op. cit.]

India suffered for many years under democratic socialism, continually facing famine. Adopting a large measure of capitalism has dramatically improved the economy. China faced famine under communism, but has dramatically improved its economy as it has increasing moved towards free market economics. The pattern of prosperity under capitalism and poverty other systems has been repeated worldwide. Joshua Muravchik's book "Heaven on Earth: The Rise and Fall of Socialism" carefully documents the failure of non-capitalist systems during the 20th century. http://www.amazon.com......

Note in this context that disparity of wealth is not a disadvantage at all. The way to easily achieve equality of wealth is to reduce nearly everyone to an income near zero, as in North Korea and some African nations. Equality should never be a goal. We should seek to raise the overall standard of living.

2. Capitalism does not have to be "pure" to work well, which is a strong advantage. Each increment of capitalism produces an increase in prosperity. South Korea and Taiwan prospered for many years with a capitalist economic system and authoritarian social rule. China is now in that state of mixed authoritarianism and free markets. The European "social democracies" tried public control of capital, but have largely backed off in favor of privatization. They impose a very heavy tax burden, but still do far better than they did under socialism.

The advantage is that capitalism actually works in practice. Socialists have to rationalize the abject failures of the dozens of attempts at socialism, democratic and undemocratic, that failed in the 20th century. The rationalization is that failure came as a result of not implementing some theoretically pure form of the system. Capitalism does not require such excuses. It works well in any dose, although better in large doses. North Korea is introducing capitalist-style "farmer's markets" to ease their chronic food shortages. http://www.ieas.or.kr......

3. Capitalism tends to put the most qualified people in charge, and it gets rid of the ones that do not measure up. The capitalist system rewards the merit of achieving economic efficiency. All other systems have, in practice, power and wealth determined by political obedience or family connections. North Korea has an upper class, determined by power transfer from father to son an by loyalty to the current dictator. China has an upper class determined by loyalty to the Communist Party. The ruling classes in North Korea and China, and they make a mess of it. China is moving away from centralized planning and control, with the result of greater prosperity. Capitalism has the advantage of justly rewarding economic competence.

In a capitalist society, wealth can be passed to future generations, either directly by inheritance or indirectly by bestowing better educational and other opportunities. That may seem unfair, but that mechanism is surprisingly ineffective. We know of famous rich families like the Rockefeller's whose wealth persists for generations, but overall the effect is gone in the United States after two generations. The data are discussed at length in the book "The Bell Curve" by Charles Murray, concluding "intelligence level (cognitive class) is a better predictor of poverty than parents' socioeconomic class" http://en.wikipedia.org...... There is controversy over whether American society provides more or less economic mobility than other capitalist societies, but clearly the advantage is with capitalist societies in general.

Capitalism allows people to succeed according to their ability.

4. Owning private property is a basic human right. Taking private property is theft, and theft is immoral. Article 17 of the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights states, "(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property." http://www.un.org...... Con's definition of capitalism is "an economic system based on private ownership of capital." Not allowing private capital violates (1) and the state seizing capital violates (2). Therefore, an advantage of capitalism is that it honors and respects human rights. This is in sharp contradistinction to socialism, communism, monarchy, and despotism.

5. We previously demonstrated that capitalism can provide relative economic prosperity even when implemented under authoritarian rule. The examples included early South Korea and Taiwan, and present-day China. In practice, capitalism has the advantage of undermining authoritarian rule. That was demonstrated by the transitioning of South Korea and Taiwan to democracy. Capitalism is at work undermining the authoritarian rule of Russia and China. This comes about in large part because people who enjoy economic freedom come to desire other human right. Also, prosperity brought by capitalism tends to ad to better communications and more cultural exchange, so people better appreciate the importance of other human rights.

6. There is a joke, "Gravity is not just a good idea, it is THE LAW." The same applies to capitalism, including the time value of money and the laws of supply and demand. Like gravity, they are ignored only at great peril. The advantage of capitalism is that it conforms to the reality of inviolable economic laws.
luk443

Pro

to analyze capitalism you cannot look to the utilitarian mindset of body count or economic gain because we do not know how many people are killed and subjegated to capitalism and how many people die because of capitalism every day because it makes it's victims anonymous like we cannot know how many people died on the slave ships....
Further, the ultimate evolution of capitalism is the reduction of life to raw materials. This reduction has devastating consequences – the penetration of the law of value into the totality of social existence makes mass extermination inevitable as all life that is no longer deemed productive must be eliminated to ensure the smooth functionality of the capitalist machine – the instrumental nationality seeks to justify extermination of all life. This will be the ultimate goal of capitalism which is that we will all have value when we are of no use they throw us out of the system the government makes it seem better by giving social security but it is all still the same thing There is no value to life within a capitalist subjectivity, it is the Zero Point to the Holocaust embedded and permeated into every social field of our existence. All of his arguments are made by capitalism saying that they provide benifts but this is all just blessings in disguise such as global warming caused by capitalism turned into a profit by making solar and green tech
also the standard of living arg is irrelevant because millions are killed every year because not enough food also we have never had true communism because true communism exists when there is no government to control because that would be a form of class... also we should suspend temporality you should ignore the excuse that the present system manufactures to stop its own destruction. They can't find an objective ethical imperative within which to evaluate their impacts. We need to act as if utopia is already here if it is its own ontological truth... meaning we are able to conceptualize our own future and not be held down to the qualitative differences this will turn all rev no work args and will turn the idea that this will never happen because it is that mentality that makes it not good

We cannot wait for the right moment for the rev we must do it now in order to touch the real through t symbolic by striking at ourselves what is most important and use they system against itself to destroy it cap is bad and anyone who says otherwise has only lived in a rich 1st world country with internet and never seen de beer's diamond mines
Debate Round No. 1
jingzhezhang

Con

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate. And I would like to welcome him to this site and this debate.

This is already the last round and my opponent has not yet proved that capitalism in practice is bad or give his "argument" a source. The only thing he says about my points is that it's blessings in disguise, but again he has no proof that it is so. His argument is really covered in my points.

I await a rebut from my opponent and some sources.

Thank you.

Please vote for CON, for I have proved that capitalism in practice has more benefits than harm.
luk443

Pro

luk443 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
@leisuredebater, What side of the debate do you want and who do you want to challenge you?
Posted by leisuredebater 7 years ago
leisuredebater
This is an interesting topic. Challenge me and let's debate it over.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
Cons arguments are absolutely unimpeachable. I should know, I wrote them first, in http://www.debate.org... I don't object; it's Con's job in his debate to defend the arguments.

Capitalism is an economic system, so it can function in the face of authoritarian social rule, as in Taiwan under Chang and in post-war South Korea. But people who experience economic freed tend to end up wanting political freedom as well. Taiwan and S Korea eventually became democracies.
Posted by jingzhezhang 7 years ago
jingzhezhang
he forfeited.....

vote for me.... :)
Posted by vbaculum 7 years ago
vbaculum
luk443/Pro, what's with the bad grammar? Makes it a pain to read.
Posted by Bix 7 years ago
Bix
I agree with Korashk, you are arguing the con. More importantly, you make several contradictions. First you argue that capitalism is a remedy to authoritarianism but then say it is compatible with authoritarianism...
Posted by jingzhezhang 7 years ago
jingzhezhang
thanks...
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
You need to change the resolution or your side. You're arguing the Con right now.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by ArtTheWino 7 years ago
ArtTheWino
jingzhezhangluk443Tied
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Vote Placed by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
jingzhezhangluk443Tied
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Vote Placed by InsertNameHere 7 years ago
InsertNameHere
jingzhezhangluk443Tied
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Vote Placed by sherlockmethod 7 years ago
sherlockmethod
jingzhezhangluk443Tied
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Vote Placed by Strikeeagle84015 7 years ago
Strikeeagle84015
jingzhezhangluk443Tied
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